coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 28 Oct 2006 18:14:35
From: phreaddy
Subject: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
portafilter and triple basket?





 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 13:19:22
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller

Randy G. wrote:
> "Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> When it comes to sales, I make absolutely nothing from any sales from
> >> any of the above. And there are two or three others which, because of
> >> the way they do business or treat people, I do not recommend.
> >>
> >> If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. If you have something to
> >> say, say it.
> >>>
> >
> >Hmm, perhaps sarcasm was not the most constructive way to make the
> >point, but I do think your frequent promotion of the MLG (?) kits is
> >excessive. I don't doubt that Mr Gallt's kits are excellent -- he
> >certainly appears to know the theory, has spent time on the R&D, and
> >(aside from the absent fuse perhaps) considered all aspects of the
> >product.
> >
> >I don't agree with others that you're plugging the product in return
> >for having received one FOC. It's fairly obvious that your motivation
> >has been to give daveb a bloody nose in your continuing personal spat
> >by actively promoting the competing MLG kits.
> >
> If you have not noticed, I (as well as many others) have long ago
> placed DB in my kill file and no longer comment on him, his work, or
> his services unless I am specifically mentioned and his message is
> re-posted by others. If you see my commenting on the MLG PID kit as
> something other than my recommending a product that I have personally
> tested and have found to be effective, then that is your problem. if
> you were fair and unbiased, you would be posting the same comments in
> response to anyone who promotes any product here on AC. But you do
> not, do you? Is it just me? Is it just the MLG kit? It would indicate
> that it is you who is reading something into my posts that is not
> actually there. Do you make your snide comments to others who have
> stated that they like the MLG kit? Not that I have seen.
>
> >Daveb's arrival ked a step change in the atmosphere at a.c which
> >made it a less pleasant place to be, and probably ultimately led to
> >some valued contributers departing. He has certainly deserved any
> >criticism and competition directed at him, but I don't feel comfortable
> >continuing to criticise him alone while stealth promotion is going on
> >elsewhere.
> >
> You are uncomfortable with "Stealth promotion"? Are you the one who
> will define the difference between what is "stealth promotion" and
> what is merely a recommendation by a satisfied user? So what is it,
> exactly, that is stealthy about me using a product, finding it useful,
> and telling others about it when the subject is brought up?
>
> >All that said, I usually enjoy reading your posts and i'm grateful for
> >the advice you gave when I was new to the scene. Long live a spam-free
> >a.c. Cheers,
> >
> SPAM, as colloquially defined and applied in this case, would seem to
> me to be a commercial announcement or advertisement of some sort that
> was not solicited or requested, and to which the poster would benefit
> in some way, usually financially. There has only been one person doing
> that on any regular basis here on AC in the last 6 years that I have
> been here, and we both know who that is.
>
> If product reviews by users bothers you in some way then that is your
> problem to deal with. But when you question my ethics as a journalist
> who has reviewed a product (for which I received no other benefit than
> to get the PID kit to install and test) then I will react negatively
> as I have. Indeed, if you notice, my website has no ads, no banners,
> and makes me no money at all. I do it to share my enthusiasm and love
> of coffee with others, and possible to be able to review products for
> folks who can't afford to go out and buy every such device to find out
> if it really does what it says. If there is ever any hint at any
> conflict of interest, or any personal interest of any sort with a
> review I post it right at the beginning of the review- my Hottop
> review for example. And even so, I also have a review of the iRoast2
> which was quite positive and complimentary even though there was the
> possibility of a conflict of interest there.
>
> alt.coffee has been a great place to get opinions on products and
> services from actual users of those same as long as I have been here,
> and I see no reason that should ever change. It was how I happened
> upon Silvia with the assistance of k, the Rocky because of David
> (as I remember), the general philosophy of espresso because of
> Bogiesan, and other things and participants as well. I have been
> "paying it forward" ever since and will try to continue to do so.
>
> I look forward to your questioning of all future posts of mine and of
> other ac participants whenever they "promote" a product in some way
> here on ac. It should dramatically increase your posting frequency.
>
>
> Randy " ? " G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com

I started going through and answering all the points but I really can't
face it. All I can say is that I stand by what I wrote before. I just
wanted to help keep commercialism out of a.c as it is about the last
place on earth that's independant. I should have done the sensible
thing and stayed out of the whole mess but now i've stuck my neck out.
Anyway, it's clear from Danny's post who the real villain is, so looks
like my goose is cooked as far as this ng goes. Thanks to the folk who
kindly took the time to give me good advice over the last 3=BD years (in
this and a previous account), and good luck for the future.



  
Date: 03 Nov 2006 18:38:43
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Phil P wrote:

> I started going through and answering all the points but I really can't
> face it. All I can say is that I stand by what I wrote before. I just
> wanted to help keep commercialism out of a.c as it is about the last
> place on earth that's independant. I should have done the sensible
> thing and stayed out of the whole mess but now i've stuck my neck out.
> Anyway, it's clear from Danny's post who the real villain is, so looks
> like my goose is cooked as far as this ng goes. Thanks to the folk who
> kindly took the time to give me good advice over the last 3 years (in
> this and a previous account), and good luck for the future.
>

My post has nothing to do with your ethics, or anything you might have
to say about Randy. I posted regarding Jim, since he's never offered
to sell anything here and has (in his few posts to date) been
extremely helpful and unbiased, unlike the other poster referenced,
who has a bad attitude and attacked Jim (perhaps too strong a word,
but I can't think of the correct one at the mo). It would be too easy
(and a shame) to frighten off posters who have business-gained
technical expertise to offer here.

If you read the Archives you will find that I too have suggested,
politely, that Randy has occasionally recommended a product in a sort
of commercial, copyrighters way, after having reviewed (and received a
sample or two, I'd venture to suggest), right back to Hottop days.

I wouldn't leave this group on my account, but I'm sure you'll do
whatever you feel is right, anyway.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



   
Date: 03 Nov 2006 19:29:32
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:38:43 +0000, Danny
<danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:

>I wouldn't leave this group on my account,

In fact Danny is one of the reasons to stay in this group, IMO.


    
Date: 03 Nov 2006 19:46:15
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Steve wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:38:43 +0000, Danny
> <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I wouldn't leave this group on my account,
>
>
> In fact Danny is one of the reasons to stay in this group, IMO.

Bu**er - does that mean I'm obliged to sit in a field again? ;)

Thanks for the vote.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



     
Date: 03 Nov 2006 22:58:31
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:46:15 +0000, Danny
<danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:

>Bu**er - does that mean I'm obliged to sit in a field again? ;)

Yes it does, if I have a vote.

>
>Thanks for the vote.

Your welcome.



      
Date: 03 Nov 2006 23:06:57
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Steve <not@use.net > wrote in news:abink2do57chlomhamebuqvnhh0s3kgr7t@
4ax.com:

> On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:46:15 +0000, Danny
> <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
>>Bu**er - does that mean I'm obliged to sit in a field again? ;)
>
> Yes it does, if I have a vote.
>
>>
>>Thanks for the vote.
>
> Your welcome.
>
>

My vote is yes too. I always look forward to hearing from a man who's tops
in his field. ;)

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 21:30:17
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
"Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com > wrote in news:1162502362.137947.62010
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>
> I started going through and answering all the points but I really can't
> face it. All I can say is that I stand by what I wrote before. I just
> wanted to help keep commercialism out of a.c as it is about the last
> place on earth that's independant. I should have done the sensible
> thing and stayed out of the whole mess but now i've stuck my neck out.
> Anyway, it's clear from Danny's post who the real villain is, so looks
> like my goose is cooked as far as this ng goes. Thanks to the folk who
> kindly took the time to give me good advice over the last 3 years (in
> this and a previous account), and good luck for the future.
>
>

Awwwww! Usenet was never a safe haven for the thin skinned, but I feel so
bad for this guy I've got tears running down both legs. Wait a minute,
that's not tears? Oh crap, I was laughing so hard I pissed myself.

Robert (If you guys keep picking on me I'll tell my Mommy.) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 10:37:46
From: daveb
Subject: Re: usenet
Well put, Will.
regards,

Dave

Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Some of the "ah for the good old days" posts on this thread are getting
> a bit sententious. But what do I know, I'm just an AC noob.
>
> I've been a member of several lists for more than 15 years. Without
> exception, every time the flames burn a little bright, people start
> posting about the days of yore when everyone was sweet, loving, kind,
> gentle, and helpful. Then the newbies gradually become the oldbies
> and, before you know it, those who were complained about become the
> complainers.
>
> Folks, a certain amount of flaming is part and parcel of what we oldies
> persist in calling "usenet." It arises from the diverse mix of
> personalities, absent the self-selection that we practice in face to
> face contacts. It waxes and wanes. So the people who say "get over it
> or get out" are not being selfish, schoolyard bullies; they are
> speaking the plain truth. I do not think that there is a single group
> on the net that doesn't periodically erupt into flames, or one that
> lacks a few pathological personalities. Every group out here in the
> ether boasts its trashy self-promoters, put-down champions, chronically
> dissatisfied whiners, blithering idiots, and the omnipresent Olde
> Guarde who know everything about everything and are Not To Be Differed
> With.
>
> This group is actually a lot gentler than many others, as has been
> noted already. Try one of the religion groups if you want to see just
> how hot the flames can be. Health hath no fury like a theologian
> scorned.
>
> We're not doin' so bad.



 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 09:21:17
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller

Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Health hath no fury like a theologian
> scorned.

Errrrr...make that hell



 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 09:19:06
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Some of the "ah for the good old days" posts on this thread are getting
a bit sententious. But what do I know, I'm just an AC noob.

I've been a member of several lists for more than 15 years. Without
exception, every time the flames burn a little bright, people start
posting about the days of yore when everyone was sweet, loving, kind,
gentle, and helpful. Then the newbies gradually become the oldbies
and, before you know it, those who were complained about become the
complainers.

Folks, a certain amount of flaming is part and parcel of what we oldies
persist in calling "usenet." It arises from the diverse mix of
personalities, absent the self-selection that we practice in face to
face contacts. It waxes and wanes. So the people who say "get over it
or get out" are not being selfish, schoolyard bullies; they are
speaking the plain truth. I do not think that there is a single group
on the net that doesn't periodically erupt into flames, or one that
lacks a few pathological personalities. Every group out here in the
ether boasts its trashy self-promoters, put-down champions, chronically
dissatisfied whiners, blithering idiots, and the omnipresent Olde
Guarde who know everything about everything and are Not To Be Differed
With.

This group is actually a lot gentler than many others, as has been
noted already. Try one of the religion groups if you want to see just
how hot the flames can be. Health hath no fury like a theologian
scorned.

We're not doin' so bad.



  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 12:46:32
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Some of the "ah for the good old days" posts on this thread are getting
> a bit sententious. But what do I know, I'm just an AC noob.
<snip >
> We're not doin' so bad.

Well said, and right on.

--
St. John
On Usenet since '87


 
Date: 01 Nov 2006 16:03:28
From: ramboorider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
On Nov 1, 7:50 am, "Phil P" <charneyb...@yahoo.com > wrote:

> I don't agree with others that you're plugging the product in return
> for having received one FOC. It's fairly obvious that your motivation
> has been to give daveb a bloody nose in your continuing personal spat
> by actively promoting the competing MLG kits. I have to say I think Mr
> Gallt's presence here is also priily to promote his products; albeit
> in a more subtle manner than does db.

I'm a newbie/lurker here and have followed some of the spats over
"who's better, Jim G or Dave B?" with a bit of amusement. Before I ever
found Alt.Coffee, I did a bit of research, ebay searches, etc and found
that BOTH Jime and Dave had excellent reputations among those who'd
done business with them. Based on this, I'd have no qualms at all about
doing business with either of 'em. Then I started checking out
alt.coffee and felt like I'd stumbled into a brawl.

I don't see Jime and Dave as even competing because they DON'T OFFER
THE SAME THING. Yeah, they both get you a PID setup. But it only took
about a minute to figure our that if I wanted to install it myself, I'd
go to Jim and if I didn't, I'd go to Dave. I'm sure there are some
people who aren't sure whether they should attempt the mod themselves
or not and so I guess there's a small amount of competition between Jim
and Dave for this group, but I suspect most of us have a pretty good
idea whether we're comfortable with the idea of modifying a piece of
equipment or whether we'd rather have it done for us.

So why all of the controversy? They both offer a great product/service
to slightly different kets. I've learned a good bit from both of
them. And I've learned a good bit from Randy's site as well. There's so
much good information available from the bulk of you on this board -
I'd like to thank almost ALL of you for greatly assisting my education
about espresso and the technology and techniques behind it. I just
think the squabbling is pretty unnecessary and unproductive. But, hey,
I'm just an observer. And clearly not as caffinated as some of you :)

-Ray



  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 04:45:50
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
ramboorider@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm a newbie/lurker here and have followed some of the spats over
> "who's better, Jim G or Dave B?" with a bit of amusement. Before I ever
> found Alt.Coffee, I did a bit of research, ebay searches, etc and found
> that BOTH Jime and Dave had excellent reputations among those who'd
> done business with them. Based on this, I'd have no qualms at all about
> doing business with either of 'em. Then I started checking out
> alt.coffee and felt like I'd stumbled into a brawl.

Unless you take the trouble to Google the archive you won't realise
that Jim has only posted here a few times, and only in response to
queries, whereas Dave has posted many, many times, using many aliases.
The "brawl" is one-sided, if at all - Dave feels the need to berate
what he sees as a competitor, but even then, there's not been much
said anyway.

Trouble is, whilst it's great to have someone post unbiased, quality
information in response to questions, they may regret the actions when
a minority slanders them or questions their motives.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 00:06:41
From: Espressopithecus (Java Man)
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
In article <1162425808.899938.30380@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
ramboorider@gmail.com says...
> But, hey,
> I'm just an observer. And clearly not as caffinated as some of you :)
>
It's not a caffeine problem.

Rick


 
Date: 01 Nov 2006 09:03:05
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Phil P wrote:
I have to say I think Mr
> Gallt's presence here is also priily to promote his products; albeit
> in a more subtle manner than does db. I don't think that is true of
> any other altie, even those who do include a commercial web address in
> their posts.


IIRC, I am the person who first discussed Jim's PID kits on this list.
I assure you that I paid full price for mine, am not related to Jim, do
not get free half-pounds of coffee from Randy, and am not in any way
compensated, indulged, flattered, or sucked-up-to in connection with
Jim's kits.

What I said then about Jim's kits has been amply demonstrated: Fair
price, accurate description, incredibly good hand-holding instructions,
high quality parts, excellent service and support. Now, Phil, if that
is, in your estimation, shilling for Jim, then I'm shilling for Jim...

I'm sure that Dave's installations are excellent. I've never heard
even his most bitter critics suggest otherwise. I didn't choose his
service because:
1. It would have been a PIA to pack up and ship Miss Silvia.
2. I have excellent skills of the sort needed to do the installation.
3. His website reminded a bit of a huckster selling dishes at the
county fair.

Say what you will, Dave's posts on AC also sound something like a
huckster selling dishes at the county fair. When he isn't being nasty,
obnoxious, and insulting, I mean. In contrast, Jim has never touted
his own kits on this list, though he has described them and answered
questions. He has also given generously of his advice and expertise to
people who had NOT purchased his product and had no intention of doing
so. There's a difference.

It is apparent from some posts that we have readers who should NOT try
to install a PID kit. Those folks would be well advised either to have
Dave do an install for them or pay up their life insurance.

For people with at least rudimentary electrical skills and an hour to
spare, Jim's kit may be an excellent alternative.

Pick the one you want; I doubt you'll be dissatisfied with either.

> Phil "what the hey is the keurig system?" P

The Keurig system is a line of single cup dispensing machines that brew
coffee and tea sealed in little foil and plastic cups ("K-Cups"). Many
blends of both coffee and tea are available from a variety of roasters.
Most people who compare them objectively find the Keurig superior to
any of the pod machines but YMMV. It does not, however, compare
favorably with freshly roasted, ground, and home brewed coffee.



 
Date: 01 Nov 2006 04:50:36
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller

Randy G. wrote:
> "Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On the other hand, when you deal with Jim you are dealing with a
> >> genuinely nice individual with extremely high personal standards who
> >> never shamelessly promotes himself or his products.
> >>
> >
> >He doesn't need to with Randy as his agent . . .
> >
> >alt.coffee.biz anyone ?
> >
>
> I do not at all appreciate that comment of yours. Over the years I
> have recommended many products and services I have personally used and
> found valuable. A few include:
>
> - Silvia and Rocky from Rancilio
> - The Keurig system
> - Bodum
> - Anything from Urnex
> - The MLG PID kit
> - Aerobie Aeropress
> - The Hottop
> - iRoast2
> - 1st Line
> - WLL
> - Riley's Coffee
> - Coffee Wholesalers
> ...and more.
>
> When it comes to sales, I make absolutely nothing from any sales from
> any of the above. And there are two or three others which, because of
> the way they do business or treat people, I do not recommend.
>
> If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. If you have something to
> say, say it.
>
> Randy "talk is cheap, so go ahead..." G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com


Hmm, perhaps sarcasm was not the most constructive way to make the
point, but I do think your frequent promotion of the MLG (?) kits is
excessive. I don't doubt that Mr Gallt's kits are excellent -- he
certainly appears to know the theory, has spent time on the R&D, and
(aside from the absent fuse perhaps) considered all aspects of the
product.

I don't agree with others that you're plugging the product in return
for having received one FOC. It's fairly obvious that your motivation
has been to give daveb a bloody nose in your continuing personal spat
by actively promoting the competing MLG kits. I have to say I think Mr
Gallt's presence here is also priily to promote his products; albeit
in a more subtle manner than does db. I don't think that is true of
any other altie, even those who do include a commercial web address in
their posts.

Daveb's arrival ked a step change in the atmosphere at a.c which
made it a less pleasant place to be, and probably ultimately led to
some valued contributers departing. He has certainly deserved any
criticism and competition directed at him, but I don't feel comfortable
continuing to criticise him alone while stealth promotion is going on
elsewhere.

All that said, I usually enjoy reading your posts and i'm grateful for
the advice you gave when I was new to the scene. Long live a spam-free
a.c. Cheers,

Phil "what the hey is the keurig system?" P



  
Date: 01 Nov 2006 22:44:37
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
"Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com > wrote:

>> When it comes to sales, I make absolutely nothing from any sales from
>> any of the above. And there are two or three others which, because of
>> the way they do business or treat people, I do not recommend.
>>
>> If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. If you have something to
>> say, say it.
>>>
>
>Hmm, perhaps sarcasm was not the most constructive way to make the
>point, but I do think your frequent promotion of the MLG (?) kits is
>excessive. I don't doubt that Mr Gallt's kits are excellent -- he
>certainly appears to know the theory, has spent time on the R&D, and
>(aside from the absent fuse perhaps) considered all aspects of the
>product.
>
>I don't agree with others that you're plugging the product in return
>for having received one FOC. It's fairly obvious that your motivation
>has been to give daveb a bloody nose in your continuing personal spat
>by actively promoting the competing MLG kits.
>
If you have not noticed, I (as well as many others) have long ago
placed DB in my kill file and no longer comment on him, his work, or
his services unless I am specifically mentioned and his message is
re-posted by others. If you see my commenting on the MLG PID kit as
something other than my recommending a product that I have personally
tested and have found to be effective, then that is your problem. if
you were fair and unbiased, you would be posting the same comments in
response to anyone who promotes any product here on AC. But you do
not, do you? Is it just me? Is it just the MLG kit? It would indicate
that it is you who is reading something into my posts that is not
actually there. Do you make your snide comments to others who have
stated that they like the MLG kit? Not that I have seen.

>Daveb's arrival ked a step change in the atmosphere at a.c which
>made it a less pleasant place to be, and probably ultimately led to
>some valued contributers departing. He has certainly deserved any
>criticism and competition directed at him, but I don't feel comfortable
>continuing to criticise him alone while stealth promotion is going on
>elsewhere.
>
You are uncomfortable with "Stealth promotion"? Are you the one who
will define the difference between what is "stealth promotion" and
what is merely a recommendation by a satisfied user? So what is it,
exactly, that is stealthy about me using a product, finding it useful,
and telling others about it when the subject is brought up?

>All that said, I usually enjoy reading your posts and i'm grateful for
>the advice you gave when I was new to the scene. Long live a spam-free
>a.c. Cheers,
>
SPAM, as colloquially defined and applied in this case, would seem to
me to be a commercial announcement or advertisement of some sort that
was not solicited or requested, and to which the poster would benefit
in some way, usually financially. There has only been one person doing
that on any regular basis here on AC in the last 6 years that I have
been here, and we both know who that is.

If product reviews by users bothers you in some way then that is your
problem to deal with. But when you question my ethics as a journalist
who has reviewed a product (for which I received no other benefit than
to get the PID kit to install and test) then I will react negatively
as I have. Indeed, if you notice, my website has no ads, no banners,
and makes me no money at all. I do it to share my enthusiasm and love
of coffee with others, and possible to be able to review products for
folks who can't afford to go out and buy every such device to find out
if it really does what it says. If there is ever any hint at any
conflict of interest, or any personal interest of any sort with a
review I post it right at the beginning of the review- my Hottop
review for example. And even so, I also have a review of the iRoast2
which was quite positive and complimentary even though there was the
possibility of a conflict of interest there.

alt.coffee has been a great place to get opinions on products and
services from actual users of those same as long as I have been here,
and I see no reason that should ever change. It was how I happened
upon Silvia with the assistance of k, the Rocky because of David
(as I remember), the general philosophy of espresso because of
Bogiesan, and other things and participants as well. I have been
"paying it forward" ever since and will try to continue to do so.

I look forward to your questioning of all future posts of mine and of
other ac participants whenever they "promote" a product in some way
here on ac. It should dramatically increase your posting frequency.


Randy " ? " G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




   
Date: 02 Nov 2006 08:20:04
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in
news:cc3jk2hhar71o48q8ab86jqk16i1qf6kve@4ax.com:

> "Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> When it comes to sales, I make absolutely nothing from any sales from
>>> any of the above. And there are two or three others which, because of
>>> the way they do business or treat people, I do not recommend.
>>>
>>> If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. If you have something to
>>> say, say it.
>>>>
>>
>>Hmm, perhaps sarcasm was not the most constructive way to make the
>>point, but I do think your frequent promotion of the MLG (?) kits is
>>excessive. I don't doubt that Mr Gallt's kits are excellent -- he
>>certainly appears to know the theory, has spent time on the R&D, and
>>(aside from the absent fuse perhaps) considered all aspects of the
>>product.
>>
>>I don't agree with others that you're plugging the product in return
>>for having received one FOC. It's fairly obvious that your motivation
>>has been to give daveb a bloody nose in your continuing personal spat
>>by actively promoting the competing MLG kits.
>>
--------------------
And just who are these 'others' who are questioning the ethics of Randy
G? Are they objective supporters of AC or cohorts & minions of the person
best known for promoting his own products in this newsgroup (Can't you
just see the sign in front of his shop, "Over 150 installed!" It probably
has Ray Kroc laughing in his grave!).
--------------------
>
> alt.coffee has been a great place to get opinions on products and
> services from actual users of those same as long as I have been here,
> and I see no reason that should ever change. It was how I happened
> upon Silvia with the assistance of k, the Rocky because of David
> (as I remember), the general philosophy of espresso because of
> Bogiesan, and other things and participants as well. I have been
> "paying it forward" ever since and will try to continue to do so.
>
> I look forward to your questioning of all future posts of mine and of
> other ac participants whenever they "promote" a product in some way
> here on ac. It should dramatically increase your posting frequency.
>
--------------------
I have read Randy G's posts & found them thoughtful & informative. And
while I have not always agreed with his conclusions, I have never had
reason to question his motivations for writing. On the other hand, there
is one regular here whose only purpose in frequenting this news group is
to sow discord & strife & plug his own pitiful product. So, whose ethics
would you most like your offspring to emulate?
--------------------

Robert (Tell 'em to go piss up a rope!) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:41:43
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller

Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> On the other hand, when you deal with Jim you are dealing with a
> genuinely nice individual with extremely high personal standards who
> never shamelessly promotes himself or his products.
>

He doesn't need to with Randy as his agent . . .

alt.coffee.biz anyone ?



  
Date: 31 Oct 2006 12:21:09
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
"Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>> On the other hand, when you deal with Jim you are dealing with a
>> genuinely nice individual with extremely high personal standards who
>> never shamelessly promotes himself or his products.
>>
>
>He doesn't need to with Randy as his agent . . .
>
>alt.coffee.biz anyone ?
>

I do not at all appreciate that comment of yours. Over the years I
have recommended many products and services I have personally used and
found valuable. A few include:

- Silvia and Rocky from Rancilio
- The Keurig system
- Bodum
- Anything from Urnex
- The MLG PID kit
- Aerobie Aeropress
- The Hottop
- iRoast2
- 1st Line
- WLL
- Riley's Coffee
- Coffee Wholesalers
...and more.

When it comes to sales, I make absolutely nothing from any sales from
any of the above. And there are two or three others which, because of
the way they do business or treat people, I do not recommend.

If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. If you have something to
say, say it.

Randy "talk is cheap, so go ahead..." G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




   
Date: 01 Nov 2006 01:22:42
From: RoqueJa
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller



The Geeman doth protest too much, methinks.

Fact is that you do take perks and freebies often enough to lead one
to suspect the integrity of your recommendations. And those are only
the ones you tell us about. Can you say "shameless shill", boys and
girls?







On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:21:09 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:

>"Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On the other hand, when you deal with Jim you are dealing with a
>>> genuinely nice individual with extremely high personal standards who
>>> never shamelessly promotes himself or his products.
>>>
>>
>>He doesn't need to with Randy as his agent . . .
>>
>>alt.coffee.biz anyone ?
>>
>
>I do not at all appreciate that comment of yours. Over the years I
>have recommended many products and services I have personally used and
>found valuable. A few include:
>
>- Silvia and Rocky from Rancilio
>- The Keurig system
>- Bodum
>- Anything from Urnex
>- The MLG PID kit
>- Aerobie Aeropress
>- The Hottop
>- iRoast2
>- 1st Line
>- WLL
>- Riley's Coffee
>- Coffee Wholesalers
>...and more.
>
>When it comes to sales, I make absolutely nothing from any sales from
>any of the above. And there are two or three others which, because of
>the way they do business or treat people, I do not recommend.
>
>If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. If you have something to
>say, say it.
>
> Randy "talk is cheap, so go ahead..." G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>



    
Date: 01 Nov 2006 21:07:22
From: Gary B
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:22:42 -0800, RoqueJa wrote:

[innuendo snipped]


RoqueJa,

This list would be a better place without your postings.


 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 12:20:52
From: daveb
Subject: ... time for a 'pid'
Well, thanks!

I am turning down the snarly BS. :-)


but, alas, not the self promotion. :-(

Dave
143.5
www.hitechespresso.com


Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> I do like you, Dave. Alas, you are too often a snarly SOB and you are
> nearly always a shameless self-promoter.



 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 12:08:34
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
I do like you, Dave. Alas, you are too often a snarly SOB and you are
nearly always a shameless self-promoter.



daveb wrote:
> Ah, now I thought you liked me!
>
> Dave
> 877 286 2833 -- free info -- shamelessly!



 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 10:50:00
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Ah, now I thought you liked me!

Dave
877 286 2833 -- free info -- shamelessly!



 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:51:58
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
On the other hand, when you deal with Jim you are dealing with a
genuinely nice individual with extremely high personal standards who
never shamelessly promotes himself or his products.


daveb wrote:
> Oh and BTW, that is a fully INSTALLED price, with All NEW parts --
> -- and includes a one YEAR parts and labor warranty --
> on the ENTIRE Silvia. --
> Dave
> www.hitechespresso.com
> 139.5
> 877 286 2877
> in the shop about a week.



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 17:58:15
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
"Omniryx@gmail.com" <Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in
news:1162230718.279553.213790@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

> On the other hand, when you deal with Jim you are dealing with a
> genuinely nice individual with extremely high personal standards who
> never shamelessly promotes himself or his products.
>
>
> daveb wrote:
>> Oh and BTW, that is a fully INSTALLED price, with All NEW parts --
>> -- and includes a one YEAR parts and labor warranty --
>> on the ENTIRE Silvia. --
>> Dave
>> www.hitechespresso.com
>> 139.5
>> 877 286 2877
>> in the shop about a week.
>
>

And don't forget to mention that Jim freely shares his expertise. Some
people hoard info & will only part with it for a price.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 10:17:49
From: John Frank
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
I bought the bottomless portafilter/triple basket, and I PID'd with the
Gallt kit... and there's no comparison in terms of benefits, the PID
makes a huge difference for every shot that you pull and the naked
portafilter is a nice learning device. I can recommend Jim Gallt's kit
from personal experience, it is easy to use and I learned a lot from
doing the installation myself.

Dave frequently makes comments that tick people off in alt.coffee, he
sometimes makes contributions that I value, and he sometimes gets into
wars with people that are a distraction from the business of enjoying
and learning about making better coffee. He also has extensive
enthusiastic eBay feedback and the fact that Chris from Chris Coffee
Jim Schulman do business with him, and that suggests that if you use
his services you will not be disappointed.

The bottom line is if you can afford to PID your machine you will have
a machine that will produce excellent espresso on a consistent basis.

John


daveb wrote:
> Oh and BTW, that is a fully INSTALLED price, with All NEW parts --
> -- and includes a one YEAR parts and labor warranty --
> on the ENTIRE Silvia. --
> Dave
> www.hitechespresso.com
> 139.5
> 877 286 2877
> in the shop about a week.



  
Date: 29 Oct 2006 22:15:10
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
On 29 Oct 2006 10:17:49 -0800, "John Frank" <johndfrank@excite.com >
wrote:

>
>The bottom line is if you can afford to PID your machine you will have
>a machine that will produce excellent espresso on a consistent basis.

IF :
- grinder burrs are in good shape
- coffee is fresh
- the handle end of the PF is competent


 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 09:11:48
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller
Oh and BTW, that is a fully INSTALLED price, with All NEW parts --
-- and includes a one YEAR parts and labor warranty --
on the ENTIRE Silvia. --
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
139.5
877 286 2877
in the shop about a week.



 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 07:14:50
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade -- with a real warranty
Oh and BTW, that is a fully INSTALLED price, with All NEW parts --
-- and includes a one YEAR parts and labor warranty --

on the ENTIRE Silvia. --

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
139.5
877 286 2877
in the shop about 1 week.

phreaddy wrote:
> I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
> higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
> portafilter and triple basket?



 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 07:09:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for a 'pid' controller maybe?
The 'pid' controller -- relaible repeatable temperatures YOU control.

Retrofitted to your silvia -- with 4 mounting options.

140 done.


Dave
www.hitechespresso.com

phreaddy wrote:
> I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
> higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
> portafilter and triple basket?



 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 22:27:57
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
"phreaddy" <phreaddy@gmail.com > wrote:

>I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
>higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
>portafilter and triple basket?
>
There is no doubt that a PID makes Silvia the equal of machines
costing far more- in many cases it makes them inferior. If you are not
serving milk-based drinks to parties of people (in other words, if you
have no need to rapidly make milk-based drinks one after another
repeatedly) a PID Silvia has the capability of making espresso of
excellent quality over a long period of time. It can also be argued
that the PID can actually extend the life of the machine as it keeps
it at a far more constant temperature saving the heating element the
wide temperature swings and long on times that the stock thermostat
causes.

The PID'd Silvia has been around for years, and I do not remember
reading a single report of anyone regretting the investment. If you
need a DIY kit, look into the MLG offerings as the instructions are
excellent- see the review on my website...


Randy "works for me!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 01:25:30
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?

"phreaddy" <phreaddy@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162084475.524091.255640@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
> higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
> portafilter and triple basket?
>

The PID for sure! And I'd like to recommend to you a great company that
specializes in supplying very professional fully pre assembled &
configured "Do it Yourself" PID kits in three forms, for the Rancilio
Miss Silvia espresso machine.
Please Contact: Jim Gallt @
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mlgpllc
http://www.pidkits.com/kits.html

I'm speaking from personal experience here, as I've just installed my
two line Watlow Series 965A PID kit on Sat June 24/06 & couldn't be
happier! {:-D
Please do yourself a big favor & check out these awesome kits!
Cheers!
Craig.



 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 20:42:49
From: goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
You look at it from the bottom during the shot.



 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 20:42:40
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?

Harry Moos wrote:
> I don't understand how a bottomless portafilter would "reveal uneven
> distribution of the grounds before the tamp." It's going to look the same
> from the top either way.

You have to bend over . . .

>
> "shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:5488k2t83bl2t8b87ni63aebdaddlvak9m@4ax.com...
> > On 28 Oct 2006 20:05:13 -0700, "goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com"
> > <goodpotatoes@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>It's more about the consistency/evenness of the tamp. The bottomless
> >>portafilter will allow you to see how even the tamp is, as well as make
> >>obvious any channeling.
> >
> > Maybe more importantly, it will reveal uneven distribution of the
> > grounds before the tamp. An even tamp on an unevenly distributed pile
> > of coffee will yield uneven densities.
> >
> > shall



 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 20:05:13
From: goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
It's more about the consistency/evenness of the tamp. The bottomless
portafilter will allow you to see how even the tamp is, as well as make
obvious any channeling. Other say that the shot is more pure, as the
espresso does not have to come in contact with any unnecessary metal or
surfaces. It's also less metal to warm up, and easier to clean.

Mine came with a triple basket, which was more than my regular
portafilter could handle.

On Oct 28, 8:01 pm, "Harry Moos" <har...@ruraltel.net > wrote:
> Since they have pretty well established that tamping pressure doesn't affect
> the espresso, how does a bottomless portafilter help the situation? Is it
> just by allowing a larger basket for more coffee?
>



  
Date: 29 Oct 2006 03:33:44
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
On 28 Oct 2006 20:05:13 -0700, "goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com"
<goodpotatoes@gmail.com > wrote:

>It's more about the consistency/evenness of the tamp. The bottomless
>portafilter will allow you to see how even the tamp is, as well as make
>obvious any channeling.

Maybe more importantly, it will reveal uneven distribution of the
grounds before the tamp. An even tamp on an unevenly distributed pile
of coffee will yield uneven densities.

shall


   
Date: 28 Oct 2006 22:39:57
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
I don't understand how a bottomless portafilter would "reveal uneven
distribution of the grounds before the tamp." It's going to look the same
from the top either way.

"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:5488k2t83bl2t8b87ni63aebdaddlvak9m@4ax.com...
> On 28 Oct 2006 20:05:13 -0700, "goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com"
> <goodpotatoes@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It's more about the consistency/evenness of the tamp. The bottomless
>>portafilter will allow you to see how even the tamp is, as well as make
>>obvious any channeling.
>
> Maybe more importantly, it will reveal uneven distribution of the
> grounds before the tamp. An even tamp on an unevenly distributed pile
> of coffee will yield uneven densities.
>
> shall




    
Date: 29 Oct 2006 08:06:40
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
Harry Moos wrote:
> I don't understand how a bottomless portafilter would "reveal uneven
> distribution of the grounds before the tamp." It's going to look the same
> from the top either way.

See the bottomless pf pics on my site below...


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



    
Date: 29 Oct 2006 06:15:14
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net >
wrote:

>I don't understand how a bottomless portafilter would "reveal uneven
>distribution of the grounds before the tamp." It's going to look the same
>from the top either way.

Chaneling.

shall


 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 22:01:01
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
Since they have pretty well established that tamping pressure doesn't affect
the espresso, how does a bottomless portafilter help the situation? Is it
just by allowing a larger basket for more coffee?

"phreaddy" <phreaddy@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162084475.524091.255640@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
> higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
> portafilter and triple basket?
>




 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 19:39:29
From: goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
Definitely a PID. You will never have to worry about temperature
surfing, and your shots will be more consistent. Having one will also
allow you to control the temperature when brewing different roasts.

A bottomless is nice to have, as it will reveal your tamping technique.

phreaddy wrote:
> I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
> higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
> portafilter and triple basket?



 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 18:34:49
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Rocky/Silvia combo ... time for an upgrade?
phreaddy wrote:
> I have a stock Rocky and Silvia. I'm looking for more consistent,
> higher quality shots. What should I do first? A PID or a bottomless
> portafilter and triple basket?

Adding a temperature controller is the single biggest improvement you
can make to silvia so that would be the best thing to do first.

Another mod people have done is to limit the brew pressure to about 9
bar from the 11+ that silvia historicaly came with, though any benefit
from this is not going to be as obvious, especially if your dosing +
tamping technique is already effective.