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Date: 08 Jan 2007 15:28:15
From: Guy Snape
Subject: Steam then brew?
I gather that Silvia can be a little slow in getting up to steam temp
after brewing. One solution to this that I've seen suggested is to steam
the milk first, then bleed the boiler a little (good way of warming the
cup?) to get it down to brew temp.

What do you all think?

- guy
--
Remove the obvious to reply.




 
Date: 11 Jan 2007 12:14:28
From: goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?

hfw wrote:
> I'll give it a try. It seems to me that the ready light comes back on
> very quickly the second time, but even the beginning of the second steam
> is nowhere as strong as the first.

My guess is that because you have steamed the first time, there is less
water volume in the boiler (say half) than you started with. This will
get to the same temperature more quickly, but it won't have the same
pressure.

If you refill your boiler in between steamings, this shouldn't happen -
though you will have to wait for the boiler to reheat.



  
Date: 11 Jan 2007 17:30:43
From: hfw
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Makes sense. So here's a really dumb question: how do I refill the
boiler? Press the coffee/water switch? Can I do that at steaming
temperature without hurting anything? (I've done it a couple of times by
accident and the resulting mini-explosion at the portofilter was a
little alarming)

--Heidi

goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com wrote:
> hfw wrote:
>> I'll give it a try. It seems to me that the ready light comes back on
>> very quickly the second time, but even the beginning of the second steam
>> is nowhere as strong as the first.
>
> My guess is that because you have steamed the first time, there is less
> water volume in the boiler (say half) than you started with. This will
> get to the same temperature more quickly, but it won't have the same
> pressure.
>
> If you refill your boiler in between steamings, this shouldn't happen -
> though you will have to wait for the boiler to reheat.
>


   
Date: 14 Jan 2007 04:36:57
From: Stuart Hudson
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
hfw wrote:
> Makes sense. So here's a really dumb question: how do I refill the
> boiler? Press the coffee/water switch? Can I do that at steaming
> temperature without hurting anything? (I've done it a couple of times by
> accident and the resulting mini-explosion at the portofilter was a
> little alarming)
>
> --Heidi
>
> goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com wrote:
>> hfw wrote:
>>> I'll give it a try. It seems to me that the ready light comes back on
>>> very quickly the second time, but even the beginning of the second steam
>>> is nowhere as strong as the first.
>>
>> My guess is that because you have steamed the first time, there is less
>> water volume in the boiler (say half) than you started with. This will
>> get to the same temperature more quickly, but it won't have the same
>> pressure.
>>
>> If you refill your boiler in between steamings, this shouldn't happen -
>> though you will have to wait for the boiler to reheat.
>>
Only half way through the replies but this I am sure is correct and my
procedure. The boiler is only small and steaming 6oz of milk uses a lot
of steam so refill the boiler. The small explosion through the screen
will do no harm at all and I always do this after steaming. The first
reason is to refill the boiler, the second reason is to blow the crap
off the screen, also if you open the steam valve halfway through
refilling the boiler and briefly switch back to steam you will blow hot
water and steam down the steam pipe and clear out any crap.

Stuart Hudson


   
Date: 11 Jan 2007 23:58:45
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
I don't think the steam explosion is bad. Leave the portafiler on to
prevent getting hurt. I actually think it helps get loose stuff off the
shower screen, too.

If it's too much of an explosion, open the steam valve -- to truly refill
the boiler, it helps to have the pump going while opening the steam valve
until water comes out the steam wand anyway.

C

"hfw" <nospam@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:50ns4lF1gn3viU1@mid.individual.net...
> Makes sense. So here's a really dumb question: how do I refill the boiler?
> Press the coffee/water switch? Can I do that at steaming temperature
> without hurting anything? (I've done it a couple of times by accident and
> the resulting mini-explosion at the portofilter was a little alarming)
>
> --Heidi
>
> goodpotatoes@ jee ma il.com wrote:
>> hfw wrote:
>>> I'll give it a try. It seems to me that the ready light comes back on
>>> very quickly the second time, but even the beginning of the second steam
>>> is nowhere as strong as the first.
>>
>> My guess is that because you have steamed the first time, there is less
>> water volume in the boiler (say half) than you started with. This will
>> get to the same temperature more quickly, but it won't have the same
>> pressure.
>>
>> If you refill your boiler in between steamings, this shouldn't happen -
>> though you will have to wait for the boiler to reheat.
>>




    
Date: 12 Jan 2007 12:21:17
From: hfw
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Thanks! I did something right this morning. After it came to
temperature, the first steam seemed wetter than usual, so I let it run
until the light went off. I think I turned the pump on for a few
seconds, turned the steam valve off, counted to seven (I was still half
asleep and "7" was the only thing that came through the haze). Opened
the steam valve again--dry, but no force. Closed it, counted to 7 again,
opened, and WOW! Amazing steam! And it seemed as if it could go forever
after doing the milk.

Now to see if I'm remembering the sequence correctly...

--Heidi

Rabbi Heidi Waldmann
Temple Beth Israel
1 Bowman Street
Plattsburgh, NY 12901
tel/fax 518.563.3343




Cordo wrote:
> I don't think the steam explosion is bad. Leave the portafiler on to
> prevent getting hurt. I actually think it helps get loose stuff off the
> shower screen, too.
>
> If it's too much of an explosion, open the steam valve -- to truly refill
> the boiler, it helps to have the pump going while opening the steam valve
> until water comes out the steam wand anyway.
>
> C


     
Date: 12 Jan 2007 10:53:07
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Glad to help, Rabbi. Once you see what that Gaggia can steam when you have
the heating element engaged at the right time (so it sounds like you ought
to count to 12 or 13?), things get easier.

Cordo (Ziegler student at the UJ)

"hfw" <nospam@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:50puceF1h83lgU1@mid.individual.net...
> Thanks! I did something right this morning. After it came to temperature,
> the first steam seemed wetter than usual, so I let it run until the light
> went off. I think I turned the pump on for a few seconds, turned the steam
> valve off, counted to seven (I was still half asleep and "7" was the only
> thing that came through the haze). Opened the steam valve again--dry, but
> no force. Closed it, counted to 7 again, opened, and WOW! Amazing steam!
> And it seemed as if it could go forever after doing the milk.
>
> Now to see if I'm remembering the sequence correctly...
>
> --Heidi
>
> Rabbi Heidi Waldmann
> Temple Beth Israel
> 1 Bowman Street
> Plattsburgh, NY 12901
> tel/fax 518.563.3343
>
>
>
>
> Cordo wrote:
>> I don't think the steam explosion is bad. Leave the portafiler on to
>> prevent getting hurt. I actually think it helps get loose stuff off the
>> shower screen, too.
>>
>> If it's too much of an explosion, open the steam valve -- to truly refill
>> the boiler, it helps to have the pump going while opening the steam valve
>> until water comes out the steam wand anyway.
>>
>> C




      
Date: 12 Jan 2007 19:12:23
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:53:07 -0800, "Cordo"
<cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com > wrote:

>Glad to help, Rabbi. Once you see what that Gaggia can steam when you have
>the heating element engaged at the right time (so it sounds like you ought
>to count to 12 or 13?), things get easier.
>
>Cordo (Ziegler student at the UJ)
>

Didn't I.B. Singer have a story about this? "The Rebbe, the Yeshiva
Bocher and the Latte."

shall


       
Date: 12 Jan 2007 11:32:37
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
The rabbi, the priest, and the minister all go into a coffee bar?

C

"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:g9nfq25ml3vrr7muudf9mkmlplnihilfu4@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:53:07 -0800, "Cordo"
> <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Glad to help, Rabbi. Once you see what that Gaggia can steam when you
>>have
>>the heating element engaged at the right time (so it sounds like you ought
>>to count to 12 or 13?), things get easier.
>>
>>Cordo (Ziegler student at the UJ)
>>
>
> Didn't I.B. Singer have a story about this? "The Rebbe, the Yeshiva
> Bocher and the Latte."
>
> shall




        
Date: 12 Jan 2007 15:22:56
From: Alice Faber
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
In article <eo8nod$igt$1@news.Stanford.EDU >,
"Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com > wrote:

> The rabbi, the priest, and the minister all go into a coffee bar?
>
> C
>
> "shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:g9nfq25ml3vrr7muudf9mkmlplnihilfu4@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:53:07 -0800, "Cordo"
> > <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Glad to help, Rabbi. Once you see what that Gaggia can steam when you
> >>have
> >>the heating element engaged at the right time (so it sounds like you ought
> >>to count to 12 or 13?), things get easier.
> >>
> >>Cordo (Ziegler student at the UJ)
> >>
> >
> > Didn't I.B. Singer have a story about this? "The Rebbe, the Yeshiva
> > Bocher and the Latte."
> >
> > shall

I was thinking more in terms of the dybbuk in the portafilter.

--
"and the snark alert level has reached "fuschia""
---zig zigalo homes in on the meat of the matter


         
Date: 13 Jan 2007 22:01:23
From: hfw
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Nu. Have we got a minyan?

shavua tov



Alice Faber wrote:
> In article <eo8nod$igt$1@news.Stanford.EDU>,
> "Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> The rabbi, the priest, and the minister all go into a coffee bar?
>>
>> C
>>
>> "shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:g9nfq25ml3vrr7muudf9mkmlplnihilfu4@4ax.com...
>>
>>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:53:07 -0800, "Cordo"
>>> <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Glad to help, Rabbi. Once you see what that Gaggia can steam when you
>>>> have
>>>> the heating element engaged at the right time (so it sounds like you ought
>>>> to count to 12 or 13?), things get easier.
>>>>
>>>> Cordo (Ziegler student at the UJ)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Didn't I.B. Singer have a story about this? "The Rebbe, the Yeshiva
>>> Bocher and the Latte."
>>>
>>> shall
>>>
>
> I was thinking more in terms of the dybbuk in the portafilter.
>
>


 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 04:01:33
From: ramboorider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
On Jan 9, 4:11 am, "Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveT...@RemoveThisyahoo.com >
wrote:

> The only reason I often steam first is that I like to have the maximum crema go right
> into the milk, rather than have the crema settle.

Just outa curiosity, why? When I drink a straight shot, I have to wait
for the crema to settle quite a bit or I just get a moustache full of
foam. So I take the same approach with milk drinks and let the crema
settle while I steam. My routine is to pull a double (which is almost
all crema when I stop the pour at about 2 oz), set it on the cup warmer
with a cover over it, and then steam the milk. By the time I'm ready to
pour the milk, there's still a layer of crema and sits up nicely for
whatever lame stabs at latte art I ever try (I specialize in broken
hearts - been a problem all my life), but it's settled to the point
that my shot is MOSTLY liquid by that time. If I poured the milk
immediately after pouring the shot, I wonder how it would interact with
all that crema - would the end result be the same? Would the coffee
ever settle out of the crema?

-Ray



 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 22:03:15
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Guy Snape <guy@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk > wrote:

>I gather that Silvia can be a little slow in getting up to steam temp
>after brewing. One solution to this that I've seen suggested is to steam
>the milk first, then bleed the boiler a little (good way of warming the
>cup?) to get it down to brew temp.
>

I always pull the shots first. Milk loses quite a bit of it's body if
allowed to sit for long after stretching. On the other hand, since you
are going to be adding all that milk to the espresso, the espresso
loses little by sitting on the counter for a few minutes, at least in
the way of taste in the milk. if you flip on the steam switch after
pulling two doubles, the machine will be up to temp about in the time
it takes to rinse the portafilter, bleed the boiler, get the milk from
the fridge, and pour the milk into the pitcher, then bleed once more.
A temperature readout for the boiler (like a cheap digital thermometer
or a PID setup) can help time things.


Randy
"it might be slow,
but the hissing to scare the cats
is worth waiting for"
G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 21:54:09
From: Tony B.
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?


On Jan 8, 9:28 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk >
wrote:
> I gather that Silvia can be a little slow in getting up to steam temp
> after brewing. One solution to this that I've seen suggested is to steam
> the milk first, then bleed the boiler a little (good way of warming the
> cup?) to get it down to brew temp.

For me, brewing first works better... I feel that letting the steamed
milk sit while I dose, distribute, and tamp to be worse than letting
the esprsso sit for an extra minute or two.

I brew an espresso right in my cappa cup, and still have a layer of
crema left when I'm ready to pour the milk after frothing... If I steam
first though, by the time I get my shots finished, my milk has cooled
more than I like, and the microfoam has settled/seperated leaving
"froth" at the top of the milk... this makes my already feeble attempts
at latte art look more like I'm plopping a large shmello into some
hot chocolate.

Using good beans, I'm able to keep crema long enough to be able to
steam after brewing.. and seems like less of a process that way to me
as well...

Tony B.



 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 16:08:48
From: JulesG
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?

Guy Snape wrote:
> I gather that Silvia can be a little slow in getting up to steam temp
> after brewing. One solution to this that I've seen suggested is to steam
> the milk first, then bleed the boiler a little (good way of warming the
> cup?) to get it down to brew temp.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> - guy
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.

Be careful when you bleed the boiler - you can easily burn yourself
with the steam.

I tried it both ways and I find it more efficient to make coffee first.
Also, the cappucino or latte tastes a lot better that way in my
opinion. The problem is if you have to do many in a row.... Silvia is
not the best at this task. Well, you can't have it all...



 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 14:55:02
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
I have a PID, and when I turn my machine on in the morning I turn it on
steam, so it gets to about 320 degrees, and then I turn off the steam
switch and leave it for a few minutes then I turn on the steam to cool
it down to 228 and then I brew and then turn it back to steam for milk.

This way I find it doesn't drop temp so much when I brew (cause its
more stable?) and then heats back up to steam temp quicker



 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 14:12:43
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
I do this on a Gaggia, for the reasons you mention, but the Silvia's boiler
is considerably larger.

C

"Guy Snape" <guy@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk > wrote in message
news:jqtoh.56097$n36.29401@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>I gather that Silvia can be a little slow in getting up to steam temp after
>brewing. One solution to this that I've seen suggested is to steam the milk
>first, then bleed the boiler a little (good way of warming the cup?) to get
>it down to brew temp.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> - guy
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.




  
Date: 09 Jan 2007 04:18:54
From: Stuart Hudson
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Cordo wrote:
> I do this on a Gaggia, for the reasons you mention, but the Silvia's boiler
> is considerably larger.

I would not have thought that 45-60 seconds to wait for steam was that
long. Gosh what busy lives we lead.

Stuart Hudson
happy gaggia owner. perhaps we should start a club to protest about
silvia oppression.


   
Date: 09 Jan 2007 23:48:19
From: hfw
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Stuart, I'm a generally happy Gaggia owner, too. But I would love some
pointers on steaming a second 6oz of milk. Do you have suggestions about
how long it should be between steamings? (It seems to me that when the
ready light comes on again it's really not back up to the steam
force/volume it had the first time). Any other tips?

--Heidi

Stuart Hudson wrote:
>
> happy gaggia owner. ...


    
Date: 10 Jan 2007 00:38:59
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
Have you tried not waiting until the ready light comes back on? You want to
wait until a few seconds before the ready light comes on, so you can steam
with the heating element firing.

C

"hfw" <nospam@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:50j9gbF1fu7obU1@mid.individual.net...
> Stuart, I'm a generally happy Gaggia owner, too. But I would love some
> pointers on steaming a second 6oz of milk. Do you have suggestions about
> how long it should be between steamings? (It seems to me that when the
> ready light comes on again it's really not back up to the steam
> force/volume it had the first time). Any other tips?
>
> --Heidi
>
> Stuart Hudson wrote:
>>
>> happy gaggia owner. ...




     
Date: 11 Jan 2007 08:38:21
From: hfw
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
I'll give it a try. It seems to me that the ready light comes back on
very quickly the second time, but even the beginning of the second steam
is nowhere as strong as the first.

Cordo wrote:
> Have you tried not waiting until the ready light comes back on? You
> want to wait until a few seconds before the ready light comes on, so
> you can steam with the heating element firing.
>
> C
>
> "hfw" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:50j9gbF1fu7obU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Stuart, I'm a generally happy Gaggia owner, too. But I would love
>> some pointers on steaming a second 6oz of milk. Do you have
>> suggestions about how long it should be between steamings? (It
>> seems to me that when the ready light comes on again it's really
>> not back up to the steam force/volume it had the first time). Any
>> other tips?
>>
>> --Heidi
>>
>> Stuart Hudson wrote:
>>> happy gaggia owner. ...
>
>


      
Date: 11 Jan 2007 11:59:42
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
My procedure is when steaming: wait for steam light, begin steaming, when
the ready light goes off, STOP STEAMING, count to 7, then start steaming
again, regardless of the light status.

C

"hfw" <nospam@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:50msu2F1g7v40U1@mid.individual.net...
> I'll give it a try. It seems to me that the ready light comes back on very
> quickly the second time, but even the beginning of the second steam is
> nowhere as strong as the first.
>
> Cordo wrote:
>> Have you tried not waiting until the ready light comes back on? You
>> want to wait until a few seconds before the ready light comes on, so
>> you can steam with the heating element firing.
>>
>> C
>>
>> "hfw" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:50j9gbF1fu7obU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Stuart, I'm a generally happy Gaggia owner, too. But I would love
>>> some pointers on steaming a second 6oz of milk. Do you have
>>> suggestions about how long it should be between steamings? (It
>>> seems to me that when the ready light comes on again it's really
>>> not back up to the steam force/volume it had the first time). Any
>>> other tips?
>>>
>>> --Heidi
>>>
>>> Stuart Hudson wrote:
>>>> happy gaggia owner. ...
>>



       
Date: 11 Jan 2007 17:31:31
From: hfw
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
I'll try it. Thanks!

--Heidi

Cordo wrote:
> My procedure is when steaming: wait for steam light, begin steaming, when
> the ready light goes off, STOP STEAMING, count to 7, then start steaming
> again, regardless of the light status.
>


   
Date: 09 Jan 2007 01:11:51
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?

> I would not have thought that 45-60 seconds to wait for steam was that
> long. Gosh what busy lives we lead.

I don't have to wait that long on the Gaggia, or so it seems. The only
reason I often steam first is that I like to have the maximum crema go right
into the milk, rather than have the crema settle.

Also, flushing the steam from the boiler (along with water) heats up the
portafilter and cups before I give the portafilter a wipe and load it with
coffee. Just a good heat up method.

C




 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 10:05:50
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 15:28:15 GMT, Guy Snape
<guy@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk > wrote:

>I gather that Silvia can be a little slow in getting up to steam temp
>after brewing. One solution to this that I've seen suggested is to steam
>the milk first, then bleed the boiler a little (good way of warming the
>cup?) to get it down to brew temp.

Some machines, like the FFs and the Elektra Nivola, are set up to do
this; steaming 2 cappas worth of milk depletes the boiler to the point
where it's ready to brew. On the Silvia, you'll have to flush down,
and that'll take practice.


 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 07:29:34
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Steam then brew?
IMO, brew then steam,

getting back to the (lower) brew temp accurately is NOT easy.
regards,
Dave