Still trying to hook up a pid

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Date: 20 Oct 2006 21:30:31
From: JC
Subject: Still trying to hook up a pid

Thought I would start a new column because the other one got so big.
Thanks to the group for the help.
I am on my way but missing something.
I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am

following Jim's
exact order for hookin everything up.
I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step

I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the

ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
powering on.
I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
heating element to the output side of the ssr one wire to t1 one wire
to l1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
again and no led light on the ssr.
I am wondering if there needs to be power to the output side of the ssr
as well as the heating element connected to it. It sounds like L1 is an
ac side and requires a hot power lead to complete the circuit. The 2
heating element wires would connect to the T1 load side.
Would this be right?
Any Ideas. Thanks Jason

Date: 21 Oct 2006 08:33:04
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Still trying to hook up a pid

"JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

>I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
>the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
>
>ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
>powering on.
>I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
>heating element to the output side of the ssr one wire to t1 one wire
>to l1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
>again and no led light on the ssr.
>

The original thermostat for the boiler has to be disconnected. If it
is a button style thermostat, the two wires need to be removed from
that original thermostat and it is these two wires that are connected
to the output side of the SSR. Remember that the entire PID system
(PID, SSR, and thermocouple) is nothing but an electronic replacement
for the brew thermostat.

Remember that the SSR is just a switch like a wall switch that turns
lights on and off, but instead of a toggle that you flip with your
hand, the PID turns it on and off with an electrical current. And if I
remember correctly, some SSRs will not trigger if they do not have a
load on them. I could be wrong on that one- it is from memory of
readings here on AC.

If you took both black wires off the heating element contacts it
reflects your lack of experience and/or knowledge of electrical things
and it is time to get some assistance before you kill yourself or
damage more electronics or the espresso machine. Not being rude; just
trying to protect you.

Randy "He who wires the right way lives to write another day" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com

Date: 21 Oct 2006 19:08:17
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Still trying to hook up a pid

I tried to say this the other day and was called a curmudgeon, not helpful
like that nice Jim, etc. There really has to be a point where you concede
that you are undertaking a task that is beyond your skills. Its double
dangerous if you are the brave type who just blindly start hooking up wires
despite having no idea what the hell you are doing - either you create a
dead short or nothing at all - so far our poster has done both. The next
step is for him to energize the frame of the machine.

I think his PC experience may have blinded him to the risks -inside a PC is
all 5 and 12 volt and everthing is keyed.

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:avekj2pose2b4nerabvk6n20ns8vr56r0h@4ax.com...
>
> If you took both black wires off the heating element contacts it
> reflects your lack of experience and/or knowledge of electrical things
> and it is time to get some assistance before you kill yourself or
> damage more electronics or the espresso machine. Not being rude; just
> trying to protect you.
>
>
> Randy "He who wires the right way lives to write another day" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>

Date: 21 Oct 2006 17:35:45
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Still trying to hook up a pid

Electricity is so ubiquitous in our society that we sometimes forget
its hazards. As a firefighter we had a training evening conducted by
the local utility company that was created for public safety folks. In
it we got to see images of folks who disregarded the hazards of
electricity- the photos were all post-mortem, unpleasant, and
unforgettable.

You're right, Jack. Inside a PC it is nearly impossible to wire
something wrong. In an espresso machine it can be quite difficult to
get things right without experience or knowledge. In a PC it can get
expensive if you screw something up. In an espresso machine you can
get a eulogy.

IIRC, be mentioned in the first thread that he couldn't make heads nor
tails of a wiring schematic. That's sign one that he was in over his
head. Since he is not installing a kit with full photo instructions
like the excellent ones from MLG, I think it is time for someone to
tell him, "Put down the needle nose pliers, step away from the
espresso machine and no one will get hurt."

Randy "burning hair smells bad" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com

"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>
>I tried to say this the other day and was called a curmudgeon, not helpful
>like that nice Jim, etc. There really has to be a point where you concede
>that you are undertaking a task that is beyond your skills. Its double
>dangerous if you are the brave type who just blindly start hooking up wires
>despite having no idea what the hell you are doing - either you create a
>dead short or nothing at all - so far our poster has done both. The next
>step is for him to energize the frame of the machine.
>
>I think his PC experience may have blinded him to the risks -inside a PC is
>all 5 and 12 volt and everthing is keyed.
>
>
>"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
>news:avekj2pose2b4nerabvk6n20ns8vr56r0h@4ax.com...
>>
>> If you took both black wires off the heating element contacts it
>> reflects your lack of experience and/or knowledge of electrical things
>> and it is time to get some assistance before you kill yourself or
>> damage more electronics or the espresso machine. Not being rude; just
>> trying to protect you.
>>
>>
>> Randy "He who wires the right way lives to write another day" G.
>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>>
>>
>

Date: 21 Oct 2006 04:11:05
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Still trying to hook up a pid

JC wrote:
> Thought I would start a new column because the other one got so big.
> Thanks to the group for the help.
> I am on my way but missing something.
> I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
> I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am
>
> following Jim's
> exact order for hookin everything up.
> I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
> not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
> powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step
>
> I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
> the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
>
> ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
> powering on.

The signal from the pid to the ssr is very small so you don't need such
heavy cable as 16 AWG, but other than that, so far so good. The pid
will only try to energise the ssr if its setpoint target temperature is
higher than the ambient temperature that the sensor is measuring -- do
you know what the setpoint value is at present?

> I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
> heating element to the output side of the ssr one wire to t1 one wire
> to l1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
> again and no led light on the ssr.
> I am wondering if there needs to be power to the output side of the ssr
> as well as the heating element connected to it. It sounds like L1 is an
> ac side and requires a hot power lead to complete the circuit. The 2
> heating element wires would connect to the T1 load side.
> Would this be right?
> Any Ideas. Thanks Jason

I think you have missed the point that others were making in the other
thread. The supply 'hot' wire is connected to one terminal of the ssr
(the particular terminal name varies between manufacturers but i think
it was made clear in the other thread). The wire from the other ssr
terminal goes to one side of the load, in this case the heater element.
The wire from the other side of the heater element goes to the
electricity supply neutral.

So the electricity flows from supply hot, through the ssr (when it's
switched on by the pid), then on through the heater, and then it
returns back to supply neutral forming a loop.

Date: 21 Oct 2006 07:58:35
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: Still trying to hook up a pid

On 20 Oct 2006 21:30:31 -0700, JC <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

> Thought I would start a new column because the other one got so big.

Please don't do that. Just because you are presumably using a broken
interface, it doesn't mean everyone else is similarly crippled.

It's a thread, don't artificially break it up.

regards, Ian SMith
--

Date: 20 Oct 2006 21:39:03
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: Still trying to hook up a pid