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Date: 05 Aug 2007 09:56:59
From: Crabman
Subject: Store bought beans?
Where/what is the best store bought bean for espressos and cappuccinos?
I'm speaking about supermarkets and such. Is there any?

Clay




 
Date: 06 Aug 2007 14:30:24
From: shane
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?

> personal preferences. Besides, how many local roasters out there really know
> what they're doing? Owning the equipment doesn't qualify one as an expert.
> --
> Robert Harmon


Welcome to my world of frustration... A couple of local wholesale
roasters and a couple of coffee shops, who have roasting equipment,
but have no clue about actual roasting. I have tried the coffee shop
roasts and I can roast better with my popper.

I once took a factory tour of local wholesale roaster, Alakef coffee,
during the tour I was served one of the best cups of coffee I have
ever had. Unfortunatley they only sell stuff wholesale, by the time I
get their coffee at my local supermarket, something goes wrong..
Perhaps it sits in the bins too long.

Shane



 
Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:49:19
From: shane
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Aug 6, 10:30 am, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:31:08 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
>
> <alt.cof...@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
> >You don't even homeroast Marshall. Don't knock it till you try it.. {;-)
> >Craig.
>
> Still got my Fresh Roast. Tested and reviewed a Zach & Dani's when it
> came out. Had a closet full of burlap bags. Discovered artisan
> roasters, realized how mediocre my coffee really was and chucked the
> hobby.
>
> This is not, not, not to say that home roasting cannot be a rewarding
> hobby and even make economic sense for someone who lives 2 UPS zones
> from the nearest decent roaster. I have had truly wonderful home
> roasted coffee sent to me by friends. But they had put years of
> experience and a lot of money into their home rigs. I definitely do
> not think it is they way to go for a coffee beginner who is just
> starting to learn what coffee is supposed to taste like.
>
> Telling a beginner who lives in Counter Culture's backyard to home
> roast, is like telling someone who lives in Bordeaux to learn what
> great wine tastes like by buying a bag of grape concentrate and a home
> wine making kit.
>
> Marshall

I'll chuck in my 2 cents. I agree with Marshall. Home roasting is not
worth it, if you live near a good artisian roaster.
I, rather frustratingly live just off of the beaten path, close enough
to see the path, not close enough to benefit from it.
Shipping on mail order coffee makes ordering a pound at a time not
worth it.

I usually order 2 pounds of any given green coffee, with the hope of
getting at least one good batch of popper roasted coffee from the lot.

Shane




  
Date: 06 Aug 2007 15:36:40
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
OK, living close to an artisan roaster is the next best thing to nirvana -
as long as your tastes & the roaster's tastes are in sync. But maybe you're
gaga for Yemen Mocha & your local roaster finds the stuff disgusting? So
home roasting isn't about proximity or lack of it, but for me it's about
personal preferences. Besides, how many local roasters out there really know
what they're doing? Owning the equipment doesn't qualify one as an expert.
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.




   
Date: 07 Aug 2007 12:18:46
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
I made a point earlier that the selection from a local roaster will not
usually be as varied as what you can get in quality greens from places like
Sweetmaria's and some of the coffee co-op operations. Some of the most
unique and interesting coffees are not available through Royal Coffee, which
seems to be where most commercial 'artisan' roasters buy their beans.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************

"Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:13bf1holu8n7e95@corp.supernews.com...
> OK, living close to an artisan roaster is the next best thing to nirvana -
> as long as your tastes & the roaster's tastes are in sync. But maybe
> you're gaga for Yemen Mocha & your local roaster finds the stuff
> disgusting? So home roasting isn't about proximity or lack of it, but for
> me it's about personal preferences. Besides, how many local roasters out
> there really know what they're doing? Owning the equipment doesn't qualify
> one as an expert.




   
Date: 06 Aug 2007 15:38:25
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:36:40 -0500, "Robert Harmon"
<Texas_Coffee@earthlink.net > wrote:

>Besides, how many local roasters out there really know
>what they're doing?

A small, but growing, minority. Fortunately, since the invention of
this "Internets" thing, we have ways of finding out who they are.

Here's a great place to start:
http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/an-obsessives-guide-to-coffee

Marshall


 
Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:47:21
From: Cyclepete
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Aug 6, 11:15 am, "Ed Needham" <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:
> I have not tasted espresso from a home
> superauto that comes near what I can get at a couple of quality local
> coffeehouses.
>

I have no doubt that a coffeehouse can, in theory, make better
espresso than I can with my home machine. Assuming the coffee house:
1)uses quality beans in a good blend
2)has them freshly roasted and to a roast level I prefer
3) has a correctly adjusted machine, properly warmed up
4) has an expert barrista to brew the coffee
5) if the espresso is to go into a cappuccino, froths the milk
correctly and doesn't add too much milk

Unfortunately, in the Philadelphia metropolitan area where I live, not
all these conditions seem to be met at any of the local coffee houses.
The espresso I make is MUCH superior, at least to my taste, than
anything I can get.

I roast my own coffee for a similar reason. I prefer a lighter
espresso roast. The local roasters here mostly like a charbucks style
roast. Plus getting it fresh enough for espresso is difficult. There
are some mail order houses I like, but that gets expensive to do on a
regular basis. And since I generally can only use about 1/2 pound at a
time before the beans start staling ( only espresso drinker at home),
there is typically too much coffee per mail order. So home roasting is
very convenient.



 
Date: 06 Aug 2007 11:28:22
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Aug 6, 12:44 pm, Moka Java <rtwatc...@yahoo.com > wrote:

> R "why buy when it's cheaper to rent" TF

Or why buy a tool when you can borrow your neighbor's?

{;-)



 
Date: 06 Aug 2007 07:09:41
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Aug 6, 6:16 am, Crabman <crab...@dud.net > wrote:
> Moka Java wrote:
> > Jim wrote:
> >> Marshall wrote:
>
> >>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
> >>> <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's
> >>>> not one of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>
> >>> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
> >>> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
> >>> recommendation.
>
> >>> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
> >>> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
> >>> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
> >>> quality of a CCC.
>
> >>> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
> >>> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
> >>> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
> >>> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>
> >>> Marshall :-)
>
> >> You may be underestimating the satisfaction that some "do it
> >> yourselfer" types get from this hobby. It's not for everybody. While
> >> I joke about the hassles (and there are hassles), I'm glad I took it up.
>
> > Marshall speaks from years of first hand experience. Yes, coffee
> > roasting is fun and interesting and just as hard to master and bread
> > making.
>
> >> As far as "learning what great coffee is supposed to taste like," OP
> >> might do well to follow my method of "research." I simply posted my
> >> location, and got several "tips" on where to find the best espresso in
> >> Seattle. I followed up on 5 or so recommendations, and a few of my
> >> own (and keep trying more as I find them and the time). My current
> >> favorite is Victrola.
>
> > A wonderful shop and you are lucky to have them as your benchmark.
>
> > And yes, I did make some adjustments to try to get closer
> >> to it. But we aren't starting with the same beans, and I don't have a
> >> four figure machine.
>
> > You can buy their beans and hone your espresso skills. Making decent
> > espresso is a heck of a lot easier than roasting the beans to make that
> > espresso. BTW, you don't need to spend thousands to get top home
> > roasting results but you do need to spend hundreds and, more
> > importantly, have a deep understanding of coffee beans and what to do
> > with them.
>
> >> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
> >> Monkey Espresso Blend.
>
> > Son, you've got a long way to go.
>
> > Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
> >> their EXPENSIVE machine,
>
> > Son, you've got a long way to go.
>
> > but (believe it or not) I think I do better
> >> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks
>
> > Not such a lofty goal.
>
> > or most
> >> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
> >> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I roast.
>
> > Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.
>
> > R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF
>
> Okay, getting back to the OP, I was looking for store bought beans, like
> retail. While I was intrigued by the "hot air Popper" comment, I
> definitely do NOT want another hobby.
>
> I really like espresso, and cappuccino better than drip coffee, but I'm
> a drinker who recently purchased a used Super Automatic instead of a
> grinder and semi machine because of the time and effort involved in the
> AM to drink it. It may not be difficult, but I really don't have the time.
>
> Since it sounds like there may be a roaster very nearby, I'm going to
> start with that route.
>
> Thanks everyone for their tips and ideas.
>
> Clay

Neither did I. What evolved is I roast in a most direct sense: A roast
is a first entry "air-bed" roaster, the lowest-priced roaster marketed
for roasting, to subsequently factor out after two or three coffee
shipments. The results are a) going to be better than common, lesser-
grade, commercially prepared roasted coffee, b) are not going to be a
bother. Bother: that which takes inordinate time for a smaller
residual at some greater cost effect taste negates. I can roast 3lbs.
within the hour, in the kitchen, in my shorts, from under a range hood
and an exhaust fan. 3lbs. will usually last two weeks. I order 20 lbs
of coffees in 5 lb. selections representing various nationalities for
$60, excluding local USPS shipping delivery which comes in a big box
left on the porch within two days. Roasts taste better than the same
supplier's roasted coffee, priced competitively across national
samplings at minimum of $5 a lb., inclusive of a premium marginally
priced on roasted coffee I've bought online from others;-- oh, and as
well the binned supermarket stuff, on sale and down $7 from $5, up the
road and just aways around the corner.



 
Date: 05 Aug 2007 15:11:47
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
http://rutamaya.net/



 
Date: 05 Aug 2007 10:25:30
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:56:59 -0400, Crabman <crabman@dud.net > wrote:

>Where/what is the best store bought bean for espressos and cappuccinos?
>I'm speaking about supermarkets and such. Is there any?
>
>Clay

It depends entirely on where you live. On the whole, supermarket
coffee is not as fresh as it should be. You are generally better off
buying directly from a good local roaster/retailer, if you have one.

If you tell us where you live, we can make suggestions.

Marshall


  
Date: 05 Aug 2007 16:07:17
From: Crabman
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:56:59 -0400, Crabman <crabman@dud.net> wrote:
>
>> Where/what is the best store bought bean for espressos and cappuccinos?
>> I'm speaking about supermarkets and such. Is there any?
>>
>> Clay
>
> It depends entirely on where you live. On the whole, supermarket
> coffee is not as fresh as it should be. You are generally better off
> buying directly from a good local roaster/retailer, if you have one.
>
> If you tell us where you live, we can make suggestions.
>
> Marshall

Thanks all.

I live in NC, Winston Salem area.

My local Costco is carrying Don Pablo beans. Supposedly shipped once per
week. There is a green bean supplier nearby, but I don't want to do any
roasting.

Clay


   
Date: 05 Aug 2007 17:10:25
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air popcorn
popper & give roasting your own a shot.

--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"Crabman" <crabman@dud.net > wrote in message
news:46b62e31$0$12207$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Marshall wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:56:59 -0400, Crabman <crabman@dud.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Where/what is the best store bought bean for espressos and cappuccinos?
>>> I'm speaking about supermarkets and such. Is there any?
>>>
>>> Clay
>>
>> It depends entirely on where you live. On the whole, supermarket
>> coffee is not as fresh as it should be. You are generally better off
>> buying directly from a good local roaster/retailer, if you have one.
>>
>> If you tell us where you live, we can make suggestions.
>>
>> Marshall
>
> Thanks all.
>
> I live in NC, Winston Salem area.
>
> My local Costco is carrying Don Pablo beans. Supposedly shipped once per
> week. There is a green bean supplier nearby, but I don't want to do any
> roasting.
>
> Clay




    
Date: 05 Aug 2007 20:03:41
From: Crabman
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Robert Harmon wrote:
> You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air popcorn
> popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>
Seriously?


     
Date: 05 Aug 2007 19:58:28
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:03:41 -0400, Crabman <crabman@dud.net > wrote:

>Robert Harmon wrote:
>> You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air popcorn
>> popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>>
>Seriously?

Seriously, NOT. Popcorn popping your coffee is a nice hobby and might
be a necessity for people in the boonies. You are not one of those
people.

You are lucky enough to live in the backyard of one of the most
respected coffee roasters in the country, Counter Culture Coffee. They
find the best beans in the world first-hand and buy them in direct
relationships with the farmers, then roast them with the greatest
skill and care. Peter Giuliano is one of the young giants of artisan
coffee.

CCC is a wholesale roaster (in Durham), and sells throughout the
Southeast (and beyond). Check out their website and then contact them
to find out who sells their coffee in your area.

www.counterculturecoffee.com

Marshall


      
Date: 05 Aug 2007 21:48:54
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:03:41 -0400, Crabman <crabman@dud.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Robert Harmon wrote:
>>
>>>You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air popcorn
>>>popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>>>
>>
>>Seriously?
>
>
> Seriously, NOT.

When I first saw the suggestion, I wanted to post a *tongue in cheek*
response "don't do it, it's a trick!"

I'm in Seattle. MANY roasters to choose from. But I wanted to try it
on my own. I started with a $1.99 Poppery II clone from a second hand
store, rewired to split heater and fan. After burning through half a
dozen of those in a year or so, I've upgraded to an original Poppery,
rewired and split with fan on a small variac and heater on a big variac.
I'm now using a digital thermometer and I carry a graph out with me
each time I roast, to try to match a temperature vs. time curve
(roasting profile). My next purchase could be a pyrex baking tube...

My point... Do it ONLY if you want a new hobby. It's easy to get
sucked in, and upgrade one thing after another. I'm not complaining,
because I am now getting what I believe to be excellent results. ...and
the sense of accomplishment that goes with it! But from a pure drinking
perspective, I'd be as happy buying from Victrola at more money, but no
cost for my "gear" and no time spent roasting.

If you're a "do it yourselfer" type that gets satisfaction from the
process, GO FOR IT!

> Popcorn popping your coffee is a nice hobby and might
> be a necessity for people in the boonies. You are not one of those
> people.
>
> You are lucky enough to live in the backyard of one of the most
> respected coffee roasters in the country, Counter Culture Coffee. They
> find the best beans in the world first-hand and buy them in direct
> relationships with the farmers, then roast them with the greatest
> skill and care. Peter Giuliano is one of the young giants of artisan
> coffee.
>
> CCC is a wholesale roaster (in Durham), and sells throughout the
> Southeast (and beyond). Check out their website and then contact them
> to find out who sells their coffee in your area.
>
> www.counterculturecoffee.com
>
> Marshall


      
Date: 05 Aug 2007 23:58:40
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's not one
of <<<those people >>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************


"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:s53db3p23796bpm800ki02if3p14ubradj@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:03:41 -0400, Crabman <crabman@dud.net> wrote:
>
>>Robert Harmon wrote:
>>> You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air
>>> popcorn
>>> popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>>>
>>Seriously?
>
> Seriously, NOT. Popcorn popping your coffee is a nice hobby and might
> be a necessity for people in the boonies. You are not one of those
> people.
<SNIP >




       
Date: 05 Aug 2007 22:59:24
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
<ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:

>Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's not one
>of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?

Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
recommendation.

It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
quality of a CCC.

What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.

Marshall :-)


        
Date: 06 Aug 2007 10:31:08
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?

"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:tjddb398v64c5mshnicddhnhq1usv3d1a3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
>>Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's not
>>one
>>of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>
> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
> recommendation.
>
> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
> quality of a CCC.
>
> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>
> Marshall :-)


You don't even homeroast Marshall. Don't knock it till you try it.. {;-)
Craig.




         
Date: 06 Aug 2007 08:30:19
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:31:08 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
<alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote:


>You don't even homeroast Marshall. Don't knock it till you try it.. {;-)
>Craig.

Still got my Fresh Roast. Tested and reviewed a Zach & Dani's when it
came out. Had a closet full of burlap bags. Discovered artisan
roasters, realized how mediocre my coffee really was and chucked the
hobby.

This is not, not, not to say that home roasting cannot be a rewarding
hobby and even make economic sense for someone who lives 2 UPS zones
from the nearest decent roaster. I have had truly wonderful home
roasted coffee sent to me by friends. But they had put years of
experience and a lot of money into their home rigs. I definitely do
not think it is they way to go for a coffee beginner who is just
starting to learn what coffee is supposed to taste like.

Telling a beginner who lives in Counter Culture's backyard to home
roast, is like telling someone who lives in Bordeaux to learn what
great wine tastes like by buying a bag of grape concentrate and a home
wine making kit.

Marshall


          
Date: 07 Aug 2007 12:15:43
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall is not a coffee or roasting novice. He's one of a few I've met
though that has gone quite a ways down the path and decided homeroasting is
not for him. I can't argue with that. Personal choice.

As a homeroaster and a beer homebrewer, I tend to agree with your analogy of
making wine. The exception is that, even if much of what I make could not
be sold commercially, and does not compare with the top selling brews, what
I make is usually incredibly enjoyable, challenging and it adds a bit of
interest to my life. Occasionally, as with the porter I did last year, it
comes right up there with the best porters I've ever tasted as judged by
myself and several certified beer judges. I'm not totally sure I could
replicate it though, and therein lies much of the difference between me and
a professional brewer.

I've roasted 30+ years now and I can pretty much produce roast after roast
of coffee the way I like it. It's not hit or miss anymore. I don't nail it
every time, but I don't miss by much. And again, I think it adds a bit of
interest to who I am. I like it.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************

"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:5qeeb3tl0594epupb8rp4httutofnl036u@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:31:08 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
> <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You don't even homeroast Marshall. Don't knock it till you try it.. {;-)
>>Craig.
>
> Still got my Fresh Roast. Tested and reviewed a Zach & Dani's when it
> came out. Had a closet full of burlap bags. Discovered artisan
> roasters, realized how mediocre my coffee really was and chucked the
> hobby.
>
> This is not, not, not to say that home roasting cannot be a rewarding
> hobby and even make economic sense for someone who lives 2 UPS zones
> from the nearest decent roaster. I have had truly wonderful home
> roasted coffee sent to me by friends. But they had put years of
> experience and a lot of money into their home rigs. I definitely do
> not think it is they way to go for a coffee beginner who is just
> starting to learn what coffee is supposed to taste like.
>
> Telling a beginner who lives in Counter Culture's backyard to home
> roast, is like telling someone who lives in Bordeaux to learn what
> great wine tastes like by buying a bag of grape concentrate and a home
> wine making kit.
>
> Marshall




          
Date: 06 Aug 2007 19:56:10
From: Crabman
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:31:08 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
> <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>
>
>> You don't even homeroast Marshall. Don't knock it till you try it.. {;-)
>> Craig.
>
> Still got my Fresh Roast. Tested and reviewed a Zach & Dani's when it
> came out. Had a closet full of burlap bags. Discovered artisan
> roasters, realized how mediocre my coffee really was and chucked the
> hobby.
>
> This is not, not, not to say that home roasting cannot be a rewarding
> hobby and even make economic sense for someone who lives 2 UPS zones
> from the nearest decent roaster. I have had truly wonderful home
> roasted coffee sent to me by friends. But they had put years of
> experience and a lot of money into their home rigs. I definitely do
> not think it is they way to go for a coffee beginner who is just
> starting to learn what coffee is supposed to taste like.
>
> Telling a beginner who lives in Counter Culture's backyard to home
> roast, is like telling someone who lives in Bordeaux to learn what
> great wine tastes like by buying a bag of grape concentrate and a home
> wine making kit.
>
> Marshall
I'm going to try Counter Culture first. Then see where this all takes
me. I have enough hobbies and not enough time to enjoy them now. My
Super Auto is better than my old drip maker and super market coffee. Now
I need better coffee, and I think that will be my limit.

Thanks Everyone for their help, and lively discussion. I always enjoy
listening to people who are passionate about things discuss and debate
things.

Thanks again.

Clay



          
Date: 06 Aug 2007 11:53:13
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?

"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:5qeeb3tl0594epupb8rp4httutofnl036u@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:31:08 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
> <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You don't even homeroast Marshall. Don't knock it till you try it.. {;-)
>>Craig.
>
> Still got my Fresh Roast. Tested and reviewed a Zach & Dani's when it
> came out. Had a closet full of burlap bags. Discovered artisan
> roasters, realized how mediocre my coffee really was and chucked the
> hobby.
>
> This is not, not, not to say that home roasting cannot be a rewarding
> hobby and even make economic sense for someone who lives 2 UPS zones
> from the nearest decent roaster. I have had truly wonderful home
> roasted coffee sent to me by friends. But they had put years of
> experience and a lot of money into their home rigs. I definitely do
> not think it is they way to go for a coffee beginner who is just
> starting to learn what coffee is supposed to taste like.
>
> Telling a beginner who lives in Counter Culture's backyard to home
> roast, is like telling someone who lives in Bordeaux to learn what
> great wine tastes like by buying a bag of grape concentrate and a home
> wine making kit.
>
> Marshall

Ok, sorry Marshall. I wasn't trying to start something, just that your CG
profile says under the roaster section., "none".
Cheers,
Craig.




        
Date: 06 Aug 2007 10:22:37
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall, there are better ways to spend your time.
--
*********************
Ed Needham (proud homeroasting evangelist)
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************


"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:tjddb398v64c5mshnicddhnhq1usv3d1a3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
>>Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's not
>>one
>>of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>
> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
> recommendation.
<SNIP >




        
Date: 06 Aug 2007 00:13:41
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's not one
>>of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>
>
> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
> recommendation.
>
> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
> quality of a CCC.
>
> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>
> Marshall :-)

You may be underestimating the satisfaction that some "do it yourselfer"
types get from this hobby. It's not for everybody. While I joke about
the hassles (and there are hassles), I'm glad I took it up.

As far as "learning what great coffee is supposed to taste like," OP
might do well to follow my method of "research." I simply posted my
location, and got several "tips" on where to find the best espresso in
Seattle. I followed up on 5 or so recommendations, and a few of my own
(and keep trying more as I find them and the time). My current favorite
is Victrola. And yes, I did make some adjustments to try to get closer
to it. But we aren't starting with the same beans, and I don't have a
four figure machine.

All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
Monkey Espresso Blend. Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
their EXPENSIVE machine, but (believe it or not) I think I do better
with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks or most
others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I roast.


         
Date: 06 Aug 2007 03:42:24
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Jim wrote:
> Marshall wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
>> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's
>>> not one of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>>
>>
>> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
>> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
>> recommendation.
>>
>> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
>> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
>> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
>> quality of a CCC.
>>
>> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
>> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
>> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
>> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>>
>> Marshall :-)
>
> You may be underestimating the satisfaction that some "do it yourselfer"
> types get from this hobby. It's not for everybody. While I joke about
> the hassles (and there are hassles), I'm glad I took it up.

Marshall speaks from years of first hand experience. Yes, coffee
roasting is fun and interesting and just as hard to master and bread making.

>
> As far as "learning what great coffee is supposed to taste like," OP
> might do well to follow my method of "research." I simply posted my
> location, and got several "tips" on where to find the best espresso in
> Seattle. I followed up on 5 or so recommendations, and a few of my own
> (and keep trying more as I find them and the time). My current favorite
> is Victrola.

A wonderful shop and you are lucky to have them as your benchmark.

And yes, I did make some adjustments to try to get closer
> to it. But we aren't starting with the same beans, and I don't have a
> four figure machine.

You can buy their beans and hone your espresso skills. Making decent
espresso is a heck of a lot easier than roasting the beans to make that
espresso. BTW, you don't need to spend thousands to get top home
roasting results but you do need to spend hundreds and, more
importantly, have a deep understanding of coffee beans and what to do
with them.

>
> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
> Monkey Espresso Blend.

Son, you've got a long way to go.

Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
> their EXPENSIVE machine,

Son, you've got a long way to go.

but (believe it or not) I think I do better
> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks

Not such a lofty goal.

or most
> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I roast.

Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.

R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF


          
Date: 07 Aug 2007 17:03:16
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Moka Java wrote:

> Jim wrote:
>
>> Marshall wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
>>> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's
>>>> not one of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
>>> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
>>> recommendation.
>>>
>>> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
>>> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
>>> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
>>> quality of a CCC.
>>>
>>> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
>>> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
>>> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
>>> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>>>
>>> Marshall :-)
>>
>>
>> You may be underestimating the satisfaction that some "do it
>> yourselfer" types get from this hobby. It's not for everybody. While
>> I joke about the hassles (and there are hassles), I'm glad I took it up.
>
>
> Marshall speaks from years of first hand experience. Yes, coffee
> roasting is fun and interesting and just as hard to master and bread
> making.
>
>>
>> As far as "learning what great coffee is supposed to taste like," OP
>> might do well to follow my method of "research." I simply posted my
>> location, and got several "tips" on where to find the best espresso in
>> Seattle. I followed up on 5 or so recommendations, and a few of my
>> own (and keep trying more as I find them and the time). My current
>> favorite is Victrola.
>
>
> A wonderful shop and you are lucky to have them as your benchmark.
>
> And yes, I did make some adjustments to try to get closer
>
>> to it. But we aren't starting with the same beans, and I don't have a
>> four figure machine.
>
>
> You can buy their beans and hone your espresso skills. Making decent
> espresso is a heck of a lot easier than roasting the beans to make that
> espresso. BTW, you don't need to spend thousands to get top home
> roasting results but you do need to spend hundreds and, more
> importantly, have a deep understanding of coffee beans and what to do
> with them.

I'm sure that I do have plenty to learn about the beans and how they
roast. I'm trying to do a fast track by following simple advice from
others. I think it's working.


>
>>
>> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
>> Monkey Espresso Blend.
>
>
> Son, you've got a long way to go.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret that "son" comment, lacking any cues
from you. If you want to try to impress me with your knowledge, save
that for answering any questions I may have in the future.

>
> Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
>
>> their EXPENSIVE machine,
>
>
> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>
> but (believe it or not) I think I do better
>
>> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks
>
>
> Not such a lofty goal.
>
> or most
>
>> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
>> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I roast.
>
>
> Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.

If your the experienced one, and I'm the novice, shouldn't *I* be asking
all the questions? ;^)

Feel free to correct me, it won't bother me in the least. My
understanding of roast profile is the timing between temperature/bean
color/roast from green to finish to make "the best" out of the green
product.

>
> R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF


           
Date: 08 Aug 2007 15:04:30
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Jim wrote:

>>> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
>>> Monkey Espresso Blend.
>>
>>
>> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>
> I'm not quite sure how to interpret that "son" comment, lacking any cues
> from you. If you want to try to impress me with your knowledge, save
> that for answering any questions I may have in the future.

The world of espresso is so much bigger than SM's MB. I don't
particularly care for MB. Give Moka Kadir a try.

>
>>
>> Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
>>
>>> their EXPENSIVE machine,
>>
>>
>> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>>
>> but (believe it or not) I think I do better
>>
>>> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks
>>
>>
>> Not such a lofty goal.
>>
>> or most
>>
>>> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
>>> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I
>>> roast.
>>
>>
>> Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.
>
> If your the experienced one, and I'm the novice, shouldn't *I* be asking
> all the questions? ;^)
>
> Feel free to correct me, it won't bother me in the least. My
> understanding of roast profile is the timing between temperature/bean
> color/roast from green to finish to make "the best" out of the green
> product.

I hadn't read your other post describing your roast setup before writing
my prior post here. I roast a pound of beans a week or so with a heat
gun. That's 2 half pound batches. I can't roast when the air temp.
gets much below 60 since I roast outdoors. This does not give me the
sort of experience necessary to become an expert home roaster.

The roast profile is the time to and temperature at various landmarks in
the roasting process. These landmarks are drying, beginning of 1st
crack, end of 1st crack, beginning of 2nd crack, rolling 2nd, end of
2nd, beginning of 3rd crack, fire extinguisher . . . To understand why
the beans should be at a certain temp. at a certain time at a certain
landmark is to really understand roasting.

As I said somewhere else, it's a heck of a lot easier to pull a decent
shot of espresso than to roast the beans. Hone your espresso skills on
beans roasted by a skilled roaster.

R "as a coffee roaster I'm a hack" TF

>
>>
>> R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF


            
Date: 08 Aug 2007 14:30:57
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Moka Java wrote:

> Jim wrote:
>
>>>> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet
>>>> Maria's Monkey Espresso Blend.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>>
>>
>> I'm not quite sure how to interpret that "son" comment, lacking any
>> cues from you. If you want to try to impress me with your knowledge,
>> save that for answering any questions I may have in the future.
>
>
> The world of espresso is so much bigger than SM's MB. I don't
> particularly care for MB. Give Moka Kadir a try.

I have. And many other of their blends and certain single varietals (is
that appropriate for coffee?). I found a Zambian Lupili that I got
really good results from, but it sold out in no time.

>
>>
>>>
>>> Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
>>>
>>>> their EXPENSIVE machine,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>>>
>>> but (believe it or not) I think I do better
>>>
>>>> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not such a lofty goal.
>>>
>>> or most
>>>
>>>> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
>>>> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I
>>>> roast.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.
>>
>>
>> If your the experienced one, and I'm the novice, shouldn't *I* be
>> asking all the questions? ;^)
>>
>> Feel free to correct me, it won't bother me in the least. My
>> understanding of roast profile is the timing between temperature/bean
>> color/roast from green to finish to make "the best" out of the green
>> product.
>
>
> I hadn't read your other post describing your roast setup before writing
> my prior post here. I roast a pound of beans a week or so with a heat
> gun. That's 2 half pound batches. I can't roast when the air temp.
> gets much below 60 since I roast outdoors. This does not give me the
> sort of experience necessary to become an expert home roaster.
>
> The roast profile is the time to and temperature at various landmarks in
> the roasting process. These landmarks are drying, beginning of 1st
> crack, end of 1st crack, beginning of 2nd crack, rolling 2nd, end of
> 2nd, beginning of 3rd crack, fire extinguisher . . .

So I understood correctly.


> To understand why
> the beans should be at a certain temp. at a certain time at a certain
> landmark is to really understand roasting.

And I admit that I don't have that level of expertise. I just make a
graph of time to temperature based on comments from more experienced
roasters using Monkey Blend, and do my best to copy it.


>
> As I said somewhere else, it's a heck of a lot easier to pull a decent
> shot of espresso than to roast the beans. Hone your espresso skills on
> beans roasted by a skilled roaster.

It sure would be more convenient to stop by Victrola and buy a 1/2 pound
at a time. But I'll stick to roasting my own for a while.




>
> R "as a coffee roaster I'm a hack" TF
>
>>
>>>
>>> R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF


           
Date: 07 Aug 2007 19:12:56
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:03:16 -0700, Jim <askme@beforeyousend.com >
wrote:

>Feel free to correct me, it won't bother me in the least. My
>understanding of roast profile is the timing between temperature/bean
>color/roast from green to finish to make "the best" out of the green
>product.

I remember one respected pro whose basic rule was that the beans
should expand at about the same rate as they change in color. YMMV.

Marshall


          
Date: 06 Aug 2007 10:49:36
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
I've met both you and Marshall and have bantered on this list with both of
you for years. I remember when Marshall gave up homeroasting. He was not a
coffee novice but still decided it was more rewarding to buy his beans
rather than fuss with homeroasting. Surely he is in the majority with that
choice.

Many though have no idea how easy it is to produce wonderful results
roasting at home. Since Marshall brought up the evangelist analogy, I'll
throw in another related analogy. Reading the Bible can be satisfying and
life changing even if you don't have an advanced degree in biblical studies.

Homeroasting can become an all-immersing hobby/lifestyle, or it can be an
easy way to explore way more coffees than your local roaster will ever
stock. Both the novice and the expert homeroaster can produce beans that
are well roasted. An inexpensive air popper and a sampler pack of beans can
be a fun and rewarding experience, for less than a month's supply of beans
from the retail roaster. And even poorly roasted beans are usually better
than those bought at the supermarket.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************

"Moka Java" <rtwatches@fishyahoo.com > wrote in message
news:5ho1vgF2qnuqlU1@mid.individual.net...
<SNIP >
>BTW, you don't need to spend thousands to get top home roasting results but
>you do need to spend hundreds and, more importantly, have a deep
>understanding of coffee beans and what to do with them.
<SNIP >




           
Date: 06 Aug 2007 09:57:13
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:49:36 -0400, "Ed Needham"
<ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:

>Since Marshall brought up the evangelist analogy, I'll
>throw in another related analogy. Reading the Bible can be satisfying and
>life changing even if you don't have an advanced degree in biblical studies.

True. But, you can wind up stoning adulterers and taking 12 wives, if
you don't have some guidance.

Marshall


            
Date: 07 Aug 2007 12:20:41
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
One wife was too much for me.
::grin::

"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:8kkeb315v4pgmeeeb59orne2u1opp630ku@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:49:36 -0400, "Ed Needham"
> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
>>Since Marshall brought up the evangelist analogy, I'll
>>throw in another related analogy. Reading the Bible can be satisfying and
>>life changing even if you don't have an advanced degree in biblical
>>studies.
>
> True. But, you can wind up stoning adulterers and taking 12 wives, if
> you don't have some guidance.
>
> Marshall




            
Date: 06 Aug 2007 13:44:46
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Marshall wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:49:36 -0400, "Ed Needham"
> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
>> Since Marshall brought up the evangelist analogy, I'll
>> throw in another related analogy. Reading the Bible can be satisfying and
>> life changing even if you don't have an advanced degree in biblical studies.
>
> True. But, you can wind up stoning adulterers and taking 12 wives, if
> you don't have some guidance.
>
> Marshall

I've come across many stoned adulterers over the years but don't
recommend 12 wives.

R "why buy when it's cheaper to rent" TF


            
Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:06:48
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Only 12 wives? I'm getting there - on 5.6 & counting!
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:8kkeb315v4pgmeeeb59orne2u1opp630ku@4ax.com...
> True. But, you can wind up stoning adulterers and taking 12 wives, if
> you don't have some guidance.
>
> Marshall




           
Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:37:28
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Don't get me wrong Ed. I enjoy home roasting when time, inclination and
the right beans coincide. And I also think it's fun and instructive for
anybody who really likes coffee to try their hand at roasting, if only
to better understand the process. But to think that the roast from a
$10 popper straight off the shelf from WalMart will match what a pro can
do . . .

I roast with a heat gun and a dog bowl. I have some control over the
roast profile but not enough to do a good Kenyan, Central or Yirg
justice. But after a bunch of years of roasting and studying the
process I can roast dry processed beans fairly well. From my
observations, DP beans have a wide latitude of "good".

R "I need lots of latitude" TF

Ed Needham wrote:
> I've met both you and Marshall and have bantered on this list with both of
> you for years. I remember when Marshall gave up homeroasting. He was not a
> coffee novice but still decided it was more rewarding to buy his beans
> rather than fuss with homeroasting. Surely he is in the majority with that
> choice.
>
> Many though have no idea how easy it is to produce wonderful results
> roasting at home. Since Marshall brought up the evangelist analogy, I'll
> throw in another related analogy. Reading the Bible can be satisfying and
> life changing even if you don't have an advanced degree in biblical studies.
>
> Homeroasting can become an all-immersing hobby/lifestyle, or it can be an
> easy way to explore way more coffees than your local roaster will ever
> stock. Both the novice and the expert homeroaster can produce beans that
> are well roasted. An inexpensive air popper and a sampler pack of beans can
> be a fun and rewarding experience, for less than a month's supply of beans
> from the retail roaster. And even poorly roasted beans are usually better
> than those bought at the supermarket.


            
Date: 07 Aug 2007 17:08:36
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Moka Java wrote:

> Don't get me wrong Ed. I enjoy home roasting when time, inclination and
> the right beans coincide. And I also think it's fun and instructive for
> anybody who really likes coffee to try their hand at roasting, if only
> to better understand the process. But to think that the roast from a
> $10 popper straight off the shelf from WalMart will match what a pro can
> do . . .
>
> I roast with a heat gun and a dog bowl.

I use an originally Poppery, heater on one variac with volt meter for
monitoring; fan on a second variac. I'm roasting 200 grams without the
need for any hands on stirring (by variacing up the fan to 145V at the
start).

I carry out a chart of time to temperature that is my current goal. I
use a digital thermometer, and my two hands on the two variacs. I'm
getting good results. A few seconds off my chart here and there, but
really pretty close. And finished product is improving as I hone my skills.


           
Date: 06 Aug 2007 10:04:40
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
"Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote in message
news:_oudnezmhKwQqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@insightbb.com...

SNIPPED

>And even poorly roasted beans are usually better than those bought at the
>supermarket.

Since the OP was asking about store brand coffee advice I thought my
suggestion to try home-roasting was appropriate. I also suggested a very
good online source for preroasted beans. *ALMOST* anything is better than
what he'd find at his local Safeway, Cost Plus, Starbucks, Trader Joe's.
There's also a lot to be said for getting at least one batch of Tom's
preroasted Monkey Blend to give oneself a good basis for comparing other
stuff. http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.roasted.html




          
Date: 06 Aug 2007 06:16:57
From: Crabman
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Moka Java wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>> Marshall wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
>>> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's
>>>> not one of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
>>> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
>>> recommendation.
>>>
>>> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
>>> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
>>> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
>>> quality of a CCC.
>>>
>>> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
>>> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
>>> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
>>> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>>>
>>> Marshall :-)
>>
>> You may be underestimating the satisfaction that some "do it
>> yourselfer" types get from this hobby. It's not for everybody. While
>> I joke about the hassles (and there are hassles), I'm glad I took it up.
>
> Marshall speaks from years of first hand experience. Yes, coffee
> roasting is fun and interesting and just as hard to master and bread
> making.
>
>>
>> As far as "learning what great coffee is supposed to taste like," OP
>> might do well to follow my method of "research." I simply posted my
>> location, and got several "tips" on where to find the best espresso in
>> Seattle. I followed up on 5 or so recommendations, and a few of my
>> own (and keep trying more as I find them and the time). My current
>> favorite is Victrola.
>
> A wonderful shop and you are lucky to have them as your benchmark.
>
> And yes, I did make some adjustments to try to get closer
>> to it. But we aren't starting with the same beans, and I don't have a
>> four figure machine.
>
> You can buy their beans and hone your espresso skills. Making decent
> espresso is a heck of a lot easier than roasting the beans to make that
> espresso. BTW, you don't need to spend thousands to get top home
> roasting results but you do need to spend hundreds and, more
> importantly, have a deep understanding of coffee beans and what to do
> with them.
>
>>
>> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
>> Monkey Espresso Blend.
>
> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>
> Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
>> their EXPENSIVE machine,
>
> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>
> but (believe it or not) I think I do better
>> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks
>
> Not such a lofty goal.
>
> or most
>> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
>> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I roast.
>
> Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.
>
> R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF


Okay, getting back to the OP, I was looking for store bought beans, like
retail. While I was intrigued by the "hot air Popper" comment, I
definitely do NOT want another hobby.

I really like espresso, and cappuccino better than drip coffee, but I'm
a drinker who recently purchased a used Super Automatic instead of a
grinder and semi machine because of the time and effort involved in the
AM to drink it. It may not be difficult, but I really don't have the time.

Since it sounds like there may be a roaster very nearby, I'm going to
start with that route.

Thanks everyone for their tips and ideas.

Clay



           
Date: 06 Aug 2007 11:16:20
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
I think those that enjoy homeroasting are those who enjoy other craft
endeavors. My friend Mike will come over every Saturday morning and enjoy
my coffee, and he makes it a point to sit out with me from time to time
while I'm roasting in my workshop, but he has no interest in homeroasting or
even brewing his own coffee at home. He enjoys hitting the coffeehouse each
morning and the social interaction there to start his day.
Each to their own. I have no desire to change him, you or anyone else, but
as a good therapist, I might present options that have not been considered.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************


"Crabman" <crabman@dud.net > wrote in message
news:46b6f549$0$31297$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Moka Java wrote:
>> Jim wrote:
>>> Marshall wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:58:40 -0400, "Ed Needham"
>>>> <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can't it even be an option to roast his own? Even if you know he's
>>>>> not one of <<<those people>>>, can't he give it a try if he wants?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ed, I'm just doing a public service, saving him from the home roasting
>>>> evangelists who jump on every innocent poster who asks for a coffee
>>>> recommendation.
>>>>
>>>> It is not an easy hobby to master. It is time consuming. A popper
>>>> makes a mess of your kitchen. It takes years of experience and much
>>>> more than a simple popcorn popper to even begin to approach the
>>>> quality of a CCC.
>>>>
>>>> What's worse is short-circuiting the coffee appreciation learning
>>>> process by diverting people to home roasting before they even know
>>>> what great coffee is supposed to taste like. Then you get those "Wow,
>>>> this is way better than Yuban. I must be in coffee nirvana." posts.
>>>>
>>>> Marshall :-)
>>>
>>> You may be underestimating the satisfaction that some "do it yourselfer"
>>> types get from this hobby. It's not for everybody. While I joke about
>>> the hassles (and there are hassles), I'm glad I took it up.
>>
>> Marshall speaks from years of first hand experience. Yes, coffee
>> roasting is fun and interesting and just as hard to master and bread
>> making.
>>
>>>
>>> As far as "learning what great coffee is supposed to taste like," OP
>>> might do well to follow my method of "research." I simply posted my
>>> location, and got several "tips" on where to find the best espresso in
>>> Seattle. I followed up on 5 or so recommendations, and a few of my own
>>> (and keep trying more as I find them and the time). My current favorite
>>> is Victrola.
>>
>> A wonderful shop and you are lucky to have them as your benchmark.
>>
>> And yes, I did make some adjustments to try to get closer
>>> to it. But we aren't starting with the same beans, and I don't have a
>>> four figure machine.
>>
>> You can buy their beans and hone your espresso skills. Making decent
>> espresso is a heck of a lot easier than roasting the beans to make that
>> espresso. BTW, you don't need to spend thousands to get top home roasting
>> results but you do need to spend hundreds and, more importantly, have a
>> deep understanding of coffee beans and what to do with them.
>>
>>>
>>> All in all, I'm very happy with what I can produce from Sweet Maria's
>>> Monkey Espresso Blend.
>>
>> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>>
>> Not quite at the level of my favorite shop, with
>>> their EXPENSIVE machine,
>>
>> Son, you've got a long way to go.
>>
>> but (believe it or not) I think I do better
>>> with my roast and my Gaggia Classic and MDF than Charbucks
>>
>> Not such a lofty goal.
>>
>> or most
>>> others I've tried. ...and I'm getting more consistent and closer to
>>> what I like now that I use a digital thermometer and timer while I
>>> roast.
>>
>> Does the term 'roast profile' mean anything to you.
>>
>> R "I know when I've ruined good beans" TF
>
>
> Okay, getting back to the OP, I was looking for store bought beans, like
> retail. While I was intrigued by the "hot air Popper" comment, I
> definitely do NOT want another hobby.
>
> I really like espresso, and cappuccino better than drip coffee, but I'm a
> drinker who recently purchased a used Super Automatic instead of a grinder
> and semi machine because of the time and effort involved in the AM to
> drink it. It may not be difficult, but I really don't have the time.
>
> Since it sounds like there may be a roaster very nearby, I'm going to
> start with that route.
>
> Thanks everyone for their tips and ideas.
>
> Clay
>




           
Date: 06 Aug 2007 11:15:34
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Your original post:
"Where/what is the best store bought bean for espressos and cappuccinos?
I'm speaking about supermarkets and such. Is there any?"

You won't get much satisfaction from supermarket coffee for either espresso
or other methods of brewing. If you want satisfying espresso, without
spending tons of money on home devices or commercial equipment, you'll need
to get it from a local coffeehouse that does all the bean selection and
roasting and blending for you. I have not tasted espresso from a home
superauto that comes near what I can get at a couple of quality local
coffeehouses.

It sounds like a relationship with your local roaster will match your
time/effort needs and level of quality desired.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************



"Crabman" <crabman@dud.net > wrote in message
news:46b6f549$0$31297$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> Okay, getting back to the OP, I was looking for store bought beans, like
> retail. While I was intrigued by the "hot air Popper" comment, I
> definitely do NOT want another hobby.
>
> I really like espresso, and cappuccino better than drip coffee, but I'm a
> drinker who recently purchased a used Super Automatic instead of a grinder
> and semi machine because of the time and effort involved in the AM to
> drink it. It may not be difficult, but I really don't have the time.
>
> Since it sounds like there may be a roaster very nearby, I'm going to
> start with that route.
>
> Thanks everyone for their tips and ideas.
>
> Clay
>




            
Date: 06 Aug 2007 19:59:23
From: Crabman
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Ed Needham wrote:
> Your original post:
> "Where/what is the best store bought bean for espressos and cappuccinos?
> I'm speaking about supermarkets and such. Is there any?"
>
> You won't get much satisfaction from supermarket coffee for either espresso
> or other methods of brewing. If you want satisfying espresso, without
> spending tons of money on home devices or commercial equipment, you'll need
> to get it from a local coffeehouse that does all the bean selection and
> roasting and blending for you. I have not tasted espresso from a home
> superauto that comes near what I can get at a couple of quality local
> coffeehouses.
>
> It sounds like a relationship with your local roaster will match your
> time/effort needs and level of quality desired.

That is what I shall try!
Clay


     
Date: 05 Aug 2007 21:08:41
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Sure, go over to Google and do a search for 'popcorn popper roast coffee'.
It's a well established way to get started. After you get the popper go to
sweetmarias.com and order the small sampler pack - you'll get 8 half pound
bags of green coffee beans.

Enjoy!
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"Crabman" <crabman@dud.net > wrote in message
news:46b6657a$0$4714$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Robert Harmon wrote:
>> You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air
>> popcorn popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>>
> Seriously?




      
Date: 05 Aug 2007 23:56:11
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
My site has a bunch of documented roaster projects, many of which begin with
a 75 cent thrift store hot air popcorn popper.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************

"Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:13bd0kb1utofk3a@corp.supernews.com...
> Sure, go over to Google and do a search for 'popcorn popper roast coffee'.
> It's a well established way to get started. After you get the popper go to
> sweetmarias.com and order the small sampler pack - you'll get 8 half pound
> bags of green coffee beans.
>
> Enjoy!
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --
> http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
> "Crabman" <crabman@dud.net> wrote in message
> news:46b6657a$0$4714$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Robert Harmon wrote:
>>> You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air
>>> popcorn popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>>>
>> Seriously?
>
>




     
Date: 05 Aug 2007 21:33:43
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?

"Crabman" <crabman@dud.net > wrote in message
news:46b6657a$0$4714$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Robert Harmon wrote:
>> You need to run over to your local resale store & pick up a hot air
>> popcorn popper & give roasting your own a shot.
>>
> Seriously?

Sure, you have nothin' to loose, & everything to gain! {;-D
Craig.




 
Date: 05 Aug 2007 07:52:35
From: normstar
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Anything freshly roasted I reckon. If you have a Whole Foods or any
gourmet type of grocery store, they often have roasting on premises or
at least some good fresh beans from a local roaster. Try ordering
online as well, its often less expensive than the stores and much
better.

an



  
Date: 05 Aug 2007 10:10:42
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
I second this suggestion of buying online - better beans, better roast, &
fresher. I like Ruta Maya in Austin, TX, for mail order beans.
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"normstar" <anorman74@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1186325555.046850.42050@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Anything freshly roasted I reckon. If you have a Whole Foods or any
> gourmet type of grocery store, they often have roasting on premises or
> at least some good fresh beans from a local roaster. Try ordering
> online as well, its often less expensive than the stores and much
> better.
>
> an
>




   
Date: 05 Aug 2007 16:12:16
From: Crabman
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
Robert Harmon wrote:
> I second this suggestion of buying online - better beans, better roast, &
> fresher. I like Ruta Maya in Austin, TX, for mail order beans.


What do you recommend Robert?
Clay


    
Date: 05 Aug 2007 17:09:12
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Store bought beans?
I buy the medium roast for the drip machines when we have a church function
with lots of folks. I either the medium or dark roast for espresso. For
those who need decaf I'm told by friends that theirs is pretty good.

--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"Crabman" <crabman@dud.net > wrote in message
news:46b62f56$0$3145$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Robert Harmon wrote:
>> I second this suggestion of buying online - better beans, better roast, &
>> fresher. I like Ruta Maya in Austin, TX, for mail order beans.
>
>
> What do you recommend Robert?
> Clay