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Date: 28 Mar 2007 04:42:36
From: Travesso
Subject: Styrofoam Boiler
I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam. It kept the water at
a perfect 202 degrees for an extended period. However, when I removed
the Styrofoam after extracting the coffee it was smashed into a ball.
It worked great, but the pressure from the pump destroyed it. I tried
to wrap the Styrofoam around the outside of the boiler, but there was
too much heat loss from the boiler.
My goal: to bring water into a system at 203 degrees, and have it
maintain 203 degrees throughout the system without applying anymore
heat to the system. This should provide a perfectly flat temperature
line.

What can I line the inside of the boiler with that will:
Retain heat.
Not be toxic when heated to over 212 degrees.
Retain original shape when applying over 150PSI.

Should I try Polysiloxane, Flurosilcone, or Flouracarbon? For about
$800, I can have a piece specifically made to fit -- out of any three
materials.





 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 19:37:10
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 11:30 am, "diab0lus" <r0cketscient...@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
> Do you actually have a 3.5 oz. boiler? I read about a home machine
> that came with a boiler around that size, but I forget which model it
> was. The first paragraph that I posted was sarcasm - sorry if it
> didn't come across that way. What machine are you talking about?

Yes, it's sitting on the terrazzo floor beside me in the kitchen, in a
packaged box, just delivered today and unopened. (Or sometime
thereabouts, as I'm online out of bed, but only on my second
espresso). The 3.5 oz. boiler is an affirmative, though hands-on
appreciation may be awhile, plus fixing any outstanding issues/
inconveniences if not learning to live with others. I've no idea
where I'm presently at -- cluelessly back to square one, until it's
opened, explored, hopefully for favorable impressions.



 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 13:58:08
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 9:45 am, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 29, 7:50 am, "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > What does your device use to generate the pressure needed to force the water
> > > through the coffee?
>
> > > --
> > > Roger Shoaf
> > > If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
>
> > We use a CO2 type bicycle inflator. At first, we actually used CO2
> > cartridges, but after 30 seconds of 160 PSI (we like 160PSI to start,
> > and then to fall to 100PSI for PODs--one nice thing about this unit is
> > that you can endlessly play around with rising and falling pressure
> > curves) the water carbonates. We then tested Argon gas, which seems
> > to flatten out the espresso. We are now using NO2, which works really
> > well.
> > I will try to get some new pictures up soon. I am a CPA by profession
> > (www.brockdorf.com) so it will most likely be a month. We have 9
> > patents on this unit, and we wanted to make sure they went through
> > before we posted current pictures. That happened at the end of last
> > week. We also are looking at using a bayonet clasp instead of
> > threading the two pieces together.
> > In addition, my wife said that I could not continue with the project
> > until after I met with Nick Cho to get his outside opinion -- I did
> > that last month.
>
> YES, AND HIS OPINION WAS?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't want to speak for him. But he liked it. We were to meet for
an hour, and he spent 8 hours with us. He is an amazing person.



 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 09:53:58
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 3:27 am, "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Has anyone have a good source for applying a ceramic coating to metal?

<http://www.bodycote.com/ >. Enjoy.

Best,
David



 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 08:30:56
From: diab0lus
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 8:50 am, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net > wrote:
> No insulation, as the whole point of smallness is efficiency, and no
> relief valve if it's matched in tolerances. Yes, the 10 second cycle
> is also related to a problem I've noted with the 3.5 oz boiler, as
> well. What the endusers are doing, is frothing prematurely, prior to
> a steady status factory ready lamp indication state. A design problem

Do you actually have a 3.5 oz. boiler? I read about a home machine
that came with a boiler around that size, but I forget which model it
was. The first paragraph that I posted was sarcasm - sorry if it
didn't come across that way. What machine are you talking about?

> commercial grade stability over repeated cycling. What's the Silvia
> weigh, 30 lbs. . . good many commercial machines on ebay, they'd

I don't have a problem with Silvia. I've corrected the major things
that I didn't like about it.

> items. A friend and former USAF, while on a duty flight, visited an
> Italian restraunt, in mentioning he insulted the waiter by slamming
> consecutive espresso shots. He probably reiterated the same story one
> night, not long ago, when I made him an espresso with added water
> only, (nor, an appreciably notable espresso before adding the water),
> which he politely said was fine. Some poeple just like to reiterate
> themselves. The guy's got to be approaching 80, runs an intracounty,
> government green-type agency, for which, I've built the officers
> computers for a long time. That night is the first I heard him
> mention he drinks 50 cups of brewed coffee a day, though.

It sounds like you drink 50 cups a day yourself - a modern day
Voltaire.

Ryan



 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 06:50:44
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 12:24 am, "diab0lus" <r0cketscient...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 28, 7:12 pm, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net> wrote:
>
> > I look at a little 3.5 oz. boiler w/ two powerful elements effectively
> > heating the steam/water instantaneously, and the efficiency is already
> > there in the most pragmatic sense. No need to be insulated. Couple
>
> Swagelok makes a nifty 75 ml (~2.5 oz.) and 150 ml (~5 oz.) double-
> ended sample cylinder with female NPT on each end that could be used
> for this purpose, but you would need to tap an itty bitty relief valve
> somewhere. They make smaller ones too - 40 and 50 ml. In a single
> boiler set up, steaming would be great... for 10 seconds. With all of
> that extra space, you could insulate the boiler with huge wads of
> fiberglass insulation from the attic (or tear open an outside wall).
>
> Seriously, I thought about putting a sample cylinder inline between
> the pump and boiler and adding a rope heater, strip heater or
> something like that with a pid to basically eliminate temperature
> recovery time between shots (in my theory anyway). I don't have any
> more room in my silvia to do this.
>
> Ryan

No insulation, as the whole point of smallness is efficiency, and no
relief valve if it's matched in tolerances. Yes, the 10 second cycle
is also related to a problem I've noted with the 3.5 oz boiler, as
well. What the endusers are doing, is frothing prematurely, prior to
a steady status factory ready lamp indication state. A design problem
for some, for sure. Well, maybe not me, as I don't like that much milk
in the first place, and a quick window may be fine. Milk can be too
chalky an impression, even though some of my friends, also milked
coffee drinkers, act like my taste for strong coffee nothing short of
atrocious when I make them the same drink. A Silvia, solid and
probably the single most modified production model around. You want
commercial grade stability over repeated cycling. What's the Silvia
weigh, 30 lbs. . . good many commercial machines on ebay, they'd
rather avoid shipping things are so heavy they're you pick them up
items. A friend and former USAF, while on a duty flight, visited an
Italian restraunt, in mentioning he insulted the waiter by slamming
consecutive espresso shots. He probably reiterated the same story one
night, not long ago, when I made him an espresso with added water
only, (nor, an appreciably notable espresso before adding the water),
which he politely said was fine. Some poeple just like to reiterate
themselves. The guy's got to be approaching 80, runs an intracounty,
government green-type agency, for which, I've built the officers
computers for a long time. That night is the first I heard him
mention he drinks 50 cups of brewed coffee a day, though.



 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 06:45:52
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 7:50 am, "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > What does your device use to generate the pressure needed to force the water
> > through the coffee?
>
> > --
> > Roger Shoaf
> > If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
>
> We use a CO2 type bicycle inflator. At first, we actually used CO2
> cartridges, but after 30 seconds of 160 PSI (we like 160PSI to start,
> and then to fall to 100PSI for PODs--one nice thing about this unit is
> that you can endlessly play around with rising and falling pressure
> curves) the water carbonates. We then tested Argon gas, which seems
> to flatten out the espresso. We are now using NO2, which works really
> well.
> I will try to get some new pictures up soon. I am a CPA by profession
> (www.brockdorf.com) so it will most likely be a month. We have 9
> patents on this unit, and we wanted to make sure they went through
> before we posted current pictures. That happened at the end of last
> week. We also are looking at using a bayonet clasp instead of
> threading the two pieces together.
> In addition, my wife said that I could not continue with the project
> until after I met with Nick Cho to get his outside opinion -- I did
> that last month.

YES, AND HIS OPINION WAS?



 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 04:50:29
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

>
> What does your device use to generate the pressure needed to force the water
> through the coffee?
>
> --
> Roger Shoaf
> If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

We use a CO2 type bicycle inflator. At first, we actually used CO2
cartridges, but after 30 seconds of 160 PSI (we like 160PSI to start,
and then to fall to 100PSI for PODs--one nice thing about this unit is
that you can endlessly play around with rising and falling pressure
curves) the water carbonates. We then tested Argon gas, which seems
to flatten out the espresso. We are now using NO2, which works really
well.
I will try to get some new pictures up soon. I am a CPA by profession
(www.brockdorf.com) so it will most likely be a month. We have 9
patents on this unit, and we wanted to make sure they went through
before we posted current pictures. That happened at the end of last
week. We also are looking at using a bayonet clasp instead of
threading the two pieces together.
In addition, my wife said that I could not continue with the project
until after I met with Nick Cho to get his outside opinion -- I did
that last month.



  
Date: 29 Mar 2007 09:24:15
From: Roger Shoaf
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1175169028.969271.280850@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >
> > What does your device use to generate the pressure needed to force the
water
> > through the coffee?
> >
> > --
> > Roger Shoaf
> > If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the
solvent.
>
> We use a CO2 type bicycle inflator. At first, we actually used CO2
> cartridges, but after 30 seconds of 160 PSI (we like 160PSI to start,
> and then to fall to 100PSI for PODs--one nice thing about this unit is
> that you can endlessly play around with rising and falling pressure
> curves) the water carbonates. We then tested Argon gas, which seems
> to flatten out the espresso. We are now using NO2, which works really
> well.

I have been thinking about using gas or compressed air instead of a pump. It
is kind of interesting that the CO2 would actually carbonate the coffee in
the short time it is in contact with the water. Perhaps the nitrogen with
the smaller bubbles will actually improve the mouth feel, kind of like
Guiness on tap. You could play with the idea by feeding the nitrogen into
the water rather than just building a head of pressure on top.

The short coming I see to your machine is that the little cartrages are
really expensive. Perhaps an acceptable expense for a back packer but to use
elseware a bigger bottle of gas or a small air compresser would probably be
the way to go.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.




 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 03:27:18
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
Has anyone have a good source for applying a ceramic coating to metal?



  
Date: 29 Mar 2007 23:48:07
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote:



   
Date: 30 Mar 2007 08:44:17
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
>Applying coatings to the insides of boilers is not something that has
>worked
>well for espresso machine manufacturers,


Actually, the el cheapo A$99.00 espresso machine I checked out a couple of
years ago had a ?teflon? ?silverstone? (maybe) lined aluminium boiler. A
recent dissection showed the lining to be intact after 2 years or so hard
use.


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




    
Date: 30 Mar 2007 10:03:00
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler


 
Date: 29 Mar 2007 03:05:50
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 29, 12:24 am, "diab0lus" <r0cketscient...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 28, 7:12 pm, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net> wrote:
>
> > I look at a little 3.5 oz. boiler w/ two powerful elements effectively
> > heating the steam/water instantaneously, and the efficiency is already
> > there in the most pragmatic sense. No need to be insulated. Couple
>
> Swagelok makes a nifty 75 ml (~2.5 oz.) and 150 ml (~5 oz.) double-
> ended sample cylinder with female NPT on each end that could be used
> for this purpose, but you would need to tap an itty bitty relief valve
> somewhere. They make smaller ones too - 40 and 50 ml. In a single
> boiler set up, steaming would be great... for 10 seconds. With all of
> that extra space, you could insulate the boiler with huge wads of
> fiberglass insulation from the attic (or tear open an outside wall).
>
> Seriously, I thought about putting a sample cylinder inline between
> the pump and boiler and adding a rope heater, strip heater or
> something like that with a pid to basically eliminate temperature
> recovery time between shots (in my theory anyway). I don't have any
> more room in my silvia to do this.
>
> Ryan

Thank you.
We have a portable espresso machine that uses PODs to make espresso.
The product has two defined users: the person who wants to be able to
offer espresso in the home, but does not drink it, and the espresso
drinker who travels or camps. We can set it up to use ground coffee,
but the POD has a benefit to both these two kets.
We originally designed this product (it is 4" tall and 3" wide) to be
heated by fire or stovetop. We have no heat loss problems with this
setup. However, one of our beta testers wanted to pour hot water from
a kettle into the unit. We would like to know if this is possible.
So far, our trials are problematic. You have to pour in boiling water
5 times before the boiler (the cup part) is hot enough to sustain 200-
degree water. A Styrofoam insert kept the heat but disfigured. We
went ahead with the Silicone yesterday, which did well, but it still
had a lot of heat loss (a lot meaning 190 degrees was only available
for 5 seconds, and 185 was sustainable).
I know that many of you will be skeptical about our system, but people
in the specialty coffee industry have reviewed this product
favorable.

This is one of our earlier models. http://travesso.com/index-4.html



  
Date: 29 Mar 2007 03:58:13
From: Roger Shoaf
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1175162750.492582.153090@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

> ...one of our beta testers wanted to pour hot water from
> a kettle into the unit. We would like to know if this is possible.
> So far, our trials are problematic. You have to pour in boiling water
> 5 times before the boiler (the cup part) is hot enough to sustain 200-
> degree water. A Styrofoam insert kept the heat but disfigured. We
> went ahead with the Silicone yesterday, which did well, but it still
> had a lot of heat loss (a lot meaning 190 degrees was only available
> for 5 seconds, and 185 was sustainable).

I think the best way to insulate a volume of water is with a vacuum bottle.
Why not test the heat loss in a thermos bottle first. Seems to me you are
going to loose a lot of heat as the water pours from the kettle to the
vessel and this may be what you are seeing.

If it is the answer may lie in heating the water under a little head of
steam pressure. This will require a pressure cooker rather than a ordinary
kettle, but let's assume you could get the water to 220 degrees F and then
transfer the water from the pressure vessel to the brew chamber via a tube.
The water starting at a higher temperature would have a little more heat to
loose so this may be a way to achieve your desired result of having 200
degree water long enough to pass through the coffee.

What does your device use to generate the pressure needed to force the water
through the coffee?

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.




 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 21:24:39
From: diab0lus
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 28, 7:12 pm, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net > wrote:

> I look at a little 3.5 oz. boiler w/ two powerful elements effectively
> heating the steam/water instantaneously, and the efficiency is already
> there in the most pragmatic sense. No need to be insulated. Couple

Swagelok makes a nifty 75 ml (~2.5 oz.) and 150 ml (~5 oz.) double-
ended sample cylinder with female NPT on each end that could be used
for this purpose, but you would need to tap an itty bitty relief valve
somewhere. They make smaller ones too - 40 and 50 ml. In a single
boiler set up, steaming would be great... for 10 seconds. With all of
that extra space, you could insulate the boiler with huge wads of
fiberglass insulation from the attic (or tear open an outside wall).

Seriously, I thought about putting a sample cylinder inline between
the pump and boiler and adding a rope heater, strip heater or
something like that with a pid to basically eliminate temperature
recovery time between shots (in my theory anyway). I don't have any
more room in my silvia to do this.

Ryan



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 17:12:13
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 28, 6:32 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > Jesus, you guys gotta be hard up to respond to this shit! lol!!
> > Craig.
>
> who said we weren't????
>
> d


I look at a little 3.5 oz. boiler w/ two powerful elements effectively
heating the steam/water instantaneously, and the efficiency is already
there in the most pragmatic sense. No need to be insulated. Couple
of passed draws and should be adequately heated. Couple of regular
draws, perhaps add a couple more to measure for temperature
fluctuations. Couple more for blind tasting, how well it handles
creama, and if it tastes right then just perhaps the engineers
actually did do something right (besides shaving for profits). At 3.5
oz. smallness is efficiency. No need to be stacked six to a row for
patrons at the local JukeJoint, just a couple in the AM and now and
then after.



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 16:15:56
From: c0ffeegeek
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 28, 2:43 pm, "Craig Andrews" <alt.cof...@deletethis.rogers.com >
wrote:
> <old_...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1175117802.615254.25860@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Has anyone else looked at the OPs website?
>
> >http://www.travesso.com/
>
> > Gotta love the line about getting a godshot (with a POD)...I'm done.
>
> > Kurt
>
> Jesus, you guys gotta be hard up to respond to this shit! lol!!
> Craig.

I was just trying to help!

:)



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 15:32:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

>
> Jesus, you guys gotta be hard up to respond to this shit! lol!!
> Craig.




who said we weren't????

d



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 14:36:42
From:
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
Has anyone else looked at the OPs website?

http://www.travesso.com/

Gotta love the line about getting a godshot (with a POD)...I'm done.

Kurt



  
Date: 28 Mar 2007 17:43:30
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

<old_442@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:1175117802.615254.25860@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Has anyone else looked at the OPs website?
>
> http://www.travesso.com/
>
> Gotta love the line about getting a godshot (with a POD)...I'm done.
>
> Kurt
>

Jesus, you guys gotta be hard up to respond to this shit! lol!!
Craig.



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 14:05:53
From: c0ffeegeek
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 28, 1:34 pm, "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 28, 4:14 pm, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote:
>
> > "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam.
>
> > pretty hard.. no.. impossible to take that seriously....
>
> > Randy "lined my socks with underwear" G.
> > http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
> I cannot line the outside; the metal draws too much heat from the
> water that entered. I must come up with an interior liner. I should
> mention that my boiler is .4" thick of aluminum.
> I just now lined it with those paper cup wraps you get from the coffee
> shop. You can get them for 10 cents online, but Starbucks charged me
> a bit more since I was in a hurry. That actually worked quite well.
> The water stayed at 201 for 15 seconds.
> Still, the Styrofoam worked amazingly well until I applied the
> pressure.
> Any ideas for a permanent liner that can control heat loss?

DON'T use the Starbucks' cups!!! They will make your espresso taste
burned and over extracted. Use the "foam in a can" type of
insulation. FILL the boiler with the foam then remove only enough to
allow the boiler to hold 2.3 L. of water. Be SURE to insulate the
heating element with a length of foam pipe insulation so that you
don't waste too much electricity heating the water.

Good luck,
Jerry ( what's that funny smell? ) May



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 13:39:43
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 28, 1:50 pm, "Roger Shoaf" <s...@nospamsyix.com > wrote:
> Why don't you try this. Buy yourself a stainless steel thermos bottle and
> then rig this to be your boiler tank using an emersion heater. This will
> minimize heat loss.
>
> The next link in the heat loss chain would be the lines. These can be
> insulated.
>
> There is going to be heat loss, and some of it is going to come from having
> to heat up the plumbing itself. There is not a lot you can do about that
> other than run enough water through the tubes to warm then to the point that
> the loss is constant. Then it is only a matter of figuring out how much the
> constant rate of loss is and heat the water more to account for the loss.
>
> --
>
> Roger Shoaf
>
> About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
> they come up with this striped stuff."Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1175082156.117259.134940@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam. It kept the water at
> > a perfect 202 degrees for an extended period. However, when I removed
> > the Styrofoam after extracting the coffee it was smashed into a ball.
> > It worked great, but the pressure from the pump destroyed it. I tried
> > to wrap the Styrofoam around the outside of the boiler, but there was
> > too much heat loss from the boiler.
> > My goal: to bring water into a system at 203 degrees, and have it
> > maintain 203 degrees throughout the system without applying anymore
> > heat to the system. This should provide a perfectly flat temperature
> > line.
>
> > What can I line the inside of the boiler with that will:
> > Retain heat.
> > Not be toxic when heated to over 212 degrees.
> > Retain original shape when applying over 150PSI.
>
> > Should I try Polysiloxane, Flurosilcone, or Flouracarbon? For about
> > $800, I can have a piece specifically made to fit -- out of any three
> > materials.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What are the most energy effecient lines that can withstand the
pressure. Thank you, that was my next problem. I had assumed that
the espresso lines already had that covered.



 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 13:34:06
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
On 28, 4:14 pm, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:
> "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam.
>
> pretty hard.. no.. impossible to take that seriously....
>
> Randy "lined my socks with underwear" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com

I cannot line the outside; the metal draws too much heat from the
water that entered. I must come up with an interior liner. I should
mention that my boiler is .4" thick of aluminum.
I just now lined it with those paper cup wraps you get from the coffee
shop. You can get them for 10 cents online, but Starbucks charged me
a bit more since I was in a hurry. That actually worked quite well.
The water stayed at 201 for 15 seconds.
Still, the Styrofoam worked amazingly well until I applied the
pressure.
Any ideas for a permanent liner that can control heat loss?



  
Date: 28 Mar 2007 21:00:11
From: Rob Yokom
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1175114046.563292.89310@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On 28, 4:14 pm, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote:
>> "Travesso" <cpaso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam.
>>
>> pretty hard.. no.. impossible to take that seriously....
>>
>> Randy "lined my socks with underwear" G.
>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
> I cannot line the outside; the metal draws too much heat from the
> water that entered. I must come up with an interior liner. I should
> mention that my boiler is .4" thick of aluminum.
> I just now lined it with those paper cup wraps you get from the coffee
> shop. You can get them for 10 cents online, but Starbucks charged me
> a bit more since I was in a hurry. That actually worked quite well.
> The water stayed at 201 for 15 seconds.
> Still, the Styrofoam worked amazingly well until I applied the
> pressure.
> Any ideas for a permanent liner that can control heat loss?
>

What planet did you come from? Was it Ork? The metal soaking up the heat
actually helps. It gets hot and helps to stabilize the temp in the boiler.
If you want to keep the heat in, you insulate the outside, letting the metal
do its job while keeping the heat from transferring to the ambient air. I
wouldn't even do that, since the heat leaking through the metal helps
prevent temperature overshoot.

The people who design these machines are pretty st. If they thought they
needed to insulate the boiler, they would have.




 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 13:14:26
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote:

>I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam.
>

pretty hard.. no.. impossible to take that seriously....


Randy "lined my socks with underwear" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com





 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 10:50:52
From: Roger Shoaf
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
Why don't you try this. Buy yourself a stainless steel thermos bottle and
then rig this to be your boiler tank using an emersion heater. This will
minimize heat loss.

The next link in the heat loss chain would be the lines. These can be
insulated.

There is going to be heat loss, and some of it is going to come from having
to heat up the plumbing itself. There is not a lot you can do about that
other than run enough water through the tubes to warm then to the point that
the loss is constant. Then it is only a matter of figuring out how much the
constant rate of loss is and heat the water more to account for the loss.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1175082156.117259.134940@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam. It kept the water at
> a perfect 202 degrees for an extended period. However, when I removed
> the Styrofoam after extracting the coffee it was smashed into a ball.
> It worked great, but the pressure from the pump destroyed it. I tried
> to wrap the Styrofoam around the outside of the boiler, but there was
> too much heat loss from the boiler.
> My goal: to bring water into a system at 203 degrees, and have it
> maintain 203 degrees throughout the system without applying anymore
> heat to the system. This should provide a perfectly flat temperature
> line.
>
> What can I line the inside of the boiler with that will:
> Retain heat.
> Not be toxic when heated to over 212 degrees.
> Retain original shape when applying over 150PSI.
>
> Should I try Polysiloxane, Flurosilcone, or Flouracarbon? For about
> $800, I can have a piece specifically made to fit -- out of any three
> materials.
>




 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 11:32:44
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
I wouldn't trust any of those materials to be food safe. If you are really
determined to cut heat loss, maybe you should spray foam the outside of the
boiler - just keep adding thickness (within the clearance limits of your
case. Hell, just mount the boiler in the case and fill up the whole insides
with foam. God help you if you ever have to work on the machine, but it
will be insulated perfectly.

If you are willing to spend $800 then you can build a custom styrofoam lined
case for your machine. If you use enough thickness of styrofoam and seal
around all the openings, at some point it will be insulated enough.

I'm not sure that you can really get a machine to work properly without
adding heat to the system. A lot of systems achieve better stability by
fighting against heat loss, just the way it is easier to remain upright on a
bike when you are applying force against the wind than it is if you are
standing motionless. So the goal of no added heat may not really be
desirable.





"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1175082156.117259.134940@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam. It kept the water at
> a perfect 202 degrees for an extended period. However, when I removed
> the Styrofoam after extracting the coffee it was smashed into a ball.
> It worked great, but the pressure from the pump destroyed it. I tried
> to wrap the Styrofoam around the outside of the boiler, but there was
> too much heat loss from the boiler.
> My goal: to bring water into a system at 203 degrees, and have it
> maintain 203 degrees throughout the system without applying anymore
> heat to the system. This should provide a perfectly flat temperature
> line.
>
> What can I line the inside of the boiler with that will:
> Retain heat.
> Not be toxic when heated to over 212 degrees.
> Retain original shape when applying over 150PSI.
>
> Should I try Polysiloxane, Flurosilcone, or Flouracarbon? For about
> $800, I can have a piece specifically made to fit -- out of any three
> materials.
>
>




 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 08:04:15
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler

you are JOKING, right?

Boilers are insulated on the outside, pal.

NOT the inside [and IF they are LINED on the inside it is NOT for heat
retention.]

$800.00 -- right.

I suspect a troll but that would be insulting to the real trolls.

Dave

www.hitechespresso.com






 
Date: 28 Mar 2007 10:15:54
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Boiler
>I lined the inside of my boiler with Styrofoam. It kept the water at
> a perfect 202 degrees for an extended period. However, when I removed
> the Styrofoam after extracting the coffee it was smashed into a ball.
> It worked great, but the pressure from the pump destroyed it. I tried
> to wrap the Styrofoam around the outside of the boiler, but there was
> too much heat loss from the boiler.
> My goal: to bring water into a system at 203 degrees, and have it
> maintain 203 degrees throughout the system without applying anymore
> heat to the system. This should provide a perfectly flat temperature
> line.
>
> What can I line the inside of the boiler with that will:
> Retain heat.
> Not be toxic when heated to over 212 degrees.
> Retain original shape when applying over 150PSI.
>
> Should I try Polysiloxane, Flurosilcone, or Flouracarbon? For about
> $800, I can have a piece specifically made to fit -- out of any three
> materials.

Uh, why not line the outside and use less expensive materials and bypass the
whole toxicity issue altogether? Dan