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Date: 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Taste test kit
I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.

The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The bitter
is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a drug, fairly
toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)

Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).

The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.
--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/




 
Date: 15 Feb 2007 09:17:32
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Feb 14, 6:28 pm, Andy Schecter
<schec...@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:
> For now, I'm going to try the NoDoz. Cheaper than Bitrex!
>
Hi Andy,

According to Harold McGee, who wrote "On Food and Cooking", recent
research has found that there are actually at least seven different
bitter receptors on the tongue. That presumably accounts for the fact
that some bitter flavors, like those in coffee and beer, are
pleasurable to us, while others cause us to decide something is
poisonous. That would argue for finding some of the bitter flavors in
coffee. Clearly that isn't just caffeine, since decaf also contains
bitter flavors, but if those flavors are coming from other methylated
xanthenes, then the No-Doz is probably a good choice.

Best,
David



  
Date: 15 Feb 2007 12:16:39
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On 15 Feb 2007 09:17:32 -0800, "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com >
wrote:

>
>According to Harold McGee, who wrote "On Food and Cooking", recent
>research has found that there are actually at least seven different
>bitter receptors on the tongue. That presumably accounts for the fact
>that some bitter flavors, like those in coffee and beer, are
>pleasurable to us, while others cause us to decide something is
>poisonous.

The classification into four tastes (or five if your east asian) is
based on folk medicine, 4 humors, 4 elements (add one if you're east
asian), etc.

The Illy chapter says there's about two dozen known taste receptors,
and the list is growing as research goes on. Salt and sweet won't get
upset, since these just react to simple compounds. The others are
keyed to various organic molecule fragments, and react to lipids,
amino acids, alkaloids, and a laundy list of other stuff.

The receptors are combined with smell and processed in the limbic
system, which presumably classifies them into various grades of
noxious or edible. This message in turn goes up to the neocortex,
where the stuff gets recognized.

Then people say "bitter," "savory," "salty," or "deep blackbery
overlaid with cassis, espresso, and graphite."

I write coffee reviews, but I'm not all that sure how much of them are
caused by those two dozen and counting receptors designed to give us
a gut feeling that the risk of swallowing is greater or less than the
reward.


 
Date: 15 Feb 2007 05:24:47
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Feb 14, 9:28 pm, Andy Schecter
<schec...@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:
> Omni...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Denatonium benzoate is ostensibly the most pure bitter substance on
> > the earth. It is used as an aversive flavoring in poisonous
> > substances that might be accidentally or mistakenly ingested. Also
> > used to test the effectiveness of HEPA filters and PPEs. It is sold
> > under the trade name Bitrex. Technical info here
> >http://www.bitrex.com/pages/technical_frameset.htmand much additional
> > info on the same site.
>
> So far I've learned that it's $137.50 to purchase 4 oz of Bitrex, the minimum
> quantity.
>
> I haven't received an MSDS yet. Since it's designed to denature products, ie,
> make them unpalatable, it's not clear how safe it is when deliberately ingested.
>
> Thanks to all the people who made helpful suggestions. The key for me is
> finding a bitter substance that is safe and has few other flavor overtones.
>
> For now, I'm going to try the NoDoz. Cheaper than Bitrex!
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/

NoDoz is probably the beter option, I agree. Four ounces of Bitrex
would probably supply the needs of the SCAA and all its adherents well
into the next century.



 
Date: 15 Feb 2007 04:52:45
From: Natarajan Krishnaswami
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On 2007-02-15, Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:
> Thanks to all the people who made helpful suggestions. The key for me is
> finding a bitter substance that is safe and has few other flavor overtones.
>
> For now, I'm going to try the NoDoz. Cheaper than Bitrex!

Another one that you might check out is the (over the counter) first
generation antihistamine, chlorpheniramine maleate. It's sold as
Chlor-Trimeton and store brand generics; fairly cheap. Very bitter
stuff. (A potential benefit over NoDoz is that the tablets are rarely
coated, and it was quite a bit cheaper, last time I looked.)

If you plan on eating the taste test ingredients, I'd skip this one
(causes drowsiness). If you intend instead to just put them on your
tongue and then spit them out (and probably rinse shortly thereafter
-- this stuff is BITTER), I'd expect this one to be pretty harmless.

(ObDisclaimer: I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice.)


N.


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 20:07:14
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Andy Schecter writes:
> Another interesting possibility, thanks!

You're welcome, but Roger should get full credit. Hop extract often
isn't purely bitter, because of aromatic oils, etc. Roger's suggestion
hinted at the issue and its solution. I merely found a product that's
consistent with his recommendation. Good luck ... if it doesn't work,
blame Roger :-)


Felix



 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:51:22
From: AyTee
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
> Tannin seems to be a good source of "bitter," as found in wine,
coffee,
> and tea. <http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/6/1424> Maybe brew
> up some very strong black tea and boil it to evaporate the oils that
> give it flavor, then filter it. Or use grape seeds, which are the main
> source of bitterness in wine.
>
> --
> Michael D. Sullivan

Tannins are more astringent than bitter. To experience tannin -- more
of a tactile sensation than a taste -- brew some black tea for 20
minutes or more. The raspiness is from the tannins.

Andy



  
Date: 13 Feb 2007 20:00:38
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On 12 Feb 2007 18:51:22 -0800, "AyTee" <at@2walla.com > wrote:


>of a tactile sensation than a taste -- brew some black tea for 20
>minutes or more. The raspiness is from the tannins.


oh, that's my standard brewing method.


--barry "routinely forget i have tea steeping"


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:23:19
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Roger Shoaf suggests:
> What about hops? Seems to me if you went to
> a home brew store, got some hops boiled up [...]

Hop extract is another possibility. This one supposedly helps you
"judge bitterness levels":
http://www.hoptech.com/cart/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16177


Felix



  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 22:41:36
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Felix wrote:
> Hop extract is another possibility. This one supposedly helps you
> "judge bitterness levels":
> http://www.hoptech.com/cart/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16177

Another interesting possibility, thanks!


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:58:04
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
>The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The bitter
>is a little more challenging.
>
>The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.

I heard back from Joseph Rivera.

The SCAA sensory test is sweet, aour, and salt only, and no bitter.
Despite all our brainstorming, there seems to be no readily available
pure bitter to use.

The folks at the 2006 workshop were told the salt is a stand-in for
bitter, and they apparently called it bitter during the test. That's
how the confusion about multiple versions got started.

Joseph sent me the first four pages of the PDF that covers the test
administration. It contains instructions for preparing the level 1, 2
and 3 solutions for sweet, sour and salt.

http://users.ameritech.net/jim_schulman/SCAA-taste-test.pdf

It does not have the instructions for preparing the mixes. I've asked
for these, and I'm guessing it's equal parts of the appropriate base
solutions. If that is the case, then it's clear why part 3 is so hard,
everyhting is at half or third strength.

I'll post to this entry when and if I hear more.


  
Date: 14 Feb 2007 16:52:12
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Taste test kit

"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:on22t252uicvbp8pr3cq19mcatlmvqq38l@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
> <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
Rivera.
>
> The SCAA sensory test is sweet, aour, and salt only, and no bitter.
> Despite all our brainstorming, there seems to be no readily available
> pure bitter to use.

I wouldn't say despite .. more likely "due to lack of SCAA brainstorming,
they couldn't think of anything. But the folks at alt.coffee came up with
quite a few plausible bitters." Given the nature of SCAA, the idea of
using caffeine as a readily available bitter is an especially obvious one.


>
> The folks at the 2006 workshop were told the salt is a stand-in for
> bitter, and they apparently called it bitter during the test. That's
> how the confusion about multiple versions got started.
>
> Joseph sent me the first four pages of the PDF that covers the test
> administration. It contains instructions for preparing the level 1, 2
> and 3 solutions for sweet, sour and salt.
>
> http://users.ameritech.net/jim_schulman/SCAA-taste-test.pdf
>
> It does not have the instructions for preparing the mixes. I've asked
> for these, and I'm guessing it's equal parts of the appropriate base
> solutions. If that is the case, then it's clear why part 3 is so hard,
> everyhting is at half or third strength.
>
> I'll post to this entry when and if I hear more.




  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 22:44:37
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
jim schulman wrote:
> The folks at the 2006 workshop were told the salt is a stand-in for
> bitter, and they apparently called it bitter during the test. That's
> how the confusion about multiple versions got started.

Hard to know whether to laugh or cry at the absurdity of that situation. It
was supposed to be an SCAA TRAINING?????

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 22:17:30
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:44:37 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>jim schulman wrote:
>> The folks at the 2006 workshop were told the salt is a stand-in for
>> bitter, and they apparently called it bitter during the test. That's
>> how the confusion about multiple versions got started.
>
>Hard to know whether to laugh or cry at the absurdity of that situation. It
>was supposed to be an SCAA TRAINING?????

It gets funnier. The set up for the test is a bit about non, average,
and super tasters (setting up a psych test has a lot in common with
setting up a magic trick). Participants are told these vary by the
number of tastebuds on their tongues.

What they aren't told is that most of the variation is in bitter
receptors. The usual super taster test uses a bitterish tasting
compound PROP, to which people have a great deal of innate variation
in sensitivity. Another test is to dye one's tongue blue and count
pappillae.

The final test is to ask about food preferences. A standard question
on these is "Do you like coffee?" Supertasters generally don't. So
maybe the lack of bitter is a good thing for training budding coffee
tasters.


  
Date: 13 Feb 2007 03:42:39
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
hOn Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:58:04 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>Joseph sent me the first four pages of the PDF that covers the test
>administration. It contains instructions for preparing the level 1, 2
>and 3 solutions for sweet, sour and salt.
>

i really wish they'd use something other than dixie cups.




 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 14:35:36
From: bernie
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Andy Schecter wrote:

> Any other suggestions for bitter?

"Patience is bitter, but it's fruit is sweet."

Aristotle 384bc-322bc


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 20:33:07
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
bernie wrote:
> "Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet."

Very nice, bernie.

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 08:46:45
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Denatonium benzoate is ostensibly the most pure bitter substance on
the earth. It is used as an aversive flavoring in poisonous
substances that might be accidentally or mistakenly ingested. Also
used to test the effectiveness of HEPA filters and PPEs. It is sold
under the trade name Bitrex. Technical info here
http://www.bitrex.com/pages/technical_frameset.htm and much additional
info on the same site.



  
Date: 14 Feb 2007 21:28:55
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Denatonium benzoate is ostensibly the most pure bitter substance on
> the earth. It is used as an aversive flavoring in poisonous
> substances that might be accidentally or mistakenly ingested. Also
> used to test the effectiveness of HEPA filters and PPEs. It is sold
> under the trade name Bitrex. Technical info here
> http://www.bitrex.com/pages/technical_frameset.htm and much additional
> info on the same site.

So far I've learned that it's $137.50 to purchase 4 oz of Bitrex, the minimum
quantity.

I haven't received an MSDS yet. Since it's designed to denature products, ie,
make them unpalatable, it's not clear how safe it is when deliberately ingested.

Thanks to all the people who made helpful suggestions. The key for me is
finding a bitter substance that is safe and has few other flavor overtones.

For now, I'm going to try the NoDoz. Cheaper than Bitrex!


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 21:49:14
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Denatonium benzoate is ostensibly the most pure bitter substance on
> the earth. It is used as an aversive flavoring in poisonous
> substances that might be accidentally or mistakenly ingested. Also
> used to test the effectiveness of HEPA filters and PPEs. It is sold
> under the trade name Bitrex. Technical info here
> http://www.bitrex.com/pages/technical_frameset.htm and much additional
> info on the same site.

Fascinating, I got to taste me some of that stuff. Bitter at 50 ppb!


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 20:41:47
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Denatonium benzoate is ostensibly the most pure bitter substance on
> the earth. It is used as an aversive flavoring in poisonous
> substances that might be accidentally or mistakenly ingested. Also
> used to test the effectiveness of HEPA filters and PPEs. It is sold
> under the trade name Bitrex. Technical info here
> http://www.bitrex.com/pages/technical_frameset.htm and much additional
> info on the same site.

Very interesting, thanks for the reference.


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:32:55
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On 12 Feb 2007 08:46:45 -0800, "Omniryx@gmail.com" <Omniryx@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Denatonium benzoate is ostensibly the most pure bitter substance on
>the earth. It is used as an aversive flavoring in poisonous
>substances that might be accidentally or mistakenly ingested. Also
>used to test the effectiveness of HEPA filters and PPEs. It is sold
>under the trade name Bitrex. Technical info here
>http://www.bitrex.com/pages/technical_frameset.htm and much additional
>info on the same site.

This one sounds promising. I got a message from Joseph Rivera (see my
other new post) saying they don't use bitter solutions in the tests,
since it's hard to find a safe over the counter one.


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 17:37:21
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in
news:45cf84ec$0$28122$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to
> properly discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
> The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The
> bitter is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a
> drug, fairly toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr
> Fox?)
>
> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
> wisenheimers).
>
> The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one
> first.

Ok, last suggestion; unprocessed olives are very bitter but I'm not sure if
they're sold retail.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 15:42:07
From: Natarajan Krishnaswami
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On 2007-02-11, Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:
> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).

* Grapefruit pith is pretty bitter, and readily available.

* Bitter melon is (duh :-) ) bitter; Wikipedia says it gets more
bitter as it ripens, but that sounds backwards to me -- I seem to
recall the greener ones' being more bitter, but it's been a few
months since I last prepared it, so I don't remember. You can hedge
this bet, if you e.g. find it at a local Asian grocery store, try to
get both.

* ku ding cha is a Chinese holly relative that is brewed into an
extremey bitter herbal tea. The initial flavor is bitter, but there
is a lingering protein-sweetness, though I suspect it'd be ok.

* mahaleb kernels, the seends of a bitter Middle Eastern cherry.
These are fairly bitter, but they have other pronounced aromas, so
might not be suitable for your intended use.

N.


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 20:44:35
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Natarajan Krishnaswami wrote:
> On 2007-02-11, Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).
>
> * Grapefruit pith is pretty bitter, and readily available.
>
> * Bitter melon is (duh :-) ) bitter; Wikipedia says it gets more
> bitter as it ripens, but that sounds backwards to me -- I seem to
> recall the greener ones' being more bitter, but it's been a few
> months since I last prepared it, so I don't remember. You can hedge
> this bet, if you e.g. find it at a local Asian grocery store, try to
> get both.
>
> * ku ding cha is a Chinese holly relative that is brewed into an
> extremey bitter herbal tea. The initial flavor is bitter, but there
> is a lingering protein-sweetness, though I suspect it'd be ok.
>
> * mahaleb kernels, the seends of a bitter Middle Eastern cherry.
> These are fairly bitter, but they have other pronounced aromas, so
> might not be suitable for your intended use.

Thank you for the interesting suggestions. I'm going to try the NoDoz, and
perhaps the Bitrex if I can get some.
.


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:34:21
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
How about choke cherries? My sister has these on her farm. I don't know
the botanical name of these bushes, but this is what they are called
locally.

"Natarajan Krishnaswami" <nxk3@cwru.edu > wrote in message
news:slrnet12mf.7hv.nxk3@iefbr14.dyndns.org...
> On 2007-02-11, Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
>> wisenheimers).
>
> * mahaleb kernels, the seends of a bitter Middle Eastern cherry.
> These are fairly bitter, but they have other pronounced aromas, so
> might not be suitable for your intended use.
>
> N.




   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 20:43:35
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Harry Moos wrote:
> How about choke cherries? My sister has these on her farm. I don't know
> the botanical name of these bushes, but this is what they are called
> locally.

Prunus virginiana. I've got some growing in my backyard. IIRC, more puckery
and astringent than bitter, but it's been a while since I ate 'em! :-)


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 23:32:35
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Feb 11, 8:58 pm, Andy Schecter
<schec...@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:
>
> Hmmm...sounds like the lactic acid has a bad rep. IIRC, it's sour with a mild
> dairy-like flavor, but not really bitter.
>

Looks promising, appears they're closing in - paragraph [0053].
Although, coaxing a suitable non-synthetic proxy from the paper may
prove daunting.

http://www.flexnews.com/pages/6424/Apple/Banana/Beverages/Brazil/Caffeine/Chemical/Chocolate/Cocoa/CODEX/Coffee/processes_isolating_bitter_quinides_use_food_beverage_products.html



 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 07:13:08
From: Michael D. Sullivan
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On 2/11/2007 4:04 PM, Andy Schecter wrote:
> I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to
> properly discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
> The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The
> bitter is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a
> drug, fairly toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
> wisenheimers).
>
> The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.

Tannin seems to be a good source of "bitter," as found in wine, coffee,
and tea. <http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/6/1424 > Maybe brew
up some very strong black tea and boil it to evaporate the oils that
give it flavor, then filter it. Or use grape seeds, which are the main
source of bitterness in wine.

--
Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)
(To reply, change example.invalid to com in the address.)


 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:28:49
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Howdy Andy!
Here's where my infallible memory probably lets me down yet again; there is
a fruit used in Indian cuisine called bitter fruit (AKA palmyrah). I've no
idea if it's available near you. Then there's bitter cassava (slightly toxic
if raw) & lactic acid, both long known for their bitter characteristics.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45cf84ec$0$28122$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
> The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The
> bitter is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a
> drug, fairly toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
> wisenheimers).
>
> The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/




  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:58:55
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Robert Harmon wrote:
> Howdy Andy!

Howdy Robert!

> there's bitter cassava (slightly toxic
> if raw) & lactic acid, both long known for their bitter characteristics.

Hmmm...sounds like the lactic acid has a bad rep. IIRC, it's sour with a mild
dairy-like flavor, but not really bitter.


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 23:34:27
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Acids sour, bases bitter.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"Andy Schecter" wrote in message
news:45cfc9dc$0$24742$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Robert Harmon wrote:
>> Howdy Andy!
>
> Howdy Robert!
>
>> there's bitter cassava (slightly toxic if raw) & lactic acid, both long
>> known for their bitter characteristics.
>
> Hmmm...sounds like the lactic acid has a bad rep. IIRC, it's sour with a
> mild dairy-like flavor, but not really bitter.




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:02:13
From: John Frank
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
There's a vegetable that I learned to like while in the Philippines
with the Peace Corps called Ampalaya, or Bitter Melon. Check Wikipedia
for more information, it may just serve your purpose and it's not
dangerous--just the opposite. I know that it's available here in Los
Angeles, I can tell you where I've found it if you're interested. And
when you're finished using it for tasting purposes, my wife can give
you a recipe that will allow you to enjoy the leftovers with dinner.



  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:41:26
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
John Frank wrote:
> There's a vegetable that I learned to like while in the Philippines
> with the Peace Corps called Ampalaya, or Bitter Melon. Check Wikipedia
> for more information, it may just serve your purpose and it's not
> dangerous--just the opposite. I know that it's available here in Los
> Angeles, I can tell you where I've found it if you're interested. And
> when you're finished using it for tasting purposes, my wife can give
> you a recipe that will allow you to enjoy the leftovers with dinner.

Interesting, John. I've heard of bitter melon, but I've never seen it here in
NY State.


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 15:25:41
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Usually it's available at any Asian grocery store. In an Indian ket its
labeled as "karela" - it looks like a wrinkled cucumber. Assuming you've
been in an Asian ket, you've probably seen it without knowing what is was
since it's often labeled with a non-English name. The seeds and pulp are
more bitter than the green shell, so use them for your experiments and save
the green part for a stir fry.

But I think No-Doz would be a lot easier to start with.


"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45cfc5c3$0$16693$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> John Frank wrote:
>> There's a vegetable that I learned to like while in the Philippines
>> with the Peace Corps called Ampalaya, or Bitter Melon. Check Wikipedia
>> for more information, it may just serve your purpose and it's not
>> dangerous--just the opposite. I know that it's available here in Los
>> Angeles, I can tell you where I've found it if you're interested. And
>> when you're finished using it for tasting purposes, my wife can give
>> you a recipe that will allow you to enjoy the leftovers with dinner.
>
> Interesting, John. I've heard of bitter melon, but I've never seen it here
> in NY State.
>
>
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/




   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 02:59:32
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:41:26 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>John Frank wrote:
>> There's a vegetable that I learned to like while in the Philippines
>> with the Peace Corps called Ampalaya, or Bitter Melon. Check Wikipedia
>> for more information, it may just serve your purpose and it's not
>> dangerous--just the opposite. I know that it's available here in Los
>> Angeles, I can tell you where I've found it if you're interested. And
>> when you're finished using it for tasting purposes, my wife can give
>> you a recipe that will allow you to enjoy the leftovers with dinner.
>
>Interesting, John. I've heard of bitter melon, but I've never seen it here in
>NY State.

It's in all the Asian kets in L.A. I'd give Wegman's a try in your
neck of the woods.

shall


 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 16:29:21
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>
>Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).
>
NoDoz tablets?


Randy "Zzzzzzzzz" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:56:17
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Randy G. wrote:
> NoDoz tablets?

Can you dissolve them in water to form a clear, bitter caffeine solution?
Perhaps after filtering out the tablet fillers?

It would keep people awake and alert during the taste testing. :)
--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:24:35
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:56:17 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>Randy G. wrote:
>> NoDoz tablets?
>
>Can you dissolve them in water to form a clear, bitter caffeine solution?
>Perhaps after filtering out the tablet fillers?
>

hhhmmm.... that reminds me: the caffeinated dust that collects in
the roaster exhaust duct is pretty darned bitter.


    
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:42:08
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> hhhmmm.... that reminds me: the caffeinated dust that collects in
> the roaster exhaust duct is pretty darned bitter.

Since when do you lick your roaster exhaust duct?
--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


     
Date: 12 Feb 2007 08:47:04
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>Barry Jarrett wrote:
>> hhhmmm.... that reminds me: the caffeinated dust that collects in
>> the roaster exhaust duct is pretty darned bitter.
>
>Since when do you lick your roaster exhaust duct?
>

...and people made fun of me for tasting "Grindz" for my review...
;-)


Sure, I may have tasted Grindz, but...
Randy
"..at least my mother isn't on the cover of 'Crack Whore' magazine!"
G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



;-)


     
Date: 12 Feb 2007 14:46:51
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
since he got that great big space to roast in, with easy access to the
ducting :)

> Barry Jarrett wrote:
>> hhhmmm.... that reminds me: the caffeinated dust that collects in
>> the roaster exhaust duct is pretty darned bitter.
>
> Since when do you lick your roaster exhaust duct?
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:26:17
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).

Gentian root.

I've been doing some searching. The hebal types who still believe in
the four elements (or 5 in the chinese variant) swear by Gentian as a
pure bitter, which in this approach is necessary for balancing one's
body. (substitute "taste" whenever they use health, and we may be on
to something)

Here's a recipe from 1791:

* 1 ounce dried gentian root
* 1 ounce fresh lemon peel
* 0.2 ounces dried orange peel

"Simmer this mixture for an hour or two in three quarters of a pint of
boiling water [to] make a very elegant bitter."

Extracts of celery root are also mentioned as pure bitters.

However, I'd rather wait for something more up to date.


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:10:36
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:26:17 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
><schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).
>
>Gentian root.
>
>I've been doing some searching. The hebal types ....

Great. Now you'll have Jack Denver all over you.

shall


   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:19:38
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 01:10:36 GMT, shall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>>I've been doing some searching. The hebal types ....
>
>Great. Now you'll have Jack Denver all over you.

Nah, but this one may get Andy mad at me.

Actually, it's kind of velous how some bits of perfectly useful
knowledge, e.g. "what's a pure bitter flavor," end up being only known
to fringe groups (pace Andy, I'm talking about followers of Galen
here)


    
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:04:54
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
jim schulman wrote:
> I'm talking about followers of Galen
> here)

Galen was one dude ahead of his time. Wikipedia says he did cataract removal
surgery, nearly 2000 years ago! Unfortunately, "the slightest slip [of his
surgical needle] could cause permanent blindness."

No mention whether his malpractice insurance rates would go up.
--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:54:38
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
jim schulman wrote:
> Gentian root.
<snip >
> However, I'd rather wait for something more up to date.

Gentian sounds interesting, but as you imply, hopefully there's something
safer and more reliable.
--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:55:38
From: Roger Shoaf
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
What about hops? Seems to me if you went to a home brew store, got some
hops boiled up some strong tea and evaporated off the water you would have
some mighty bitter white powder left over.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45cfbacb$0$16741$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> jim schulman wrote:
> > Gentian root.
> <snip>
> > However, I'd rather wait for something more up to date.
>
> Gentian sounds interesting, but as you imply, hopefully there's something
> safer and more reliable.
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/




   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:03:03
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:54:38 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>> However, I'd rather wait for something more up to date.
>
>Gentian sounds interesting, but as you imply, hopefully there's something
>safer and more reliable.

As usual, everything is internet orderable. 1 ounce of colorless
gentian extract on the way. I'll report if it's useful.

In any case, according to Galen, my digestion will be be much
improved.

More useless info: "Moxie," a softdrink in contention with Coke back
in the 20s, uses gentian as a flavor.


    
Date: 21 Feb 2007 18:48:36
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:03:03 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>>Gentian sounds interesting, but as you imply, hopefully there's something
>>safer and more reliable.
>
>As usual, everything is internet orderable. 1 ounce of colorless
>gentian extract on the way. I'll report if it's useful.

I just got a bottle today. At ten drops per 250mL (or cup), it tastes
pretty much like a standard Campari & soda without the fizz and
roughly 2/3rds the strength; gentian is obviously the main ingredient
for many of the European digestifs

At 2.5 drops (diluted to 1/4), there was a slightly perceptible
bitterness; just slightly less strong than the seltzer waters with a
twist of some flavor added. At 1.25 drops (diluted to an 1/8th), the
water had an interesting taste edge, but I wouldn't have been able to
reliably distinguish it from an acidic edge of the same strength

This is a gentle and pleasant bright-bitter flavor, like a mellowed
out lemon-peel, and in a taste test it would be a killer, since the
nip of it would be easily confused with citric acid at low levels.

It's certainly perfectly suitable and pleasing for private taste
training. For testing, it has a slight brown cast, that is visible at
10 drops per cup, but disappears at around 5. The taste is a little to
lingering, and requires rinsing between tries. The extract is
dissolved in alcohol, which may disqualify it as well.


    
Date: 11 Feb 2007 22:42:24
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
In <3givs21dpii2te1qts69iarbct508p16mm@4ax.com >, on Sun, 11 Feb 2007
20:03:03 -0600, jim schulman wrote:

> As usual, everything is internet orderable. 1 ounce of colorless
> gentian extract on the way. I'll report if it's useful.
>
> In any case, according to Galen, my digestion will be be much
> improved.
>
> More useless info: "Moxie," a softdrink in contention with Coke back
> in the 20s, uses gentian as a flavor.

Just to be clear, Moxie is still available today on
the east coast. You can't get it in MN, for instance
(so I'd assume not in IL either), but it's certainly
available here (i.e., my pantry ;-).



     
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:42:46
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:42:24 -0500, Steve Ackman
<steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com > wrote:

>> More useless info: "Moxie," a softdrink in contention with Coke back
>> in the 20s, uses gentian as a flavor.
>
> Just to be clear, Moxie is still available today on
>the east coast. You can't get it in MN, for instance
>(so I'd assume not in IL either), but it's certainly
>available here (i.e., my pantry ;-).

I saw the piece about soft drinks on the history channel. They did say
a few oddballs were still drinking it ;-)

All the bitterish soft drinks, e.g ginger ale, took a big hit at the
end of the prohibition. I guess hops trumps roots (and corn syrup
trumps it all)


 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 23:56:07
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Taste test kit

"Andy Schecter" wrote in message
Some kits use quinine, but it's a drug, fairly
> toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
> Any other suggestions for bitter?

'quinine' as in tonic water? BlueVal is a food writer and has some good
ideas on taste http://tinyurl.com/38pfps





 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 10:40:54
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Hi Andy,

I was planning to start with the scent kit (that SCAA also sells) and their
pricing is about the same as I am getting it from the localish
distributor...

I figured it was just as easy to start with something standard.

You can also order the components individually for those kits.

Brent


>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
> The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The
> bitter is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a
> drug, fairly toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
> wisenheimers).
>
> The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 16:39:11
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Try Angostura bitters, available in most superkets...al

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
>The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The bitter
>is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a drug, fairly
>toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
>Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).
>
>The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.



  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:17:22
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
sprsso wrote:
> Try Angostura bitters, available in most superkets...al

Thanks, al. I thought of that, and I will try Angostura if I can't find an
alternative. But as Alan says, it should be possible to obtain a purer bitter
flavor.

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:34:12
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
NoDoz. Caffeine is <bitter >!


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




    
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:36:01
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
And see http://www.coffeeco.com.au/altcof/altcoffeepage12.html .


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




     
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:54:39
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
> And see http://www.coffeeco.com.au/altcof/altcoffeepage12.html .

Very good, Alan, I'll try the NoDoz. Haven't popped one since college. :)



--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:54:45
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Taste test kit

"sprsso" <acritzer@cfl.rr.com > wrote in message
news:j63vs2lmpecjc42l7r5p6176q2nhljs994@4ax.com...
> Try Angostura bitters, available in most superkets...al

The problem with Angostura Bitters, in spite of its name, is that it is
nowhere near what could be called the quintessence of bitterness ---- it's
got too many other overtones and undertones, many of which are actually
quite sweet . . .
>
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
> <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>>
>>The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The
>>bitter
>>is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a drug,
>>fairly
>>toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>>
>>Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
>>wisenheimers).
>>
>>The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.
>




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:34:06
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
>The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The bitter
>is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a drug, fairly
>toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
>Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you wisenheimers).
>
>The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.

I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
very helpful.

shall "Nez du Cafe strikeout king"


  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 00:41:13
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:34:06 GMT, shall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
>very helpful.
>

iirc, joseph leaves bitter out of the sensory skills test because of
the difficulty in finding/using safe non-pharmiceutical strictly
bitter tasting compounds.



   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:04:08
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:41:13 GMT, Barry Jarrett
<barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:

>>I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
> >very helpful.
> >
>
>iirc, joseph leaves bitter out of the sensory skills test because of
>the difficulty in finding/using safe non-pharmiceutical strictly
>bitter tasting compounds.

I've read and heard about two versions of the sensory skills test:

One sour, sweet, and salt (as described in the cupper handbook) and
for the USBC cert two years ago:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/showreports/03-16-2005

The other sour, sweet, and bitter; for instance as described by
participants in last year's USBC judges' certification:
http://www.home-barista.com/scaa-sensory-skills-test.html

So what gives?


    
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:20:33
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:04:08 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>I've read and heard about two versions of the sensory skills test:
>
>One sour, sweet, and salt (as described in the cupper handbook) and
>for the USBC cert two years ago:
>http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/showreports/03-16-2005
>
>The other sour, sweet, and bitter; for instance as described by
>participants in last year's USBC judges' certification:
>http://www.home-barista.com/scaa-sensory-skills-test.html
>
>So what gives?


i did the former (iirc, i sat next to k), so i'm not sure about the
latter (i didn't have to take it as i was cert'd for 2 years).

i wonder which version will appear at long beach (if they even do the
sens-skills test anymore for USBC cert)



   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:57:22
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> iirc, joseph leaves bitter out of the sensory skills test because of
> the difficulty in finding/using safe non-pharmiceutical strictly
> bitter tasting compounds.

That would be a pity. I was looking forward to the quinine, because I hear
there are lots of mosquitoes in Long Beach.


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


    
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:08:12
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:57:22 -0500, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:

>Barry Jarrett wrote:
>> iirc, joseph leaves bitter out of the sensory skills test because of
>> the difficulty in finding/using safe non-pharmiceutical strictly
>> bitter tasting compounds.
>
>That would be a pity. I was looking forward to the quinine, because I hear
>there are lots of mosquitoes in Long Beach.

This is actually quite true. But only Long Beach, Long Island.

shall "used to live in the next town"


     
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:39:57
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
shall wrote:
> This is actually quite true. But only Long Beach, Long Island.

Touch=E9, shall. :-)

--=20


-Andy S. (had to cut and paste the "=E9" from "Ren=E9" to get the accent =
k.=20
Thanks, Ren=E9!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


      
Date: 13 Feb 2007 19:48:46
From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Ren=E9_van_Sint_Annaland?=
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
In article <45cfc56a$0$16693$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,=20
schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com says...

Andy S. (had to cut and paste the "=E9" from "Ren=E9" to get the accent=20
k.=20
Thanks, Ren=E9!)

You are welcome. Ever tried Campari? That is bitter.
--=20
Ren=E9 van Sint Annaland
www.justespresso.com


      
Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:48:10
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Taste test kit

"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45cfc56a$0$16693$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>-Andy S. (had to cut and paste the "é" from "René" to get the accent k.
>Thanks, René!)

fwiw: é is alt-0233 on windows




  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:44:13
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:34:06 GMT, shall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
><schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
>very helpful.
>
If one can reach him; I've had a few bounced mails so far.


   
Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:43:56
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Taste test kit

"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:1havs21t6ltsgk0lbjre37tqs2shepaat1@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:34:06 GMT, shall
> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
> ><schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
> >very helpful.
> >
> If one can reach him; I've had a few bounced mails so far.

I received a response from him yesterday within a half hour of writing to
forums@coffeechemistry.com
so maybe that's an alternate route




   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:54:24
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Taste test kit

"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:1havs21t6ltsgk0lbjre37tqs2shepaat1@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:34:06 GMT, shall
> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:04:45 -0500, Andy Schecter
>><schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
>>very helpful.
>>
> If one can reach him; I've had a few bounced mails so far.


When I had to contact him regarding something on Jan 30th, I was told by
either ia Curiel or Tina Landavazo that he was in Costa Rica @ the
time, but he still emailed me! {:-)
Craig.



    
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:06:14
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Craig Andrews wrote:
> When I had to contact him regarding something on Jan 30th, I was told by
> either ia Curiel or Tina Landavazo that he was in Costa Rica @ the
> time, but he still emailed me! {:-)

Yup, he told me he went down there to check on the quality of the bitter melon
crop.

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:09:28
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
shall wrote:
> I'd call up Joseph Rivera at SCAA for a cheap, safe alternative. He's
> very helpful.

Muchas gracias.

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 14:33:35
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45cf84ec$0$28122$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I want to put together a simple taste test kit to train myself to properly
>discern varying levels of sweet, sour, salty and bitter.
>
> The first three are easy to find (sugar, citric acid, table salt). The
> bitter is a little more challenging. Some kits use quinine, but it's a
> drug, fairly toxic when overdosed, and my require a prescription (Dr Fox?)
>
> Any other suggestions for bitter? (Besides Starbucks coffee, you
> wisenheimers).
>
> The SCAA has some pricey kits, but I'd like to try a homemade one first.
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/

I have some strychnine I can lend you.

ken




  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:13:21
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
Ken Fox wrote:
> I have some strychnine I can lend you.

Long winter getting to you, Ken?

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:44:39
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Taste test kit
"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45cfa30f$0$24745$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Ken Fox wrote:
>> I have some strychnine I can lend you.
>
> Long winter getting to you, Ken?
>
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/

just trying to help:-)