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Date: 04 Jun 2007 07:14:29
From: Lavarock
Subject: That was quick
I have Google notify me of news items containing certain phrases like
"Kona Coffee".

The second item below popped up. Then a quick search showed the former.

It appears that starting a coffee shop may be easy, but running it may
be a different story. Could this have been part of a chain?

---
November 02, 2005
Kona Coast Coffee opens in Rochester

The North Broadway/37th Street area saw another opening last week with
Kona Coast Coffee and Ice Cream, a 28-seat cafe located next to Dish It
Up in Chateau Center.

Kona Coast’s menu includes coffee and espresso drinks, smoothies,
biscotti and 12 flavors of super-premium Chocolate Shoppe ice cream.

Owner Jing Hoyer said she plans to keep four to six staple ice cream
flavors while rotating others in to keep the selection fresh.

<<Then, 7 months later… >>

Robert J. Hoyer and Jing B. Hoyer, also known as Jing X. Bian, Jing Xia
Hoyer, Bian Jing-Xia, Jing Bian Hoyer, Jing Xia Bian, Jing X. Hoyer,
formerly doing business as Kona Coast Coffee & Ice Cream, doing business
as Kona Coast, Rochester; filed May 30, 07-31946; Chap. 7; assets,
$213,137; liabilities, $943,081.

--

They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!




 
Date: 08 Jun 2007 06:37:10
From: shane
Subject: Re: That was quick
On Jun 7, 4:33 pm, r...@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
>


 
Date: 07 Jun 2007 06:12:37
From: shane
Subject: Re: That was quick
On Jun 5, 11:23 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Unfortunately, this is the way that most food service startups end more
> often than not. I'm not sure that an ice cream shop in Rochester,MN where
> there's only 2 months a year of warm weather was really the best idea. The
> big disparity between assets and liabilities could include lots of things
> that were not "hard" debt - future rent obligations, penalties and fees
> that the bank tacked onto their debt when things went sour, etc. But I'm
> sure there were plenty of suppliers, etc. who were screwed and who won't see
> a cent. Sometimes operations like this are a scam where you run up the bills
> and pocket as much as possible and then file for bankruptcy, but often they
> represent heartache and broken dreams all around.
>

As far as the warm weather issue. I live north of Rochester, MN, where
it is usually colder. We have a couple of succesful ice cream shops.
One is an independant stand in an old gas station, no inside seating
at all. They must do ok, as they have been around for at least 10
years. They are seasonal and only open in the summer. If it is warm,
there is always a line outside. Quality product also helps, they have
amazingly good malts, pricey but worth it.
A cold-stone creamery opened up last year in a location that I
have thought would be a good place for an ice-cream shop. They seem to
be doing ok.

Shane



  
Date: 08 Jun 2007 18:25:17
From: Lavarock
Subject: Re: That was quick
shane wrote:
>
> As far as the warm weather issue. I live north of Rochester, MN, where
> it is usually colder. We have a couple of succesful ice cream shops.
> One is an independant stand in an old gas station, no inside seating
> at all. They must do ok, as they have been around for at least 10
> years. They are seasonal and only open in the summer. If it is warm,
> there is always a line outside. Quality product also helps, they have
> amazingly good malts, pricey but worth it.
> A cold-stone creamery opened up last year in a location that I
> have thought would be a good place for an ice-cream shop. They seem to
> be doing ok.
>
> Shane
>

While not gourmet, here in warm Kailua-Kona Hawaii there was a dairy
Queen with outside seating next to the volleyball courts where every
night, partially clothed men and women would get all sweaty and people
would congregate for hours just to watch.

That dairy Queen just closed.

Then again, we have 2 Jamba Juice and 2 Starbucks within sight of each
other in a town of a very few streets.

Go figure.

--

They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!


  
Date: 07 Jun 2007 21:33:43
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: That was quick


  
Date: 07 Jun 2007 13:13:54
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: That was quick
When I was growing up in NJ there were a lot of ice cream places that opened
only in the summer (and not only at the shore). But I think modern rent,
taxes, etc. don't allow many business to remain open 2 months a year and
still be profitable. I have to wonder how much ice cream people crave in
Rochester in February when it's 40 below - it wouldn't be the first thing I
would think of.



"shane" <shane.olson@juno.com > wrote in message
news:1181221957.104132.260200@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 5, 11:23 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, this is the way that most food service startups end more
>> often than not. I'm not sure that an ice cream shop in Rochester,MN
>> where
>> there's only 2 months a year of warm weather was really the best idea.
>> The
>> big disparity between assets and liabilities could include lots of things
>> that were not "hard" debt - future rent obligations, penalties and fees
>> that the bank tacked onto their debt when things went sour, etc. But I'm
>> sure there were plenty of suppliers, etc. who were screwed and who won't
>> see
>> a cent. Sometimes operations like this are a scam where you run up the
>> bills
>> and pocket as much as possible and then file for bankruptcy, but often
>> they
>> represent heartache and broken dreams all around.
>>
>
> As far as the warm weather issue. I live north of Rochester, MN, where
> it is usually colder. We have a couple of succesful ice cream shops.
> One is an independant stand in an old gas station, no inside seating
> at all. They must do ok, as they have been around for at least 10
> years. They are seasonal and only open in the summer. If it is warm,
> there is always a line outside. Quality product also helps, they have
> amazingly good malts, pricey but worth it.
> A cold-stone creamery opened up last year in a location that I
> have thought would be a good place for an ice-cream shop. They seem to
> be doing ok.
>
> Shane
>




   
Date: 08 Jun 2007 18:37:17
From: Lavarock
Subject: Re: That was quick
Jack Denver wrote:
> When I was growing up in NJ there were a lot of ice cream places that opened
> only in the summer (and not only at the shore). But I think modern rent,
> taxes, etc. don't allow many business to remain open 2 months a year and
> still be profitable. I have to wonder how much ice cream people crave in
> Rochester in February when it's 40 below - it wouldn't be the first thing I
> would think of.
>

The Carvell(sp) in New Brunswick was always open and did a good
business. They were known for soft-serve and such other items as Fudgie
the Whale, Hug-Me Bear, and Cookie Puss.

At "the shore" (officially known as "DOWN the SHORE") always had the
boardwalk custard shops and taffy stores. Of course, they had a captive
audience.

Even places like Dairy Queen didn't need 40 different kinds of ice
cream. We lined up for vanilla ice cream in a cone, dipped in chocolate,
butterscotch or cherry flavored hard shell.

Of course, back then, a cup of coffee was a cup of coffee.
--

They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!


 
Date: 05 Jun 2007 12:23:50
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: That was quick
Unfortunately, this is the way that most food service startups end more
often than not. I'm not sure that an ice cream shop in Rochester,MN where
there's only 2 months a year of warm weather was really the best idea. The
big disparity between assets and liabilities could include lots of things
that were not "hard" debt - future rent obligations, penalties and fees
that the bank tacked onto their debt when things went sour, etc. But I'm
sure there were plenty of suppliers, etc. who were screwed and who won't see
a cent. Sometimes operations like this are a scam where you run up the bills
and pocket as much as possible and then file for bankruptcy, but often they
represent heartache and broken dreams all around.



"Lavarock" <lavarock1@myhawaiiansite.com > wrote in message
news:pZO8i.13374$296.13220@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I have Google notify me of news items containing certain phrases like "Kona
>Coffee".
>
> The second item below popped up. Then a quick search showed the former.
>
> It appears that starting a coffee shop may be easy, but running it may be
> a different story. Could this have been part of a chain?
>
> ---
> November 02, 2005
> Kona Coast Coffee opens in Rochester
>
> The North Broadway/37th Street area saw another opening last week with
> Kona Coast Coffee and Ice Cream, a 28-seat cafe located next to Dish It Up
> in Chateau Center.
>
> Kona Coast’s menu includes coffee and espresso drinks, smoothies, biscotti
> and 12 flavors of super-premium Chocolate Shoppe ice cream.
>
> Owner Jing Hoyer said she plans to keep four to six staple ice cream
> flavors while rotating others in to keep the selection fresh.
>
> <<Then, 7 months later…>>
>
> Robert J. Hoyer and Jing B. Hoyer, also known as Jing X. Bian, Jing Xia
> Hoyer, Bian Jing-Xia, Jing Bian Hoyer, Jing Xia Bian, Jing X. Hoyer,
> formerly doing business as Kona Coast Coffee & Ice Cream, doing business
> as Kona Coast, Rochester; filed May 30, 07-31946; Chap. 7; assets,
> $213,137; liabilities, $943,081.
>
> --
>
> They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!




  
Date: 06 Jun 2007 22:34:56
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: That was quick
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:



   
Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:53:41
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: That was quick
Even on a gastroenterologist's salary, if your spouse's hobby business comes
up $700,000 short in bankruptcy and you've co-signed the note, that's gotta
hurt. Maybe it would have been better if she had taken up bridge or
volunteered at the hospital? Even hang out at the mall and gone shopping -
$700,000 gets you a lot of shoes.


That was an awfully good guess though - there is a Robert Hoyer who is an
internist in Rochester.
http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Robert-Hoyer-MD-86D9C4E8.cfm

I would say in this case it WAS a terrible idea judging by the results, or
maybe a good idea terribly executed.




"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:466730ae.10106312@localhost...
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>


    
Date: 07 Jun 2007 09:27:05
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: That was quick
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:



     
Date: 07 Jun 2007 13:23:16
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: That was quick

"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:4667c8ef.49083127@localhost...
> >
> I've been in the mall in Rochester, I'm not sure there's $700K worth of
> stuff I'd want to buy there.

I'm not sure there's $700k of stuff in ANY mall that I'd want to buy - I'm
just not that into mall shopping.

In that case she could have used the $700k to buy the mall.


>
> There is something ironic about opening a Hawaii-named coffee shop in
> Rochester, since Rochester is kind of the 'bizarro Hawaii': a destination
> resort for the seriously ill in a place with a notoriously bad climate.

Would you rather that she had named it "#1 Coffee Shop in Frozen Wasteland
catering to the Relatives of and those who serve the Seriously Ill "? Then
she would have gone broke even quicker. What if she had named her shop for
something related to Moby Dick instead? Originally Starbucks was going to
be " Pequod" but that was rejected because it had the sound "Pee" in it
which is not a good association for a shop serving a diuretic drink.










      
Date: 08 Jun 2007 18:43:52
From: Lavarock
Subject: Re: That was quick
Jack Denver wrote:

> Would you rather that she had named it "#1 Coffee Shop in Frozen Wasteland
> catering to the Relatives of and those who serve the Seriously Ill "?

I went to a place called Schlotzsky's Deli in Atlanta once. I didn't go
back when I found that a place calling itself a DELI had not one corned
beef sandwich or rye bread... It appears they now have those on the menu
but back then this store did not.

You can bring them in with a neat name, but if the product is not great,
don't expect repeat business.

--

They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!


      
Date: 07 Jun 2007 21:41:06
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: That was quick


 
Date: 04 Jun 2007 07:16:12
From: Lavarock
Subject: Re: That was quick
Lavarock wrote:
> I have Google notify me of news items containing certain phrases like
> "Kona Coffee".
>
> The second item below popped up. Then a quick search showed the former.
>
> It appears that starting a coffee shop may be easy, but running it may
> be a different story. Could this have been part of a chain?
>
> ---
> November 02, 2005
> Kona Coast Coffee opens in Rochester
>
> The North Broadway/37th Street area saw another opening last week with
> Kona Coast Coffee and Ice Cream, a 28-seat cafe located next to Dish It
> Up in Chateau Center.
>
> Kona Coast’s menu includes coffee and espresso drinks, smoothies,
> biscotti and 12 flavors of super-premium Chocolate Shoppe ice cream.
>
> Owner Jing Hoyer said she plans to keep four to six staple ice cream
> flavors while rotating others in to keep the selection fresh.
>
> <<Then, 7 months later…>>
>
> Robert J. Hoyer and Jing B. Hoyer, also known as Jing X. Bian, Jing Xia
> Hoyer, Bian Jing-Xia, Jing Bian Hoyer, Jing Xia Bian, Jing X. Hoyer,
> formerly doing business as Kona Coast Coffee & Ice Cream, doing business
> as Kona Coast, Rochester; filed May 30, 07-31946; Chap. 7; assets,
> $213,137; liabilities, $943,081.
>

Sorry, noted just after I sent this, that it was a longer period than I
thought. I stand corrected.

--

They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!


  
Date: 04 Jun 2007 17:42:44
From: Danny
Subject: Re: That was quick
Lavarock wrote:
-snip-
> Sorry, noted just after I sent this, that it was a longer period than I
> thought. I stand corrected.
>

If I went bust, I couldn't possibly end up owing nearly $1m, the bank
wouldn't let me.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



   
Date: 04 Jun 2007 18:29:52
From: Lavarock
Subject: Re: That was quick
Danny wrote:
> Lavarock wrote:
> -snip-
>> Sorry, noted just after I sent this, that it was a longer period than
>> I thought. I stand corrected.
>>
>
> If I went bust, I couldn't possibly end up owing nearly $1m, the bank
> wouldn't let me.
>
>

Yes, there could be more to the story than just one shop and a lot of
debt, as it may be the latest store in a group that went bust.

At first I thought it was only open a few months, then as I pressed
send, redid the math.

In any event, I also noted a number of DBA's and aliases.

--

They said that someone has to live in Hawaii and I raised my hand first!


    
Date: 04 Jun 2007 20:32:48
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: That was quick