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Date: 29 Jan 2007 08:34:48
From: yoyep
Subject: Thoughts for clueless
Hi, just joined the group and hoped maybe someone with in the know
could offer some assistance. I have a good friend who I often visit
and he has a Silvia with some fancy grinder - more $ than the Silvia.
Anyway he decked out the Silvia I gather with a PID I think its
called.

So what's the beef, well the truth is I seem to enjoy my Moka more
than almost any espresso from his machine or any other, except for
maybe a couple I have had in the last year- but these were
rekable.

What I like more about the moka is that I drink priily milk based
drinks- even a little with a dollop of half/half and the taste seems
more bodied and richer. No its not as smooth as some of the espresso
I have had, and rarely has any crema. Also, I haven't even ground my
beans most of the time and just buy illy for the moka.

So - what I wonder is..my taste warped, does anyone else find this to
be the case? Oh, yeah I'm on a fixed income and I have tried the
Nespresso pods recently and it had nice smooth crema - but the taste
no matter which pod I tried was flat.

I'm now in need of a frother - only steam driven please, and I'm not
sure if its taste or others take on their espresso, albeit known for
their fine cups, if I should plunk for a espresso maker/ and grinder
and work it myself in the hopes of finding an even better cup of latte
or utter drinks.

Thanks advance.
Abbie





 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 08:34:17
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Cheers. Whoa, it is day. I must have fallen asleep at the
keyboard. :)

On Jan 30, 8:31 am, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I'll take a walk over to Amazon later today and see what I can find -
> thank you.



 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 05:31:53
From: yoyep
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
I'll take a walk over to Amazon later today and see what I can find -
thank you.

On Jan 30, 11:34 am, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net > wrote:
> Never could manage the accent, though do admire proper pronunciation.
> Just got back from running into a Northsea lass from near Lancaster/
> Manchester area, complaining about the cold weather her in Florida, of
> all things. A quick chitterchatter about friendly auspices among
> peoople the world over while exchanging experiences from travels
> across the Middle East and waiting on an order of food.
>
> I agree with your decision to buy a good steamer for a better froth.
> I can vouch for this, does a nice job with steam. Isn't much new and
> should be near a giveaway secondhand. You'll have to excuse the new
> Google interface, in case the links prove click-incoherent. Last one I
> posted split across two lines, truncated with a linefeed. Highlite
> the enterity and paste/copy into the buffer for a new address field to
> make the connection. Or search ECM20, Mr. Coffee.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hg/002-4526412-4905627?url=search-
> alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=mr+coffee+espresso&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
>
> For a little more, a lowend Gaggia, DeLonghi, or possibly Krups...
> $50-75 used across a $150-300 retail kup. One up at $400, but then
> you're out of milk. The layers are coffee oils in suspended
> emulsions, and so served in South America for a colloidal. Mine
> invariably settle over four distinct layers, including a crema
> sprinkling across the lightest froth. I see a narrow spoon provided
> among vendors for breaking up the emulsion, so to retain the top
> froth. A fork will suffice.
>
> Next are some 800 chemicals contained within in a single coffee bean.
> They're very fragile, volatile chemicals and seldom reach distinction
> to an average coffee consumer. One common coffee aspect is the
> business end of skunk, an allied chemical substance called mercaptan
> (may be mis / pronounced / spelt), which unless I'm again mistaken is
> used for an industrial cautionary trace odorant in naturally occuring,
> odorless natural gas. Another common aspect is a residual referred to
> as a green-bean flavoring. The two combined I find are akin to a
> residual flavor acquired by drinking coffee through a rubber hose.
> Desirable trace components quickly deteriorate and breakdown once
> green beans are roasted, whereupon judgement is then determined for
> little more than precautionary note as undistinguished to the
> connoisseur. Flowers and nutty chocolates and fruits are what they're
> all about. Yet, to my untrained nose, I suspect there's a surprising
> residual sufficiency within slag - rummaging among lesser beans.
> Considering alternatives, moreover, at Dennys or McDonalds. . . Yes,
> indeed I do. Still, it's all a bit more complicated than I'm at
> present capable, so long as you've a mind for a study of obscurities
> within things like chess, music, literature, paintings, or
> investments, perhaps coffee may have a finer point or two to proffer.
>
> On Jan 30, 12:24 am, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Lovely your wording, picking up a British accent along with dry
> > humor..
>
> > Had some shopping to do and picked up one those Bialetti mukka
> > expresses that makes cappas for $41.92. Hmmm interesting setup.
> > Better than starpucks but a little weak for my taste with so much
> > milk. You can't really regulate the milk, as it's mixed in the end
> > brew. Too little and little foam - too much and much a mess. There's a
> > sweet spot, but it still weakens the soup, which leads me to think
> > that my normal mukka pot and some self foaming is a better way to
> > go.
>
> > When you mess with your mukka fill her up but just don't pack too
> > much. I made this pot the other day, and I don't know what the heck I
> > did but the coffee came out like syrup and it was the sweetest stuff
> > I've ever had inclusive of any espresso I've tested. The very best
> > espresso I've had was not so much sweet, rather it had layers to it
> > with each one having different notes of depth, and texture. But like I
> > mentioned these types of trips are a small handful in my memory.
>
> > I'm happy with my mukka but I also enjoy the simplicity but do enjoy
> > the challenge to tinker further. I thought perhaps that espresso
> > making was the next progressive step, instead it may just be a
> > different cousin??- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -



 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 00:34:09
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Never could manage the accent, though do admire proper pronunciation.
Just got back from running into a Northsea lass from near Lancaster/
Manchester area, complaining about the cold weather her in Florida, of
all things. A quick chitterchatter about friendly auspices among
peoople the world over while exchanging experiences from travels
across the Middle East and waiting on an order of food.

I agree with your decision to buy a good steamer for a better froth.
I can vouch for this, does a nice job with steam. Isn't much new and
should be near a giveaway secondhand. You'll have to excuse the new
Google interface, in case the links prove click-incoherent. Last one I
posted split across two lines, truncated with a linefeed. Highlite
the enterity and paste/copy into the buffer for a new address field to
make the connection. Or search ECM20, Mr. Coffee.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hg/002-4526412-4905627?url=search-
alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=mr+coffee+espresso&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

For a little more, a lowend Gaggia, DeLonghi, or possibly Krups...
$50-75 used across a $150-300 retail kup. One up at $400, but then
you're out of milk. The layers are coffee oils in suspended
emulsions, and so served in South America for a colloidal. Mine
invariably settle over four distinct layers, including a crema
sprinkling across the lightest froth. I see a narrow spoon provided
among vendors for breaking up the emulsion, so to retain the top
froth. A fork will suffice.

Next are some 800 chemicals contained within in a single coffee bean.
They're very fragile, volatile chemicals and seldom reach distinction
to an average coffee consumer. One common coffee aspect is the
business end of skunk, an allied chemical substance called mercaptan
(may be mis / pronounced / spelt), which unless I'm again mistaken is
used for an industrial cautionary trace odorant in naturally occuring,
odorless natural gas. Another common aspect is a residual referred to
as a green-bean flavoring. The two combined I find are akin to a
residual flavor acquired by drinking coffee through a rubber hose.
Desirable trace components quickly deteriorate and breakdown once
green beans are roasted, whereupon judgement is then determined for
little more than precautionary note as undistinguished to the
connoisseur. Flowers and nutty chocolates and fruits are what they're
all about. Yet, to my untrained nose, I suspect there's a surprising
residual sufficiency within slag - rummaging among lesser beans.
Considering alternatives, moreover, at Dennys or McDonalds. . . Yes,
indeed I do. Still, it's all a bit more complicated than I'm at
present capable, so long as you've a mind for a study of obscurities
within things like chess, music, literature, paintings, or
investments, perhaps coffee may have a finer point or two to proffer.

On Jan 30, 12:24 am, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Lovely your wording, picking up a British accent along with dry
> humor..
>
> Had some shopping to do and picked up one those Bialetti mukka
> expresses that makes cappas for $41.92. Hmmm interesting setup.
> Better than starpucks but a little weak for my taste with so much
> milk. You can't really regulate the milk, as it's mixed in the end
> brew. Too little and little foam - too much and much a mess. There's a
> sweet spot, but it still weakens the soup, which leads me to think
> that my normal mukka pot and some self foaming is a better way to
> go.
>
> When you mess with your mukka fill her up but just don't pack too
> much. I made this pot the other day, and I don't know what the heck I
> did but the coffee came out like syrup and it was the sweetest stuff
> I've ever had inclusive of any espresso I've tested. The very best
> espresso I've had was not so much sweet, rather it had layers to it
> with each one having different notes of depth, and texture. But like I
> mentioned these types of trips are a small handful in my memory.
>
> I'm happy with my mukka but I also enjoy the simplicity but do enjoy
> the challenge to tinker further. I thought perhaps that espresso
> making was the next progressive step, instead it may just be a
> different cousin??



 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 21:24:17
From: yoyep
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Lovely your wording, picking up a British accent along with dry
humor..

Had some shopping to do and picked up one those Bialetti mukka
expresses that makes cappas for $41.92. Hmmm interesting setup.
Better than starpucks but a little weak for my taste with so much
milk. You can't really regulate the milk, as it's mixed in the end
brew. Too little and little foam - too much and much a mess. There's a
sweet spot, but it still weakens the soup, which leads me to think
that my normal mukka pot and some self foaming is a better way to
go.

When you mess with your mukka fill her up but just don't pack too
much. I made this pot the other day, and I don't know what the heck I
did but the coffee came out like syrup and it was the sweetest stuff
I've ever had inclusive of any espresso I've tested. The very best
espresso I've had was not so much sweet, rather it had layers to it
with each one having different notes of depth, and texture. But like I
mentioned these types of trips are a small handful in my memory.

I'm happy with my mukka but I also enjoy the simplicity but do enjoy
the challenge to tinker further. I thought perhaps that espresso
making was the next progressive step, instead it may just be a
different cousin??


On Jan 30, 7:18 am, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net > wrote:
> Hello again. Espresso really needn't be all that bother expense wise.
> Do nicely with second-rate gear, a little luck, and hopefully less
> than more mechanical aptitude for rejunvinating life from an Ebay toss-
> off. The rest is strict attention to detail and a lot of reading, I
> suppose, an appreciation of capabilities and what's possible, you
> know. Shall we say $50, then, a quarter on the US dollar for a toss-
> off, excluding a cheap grinder and tolerance for silted setiments, or
> bother it all and simply buy a better grinder for $70-100... Right.
> Espresso unit's a demonstration model from a furniture outlet. No
> fuss, no muss, and fits right as rain on the kitchen cupboard. I won't
> say it's not complicated, espresso, but then the taste has been worth
> every shot since paid back in spades. Always was, come to think of
> it, just gets better. Fresh green unroasted coffee beans picked up
> from all along farpoints from the equatorial belt will do you well.
> They're apt to use popcorn makers for that sort of thing, though my
> experience them is have to be quick, as things can get quite hot in a
> hurry.
>
> Cheeses. My, my.... don't mind if I do. Truly the cheese fanatic,
> I'll have you know, buy cheese and sweet meats in bulk, with a
> delicatesen slicer and vacuum packer to keep the larder well in
> stock. Fruity bodied wines and chocolates sound no less appetizing,
> though I'd have to plead a little light in that regard, but wouldn't
> mind a taste or two, all the same. Perhaps some sliced fruit or
> freshly baked bread, as well. No doubt a lovely roundplate aside a
> spot of warmly scented espresso.
>
> Thank you so for the instructions - a light pinch, you say, needn't
> really bother loading up with the water, yes, and none of the heavy
> compounding. Think I got that right. Oh, no, I found an Italian
> mokapot for half that, really just an afterthought while picking up a
> set of Bodum double-walled glasses. $30 for everything, the glasses
> and a mokapot. Again, very nice of you to say, Changingse.
>
> On Jan 29, 3:22 pm, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Oh no can't do that the guy went belly up several months ago. Heart
> > attack - poor chap.
>
> > Anyway, haven't met anyone who could touch his jig and I've been lucky
> > to travel overseas a lot and try lots of coffee based drinks. Give me
> > this little ole mans' charms or my simply plain Jane full bodied
> > mukka. I just thought perhaps I was missing something here. On that
> > same note though - I hate wine unless its sweet enough to scent with.
> > But show me a fine chocolate or cheese and I'm your girl in the know.
> > So perhaps my taste differs a bit. My point was how to obtain even
> > better results than my mukka pot.
>
> > Oh, for the person soon to be getting his mukka. You must go through
> > 5-8 runs before you really enjoy a nice production. Also, DO NOT tap,
> > because it will come out bitter; water temp and pressure needed to
> > pass through. Instead just do a light fluff fill. I don't even top
> > off my little tank because I obtain enough of a nice body and aroma
> > with lesser amount grind and less water. As far as the cap mukka
> > machine, I have seen them yet not tried one. I understand that they
> > are currently at the Bed Bath and Beyond stores and with their 30%
> > sale off can be picked up for $40 plus tax.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -



 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 20:18:49
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Hello again. Espresso really needn't be all that bother expense wise.
Do nicely with second-rate gear, a little luck, and hopefully less
than more mechanical aptitude for rejunvinating life from an Ebay toss-
off. The rest is strict attention to detail and a lot of reading, I
suppose, an appreciation of capabilities and what's possible, you
know. Shall we say $50, then, a quarter on the US dollar for a toss-
off, excluding a cheap grinder and tolerance for silted setiments, or
bother it all and simply buy a better grinder for $70-100... Right.
Espresso unit's a demonstration model from a furniture outlet. No
fuss, no muss, and fits right as rain on the kitchen cupboard. I won't
say it's not complicated, espresso, but then the taste has been worth
every shot since paid back in spades. Always was, come to think of
it, just gets better. Fresh green unroasted coffee beans picked up
from all along farpoints from the equatorial belt will do you well.
They're apt to use popcorn makers for that sort of thing, though my
experience them is have to be quick, as things can get quite hot in a
hurry.

Cheeses. My, my.... don't mind if I do. Truly the cheese fanatic,
I'll have you know, buy cheese and sweet meats in bulk, with a
delicatesen slicer and vacuum packer to keep the larder well in
stock. Fruity bodied wines and chocolates sound no less appetizing,
though I'd have to plead a little light in that regard, but wouldn't
mind a taste or two, all the same. Perhaps some sliced fruit or
freshly baked bread, as well. No doubt a lovely roundplate aside a
spot of warmly scented espresso.

Thank you so for the instructions - a light pinch, you say, needn't
really bother loading up with the water, yes, and none of the heavy
compounding. Think I got that right. Oh, no, I found an Italian
mokapot for half that, really just an afterthought while picking up a
set of Bodum double-walled glasses. $30 for everything, the glasses
and a mokapot. Again, very nice of you to say, Changingse.

On Jan 29, 3:22 pm, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Oh no can't do that the guy went belly up several months ago. Heart
> attack - poor chap.
>
> Anyway, haven't met anyone who could touch his jig and I've been lucky
> to travel overseas a lot and try lots of coffee based drinks. Give me
> this little ole mans' charms or my simply plain Jane full bodied
> mukka. I just thought perhaps I was missing something here. On that
> same note though - I hate wine unless its sweet enough to scent with.
> But show me a fine chocolate or cheese and I'm your girl in the know.
> So perhaps my taste differs a bit. My point was how to obtain even
> better results than my mukka pot.
>
> Oh, for the person soon to be getting his mukka. You must go through
> 5-8 runs before you really enjoy a nice production. Also, DO NOT tap,
> because it will come out bitter; water temp and pressure needed to
> pass through. Instead just do a light fluff fill. I don't even top
> off my little tank because I obtain enough of a nice body and aroma
> with lesser amount grind and less water. As far as the cap mukka
> machine, I have seen them yet not tried one. I understand that they
> are currently at the Bed Bath and Beyond stores and with their 30%
> sale off can be picked up for $40 plus tax.



 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 17:01:33
From: yoyep
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Yep thought of that too....but I thought steam was steam was steam.
Such is an example of inadequate dry steam are those little nespresso
hops. The one I goofed with would sputter water even when it was left
wide open to drain out. And the steam was moist as best. Plus,
counter space is an issue and I would really like to have everything
all in one. I'm just not sure that a straight espresso machine is my
bag. Like I mentioned simplicity and a full body drink are my goals on
a fixed income.



On Jan 30, 12:23 am, Randy G. <f...@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:
> "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com> wrote:So form what I gather is that you are making your espresso with a
> stove-top espresso maker- the Moka pot... But you want to be able to
> do some sort of milk based drink as well? An I close? If so, hit the
> thrift stores and get a cheap, stem-driven espresso maker and use it
> just for steaming. Some of them can be had new for very little and
> really, steaming milk is about al they are good for, so it should work
> out for you.
>
> If that is not what you are asking, then this message will self
> ctrl/alt/delete in ten seconds.
>
> Randy "9... 8... 7... " G.http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 13:23:39
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
"yoyep" <changingseats@gmail.com > wrote:
So form what I gather is that you are making your espresso with a
stove-top espresso maker- the Moka pot... But you want to be able to
do some sort of milk based drink as well? An I close? If so, hit the
thrift stores and get a cheap, stem-driven espresso maker and use it
just for steaming. Some of them can be had new for very little and
really, steaming milk is about al they are good for, so it should work
out for you.

If that is not what you are asking, then this message will self
ctrl/alt/delete in ten seconds.


Randy "9... 8... 7... " G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 15:07:19
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Absolutely drink whatever pleases you and feel free to explore


all snobbery aside!

dave




 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 12:22:02
From: yoyep
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
Oh no can't do that the guy went belly up several months ago. Heart
attack - poor chap.

Anyway, haven't met anyone who could touch his jig and I've been lucky
to travel overseas a lot and try lots of coffee based drinks. Give me
this little ole mans' charms or my simply plain Jane full bodied
mukka. I just thought perhaps I was missing something here. On that
same note though - I hate wine unless its sweet enough to scent with.
But show me a fine chocolate or cheese and I'm your girl in the know.
So perhaps my taste differs a bit. My point was how to obtain even
better results than my mukka pot.

Oh, for the person soon to be getting his mukka. You must go through
5-8 runs before you really enjoy a nice production. Also, DO NOT tap,
because it will come out bitter; water temp and pressure needed to
pass through. Instead just do a light fluff fill. I don't even top
off my little tank because I obtain enough of a nice body and aroma
with lesser amount grind and less water. As far as the cap mukka
machine, I have seen them yet not tried one. I understand that they
are currently at the Bed Bath and Beyond stores and with their 30%
sale off can be picked up for $40 plus tax.

On Jan 29, 10:52 pm, jim schulman <jim_schul...@ameritech.net > wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2007 08:34:48 -0800, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >So what's the beef, well the truth is I seem to enjoy my Moka more
> >than almost any espresso from his machine or any other, except for
> >maybe a couple I have had in the last year- but these were
> >rekable. ...
>
> >So - what I wonder is..my taste warped, does anyone else find this to
> >be the case?Not everyone likes espresso; and not everyone, not even all owners of
> PIDed Silvias, make good espresso.
>
> The only valid reason for changing the way you do coffee is if you get
> something you like better. So instead of worrying about your taste; it
> may be better to worry about the adequacy of your plan. If you want to
> duplicate the shots you found rekable; it may be more to the point
> to get advice from the people who made them.



 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 13:52:07
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
On 29 Jan 2007 08:34:48 -0800, "yoyep" <changingseats@gmail.com >
wrote:

>So what's the beef, well the truth is I seem to enjoy my Moka more
>than almost any espresso from his machine or any other, except for
>maybe a couple I have had in the last year- but these were
>rekable. ...
>
>So - what I wonder is..my taste warped, does anyone else find this to
>be the case?

Not everyone likes espresso; and not everyone, not even all owners of
PIDed Silvias, make good espresso.

The only valid reason for changing the way you do coffee is if you get
something you like better. So instead of worrying about your taste; it
may be better to worry about the adequacy of your plan. If you want to
duplicate the shots you found rekable; it may be more to the point
to get advice from the people who made them.


 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 10:38:28
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Thoughts for clueless
On Jan 29, 11:34 am, "yoyep" <changingse...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> So what's the beef, well the truth is I seem to enjoy my Moka more
> than almost any espresso from his machine or any other, except for
> maybe a couple I have had in the last year- but these were
> rekable.

Sounds good for when mine arrives sometime on delivery soon. That's
the way I read users from theeir impressions, as well. Looking
forward to something convenient to make a couple cups for the thermos.
Attempts to approximate a French press didn't turn out impressive.
There's a combined moka/latte contraption for around $80 I also saw
listed on Amazon. Makes a smaller amount, not much more than a couple
small cups, but milk-based and, with some coaxing, garners supportive
claims for a job well done. Bialetti, I think offhand. Crema's on
par with coaxing or knack aspect for all of them. Can't say much on a
steam froather, as the traditional device appears to be a mechanical
frothing whipper. Milk I'd think is much a universal appeal to
coffee. Though not to everyone, it's on the menu and in most
courntries.