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Date: 11 Feb 2007 09:11:10
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it once
in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .

I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to shut
off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air enters c)
Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand. Of the three
the last method is the best . However the tape has to be replace every 4
shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need to fill that slot
inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a permanent solution. Any
other recommendations or ideas? Tks






 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 05:41:49
From: wes
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
On Feb 11, 4:09 pm, hazzmat
<hazz...@unitedstatesgovernmentbellsouth.net > wrote:

> Regarding the use of the Silvia steam wand on a Gaggia and the rate of
> steam blow-off, I doubt that the Silvia wand would cause the Gaggia's
> steam to run out faster.

I had a Gaggia Evolution with a Sylvia wand, and it worked fantastic.
As has been said earlier, just begin steaming before the light goes
out for best results. To be honest, that setup had a tremendous
pressure advantage over my "upgraded" HX Expobar machine I have now.
My boiler is around 1.3 bar on my machine now, and I was getting
around 1.8 bar or so out the wand on the Gaggia. Microfoam was no
problem, and I could steam milk in a 20oz pitcher. With my Expobar I
can only get microfoam in a 12oz pitcher.

Swap to the Sylvia wand, and you'll never go back.

Wes



 
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:57:26
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
"Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net > wrote in message
news:VpidnR-OJ9qs01LYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com...
> It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it
> once in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>
> I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
> sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to shut
> off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air enters c)
> Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand. Of the
> three the last method is the best . However the tape has to be replace
> every 4 shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need to fill
> that slot inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a permanent
> solution. Any other recommendations or ideas? Tks
>

There are two different wands sold with the Gaggias; one has 4 slots in the
tip, the other has only 2. I've used both, and by putting Blu-Tack around
the airgap up the top, was able to get good foam from the 4-slot wand. So
good, in fact, that I didn't bother doing the Silvia mod, though I had
planned to. The 2-slot was no good at all, & was loud into the bargain.




Faema Family
Sunbeam EM480
Sunbeam Bang-bang




  
Date: 12 Feb 2007 10:21:30
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
I have the newer 4 hole wand. I finally decided to fill the air intake slot
located on the inner well towards the top of the outer sleeve with 5 minute
epoxy. This worked like a charm . This is working out really well so no need
to change over to a Silvia nor the Saeco wand. The added advantage of this
method is that the wand's outer sleeve can easily be removed for cleaning
after each use .


"Natalie Drest" <fugeddaboudit@notarealemailaddress.net > wrote in message
news:45d01d04$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:VpidnR-OJ9qs01LYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it
>> once in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>>
>> I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a
>> PVC sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to
>> shut off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air
>> enters c) Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand.
>> Of the three the last method is the best . However the tape has to be
>> replace every 4 shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need
>> to fill that slot inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a
>> permanent solution. Any other recommendations or ideas? Tks
>>
>
> There are two different wands sold with the Gaggias; one has 4 slots in
> the tip, the other has only 2. I've used both, and by putting Blu-Tack
> around the airgap up the top, was able to get good foam from the 4-slot
> wand. So good, in fact, that I didn't bother doing the Silvia mod, though
> I had planned to. The 2-slot was no good at all, & was loud into the
> bargain.
>
>
>
>
> Faema Family
> Sunbeam EM480
> Sunbeam Bang-bang
>
>




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 13:50:39
From: TrailRun
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
On Feb 11, 12:11 pm, "Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOS...@netzero.net >
wrote:
> It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it once
> in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>
> I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
> sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing


I agree with Seth on the Saeco wand, I use one and not only is the
inside long enough as is you do get some adjustment by sliding the
wand up and down on the metal wand on the machine.

WayneS



 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 16:09:25
From: hazzmat
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:11:10 -0800, Sportflyer wrote:

> It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it once
> in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>
> I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
> sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to shut
> off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air enters c)
> Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand. Of the three
> the last method is the best . However the tape has to be replace every 4
> shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need to fill that slot
> inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a permanent solution. Any
> other recommendations or ideas? Tks

Regarding the use of the Silvia steam wand on a Gaggia and the rate of
steam blow-off, I doubt that the Silvia wand would cause the Gaggia's
steam to run out faster. The arm is longer, allowing you to reach down
into a pitcher that is filled only a third or less with milk, but the hole
on the stock Silvia steam wand is not larger than the inner diameter of
the Gaggia steam wand (w/ panarello removed.) I don't have both of them in
front of me--I'm relying on memory about the Gaggia arm. I would guess
that the hole on the steam nozzle is the most important factor in how fast
the steam comes out and how long it lasts other factors being held
constant. If the force with the Silvia arm is too great and it drains the
steam out faster, you might also try one of the afterket nozzles that
replace the stock item on the Silvia arm. Espressoparts.com has a 4 hole
model (which I use). Wholelattelove has a 3 hole nozzle (which I have no
experience with). I can't predict how they would perform with the
Silvia-armed Gaggia. The holes on the 3 hole nozzle may be large enough
that you can experiment with blocking one of them, I'm not sure. The 4
hole nozzle's holes are so tiny I can't image how they could be blocked
with something you could later remove. I don't know for certain that the 4
hole nozzle that I use reduces the overall blast from my boiler (I've
never timed how long the steam takes to run out), but it certainly spreads
the steam out, reducing the uncontrolled 'blast off' or 'spin out' of milk
from the pitcher, and makes the steam more usable to me when I'm trying to
microfoam small amounts of milk (like 3oz.) If I were frothing larger
amounts of milk at one time maybe I'd prefer to use the stock nozzle.

However, the reports from people who've done this mod seem to agree that
as long as you begin steaming before the "ready" light comes on, you
should not have any problem with steam pressure dying out. Counting
to 25 or maybe a little longer after hitting the steam switch before
opening the steam valve should do it--and this is best practice whether
you're using the Silvia arm or the stock arm.

--
Get Big Brother out of my email to reply.


  
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 15:35:52
From: Seth Goodman
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
In article <VpidnR-OJ9qs01LYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com >, on Sun, 11
Feb 2007 09:11:10 -0800, Sportflyer wrote:

> It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand

[snip]

> Any other recommendations or ideas? Tks


Replace it with the Saeco pannarello. When you remove the outer sleeve,
the inner wand is long enough to use as is.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Saeco/saeco_pannarello.cfm

How to attach:
http://www.wholelattelove.com/articles.cfm?articleID=9

--
Seth Goodman


 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 10:49:11
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
"Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net > wrote:

>It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it once
>in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>
>I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
>sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to shut
>off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air enters c)
>Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand. Of the three
>the last method is the best . However the tape has to be replace every 4
>shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need to fill that slot
>inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a permanent solution. Any
>other recommendations or ideas? Tks
>

No info on that wand, but I can comment on the stretching of soy. With
practice soy can be stretched and look quite nice, but separates so
quickly after stretching it sometimes seems hardly worth the effort.
You can prove this my making the beverage in a clear glass vessel. It
will like quite nice for about 30-60 seconds, but after that it will
be stiff foam on top and liquid on the bottom. If consumed immediately
after pouring it is good, but you got to drink fast.

Once in a while I will add about one tablespoon of organic half and
half per serving which dramatically richens the beverage and helps
maintain the texture longer.

If you can find it (good luck) try Soy Blenders from Pacific Food. It
is sold for institutional use only and I have not been able to get it.
They did tell me to try the Ambience brand at St & Final, but the
closest S+M is about a 90 minute drive from here.. one way. Three
hours for Soy Milk is a bit much. ;-)


Randy "wash your hands before milking the soy cow!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 11 Feb 2007 11:14:13
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
a) If I dump the outer sleeve, then the remaining part is too short :(
b) If I replace it with Silvia steaming wnad , there might not be enough
steam power from the boiler :(
c) I agree with early deterioration with Soy milk stretching. It is nice for
a while then it starts to form bigger bubbles at the top and then is hard
foam at the top like described by Randy . I have been using the regular Soy
milk from Superkets. I do make my own Soy milk from beans for straight
Soy drink and Tofu but for some reason its worse than the Soy purchased from
superkets when steaming for Latte . I am not sure why it so.


"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:csous2h3v54pk8rrvip3m9j1bbq7uqhlho@4ax.com...
> "Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net> wrote:
>
>>It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it
>>once
>>in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>>
>>I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
>>sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to shut
>>off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air enters c)
>>Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand. Of the
>>three
>>the last method is the best . However the tape has to be replace every 4
>>shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need to fill that slot
>>inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a permanent solution.
>>Any
>>other recommendations or ideas? Tks
>>
>
> No info on that wand, but I can comment on the stretching of soy. With
> practice soy can be stretched and look quite nice, but separates so
> quickly after stretching it sometimes seems hardly worth the effort.
> You can prove this my making the beverage in a clear glass vessel. It
> will like quite nice for about 30-60 seconds, but after that it will
> be stiff foam on top and liquid on the bottom. If consumed immediately
> after pouring it is good, but you got to drink fast.
>
> Once in a while I will add about one tablespoon of organic half and
> half per serving which dramatically richens the beverage and helps
> maintain the texture longer.
>
> If you can find it (good luck) try Soy Blenders from Pacific Food. It
> is sold for institutional use only and I have not been able to get it.
> They did tell me to try the Ambience brand at St & Final, but the
> closest S+M is about a 90 minute drive from here.. one way. Three
> hours for Soy Milk is a bit much. ;-)
>
>
> Randy "wash your hands before milking the soy cow!" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>




   
Date: 11 Feb 2007 12:11:18
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
"Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net > wrote:


>c) I agree with early deterioration with Soy milk stretching. It is nice for
>a while then it starts to form bigger bubbles at the top and then is hard
>foam at the top like described by Randy.
>
I have no problem making 'proper' microfoam with it- it looks great in
the pitcher, and it pours nicely, but have never been able to get
anything even approaching latte art with it.

>I have been using the regular Soy
>milk from Superkets. I do make my own Soy milk from beans for straight
>Soy drink and Tofu but for some reason its worse than the Soy purchased from
>superkets when steaming for Latte . I am not sure why it so.
>
We use to make our own soymilk as well.. same story.
We were using some special soy beans grown by some folks in Iowa
specifically for the purpose of using in soy milk (it was missing the
beany flavor- more nutty). But they switched to a yahoo shopping cart
and the shipping got way to expensive to make it worth the cost and
effort.

We use Silk and the Costco product (made by Silk).


Randy "buying a soy bull next month" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com





    
Date: 12 Feb 2007 10:29:04
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
I have been using Silk , Sunsoy or Kikkoman brands. I have seen the
Pacific Food Soy around the Portland area .Pacific Foods is located in
Tigard Oregon so I should be able to get this soy easily in Portland. I will
check it out and advise. Tks
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:1mtus2dqouqffem494uq5rs30picbvimf6@4ax.com...
> "Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net> wrote:
>
>
>>c) I agree with early deterioration with Soy milk stretching. It is nice
>>for
>>a while then it starts to form bigger bubbles at the top and then is hard
>>foam at the top like described by Randy.
>>
> I have no problem making 'proper' microfoam with it- it looks great in
> the pitcher, and it pours nicely, but have never been able to get
> anything even approaching latte art with it.
>
>>I have been using the regular Soy
>>milk from Superkets. I do make my own Soy milk from beans for straight
>>Soy drink and Tofu but for some reason its worse than the Soy purchased
>>from
>>superkets when steaming for Latte . I am not sure why it so.
>>
> We use to make our own soymilk as well.. same story.
> We were using some special soy beans grown by some folks in Iowa
> specifically for the purpose of using in soy milk (it was missing the
> beany flavor- more nutty). But they switched to a yahoo shopping cart
> and the shipping got way to expensive to make it worth the cost and
> effort.
>
> We use Silk and the Costco product (made by Silk).
>
>
> Randy "buying a soy bull next month" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>




     
Date: 12 Feb 2007 10:54:54
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
"Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net > wrote:

>I have been using Silk , Sunsoy or Kikkoman brands. I have seen the
>Pacific Food Soy around the Portland area .Pacific Foods is located in
>Tigard Oregon so I should be able to get this soy easily in Portland. I will
>check it out and advise.

Be aware that they make a Soymilk that is sold commercially retail,
and the "Soy Blender" that is sold for institutional use. They are two
different products.


Randy "" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




      
Date: 12 Feb 2007 13:12:36
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
I will have to check it out with them. Tks for the info.

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:ocd1t2pisih575dur2hlsshtdvbucdsctt@4ax.com...
> "Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net> wrote:
>
>>I have been using Silk , Sunsoy or Kikkoman brands. I have seen the
>>Pacific Food Soy around the Portland area .Pacific Foods is located in
>>Tigard Oregon so I should be able to get this soy easily in Portland. I
>>will
>>check it out and advise.
>
> Be aware that they make a Soymilk that is sold commercially retail,
> and the "Soy Blender" that is sold for institutional use. They are two
> different products.
>
>
> Randy "" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 13:42:41
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Coffee as Metaphor for US/Europe Cutural Divide

"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:4fIzh.20462$zH1.17647@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Jack Denver" wrote
> [ ... ]
>
>> To Alan - below is what a cogent response would have looked like, so you
>> can tell the difference the next time.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> Thanks so much for the illustration, Jack.
> Speaking of "cogent responses", just how "cogent" was your response to
> Judt's article?
> Insofar as Judt's article had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jews or Arabs,
> and absolutely NOTHING to do with the Israel/Palestine conflict, I though
> that your response (a bitter, mudslinging rant about your perception of
> Judt as an anti-Semite) could be seen as somewhat less than cogent.

I'll leave to others to decent whether I'm cogent or not. Judt can't even
talk about coffee without getting digs in on the US and that was the main
theme of his piece - his usual theme is anti-Israel but when leftists aren't
busy denouncing Israel they usually denounce the US - maybe they
alternate - Israel denunciation on odd numbered days, denounce America on
the even numbered. The important thing is always to lash out at your own -
I'm convinced that much of leftism has a Freudian explanation.


> And before you read into MY words what is not there, I wish to make it
> clear that I am a left-leaning Jew of Middle Eastern descent, I live in
> the US (and do not hate either the US or Israel, although I take strong
> exception to the policies and actions of their respective governments),
> and I am not an anti-Semite, nor am I self-hating.

I'm glad to hear that - all hatred is ugly, especially self hatred. Aside
from Nazis and some Arabs, very few people confess to being anti-Semites
nowadays, - it's possible to have views that are effectively anti-Semitic
without admitting that you are. I'm not saying that's true of you, but one
can't accept self-definitions as being determinative. It also bothers me
that a lot of leftist dialog gets to the BUT part very soon "I support our
troops BUT..." , "Israelis have a right to live, BUT", etc. and I notice
that you get to the "although" pretty quickly yourself. There comes a point
where taking strong exception and being in the enemy's camp are effectively
same thing. Again, I'm not saying you're at that point, but there is a
difference between viewing one's country and one's people warts and all and
looking only at the warts.

>
> So, tell me ---- where do you stand on the tamping issue? No tamp? A light
> tamp?

A light tamp is sufficient.


Do you place your tamper on top of coffee grounds (which have been
> carefully tap-settled and evenly distributed) and hit it with a sledge
> hammer?

I save my sledge hammer for rhetorically beating people who want to drive us
over a cliff.


> And while we're at it --- do you back-flush? And, if not, why? :-)

Like flossing. Not as often as I should.
>
>




 
Date: 11 Feb 2007 12:33:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Too much air from gaggia Panarello wand
Yes.
Take the sleeve off and throw it in the trash.

Dave

"Sportflyer" <mode1flyerNOSPAM@netzero.net > wrote in message
news:VpidnR-OJ9qs01LYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com...
> It very difficult to obtain microfoam using the Gaggia Wand . I get it
> once in a while . I am steaming Soy milk instead of regular milk .
>
> I have have tried to reduce the air going into the wand by a) Adding a PVC
> sleeve at the place where the wand fits the upper plastic housing to shut
> off the air b) Using an O ring covering the slots where the air enters c)
> Adding an aluminum tape over air intake slot inside the wand. Of the
> three the last method is the best . However the tape has to be replace
> every 4 shot or so due to heat and weak adhesive. Perhaps I need to fill
> that slot inside the wand with either epoxy or hot melt as a permanent
> solution. Any other recommendations or ideas? Tks
>