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Date: 13 Apr 2007 15:26:28
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Very disturbing coffee related event...
I have (now it's, had) one of the original Europiccola espresso machines by
LP. It's been relegated to my collection of coffee memorabilia (vac pots,
moka, pots, steam pots, pump machines, cups, etc) for years, ever since I
bought my first Pro.

Last week the Pro had a parts failure, so while it was at the repair shop I
took the old machine off the shelf & put it in the Pro's spot on the
counter. It was there more or less to just fill the empty spot until the Pro
was returned. I had no intentions of using it so I didn't put water in it.

And that was the problem. Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if
she unplugs anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back in. I
mean who wants to put water & coffee into the drip pot only to return after
showering to no coffee? Diligent person that she is she has been very good
at making sure everything is plugged in. Can you see where this is going?

The machine was plugged in with no water in it, but no problem if it's not
switched on, right. You Peacock owner's will know what happens next; the
power switch sticks out from the bottom of the base & if the machine is
turned a bit to that side you cannot see the switch or the power on light.
In my cleaning up after myself I must have pushed the machine into an airpot
I keep next to it. The power was on for who knows how long, but I can tell
you this - the friggin thermal fuse didn't blow, but the heating element
sure did.

I am lucky enough to have very sensitive smoke & carbon monoxide detectors
because I was in my workshop when all Hell broke loose. I'm lucky that the
machine doesn't fit well under overhead cupboards or the whole kitchen might
have gone up before I got to the scene. Fortunately, I have cut-off switches
located at strategic junctions in the house so I was able to power
everything down in that corner of the kitchen quickly. Out comes the fire
extinguisher & poof, the immediate problem's solved. The brass boiler is
warped in several places & the steel base has no finish left, so I'm
supposing at this point that the machine is worthless as a collectable. (I'd
fantasized about taking it to an Antiques Roadshow someday.)

I can see where La Pavoni screwed up twice here:
1) The switch & light is not 100% visible from the working angle,
2) the fuses they use were substandard.

LP's not the only ones with potentially dangerous designs. I have a Melitta
Clarity that makes great coffee, but it can get the user in deep doda.

Problems with the Clarity:
1) The on/off switch is on the left & easily bumped,
2) the power on light is very small & easily missed,
3) the warming tray has no thermostat, so it's possible to boil the pot dry
& beyond - to who knows where?

I don't know if these things have to obtain Underwriter's Laboratories seal
of approval before they can be sold but if they do or don't is immaterial -
the things have dangerous flaws. I'm sure there are many other devices out
there with similar or worse problems. I guess these are sold in such low
numbers there's no money in it for liability lawyers to get that hungry
gleam in their eyes. Can you say "Class Action"?
--
Robert (Scared, pissed, very disappointed, & more than a 'little' sick to my
stomach!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.






 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 16:32:30
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Barry Jarrett <b...@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
> On 17 Apr 2007 11:35:00 -0700, daveb <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Actually what is really funny is that you still think that I think I
> >can remove it!
> >which is a riot.
> >
> >I have a paid usenet connection and I post from both places at whim.
> >and I know exactly what is "out there". in the archive and what is
> >visible on google.
>
> so, since it's on everyone else's servers, you shouldn't have any
> problem confirming that you wrote:
>
> "Izzy -- (Jack) is one of the MOST pompuous individuals around, and it
> comes shining right on through here."

I confirm it!



  
Date: 18 Apr 2007 00:57:13
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On 17 Apr 2007 16:32:30 -0700, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

>> "Izzy -- (Jack) is one of the MOST pompuous individuals around, and it
>> comes shining right on through here."
>
>I confirm it!

Then learn to spell your insults correctly, idiot.


 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 14:17:09
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 17, 4:48 pm, Steve <n...@use.net > wrote:
> On 17 Apr 2007 11:56:09 -0700, daveb <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >more from "anon" or "roughjaw" or whomever, posting to
> >rec.crafts.metalworking:
>
> God, you are an idiot.
> Reading headers is beyond you, obviously.

tsk.
is that all you have for us?



 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 11:56:09
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 17, 2:11 pm, Anon <a...@somewhere.invalid > wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:08:30 -0700, daveb wrote:
> > some freak is forging my posts. this is just laughably pathetic.
>
> > and hysterically amusing.
>
> > have a great day!
>
> What's hysterically amusing is that you post stuff, and then thinking
> that you can "remove" it, do so from google, leaving all your posts
> intact on the real news servers.

more from "anon" or "roughjaw" or whomever, posting to
rec.crafts.metalworking:

"
I believe what I see in the headers:

1) You're an idiot (posting through google)
2) You're an idiot (posting via web browser rather than newsreader)
3) You're an idiot (using Windows)
4) Finally, you are posting from a GB/UK IP address that's not been
used
on rec.crafts.metalworking at least during this calendar year...
highly
indicative that you're a troll, but in combination with 1-3 above,
makes
it quite conclusive.

> nor know that the
> person that it purports to be from is actually the posters real name.

Duh! Stating the painfully obvious, proving once again that you're
an
idiot.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com "


this is what occupies HIS time.

'nuf said.



  
Date: 17 Apr 2007 20:48:07
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On 17 Apr 2007 11:56:09 -0700, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

>more from "anon" or "roughjaw" or whomever, posting to
>rec.crafts.metalworking:

God, you are an idiot.
Reading headers is beyond you, obviously.


 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 11:35:00
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...


Actually what is really funny is that you still think that I think I
can remove it!
which is a riot.

I have a paid usenet connection and I post from both places at whim.
and I know exactly what is "out there". in the archive and what is
visible on google.

and second? even more riotus, is that you are hiding your identity.

third? that you care so much.
d



  
Date: 17 Apr 2007 21:42:30
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On 17 Apr 2007 11:35:00 -0700, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

>
>
>Actually what is really funny is that you still think that I think I
>can remove it!
>which is a riot.
>
>I have a paid usenet connection and I post from both places at whim.
>and I know exactly what is "out there". in the archive and what is
>visible on google.


so, since it's on everyone else's servers, you shouldn't have any
problem confirming that you wrote:

"Izzy -- (Jack) is one of the MOST pompuous individuals around, and it
comes shining right on through here."




 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 20:11:12
From: Anon
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:08:30 -0700, daveb wrote:

> some freak is forging my posts. this is just laughably pathetic.
>
> and hysterically amusing.
>
> have a great day!

What's hysterically amusing is that you post stuff, and then thinking
that you can "remove" it, do so from google, leaving all your posts
intact on the real news servers.
The "forger" isn't doing anything more than preserving for posterity
those things that you wish wouldn't be. By doing it under a NON-forged
address, he insures that you can't remove that one too. After all, an
actual forgery wouldn't do any good since you could remove that one too.

This IS YOUR post, DaveB, exactly as it YOU posted it.

Message-ID: <1176761839.084446.202350@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >
From: "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com >
Newsgroups: alt.coffee
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
Date: 16 Apr 2007 15:17:19 -0700
References: <EiNTh.22227$tD2.10626@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >
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22:17:19 GMT)
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On Apr 16, 1:44 pm, "Danny Joe" <dpie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 16, 10:35 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > My rule is that things that can run "empty" without harm (toaster,
mixer,
> > etc.) can stay plugged in, while those things that can self destruct
or harm
> > others if run dry (coffee machine, stick blender) stay unplugged .
The
> > housekeeper is instructed not to mess with the plugs and in places
where
> > you had to unplug something to plug in the vacuum cleaner, I've
installed a
> > tap with extra receptacles so she can leave my damn plugs alone (and
still I
> > come back to a blinking 12:00 on my bathroom clock radio regularly -
I think
> > she hits the GFCI test button). I don't know whether to laugh or cry
when I
> > watch my housekeeper match wits with an electrical device and the
device
> > wins every time - I think it comes from being raised in a rural
society
> > where these things don't exist - I suppose (if I were not a farmboy
myself)
> > that she would laugh if I had to catch and pluck a chicken or some
other
> > common 3rd world type task.
>
> Jack,
>
> Thank you for a thoughtful and non-condescending view of the
> "housekeeper's" role in all this.
>
> Danny (enchufalo) Joe

Izzy -- (Jack) is one of the MOST pompuous individuals around, and it
comes shining right on through here.



 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 09:18:21
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 17, 12:08 pm, daveb <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:57 am, daveb <davebobblane@gmai


 
Date: 17 Apr 2007 09:08:30
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 17, 10:57 am, daveb <davebobblane@gmai

 
Date: .com
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
17 Apr 2007 14:57:15

 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 18:40:13
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 16, 8:36 am, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...@cox.net > wrote:
> daveb wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 2:58 pm, JC Dill <jcd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:12:21 GMT, "Danny Joe"
>
> >> <harry.flashmansqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Remember that Robert told her "Always plug in unplugged appliances"
>
> >> No he didn't. He said:
>
> >> "Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if she unplugs
> >> anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back in."
>
> >> There is a big difference between "plug back in" and "plug in
> >> unplugged appliances". If she had followed his instructions as said,
> >> she would not have plugged it in.
>
> >> jc
>
> >> --
>
> >> "The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
> >> of different horses without having to own that many."
> >> ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
>
> > If you have a suspect or iffy electrical appliance or a display piece
> > on the counter, then it should be IMPOSSIBLE to plug it in.
>
> If cutting the plug off is not a viable option then there are locks
> availablehttp://familysafemedia.com/powerstop_power_plug_lock.html. Of
> course if someone is really determined they'll cut the lock off and put
> on a new plug, but the locks should discourage anybody with any sense
> from plugging in anything that shouldn't be plugged.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Plug locks -- to keep the 'help'
or children
or nosey visitors from playing around.

the perfect, responsible solution.

Dave

2



 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 15:17:19
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 16, 1:44 pm, "Danny Joe" <dpie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 16, 10:35 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > My rule is that things that can run "empty" without harm (toaster, mixer,
> > etc.) can stay plugged in, while those things that can self destruct or harm
> > others if run dry (coffee machine, stick blender) stay unplugged . The
> > housekeeper is instructed not to mess with the plugs and in places where
> > you had to unplug something to plug in the vacuum cleaner, I've installed a
> > tap with extra receptacles so she can leave my damn plugs alone (and still I
> > come back to a blinking 12:00 on my bathroom clock radio regularly - I think
> > she hits the GFCI test button). I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I
> > watch my housekeeper match wits with an electrical device and the device
> > wins every time - I think it comes from being raised in a rural society
> > where these things don't exist - I suppose (if I were not a farmboy myself)
> > that she would laugh if I had to catch and pluck a chicken or some other
> > common 3rd world type task.
>
> Jack,
>
> Thank you for a thoughtful and non-condescending view of the
> "housekeeper's" role in all this.
>
> Danny (enchufalo) Joe

Izzy -- (Jack) is one of the MOST pompuous individuals around, and it
comes shining right on through here.



 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 10:44:13
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 16, 10:35 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> My rule is that things that can run "empty" without harm (toaster, mixer,
> etc.) can stay plugged in, while those things that can self destruct or harm
> others if run dry (coffee machine, stick blender) stay unplugged . The
> housekeeper is instructed not to mess with the plugs and in places where
> you had to unplug something to plug in the vacuum cleaner, I've installed a
> tap with extra receptacles so she can leave my damn plugs alone (and still I
> come back to a blinking 12:00 on my bathroom clock radio regularly - I think
> she hits the GFCI test button). I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I
> watch my housekeeper match wits with an electrical device and the device
> wins every time - I think it comes from being raised in a rural society
> where these things don't exist - I suppose (if I were not a farmboy myself)
> that she would laugh if I had to catch and pluck a chicken or some other
> common 3rd world type task.



Jack,

Thank you for a thoughtful and non-condescending view of the
"housekeeper's" role in all this.

Danny (enchufalo) Joe



 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 15:10:14
From:
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
In alt.coffee, Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@zhotmail.com > wrote:

> Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if
> she unplugs anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back in.


I have a different rule: The antique and the el-cheapo modern appliances
stay unplugged unless they are actually in use.

The well-made modern appliances are an exception.


  
Date: 17 Apr 2007 18:08:15
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

certainly:

pompous

P-O-M-P-O-U-S



  
Date: 16 Apr 2007 11:35:27
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
My rule is that things that can run "empty" without harm (toaster, mixer,
etc.) can stay plugged in, while those things that can self destruct or harm
others if run dry (coffee machine, stick blender) stay unplugged . The
housekeeper is instructed not to mess with the plugs and in places where
you had to unplug something to plug in the vacuum cleaner, I've installed a
tap with extra receptacles so she can leave my damn plugs alone (and still I
come back to a blinking 12:00 on my bathroom clock radio regularly - I think
she hits the GFCI test button). I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I
watch my housekeeper match wits with an electrical device and the device
wins every time - I think it comes from being raised in a rural society
where these things don't exist - I suppose (if I were not a farmboy myself)
that she would laugh if I had to catch and pluck a chicken or some other
common 3rd world type task.

<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com > wrote in message
news:f003km$kte$2@reader2.panix.com...
> In alt.coffee, Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if
>> she unplugs anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back
>> in.
>
>
> I have a different rule: The antique and the el-cheapo modern appliances
> stay unplugged unless they are actually in use.
>
> The well-made modern appliances are an exception.




 
Date: 15 Apr 2007 12:19:33
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 15, 2:58 pm, JC Dill <jcd...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:12:21 GMT, "Danny Joe"
>
> <harry.flashmansqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Remember that Robert told her "Always plug in unplugged appliances"
>
> No he didn't. He said:
>
> "Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if she unplugs
> anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back in."
>
> There is a big difference between "plug back in" and "plug in
> unplugged appliances". If she had followed his instructions as said,
> she would not have plugged it in.
>
> jc
>
> --
>
> "The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
> of different horses without having to own that many."
> ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA

If you have a suspect or iffy electrical appliance or a display piece
on the counter, then it should be IMPOSSIBLE to plug it in.

easy.



  
Date: 16 Apr 2007 08:36:44
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
daveb wrote:
> On Apr 15, 2:58 pm, JC Dill <jcd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:12:21 GMT, "Danny Joe"
>>
>> <harry.flashmansqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Remember that Robert told her "Always plug in unplugged appliances"
>>
>> No he didn't. He said:
>>
>> "Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if she unplugs
>> anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back in."
>>
>> There is a big difference between "plug back in" and "plug in
>> unplugged appliances". If she had followed his instructions as said,
>> she would not have plugged it in.
>>
>> jc
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
>> of different horses without having to own that many."
>> ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
>
> If you have a suspect or iffy electrical appliance or a display piece
> on the counter, then it should be IMPOSSIBLE to plug it in.

If cutting the plug off is not a viable option then there are locks
available http://familysafemedia.com/powerstop_power_plug_lock.html. Of
course if someone is really determined they'll cut the lock off and put
on a new plug, but the locks should discourage anybody with any sense
from plugging in anything that shouldn't be plugged.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)




 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 22:10:35
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

I could list for you the shit that housekeepers have destroyed.

It is a long, sad list.

dave
235



  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 19:12:21
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176527435.004280.48670@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> I could list for you the shit that housekeepers have destroyed.
>
> It is a long, sad list.
>
> dave
> 235
>

Don't blame the housekeeper.

Remember that Robert told her "Always plug in unplugged appliances"

She was doing what she was told.

Danny (Creo que la falta es con Roberto) joe




   
Date: 15 Apr 2007 11:58:10
From: JC Dill
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:12:21 GMT, "Danny Joe"
<harry.flashmansquack@gmail.com > wrote:

>Remember that Robert told her "Always plug in unplugged appliances"

No he didn't. He said:

"Our housekeeper has been told over & over that if she unplugs
anything to clean around it to make sure it's plugged back in."

There is a big difference between "plug back in" and "plug in
unplugged appliances". If she had followed his instructions as said,
she would not have plugged it in.

jc

--

"The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
of different horses without having to own that many."
~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA


 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 20:28:13
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
Howdy Alan!

There was a virtual cascade of events that led to the fire:
1) Pro sent in for repair.
2) Nature & I hate vacuums and empty spots on the counter.
3) Took a collectible & put it in the kitchen for show.
4) Didn't mark it as "Collectible" for housekeeper.
5) Didn't want to put water in a collectible.
6) The housekeeper *helped* by plugging the machine in.
7) Because of switch placement I unknowingly turned machine on.
8) Because of the power on lights placement I didn't know it was on.
9) The LP fuse failed, letting machine overheat.
10) Because there was no short the GFI didn't shut power off.
11) Because the circuit didn't break machine overheated to the point
of blowing the element & catching fire.

If any one of these events had not happened there would have been no,
or at worst minimal, damage. It's the law of unintended consequences
that an old friend used to spout at me. Hell, I count myself lucky
that the fire extinguisher didn't explode while I was using it.

On Apr 13, 8:24 pm, "*alan*" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Of course not, Marshall. Have I completely misunderstood the chain of
> events that led to Harmon's tragedy?




  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 09:50:57
From: Bill (Adopt)
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
In article <1176521293.568843.217460@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@hotmail.com > wrote:

[..](interesting list)

> If any one of these events had not happened there would have been no,
> or at worst minimal, damage. It's the law of unintended consequences
> that an old friend used to spout at me. Hell, I count myself lucky
> that the fire extinguisher didn't explode while I was using it.

So, not quite (yet) an entry for the Darwin Awards. I daresay
you'll have to be fully crispyfried for that..

..but if you do continue to scorn your collectable as if a
woman in passing, only replacing her on the counter merely
to fill her rival's gap then, with apologies to the Bard,

"Hell hath no fury as that of a collectable scorned".

'She' is(!) only getting her own back ..and this is but the
start of it.. !:))

hh ;))

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/


   
Date: 14 Apr 2007 15:11:28
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
Too true Bill, too true.
It's either unconditional love & acceptance or nothing. I wonder if my other
collectables of all kinds are just waiting for their opportunities to
strike? And think what might happen when the Pro gets back from her stint in
'rehab' and finds I had her former rival over while she was away? Clearly, I
did not think this through!
--
Robert (LMAO!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Bill (Adopt)" <adopt@billsimpson.com > wrote in message
news:4ed353fc23adopt@billsimpson.com...
snipped
> ..but if you do continue to scorn your collectable as if a
> woman in passing, only replacing her on the counter merely
> to fill her rival's gap then, with apologies to the Bard,
>
> "Hell hath no fury as that of a collectable scorned".
>
> 'She' is(!) only getting her own back ..and this is but the
> start of it.. !:))
>
> hh ;))
>
> Bill ZFC




  
Date: 13 Apr 2007 21:12:14
From: *alan*
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176521293.568843.217460@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Howdy Alan!
>
> There was a virtual cascade of events that led to the fire:
> 1) Pro sent in for repair.
> 2) Nature & I hate vacuums and empty spots on the counter.
> 3) Took a collectible & put it in the kitchen for show.
> 4) Didn't mark it as "Collectible" for housekeeper.
> 5) Didn't want to put water in a collectible.
> 6) The housekeeper *helped* by plugging the machine in.
> 7) Because of switch placement I unknowingly turned machine on.
> 8) Because of the power on lights placement I didn't know it was on.
> 9) The LP fuse failed, letting machine overheat.
> 10) Because there was no short the GFI didn't shut power off.
> 11) Because the circuit didn't break machine overheated to the point
> of blowing the element & catching fire.
>
> If any one of these events had not happened there would have been no,
> or at worst minimal, damage. It's the law of unintended consequences
> that an old friend used to spout at me. Hell, I count myself lucky
> that the fire extinguisher didn't explode while I was using it.

Although an old friend of mine was a believer also in the "the law of
unintended consequences", he expressed it a little less eloquently: "Shit
happens . . . " ;-)

>
> On Apr 13, 8:24 pm, "*alan*" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Of course not, Marshall. Have I completely misunderstood the chain of
>> events that led to Harmon's tragedy?
>
>



 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 23:51:42
From: *alan*
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

"Robert Harmon" wrote

[snipped]

> I can see where La Pavoni screwed up twice here:
> 1) The switch & light is not 100% visible from the working angle,
> 2) the fuses they use were substandard.
>
> LP's not the only ones with potentially dangerous designs. I have a
> Melitta Clarity that makes great coffee, but it can get the user in deep
> doda.

[snipped]

I do sympathize with you over the demise of your Europiccola but, really,
Robert, it's not just La Pavoni that "screwed up". Americans seem more and
more to unreasonably expect that every piece of equipment be 100%
idiot-proof. The only way to ensure that is to make certain that the piece
of equipment does not come into contact with idiots . . .
--
Alan



  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 00:51:38
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:51:42 GMT, "*alan*" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>
>"Robert Harmon" wrote
>
>[snipped]
>
>> I can see where La Pavoni screwed up twice here:
>> 1) The switch & light is not 100% visible from the working angle,
>> 2) the fuses they use were substandard.
>>
>> LP's not the only ones with potentially dangerous designs. I have a
>> Melitta Clarity that makes great coffee, but it can get the user in deep
>> doda.
>
>[snipped]
>
>I do sympathize with you over the demise of your Europiccola but, really,
>Robert, it's not just La Pavoni that "screwed up". Americans seem more and
>more to unreasonably expect that every piece of equipment be 100%
>idiot-proof. The only way to ensure that is to make certain that the piece
>of equipment does not come into contact with idiots . . .

Would it be unreasonable to expect a manufacturer to design a kitchen
appliance so that, if it is inadvertently (or even intentionally) slid
back against wall, it doesn't burn the house down and kill the family?

Marshall


   
Date: 14 Apr 2007 01:24:45
From: *alan*
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:i790231cifopcrkf63niealo2d0ga7k9c6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:51:42 GMT, "*alan*" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Robert Harmon" wrote
>>
>>[snipped]
>>
>>> I can see where La Pavoni screwed up twice here:
>>> 1) The switch & light is not 100% visible from the working angle,
>>> 2) the fuses they use were substandard.
>>>
>>> LP's not the only ones with potentially dangerous designs. I have a
>>> Melitta Clarity that makes great coffee, but it can get the user in deep
>>> doda.
>>
>>[snipped]
>>
>>I do sympathize with you over the demise of your Europiccola but, really,
>>Robert, it's not just La Pavoni that "screwed up". Americans seem more
>>and
>>more to unreasonably expect that every piece of equipment be 100%
>>idiot-proof. The only way to ensure that is to make certain that the
>>piece
>>of equipment does not come into contact with idiots . . .
>
> Would it be unreasonable to expect a manufacturer to design a kitchen
> appliance so that, if it is inadvertently (or even intentionally) slid
> back against wall, it doesn't burn the house down and kill the family?

Of course not, Marshall. Have I completely misunderstood the chain of
events that led to Harmon's tragedy?



  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 00:43:24
From: Brian Colwell
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...

"*alan*" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:iIUTh.9717$YL5.1689@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Robert Harmon" wrote
>
> [snipped]
>
>> I can see where La Pavoni screwed up twice here:
>> 1) The switch & light is not 100% visible from the working angle,
>> 2) the fuses they use were substandard.
>>
>> LP's not the only ones with potentially dangerous designs. I have a
>> Melitta Clarity that makes great coffee, but it can get the user in deep
>> doda.
>
> [snipped]
>
> I do sympathize with you over the demise of your Europiccola but, really,
> Robert, it's not just La Pavoni that "screwed up". Americans seem more
> and more to unreasonably expect that every piece of equipment be 100%
> idiot-proof. The only way to ensure that is to make certain that the
> piece of equipment does not come into contact with idiots . . .
> --
> Alan
That would certainly decimate the prospective customer pool !! :-))

BMC




 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 14:05:47
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 13, 1:09 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> ANOTHER reason to despise the LP Euro. Unlike nearly all stock HX
> machines, it does not have a cutoff when the water runs out (i.e.
> 'brainbox)
>
> good the 'ol pad did not burn down!

That's true Dave, but then show me a home machine that has a shut off
for anything other than excess heat. If your Silvia's high limit tstat
fails, poof, it could be your turn next. What pissed me off is I
relied on the GFI plug but I guess it never did short out. A real
bummer! I suppose that when I get the LP Pro back I'll have to look
into retro fitting a water level detector.



  
Date: 13 Apr 2007 18:29:07
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
Depends what you mean by home machine. My Oscar (which I think can be
counted as a "home" machine) has a heating element cutoff if the reservoir
goes dry (in addition to a safety thermostat and safety steam release
valve).

Most accidents are the result of a cascade of failures - the key is not to
start the sequence. So mistake 1 was leaving the machine dry and mistake 2
was leaving it plugged in . Most manufacturers (or at least the lawyers who
write the instruction books) recommend leaving kitchen appliances unplugged
when not in use. That's what I do.



"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@hotmail.com > wrote in message show me a home
machine that has a shut off
> for anything other than excess heat. If your Silvia's high limit tstat
> fails, poof, it could be your turn next. What pissed me off is I
> relied on the GFI plug but I guess it never did short out. A real
> bummer! I suppose that when I get the LP Pro back I'll have to look
> into retro fitting a water level detector.
>
>




 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 18:34:19
From: wff_ng_7
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> The machine was plugged in with no water in it, but no problem if it's not
> switched on, right. You Peacock owner's will know what happens next; the
> power switch sticks out from the bottom of the base & if the machine is
> turned a bit to that side you cannot see the switch or the power on light.
> In my cleaning up after myself I must have pushed the machine into an
> airpot I keep next to it. The power was on for who knows how long, but I
> can tell you this - the friggin thermal fuse didn't blow, but the heating
> element sure did.

This is interesting because there is another recent thread ("Selling La
Pavoni Europiccola Lusso $300 or better offer") where it appears that the
thermal fuse didn't blow. Someone mentioned that thermal fuses are almost
foolproof. I'm not convinced. In the other case, I'm pretty sure it was the
resettable type rather than the one time type.

I know I've accidently turned my Pavoni on while cleaning around it. It is
quite easy to do. That's one reason I keep it unplugged and luckily there's
no one around to plug it back in by mistake. There's also always water in
it. What a run of bad luck you had, because it took several things in
sequence to cause the problem. 1) No water, 2) Gets plugged in by accident,
3) Gets turned on by accident, 4) Thermal fuse fails.

Sometimes fancy electronic protections don't solve the problem. There was a
subway car fire here last Sunday, and the cause was announced last night. It
was a software bug of all things! The control software for the motors and
regenerative braking had a flaw in it, and didn't turn off the resistor bank
when it was being overloaded. These were fairly new subway cars and the
software was even newer. They went back and did an emergency reprogram back
to the prior software version on most of the cars, and will complete the
rest today. Pretty amazing.

--
wff_ng_7 (at) verizon (dot) net



 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 11:09:37
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...


ANOTHER reason to despise the LP Euro. Unlike nearly all stock HX
machines, it does not have a cutoff when the water runs out (i.e.
'brainbox)

good the 'ol pad did not burn down!






 
Date: 13 Apr 2007 10:03:29
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Very disturbing coffee related event...
On Apr 13, 11:26 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>
> the things have dangerous flaws. I'm sure there are many other devices out
> there with similar or worse problems.

I've been tired and woke to find I left a stove burner element on. A
flatstove for mounting atop a pressed-cardboard kitchen counter.
Happens every year or two, when I remind myself I really ought to wire
a central control switch or at least a prevailing light into the stove
circuit. The water heater I wired so it's on a 240V timer that only
runs 30 minutes twice daily. The refrigerator is what's left.
Standing up the other day from crisper compartment, I leaned too far
forward and banged my head a good one on upper cross-member separating
the freezer compartment. Heisenberg's uncertainties, Norbert Wiener's
entropy, Occam's razor, Murphy's law, or Melville's ambiguities --
sometimes acts classifiable under nature, sometimes stupidity -- other
times, they're just abstract statistics good for before- and after-
pictures to an insurance agent. Condolences for a suitable
replacement.