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Date: 07 Jan 2007 08:29:52
From: david
Subject: Voltage & frequency problem
I brought my ECM from US to South east Asia and step down from 220v to
110v is the only converter I can get so far.

Any of you is there any affect on the coffee taste if my espresso
machine running with 110v/50Hz power instead of 110v/60Hz? Thx.





 
Date: 07 Jan 2007 21:23:11
From: david
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
Thanks alot for all of the respond gentlemen, I just wanna get some
confirmation before I spend some money on the step down transformer. It
cause me alot of trouble to brought this machine from US because of the
weight issue and I really want to use it in here.
You'll have a great day.



  
Date: 08 Jan 2007 08:36:15
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
david wrote:
> Thanks alot for all of the respond gentlemen, I just wanna get some
> confirmation before I spend some money on the step down transformer. It
> cause me alot of trouble to brought this machine from US because of the
> weight issue and I really want to use it in here.
> You'll have a great day.
>

In the UK at least, most builders etc use a heavy duty 115v
transformer to power their tools. These are usually bright yellow,
about 12" square, weigh a ton, and the output socket is an external
use waterproof socket (the same style as most UK caravan hookups etc).
These cost little 2nd hand (30 or so) and can be had with anything
upto 5 Kva output. See:

http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/product18.htm

for an example. The difference in cycles shouldn't affect anything
but the pump, which will run at a slightly different speed.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



   
Date: 08 Jan 2007 13:58:03
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007, Danny <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> david wrote:
> > Thanks alot for all of the respond gentlemen, I just wanna get some
> > confirmation before I spend some money on the step down transformer. It
> > cause me alot of trouble to brought this machine from US because of the
> > weight issue and I really want to use it in here.
> > You'll have a great day.
> >
>
> In the UK at least, most builders etc use a heavy duty 115v
> transformer to power their tools. These are usually bright yellow,
> about 12" square, weigh a ton, and the output socket is an external
> use waterproof socket (the same style as most UK caravan hookups etc).
> These cost little 2nd hand (30 or so) and can be had with anything
> upto 5 Kva output. See:

Be aware that building site 110V is slightly different to most house
supplies, in that it's centre-tapped. That is, one of those yellow
bricks actually puts out +55V and -55V, which gives you 110V across
them, but each is only 55V from earth.

The idea is that unless you're really clumsy you'll probably only
give yourself a 55V shock.

I can't immediately see why this would be a problem, and it would be
poor design for a machine to assume earth is at a particular voltage,
but possibly worth knowing.

regards, Ian SMith
--


    
Date: 08 Jan 2007 23:40:51
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
This is similar to how we get our 240V service in the US - the pole
transformers are center tapped so you end up with 2 legs that are each 120V
from ground and opposite polarity, so it's 120V line to ground/neutral and
240V line to line. AFAIK, Euro espresso machines (and other devices) operate
just fine on this system though they are normally operated in their home
ket with one line (live) at 240V and the other at ground potential - as
you say in a well designed appliance the potential to ground from either
lead should make no difference as the appliance relies on the difference in
potential from lead to lead for its motive force and in any event power
leads should be isolated from ground inside the appliance.



"Ian Smith" <ian@astounding.org.uk > wrote in message
news:slrneq4jfb.rfv.ian@acheron.smithnet...
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2007, Danny <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>> david wrote:
>> > Thanks alot for all of the respond gentlemen, I just wanna get some
>> > confirmation before I spend some money on the step down transformer. It
>> > cause me alot of trouble to brought this machine from US because of the
>> > weight issue and I really want to use it in here.
>> > You'll have a great day.
>> >
>>
>> In the UK at least, most builders etc use a heavy duty 115v
>> transformer to power their tools. These are usually bright yellow,
>> about 12" square, weigh a ton, and the output socket is an external
>> use waterproof socket (the same style as most UK caravan hookups etc).
>> These cost little 2nd hand (30 or so) and can be had with anything
>> upto 5 Kva output. See:
>
> Be aware that building site 110V is slightly different to most house
> supplies, in that it's centre-tapped. That is, one of those yellow
> bricks actually puts out +55V and -55V, which gives you 110V across
> them, but each is only 55V from earth.
>
> The idea is that unless you're really clumsy you'll probably only
> give yourself a 55V shock.
>
> I can't immediately see why this would be a problem, and it would be
> poor design for a machine to assume earth is at a particular voltage,
> but possibly worth knowing.
>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
>


    
Date: 08 Jan 2007 14:08:42
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
Ian Smith wrote:

> Be aware that building site 110V is slightly different to most house
> supplies, in that it's centre-tapped. That is, one of those yellow
> bricks actually puts out +55V and -55V, which gives you 110V across
> them, but each is only 55V from earth.
>
> The idea is that unless you're really clumsy you'll probably only
> give yourself a 55V shock.
>
> I can't immediately see why this would be a problem, and it would be
> poor design for a machine to assume earth is at a particular voltage,
> but possibly worth knowing.
>
> regards, Ian SMith

Didn't know that, having never played with one, although I had one
here for ages before a builder friend took it off my hands...

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



 
Date: 07 Jan 2007 10:28:51
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
No effect

dave
services 120 and 220.
www.hitechespresso.com



  
Date: 12 Jan 2007 22:46:17
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
ginal effect, but can never get a definitive answer, due to change in
frequency...

> No effect
>
> dave
> services 120 and 220.
> www.hitechespresso.com
>




 
Date: 07 Jan 2007 11:21:24
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
On 7 Jan 2007 08:29:52 -0800, "david" <dtanuwi@gmail.com > wrote:

>I brought my ECM from US to South east Asia and step down from 220v to
>110v is the only converter I can get so far.
>
>Any of you is there any affect on the coffee taste if my espresso
>machine running with 110v/50Hz power instead of 110v/60Hz? Thx.

It'll work fine, there's no electronic parts in it that are frequency
sensitive. However, the pump pressure or unimpreded flow ratemay be
slightly different.

However, a 15 amp stepdown transformer can be fairly expensive. It may
be easier to swap out the heater, pump, and redo the power leads on
the autofill box. All the other items work at both 110V and 220V


  
Date: 08 Jan 2007 21:15:12
From: Paul Vojta
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
In article <qoa2q2psaj6o9g7eq6bmp57loq9q2vpjhg@4ax.com >,
jim schulman <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:
>However, a 15 amp stepdown transformer can be fairly expensive. It may
>be easier to swap out the heater, pump, and redo the power leads on
>the autofill box. All the other items work at both 110V and 220V

Don't forget all of the light bulbs.

--Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu


   
Date: 08 Jan 2007 19:07:51
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:15:12 +0000 (UTC), vojta@math.berkeley.edu (Paul
Vojta) wrote:

>Don't forget all of the light bulbs.

They'll work better; the Italians never bother changing out the
mini-neons for 110V


 
Date: 07 Jan 2007 16:53:12
From: VicTek
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem

"david" <dtanuwi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168187392.639207.80080@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
>I brought my ECM from US to South east Asia and step down from 220v to
> 110v is the only converter I can get so far.
>
> Any of you is there any affect on the coffee taste if my espresso
> machine running with 110v/50Hz power instead of 110v/60Hz? Thx.
>
FWIW, it may not be enough to adjust the voltage. Some years ago I took an
amplifier to Europe from the US and the main transformer fried because of
the different AC frequency.




  
Date: 07 Jan 2007 17:24:35
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:53:12 GMT, VicTek <abc@xyz.com > wrote:
>
> "david" <dtanuwi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168187392.639207.80080@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> >I brought my ECM from US to South east Asia and step down from 220v to
> > 110v is the only converter I can get so far.
> >
> > Any of you is there any affect on the coffee taste if my espresso
> > machine running with 110v/50Hz power instead of 110v/60Hz? Thx.
> >
> FWIW, it may not be enough to adjust the voltage. Some years ago I took an
> amplifier to Europe from the US and the main transformer fried because of
> the different AC frequency.

In general, the lower the frequency, the bigger the transformer you
need. Or, if you lower the frequency, a given transformer will have a
lower power capability. I'm slightly surprised that an amplifier
would be running so close to the limit that a drop from 60 to 50Hz
would do it, but there is at least a mechanism that explains why the
transformer might suffer.

I can't see any such explanation for why a typical coffee machine
would suffer likewise.

regards, Ian SMith
--


   
Date: 07 Jan 2007 22:32:19
From: VicTek
Subject: Re: Voltage & frequency problem
>> >I brought my ECM from US to South east Asia and step down from 220v to
>> > 110v is the only converter I can get so far.
>> >
>> > Any of you is there any affect on the coffee taste if my espresso
>> > machine running with 110v/50Hz power instead of 110v/60Hz? Thx.
>> >
>> FWIW, it may not be enough to adjust the voltage. Some years ago I took
>> an
>> amplifier to Europe from the US and the main transformer fried because
>> of
>> the different AC frequency.
>
> In general, the lower the frequency, the bigger the transformer you
> need. Or, if you lower the frequency, a given transformer will have a
> lower power capability. I'm slightly surprised that an amplifier
> would be running so close to the limit that a drop from 60 to 50Hz
> would do it, but there is at least a mechanism that explains why the
> transformer might suffer.

This was a new guitar amplifier in 1969. It burned out a minute or two
after I plugged it in at my European location. I had no clue at the time
why it failed, so I shipped it back to the states where it was repaired
under warranty. When it was returned to me I plugged it in and it burned
out again in one or two minutes, sigh <g >. Finally I took it to a European
electronics shop. They explained what was going on and installed a
compatible transformer. I don't know enough about electronics to understand
what was actually going on though.