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Date: 21 May 2007 18:33:40
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: What a let down {:-(
What a %#@*ing bummer!

I've been waiting forever it seems for the Antigua Coffee House to open here
in Pearland. This Wednesday is the official opening but I dropped by for a
freebie today to see how things were going, and it's not promising at all.
{:-(

It seems that Juan's focus is going to be on roasting & selling coffee beans
& coffee by the cup. Although he's invested in two new Grindmaster 2-group
machines there are no *NONE, NADA, ZIP* espresso grinders anywhere to be
seen! My double was made from grounds dipped from a Tupperware container & I
was told that the house coffee was going to be ground fresh every morning
(and afternoon if needed) in one of two Bunn coffee grinders.

My shot was under extracted & sour. I asked what temp they were shooting for
& I got a blank look that left me & my coffee cold. I had high hopes for
Juan's shop, as it's the only one that roasts their own beans. I assumed the
presence of a Dietrich roaster to be an indicator of a certain level of
knowledge about coffee, and it may be that Juan is an experienced roaster,
but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know how
to pull an acceptable double espresso?

Well, maybe there's room for a CG'r or AC'r to drop by & pitch the guy some
classes on proper espresso technique. I hope so because I really wanted to
have a sit-down coffee house where I could bat the breeze & talk coffee.
--
Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
newsgroup!) Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.






 
Date: 27 May 2007 00:34:51
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Finding the keyboard operational
Robert Harmon entered:

> What a %#@*ing bummer!
>
> I've been waiting forever it seems for the Antigua Coffee House to
> open here in Pearland. This Wednesday is the official opening but I
> dropped by for a freebie today to see how things were going, and it's
> not promising at all. {:-(
>
> It seems that Juan's focus is going to be on roasting & selling
> coffee beans & coffee by the cup. Although he's invested in two new
> Grindmaster 2-group machines there are no *NONE, NADA, ZIP* espresso
> grinders anywhere to be seen! My double was made from grounds dipped
> from a Tupperware container & I was told that the house coffee was
> going to be ground fresh every morning (and afternoon if needed) in
> one of two Bunn coffee grinders.
> My shot was under extracted & sour. I asked what temp they were
> shooting for & I got a blank look that left me & my coffee cold. I
> had high hopes for Juan's shop, as it's the only one that roasts
> their own beans. I assumed the presence of a Dietrich roaster to be
> an indicator of a certain level of knowledge about coffee, and it may
> be that Juan is an experienced roaster, but how much expertise would
> you give him credit for if they didn't know how to pull an acceptable
> double espresso?
> Well, maybe there's room for a CG'r or AC'r to drop by & pitch the
> guy some classes on proper espresso technique. I hope so because I
> really wanted to have a sit-down coffee house where I could bat the
> breeze & talk coffee. --
> Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
> newsgroup!) Harmon

I think you might be rushing to judgement here. Maybe Juan's espresso
grinder is held up in shipping or worse yet, DOA and he's awaiting a
replacement.
And to be fair the days preceding the official opening may not be the best
time to judge a shops expertise. I remember not knowing which way was up for
a few days around that time.
Go back next week and the week after that before you makea final decision.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com



 
Date: 23 May 2007 07:46:17
From: karlseidel
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Hi Robert,

<So you're saying we should give new businesses a pass before we begin
the
critiques? Makes sense to me, it lets the bad habits become ingrained.
After
all, doesn't everyone know that it's far easier to change to proper
techniques after learning poor ones than it is to learn them from the
beginning? >

Your reply sounds facetious to me. No, don't give Juan a pass. Develop
a relationship. Get to know him. Express interest in his coffee and
his success and then he will want to serve you.

My reference to the "god-shot" was hyperbole because I read the
expectations you've come to the table with (right here on AC).

My advice - don't get cynical - give Juan a chance. Be a friendly
human!

On May 22, 10:27 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> Howdy Karl!
>
> At least in *my* recent experience folks who consume coffee away from home
> mostly drink espresso based beverages. This does not include restaurants
> where it's more common to have a cup of coffee after dinner, either with or
> without dessert. Since lattes, cappuccinos, etc., are based on espresso the
> assumption is that better espresso makes better drinks overall (I may be
> wrong here since I don't do milk drinks other than cafe au laittes). And
> there was no reference to a god shot - I merely said the coffee was stale,
> poorly ground, improperly dosed, & brewed at too low a temp.
>
> The owner cared enough about quality to spend many thousands of dollars to
> equipment the coffee house. My assumption was that you'd think he'd learn
> the basics *before* opening the doors. You know the old saw, "You only get
> one chance to make a good impression." And, I've had samples of the coffee
> roasted at the place & the blends were pretty tasty. I'd say that if he's
> not an experienced roaster then he's been very lucky.
>
> So you're saying we should give new businesses a pass before we begin the
> critiques? Makes sense to me, it lets the bad habits become ingrained. After
> all, doesn't everyone know that it's far easier to change to proper
> techniques after learning poor ones than it is to learn them from the
> beginning?
> --
> Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
> newsgroup!) Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here.
>
> Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email."karlseidel" <karl.sei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179840952.557721.228660@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Wow - lots of assumptions you've made! How many people in Pearland do
> > you think are looking for an espresso drink? What makes you think that
> > Juan can hold his own as a roaster from the very beginning of his
> > enterprise? I suspect he won't learn "proper espresso technique"
> > unless there is an overwhelming demand for espresso in Pearland (wow -
> > what a concept - espresso in Pearland!) and if I were just opening
> > business I'd ask my customers what they wanted before investing time,
> > money and energy into what may be a dead end pursuit. Keep in mind
> > that making espresso is a fairly recent pursuit in the U.S.A. for
> > general consumption - and unless you're a consumer bent on educating
> > your palate it's unlikely you'll just randomly be exposed to great
> > coffee - much less a decent espresso! And "AC'r 's" are a tiny group
> > that often argue among themselves about what a good expression of an
> > espresso is. I know some fairly well educated consumers in Los Angeles
> > (where I live), New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Las Vegas and other big
> > cities who are not sure what an espresso really is - nor do they care.
> > How about giving Juan a chance to get his feet wet as a roaster and a
> > business owner before encumbering him with your views on the value of
> > working towards a "god-shot." I'm sure he's at least as interested in
> > making a profit as he is making a decent cup of coffee.
>
> > On May 21, 11:33 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
> >> What a %#@*ing bummer!
>
> >> I've been waiting forever it seems for the Antigua Coffee House to open
> >> here
> >> in Pearland. This Wednesday is the official opening but I dropped by for
> >> a
> >> freebie today to see how things were going, and it's not promising at
> >> all.
> >> {:-(
>
> >> It seems that Juan's focus is going to be on roasting & selling coffee
> >> beans
> >> & coffee by the cup. Although he's invested in two new Grindmaster
> >> 2-group
> >> machines there are no *NONE, NADA, ZIP* espresso grinders anywhere to be
> >> seen! My double was made from grounds dipped from a Tupperware container
> >> & I
> >> was told that the house coffee was going to be ground fresh every morning
> >> (and afternoon if needed) in one of two Bunn coffee grinders.
>
> >> My shot was under extracted & sour. I asked what temp they were shooting
> >> for
> >> & I got a blank look that left me & my coffee cold. I had high hopes for
> >> Juan's shop, as it's the only one that roasts their own beans. I assumed
> >> the
> >> presence of a Dietrich roaster to be an indicator of a certain level of
> >> knowledge about coffee, and it may be that Juan is an experienced
> >> roaster,
> >> but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know
> >> how
> >> to pull an acceptable double espresso?
>
> >> Well, maybe there's room for a CG'r or AC'r to drop by & pitch the guy
> >> some
> >> classes on proper espresso technique. I hope so because I really wanted
> >> to
> >> have a sit-down coffee house where I could bat the breeze & talk coffee.
> >> --
> >> Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
> >> newsgroup!) Harmon
> >> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj-My coffee
> >> pages.http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87-My 'Guidelines For Newbies'
> >> page.http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2-I have things for sale here.
>
> >> Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.




 
Date: 22 May 2007 09:15:06
From: karlseidel
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Wow - lots of assumptions you've made! How many people in Pearland do
you think are looking for an espresso drink? What makes you think that
Juan can hold his own as a roaster from the very beginning of his
enterprise? I suspect he won't learn "proper espresso technique"
unless there is an overwhelming demand for espresso in Pearland (wow -
what a concept - espresso in Pearland!) and if I were just opening
business I'd ask my customers what they wanted before investing time,
money and energy into what may be a dead end pursuit. Keep in mind
that making espresso is a fairly recent pursuit in the U.S.A. for
general consumption - and unless you're a consumer bent on educating
your palate it's unlikely you'll just randomly be exposed to great
coffee - much less a decent espresso! And "AC'r 's" are a tiny group
that often argue among themselves about what a good expression of an
espresso is. I know some fairly well educated consumers in Los Angeles
(where I live), New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Las Vegas and other big
cities who are not sure what an espresso really is - nor do they care.
How about giving Juan a chance to get his feet wet as a roaster and a
business owner before encumbering him with your views on the value of
working towards a "god-shot." I'm sure he's at least as interested in
making a profit as he is making a decent cup of coffee.

On May 21, 11:33 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> What a %#@*ing bummer!
>
> I've been waiting forever it seems for the Antigua Coffee House to open here
> in Pearland. This Wednesday is the official opening but I dropped by for a
> freebie today to see how things were going, and it's not promising at all.
> {:-(
>
> It seems that Juan's focus is going to be on roasting & selling coffee beans
> & coffee by the cup. Although he's invested in two new Grindmaster 2-group
> machines there are no *NONE, NADA, ZIP* espresso grinders anywhere to be
> seen! My double was made from grounds dipped from a Tupperware container & I
> was told that the house coffee was going to be ground fresh every morning
> (and afternoon if needed) in one of two Bunn coffee grinders.
>
> My shot was under extracted & sour. I asked what temp they were shooting for
> & I got a blank look that left me & my coffee cold. I had high hopes for
> Juan's shop, as it's the only one that roasts their own beans. I assumed the
> presence of a Dietrich roaster to be an indicator of a certain level of
> knowledge about coffee, and it may be that Juan is an experienced roaster,
> but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know how
> to pull an acceptable double espresso?
>
> Well, maybe there's room for a CG'r or AC'r to drop by & pitch the guy some
> classes on proper espresso technique. I hope so because I really wanted to
> have a sit-down coffee house where I could bat the breeze & talk coffee.
> --
> Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
> newsgroup!) Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here.
>
> Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.




  
Date: 22 May 2007 17:27:58
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Howdy Karl!

At least in *my* recent experience folks who consume coffee away from home
mostly drink espresso based beverages. This does not include restaurants
where it's more common to have a cup of coffee after dinner, either with or
without dessert. Since lattes, cappuccinos, etc., are based on espresso the
assumption is that better espresso makes better drinks overall (I may be
wrong here since I don't do milk drinks other than cafe au laittes). And
there was no reference to a god shot - I merely said the coffee was stale,
poorly ground, improperly dosed, & brewed at too low a temp.

The owner cared enough about quality to spend many thousands of dollars to
equipment the coffee house. My assumption was that you'd think he'd learn
the basics *before* opening the doors. You know the old saw, "You only get
one chance to make a good impression." And, I've had samples of the coffee
roasted at the place & the blends were pretty tasty. I'd say that if he's
not an experienced roaster then he's been very lucky.

So you're saying we should give new businesses a pass before we begin the
critiques? Makes sense to me, it lets the bad habits become ingrained. After
all, doesn't everyone know that it's far easier to change to proper
techniques after learning poor ones than it is to learn them from the
beginning?
--
Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
newsgroup!) Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.
"karlseidel" <karl.seidel@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179840952.557721.228660@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> Wow - lots of assumptions you've made! How many people in Pearland do
> you think are looking for an espresso drink? What makes you think that
> Juan can hold his own as a roaster from the very beginning of his
> enterprise? I suspect he won't learn "proper espresso technique"
> unless there is an overwhelming demand for espresso in Pearland (wow -
> what a concept - espresso in Pearland!) and if I were just opening
> business I'd ask my customers what they wanted before investing time,
> money and energy into what may be a dead end pursuit. Keep in mind
> that making espresso is a fairly recent pursuit in the U.S.A. for
> general consumption - and unless you're a consumer bent on educating
> your palate it's unlikely you'll just randomly be exposed to great
> coffee - much less a decent espresso! And "AC'r 's" are a tiny group
> that often argue among themselves about what a good expression of an
> espresso is. I know some fairly well educated consumers in Los Angeles
> (where I live), New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Las Vegas and other big
> cities who are not sure what an espresso really is - nor do they care.
> How about giving Juan a chance to get his feet wet as a roaster and a
> business owner before encumbering him with your views on the value of
> working towards a "god-shot." I'm sure he's at least as interested in
> making a profit as he is making a decent cup of coffee.
>
> On May 21, 11:33 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>> What a %#@*ing bummer!
>>
>> I've been waiting forever it seems for the Antigua Coffee House to open
>> here
>> in Pearland. This Wednesday is the official opening but I dropped by for
>> a
>> freebie today to see how things were going, and it's not promising at
>> all.
>> {:-(
>>
>> It seems that Juan's focus is going to be on roasting & selling coffee
>> beans
>> & coffee by the cup. Although he's invested in two new Grindmaster
>> 2-group
>> machines there are no *NONE, NADA, ZIP* espresso grinders anywhere to be
>> seen! My double was made from grounds dipped from a Tupperware container
>> & I
>> was told that the house coffee was going to be ground fresh every morning
>> (and afternoon if needed) in one of two Bunn coffee grinders.
>>
>> My shot was under extracted & sour. I asked what temp they were shooting
>> for
>> & I got a blank look that left me & my coffee cold. I had high hopes for
>> Juan's shop, as it's the only one that roasts their own beans. I assumed
>> the
>> presence of a Dietrich roaster to be an indicator of a certain level of
>> knowledge about coffee, and it may be that Juan is an experienced
>> roaster,
>> but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know
>> how
>> to pull an acceptable double espresso?
>>
>> Well, maybe there's room for a CG'r or AC'r to drop by & pitch the guy
>> some
>> classes on proper espresso technique. I hope so because I really wanted
>> to
>> have a sit-down coffee house where I could bat the breeze & talk coffee.
>> --
>> Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
>> newsgroup!) Harmon
>> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee
>> pages.http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies'
>> page.http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here.
>>
>> Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.
>
>




   
Date: 27 May 2007 01:01:46
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Finding the keyboard operational
Robert Harmon entered:

> Howdy Karl!
>
> At least in *my* recent experience folks who consume coffee away from
> home mostly drink espresso based beverages. This does not include
> restaurants where it's more common to have a cup of coffee after
> dinner, either with or without dessert. Since lattes, cappuccinos,
> etc., are based on espresso the assumption is that better espresso
> makes better drinks overall (I may be wrong here since I don't do
> milk drinks other than cafe au laittes). And there was no reference
> to a god shot - I merely said the coffee was stale, poorly ground,
> improperly dosed, & brewed at too low a temp.
> The owner cared enough about quality to spend many thousands of
> dollars to equipment the coffee house. My assumption was that you'd
> think he'd learn the basics *before* opening the doors. You know the
> old saw, "You only get one chance to make a good impression." And,
> I've had samples of the coffee roasted at the place & the blends were
> pretty tasty. I'd say that if he's not an experienced roaster then
> he's been very lucky.
> So you're saying we should give new businesses a pass before we begin
> the critiques? Makes sense to me, it lets the bad habits become
> ingrained. After all, doesn't everyone know that it's far easier to
> change to proper techniques after learning poor ones than it is to
> learn them from the beginning?
> --
> Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
> newsgroup!) Harmon
>
Well our numbers don't agree with your experiances. Espresso and espresso
based drinks are running about 20% of coffee sales. But this small sample
size doesn't mean a thing.
I am not saying you should give Juan a "pass" but give him a chance. Go back
next week and let us know if you impression has changed.
Bob

--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com



 
Date: 22 May 2007 06:51:12
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
On Mon, 21 May 2007 18:33:40 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

>What a %#@*ing bummer!
>
>I've been waiting forever it seems for the Antigua Coffee House to open here
>in Pearland. This Wednesday is the official opening but I dropped by for a
>freebie today to see how things were going, and it's not promising at all.
>{:-(
>
>It seems that Juan's focus is going to be on roasting & selling coffee beans
>& coffee by the cup. Although he's invested in two new Grindmaster 2-group
>machines there are no *NONE, NADA, ZIP* espresso grinders anywhere to be
>seen! My double was made from grounds dipped from a Tupperware container & I
>was told that the house coffee was going to be ground fresh every morning
>(and afternoon if needed) in one of two Bunn coffee grinders.
>
>My shot was under extracted & sour. I asked what temp they were shooting for
>& I got a blank look that left me & my coffee cold. I had high hopes for
>Juan's shop, as it's the only one that roasts their own beans. I assumed the
>presence of a Dietrich roaster to be an indicator of a certain level of
>knowledge about coffee, and it may be that Juan is an experienced roaster,
>but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know how
>to pull an acceptable double espresso?
>
>Well, maybe there's room for a CG'r or AC'r to drop by & pitch the guy some
>classes on proper espresso technique. I hope so because I really wanted to
>have a sit-down coffee house where I could bat the breeze & talk coffee.
>--
>Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
>newsgroup!) Harmon

You can have a great coffee shop without serving a drop of espresso.
Brewed coffee can be your friend.

Marshall


  
Date: 22 May 2007 15:51:49
From:
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-( Espresso-Free Zone
On Tue, 22 May 2007 06:51:12 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>
>You can have a great coffee shop without serving a drop of espresso.
>Brewed coffee can be your friend.
>
>Marshall

Amen.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/05/21/DDGITP17061.DTL
From West Marin's Bovine Bakery. "I love the Bovine Bakery -- for its
name as well as its products....
I was waiting in line when I saw a sign: 'This is an espresso-free
establishment -- no lattes, no mocha -- just good, strong, organic
coffee.'"








_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.


   
Date: 22 May 2007 23:10:47
From: Steve
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-( Espresso-Free Zone
On Tue, 22 May 2007 15:51:49 -0700, Roque Ja wrote:

>On Tue, 22 May 2007 06:51:12 GMT, Marshall
><mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>You can have a great coffee shop without serving a drop of espresso.
>>Brewed coffee can be your friend.
>>
>>Marshall
>
>Amen.
>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/05/21/DDGITP17061.DTL
>From West Marin's Bovine Bakery. "I love the Bovine Bakery -- for its
>name as well as its products....
>I was waiting in line when I saw a sign: 'This is an espresso-free
>establishment -- no lattes, no mocha -- just good, strong, organic
>coffee.'"

She was serving Thanksgiving's coffee a while back, still the same?


  
Date: 22 May 2007 12:53:58
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
I fully understand what you're saying, Marshall. The investment in labor and
ingredients make espresso less attractive than drip coffee from the
retailers perspective. But with the demand for espresso based drinks, the
aspiring shop owners of today should at least pay lip service to the coffee
geeks and prepare the basic shot as well as possible. How can someone build
their future on a business which they don't understand and/or appreciate. I
mean, what's next for places like this - instant espresso added to hot
cocoa?
--
Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
newsgroup!) Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:4l4553hvchkr72kkp418lhmeg4v5h1515t@4ax.com...
snipped

>>but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know
>>how
>>to pull an acceptable double espresso?
>>--
>>Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
>>newsgroup!) Harmon
>
> You can have a great coffee shop without serving a drop of espresso.
> Brewed coffee can be your friend.
>
> Marshall




   
Date: 22 May 2007 14:39:27
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
On Tue, 22 May 2007 12:53:58 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

>I fully understand what you're saying, Marshall. The investment in labor and
>ingredients make espresso less attractive than drip coffee from the
>retailers perspective.

Actually the markups for milk and syrup may make "espresso-based
drinks" more attractive from a strictly economic perspective.

> But with the demand for espresso based drinks, the
>aspiring shop owners of today should at least pay lip service to the coffee
>geeks and prepare the basic shot as well as possible. How can someone build
>their future on a business which they don't understand and/or appreciate. I
>mean, what's next for places like this - instant espresso added to hot
>cocoa?

What's next? Maybe drip or Clover "only" bars.

If I were looking for a place to hang out and have a coffee, not just
sip 'n' run, I'd look for a place that took brewed coffee seriously.
If they didn't make a decent espresso, I wouldn't order espresso..

I think there is a tendency on Internet groups to treat espresso as
the be-all and end-all of coffee. It's certainly where my focus is.
But, I really do enjoy a brewed coffee now and then, especially when
I'm looking to relax with friends. How much camaraderie can there be
over 1-1/2 oz?

Marshall


    
Date: 22 May 2007 16:08:38
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in
news:djv553524hlho83fab73hf1r2cjqg6qvdc@4ax.com:

snipped

> I think there is a tendency on Internet groups to treat espresso as
> the be-all and end-all of coffee.

I haven't the slightest idea what you're referring to.

Robert (http://news.yahoo.com/comics/garfield) Harmon


    
Date: 22 May 2007 17:00:42
From: Danny
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Marshall wrote:
-snip-
> I think there is a tendency on Internet groups to treat espresso as
> the be-all and end-all of coffee. It's certainly where my focus is.
> But, I really do enjoy a brewed coffee now and then, especially when
> I'm looking to relax with friends. How much camaraderie can there be
> over 1-1/2 oz?

In France there is much camaraderie over 1 1/2 oz, since that is
almost exclusively what is drunk in cafes.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



     
Date: 22 May 2007 12:15:32
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Danny wrote:
> Marshall wrote:
> -snip-
>> I think there is a tendency on Internet groups to treat espresso as
>> the be-all and end-all of coffee. It's certainly where my focus is.
>> But, I really do enjoy a brewed coffee now and then, especially when
>> I'm looking to relax with friends. How much camaraderie can there be
>> over 1-1/2 oz?
>
> In France there is much camaraderie over 1 1/2 oz, since that is almost
> exclusively what is drunk in cafes.
>
>

Is that because the coffee is so bad nobody wants to drink it? Do they
just sit around holing the cups procrastinating?

R "sometimes small size is a blessing" TF


      
Date: 23 May 2007 09:55:24
From: Danny
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Moka Java wrote:

> Is that because the coffee is so bad nobody wants to drink it? Do they
> just sit around holing the cups procrastinating?

I'm sure you are right ;)


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



      
Date: 22 May 2007 17:41:42
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Brings to mind the Huey Lewis song;

"Bad Is Bad"

"Went uptown to see my cousin
Plays guitar, sounds like a chainsaw buzzin
In the crowd, I see his mom and dad
I said hey, hey uncle, man your son is bad

But sometimes, sometimes bad is bad
Cool is a rule, but, sometimes, bad is bad.

Across the street, a neon sign
All you can eat for a dollar ninety nine
Aww, that old stew is the baddest in the land
But one dollars worth was all that I could stand

But sometimes, sometimes bad is bad
Cool is a rule, but, sometimes, bad is bad.

Back uptown to see marie
Nobody home, I opened the door with my key
I love you, huey was the note I read
But theres a strange pair of shoes underneath the bed

But sometimes, sometimes bad is bad
Cool is a rule, but, sometimes, bad is bad"

And while I've had few espressos in France (why drink coffee when the local
wines are to die for?), I can honestly say they were worse than the typical
Italian shot - which is pretty much acknowledged as undrinkable. So I can't
imagine any other reason for the French to linger of a cup.
--
Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
newsgroup!) Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.
"Moka Java" <rtwatches@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:5bgj6sF2slh5vU1@mid.individual.net...
> Danny wrote:
>> Marshall wrote:
>> -snip-
>>> I think there is a tendency on Internet groups to treat espresso as
>>> the be-all and end-all of coffee. It's certainly where my focus is.
>>> But, I really do enjoy a brewed coffee now and then, especially when
>>> I'm looking to relax with friends. How much camaraderie can there be
>>> over 1-1/2 oz?
>>
>> In France there is much camaraderie over 1 1/2 oz, since that is almost
>> exclusively what is drunk in cafes.
>>
>>
>
> Is that because the coffee is so bad nobody wants to drink it? Do they
> just sit around holing the cups procrastinating?
>
> R "sometimes small size is a blessing" TF




    
Date: 22 May 2007 14:58:41
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Howdy Marshall!
I drink quite a bit more drip than espresso during the day too (does the
one-third chicory add-in still qualify it as coffee?). The best of the *old
style* coffee houses of the 50's & 60's were better known for their drip
coffee & that is still what "coffee house" means to me - that and some good
ol' beat poetry. I just feel that some exuberant sales person recognized an
opportunity & made a killing without helping the guy understand what the
expectations would be.

As far as comrade-ry, add a few Amaretti di Sarrono cookies & the pace slows
down considerably.

Actually most of my coffee groupies hang out at my house; better coffee,
cheaper (free), no customers to get upset when the backgammon & dominoes
games heat up, & you can't beat the hours (I'm usually up by 6:30 & NASA
keeps the Ol' Ball & Chain busy 'til 5(ish).

But having a coffee house to hang out at would be nice (who cares if a cafe
au laitte gets dumped on its carpet?).
--
Robert (Please don't buy from folks that post advertisements in this
newsgroup!) Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

Remove "ZED" from address if replying by email.
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:djv553524hlho83fab73hf1r2cjqg6qvdc@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 May 2007 12:53:58 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I fully understand what you're saying, Marshall. The investment in labor
>>and
>>ingredients make espresso less attractive than drip coffee from the
>>retailers perspective.
>
> Actually the markups for milk and syrup may make "espresso-based
> drinks" more attractive from a strictly economic perspective.
>
>> But with the demand for espresso based drinks, the
>>aspiring shop owners of today should at least pay lip service to the
>>coffee
>>geeks and prepare the basic shot as well as possible. How can someone
>>build
>>their future on a business which they don't understand and/or appreciate.
>>I
>>mean, what's next for places like this - instant espresso added to hot
>>cocoa?
>
> What's next? Maybe drip or Clover "only" bars.
>
> If I were looking for a place to hang out and have a coffee, not just
> sip 'n' run, I'd look for a place that took brewed coffee seriously.
> If they didn't make a decent espresso, I wouldn't order espresso..
>
> I think there is a tendency on Internet groups to treat espresso as
> the be-all and end-all of coffee. It's certainly where my focus is.
> But, I really do enjoy a brewed coffee now and then, especially when
> I'm looking to relax with friends. How much camaraderie can there be
> over 1-1/2 oz?
>
> Marshall




 
Date: 21 May 2007 14:27:11
From: bernie
Subject: Re: What a let down {:-(
Robert Harmon wrote:
> and it may be that Juan is an experienced roaster,
> but how much expertise would you give him credit for if they didn't know how
> to pull an acceptable double espresso?
>
>

No experienced roaster that I have been aquainted with in, oh, 20
years would do that to his coffee. Just goes to show that buying a
roaster does not a roastmaster make.
Bernie (roasting 10 years and not a roastmaster yet)