coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 26 Nov 2006 19:52:11
From: Tim Mckenzie
Subject: When coffee tastes wrong......
Roasted some Brazil Caxambu yesterday, I had gotten hold of 5 KG's of it
in August and hadn't tried it yet (either as SO or blend).
Usually do a bean as an SO first time out so my not-so-sophisticated
palate can try to determine some of it's characteristics.
Noticed when I was loading the roaster that the beans had some patches
that were a lurid, bright green colour as well as some with dark green
(almost black) patches.
Roasted to just after 2nd crack and put it to bed.
Jumped straight into it this morning (without the normally approved
"resting period" because I am slack and had no roasted coffee on hand
other than the fresh roast)
What I discovered was a strange, acrid chemical flavour not dissimilar
to ethyl alcohol ("metho").
Roasted beans smelt very strongly of this also. Coffee was so bad I had
to turf it.
This is not my first disappointing experience with Brazilian beans.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I'm not a master-roaster with my Gene Cafe 300 GM 'er but I've been
roasting about 3 years and apart from a couple of incinerations, have
rarely stuffed it up this badly.

Tim




 
Date: 10 Dec 2006 08:24:03
From:
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
Please see my article on Purchasing and Storing Coffee posted today.


Tim Mckenzie wrote:
> Roasted some Brazil Caxambu yesterday, I had gotten hold of 5 KG's of it
> in August and hadn't tried it yet (either as SO or blend).
> Usually do a bean as an SO first time out so my not-so-sophisticated
> palate can try to determine some of it's characteristics.
> Noticed when I was loading the roaster that the beans had some patches
> that were a lurid, bright green colour as well as some with dark green
> (almost black) patches.
> Roasted to just after 2nd crack and put it to bed.
> Jumped straight into it this morning (without the normally approved
> "resting period" because I am slack and had no roasted coffee on hand
> other than the fresh roast)
> What I discovered was a strange, acrid chemical flavour not dissimilar
> to ethyl alcohol ("metho").
> Roasted beans smelt very strongly of this also. Coffee was so bad I had
> to turf it.
> This is not my first disappointing experience with Brazilian beans.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions?
>
> I'm not a master-roaster with my Gene Cafe 300 GM 'er but I've been
> roasting about 3 years and apart from a couple of incinerations, have
> rarely stuffed it up this badly.
>
> Tim



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 16:41:02
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie <tim_mckenzie@netspace.net.au > wrote:

> Noticed when I was loading the roaster that the beans had some patches
> that were a lurid, bright green colour as well as some with dark green
> (almost black) patches.

Rotten.

I once spilled a load of green beans on the path on teh way from house
to garage, and was in a hurry so didn't c;lear them up immediately.
A few days lying in puddles on the ground, and they went bright, lurid
green. I didn't sweep them up for roasting and tasting, however...

regards, Ian SMith
--


 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 09:56:50
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:52:11 +1100, Tim Mckenzie
<tim_mckenzie@netspace.net.au > wrote:

>Noticed when I was loading the roaster that the beans had some patches
>that were a lurid, bright green colour as well as some with dark green
>(almost black) patches.

Only time I've sen lurid green and black is on a batch of Vietnamese
Arabica. Those were fermented too, and tasted of spam. Methyl and
aldehyde are also ferment flavors. Rio is acrid like iodine, and is
apparently caused by a fungus.

Try another roast after picking out the offending beans. If that
doesn't work, discrad the lot.

The bulk of Brazilian coffee is at this level; if these were bargain
beans, you'll know what yiou'll get next time. If they were sold as
specialty grade (i.e. zero defect), then you've been ripped.


  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 06:29:55
From: pheasant
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
jim schulman wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:52:11 +1100, Tim Mckenzie
> <tim_mckenzie@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>>Noticed when I was loading the roaster that the beans had some patches
>>that were a lurid, bright green colour as well as some with dark green
>>(almost black) patches.
>
>
> Only time I've sen lurid green and black is on a batch of Vietnamese
> Arabica. Those were fermented too, and tasted of spam. Methyl and
> aldehyde are also ferment flavors. Rio is acrid like iodine, and is
> apparently caused by a fungus.
>
> Try another roast after picking out the offending beans. If that
> doesn't work, discrad the lot.
>
> The bulk of Brazilian coffee is at this level; if these were bargain
> beans, you'll know what yiou'll get next time. If they were sold as
> specialty grade (i.e. zero defect), then you've been ripped.

Roasted up a batch of Sulawesi Torajs when first arrived, took it to
work so it only had 6 hours to rest before I started using it. That
batch maintained it's excellent quality until the batch was used up.
(about 4 days)

Roasted some more last Saturday, to what seemed about the same endpoint,
let it rest 2 days took to work, the aroma of the grounds smelled more
like a Colombian bean than the slightly "funny" tuna fishy aroma that
seems to accompany the Indonesian. Brewed a cup, it tasted worse than
the stuff that cooks in the break room for 3+ hours from whatever was on
sale at the store.

Talked with my mentor on roasting, he sent me a link to Sweetia's on
characteristics of this variety. Know about the uneven roast colors,
and other info about the bean, but just looking for other opinions on
what may have caused this huge swing in quality from the same lot of
beans. I have some idea but rather than bias any replies will just
throw this out to the forum for help.



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 14:27:19
From: jw
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie scribed thusly to all in
alt.coffee the following inspiration:

[...]

> Jumped straight into it this morning (without the normally approved
> "resting period" because I am slack and had no roasted coffee on hand
> other than the fresh roast)

[...]

Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period" after
roasting coffee?

--
jw

"It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things
never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal
answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but life
is on a stroll. This is how God does things."
-- Donald Miller


  
Date: 03 Dec 2006 09:03:16
From: Michael Horowitz
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:27:19 GMT, jw <notareal@emailaddress.com >
wrote:

>
>Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period" after
>roasting coffee?

time to out-gas; I hear anywhere between 4 and 24 hrs. I spilt the
difference. - MIke



  
Date: 26 Nov 2006 15:50:19
From: jw
Subject: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, jw scribed thusly to all in
alt.coffee the following inspiration:

> It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie scribed thusly to
> all in alt.coffee the following inspiration:
>
> [...]
>
>> Jumped straight into it this morning (without the normally approved
>> "resting period" because I am slack and had no roasted coffee on hand
>> other than the fresh roast)
>
> [...]
>
> Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period"
> after roasting coffee?

Tim, sorry for the threadjack. I should have changed subject lines.

--
jw

"It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things
never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal
answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but life
is on a stroll. This is how God does things."
-- Donald Miller


   
Date: 27 Nov 2006 07:08:52
From: Tim Mckenzie
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
jw wrote:
> It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, jw scribed thusly to all in
> alt.coffee the following inspiration:
>
>> It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie scribed thusly to
>> all in alt.coffee the following inspiration:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Jumped straight into it this morning (without the normally approved
>>> "resting period" because I am slack and had no roasted coffee on hand
>>> other than the fresh roast)
>> [...]
>>
>> Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period"
>> after roasting coffee?
>
> Tim, sorry for the threadjack. I should have changed subject lines.
>
Thats OK :-)

My toungue was in my cheek when I wrote "approved" resting period a la
all the stuff we've all read in the past. "Degassing, resting, etc" I'm
usually in too much hurry for a coffee (shame, oh shame). I have been
known to throw 'em in the grinder-hopper hot!!

(Geez, what a philistine I am)


    
Date: 26 Nov 2006 13:51:51
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
Tim Mckenzie <tim_mckenzie@netspace.net.au > wrote:

>My toungue was in my cheek when I wrote "approved" resting period a la
>all the stuff we've all read in the past. "Degassing, resting, etc" I'm
>usually in too much hurry for a coffee (shame, oh shame). I have been
>known to throw 'em in the grinder-hopper hot!!
>

I have had a pot of coffee brewed from Colombian that was LITERALLY
still warm, taken from the cooling tray and placed right into the
grinder, ground into a paper filter, and straight into the Bunn at a
commercial roaster's facility. It was delicious!

On the other hand, beans for espresso do improve after a rest, some
more than others. For example, Malabar Gold, which is best at a
'light' roast (just into second with no oil showing) really does well
with a 48 hours' rest.


Randy "YRLMV" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




     
Date: 27 Nov 2006 15:19:09
From: Brent
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
some do, some don't

:)


> On the other hand, beans for espresso do improve after a rest, some
> more than others. For example, Malabar Gold, which is best at a
> 'light' roast (just into second with no oil showing) really does well
> with a 48 hours' rest.
>
>
> Randy "YRLMV" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>




      
Date: 26 Nov 2006 21:45:29
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
Ooooohhhhhh... I get it now! That's actually really funny! LOL!
:-D
Randy "can joke a good take as guy as the next good" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



"Brent" <me@privacy.net > wrote:
>
>some do, some don't
>
>:)

>
>> On the other hand, beans for espresso do improve after a rest, some
>> more than others. For example, Malabar Gold, which is best at a
>> 'light' roast (just into second with no oil showing) really does well
>> with a 48 hours' rest.
>>


       
Date: 27 Nov 2006 20:30:04
From: Brent
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
trimmed correctly now...

but it is all a matter of taste...


> Ooooohhhhhh... I get it now! That's actually really funny! LOL!
> :-D
> Randy "can joke a good take as guy as the next good" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
> "Brent" <> wrote:
>>
>>some do, some don't
>>
>>:)
>
>>
>>> On the other hand, beans for espresso do improve after a rest, some
>>> more than others.




     
Date: 26 Nov 2006 16:54:47
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:gs2km25t6l1m6fl5vim1isri8srfm31g8n@4ax.com...
> Tim Mckenzie <tim_mckenzie@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>
>>My toungue was in my cheek when I wrote "approved" resting period a la
>>all the stuff we've all read in the past. "Degassing, resting, etc"
>>I'm
>>usually in too much hurry for a coffee (shame, oh shame). I have been
>>known to throw 'em in the grinder-hopper hot!!
>>
>
> I have had a pot of coffee brewed from Colombian that was LITERALLY
> still warm, taken from the cooling tray and placed right into the
> grinder, ground into a paper filter, and straight into the Bunn at a
> commercial roaster's facility. It was delicious!
>
> On the other hand, beans for espresso do improve after a rest, some
> more than others. For example, Malabar Gold, which is best at a
> 'light' roast (just into second with no oil showing) really does well
> with a 48 hours' rest.
>
>
> Randy "YRLMV" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>

Yes, same with a great Brazil I have too., 2 *Brazil Cerrado 17/18 FC
(Fine Cup) Natural D.P. "Monte Carmelo" Cerrado region, State of Minas
Gerais.
Craig.
www.andrewsgreenbeans.com



    
Date: 26 Nov 2006 20:26:03
From: jw
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie scribed thusly to all
in alt.coffee the following inspiration:

[...]

>>> Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period"
>>> after roasting coffee?
>>
>> Tim, sorry for the threadjack. I should have changed subject lines.
>>
> Thats OK :-)
>
> My toungue was in my cheek when I wrote "approved" resting period a la
> all the stuff we've all read in the past. "Degassing, resting, etc"
> I'm usually in too much hurry for a coffee (shame, oh shame). I have
> been known to throw 'em in the grinder-hopper hot!!
>
> (Geez, what a philistine I am)

I think I'm getting it. So, fresh from the roaster may not be optimum?
I have not yet received my roaster (Christmas present to myself--I've
been a good boy), but it says it has a "cool down" period in the cycle.
I'm assuming then, that there is some who believe a period of
resting/degassing (?) that will help the coffee be at its peak? Is it a
day? 1/2 hour?

You sir, may be a philistine, but I'm just plain ignorant. ;-)

--
jw

"It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things
never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal
answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but
life is on a stroll. This is how God does things."
-- Donald Miller


     
Date: 27 Nov 2006 15:18:40
From: Brent
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
depends...

how does it taste?


>
> I think I'm getting it. So, fresh from the roaster may not be optimum?
> I have not yet received my roaster (Christmas present to myself--I've
> been a good boy), but it says it has a "cool down" period in the cycle.
> I'm assuming then, that there is some who believe a period of
> resting/degassing (?) that will help the coffee be at its peak? Is it a
> day? 1/2 hour?
>
> You sir, may be a philistine, but I'm just plain ignorant. ;-)
>
> --
> jw
>
> "It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things
> never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal
> answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but
> life is on a stroll. This is how God does things."
> -- Donald Miller




     
Date: 26 Nov 2006 15:08:24
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
Overnight at least. Probably better to wait 12-18 hours.

"jw" <notareal@emailaddress.com > wrote in message
news:Xns988792D21818Cjwgmailemailaddress@127.0.0.1...
> It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie scribed thusly to all
> in alt.coffee the following inspiration:
>
> [...]
>
>>>> Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period"
>>>> after roasting coffee?
>>>
>>> Tim, sorry for the threadjack. I should have changed subject lines.
>>>
>> Thats OK :-)
>>
>> My toungue was in my cheek when I wrote "approved" resting period a la
>> all the stuff we've all read in the past. "Degassing, resting, etc"
>> I'm usually in too much hurry for a coffee (shame, oh shame). I have
>> been known to throw 'em in the grinder-hopper hot!!
>>
>> (Geez, what a philistine I am)
>
> I think I'm getting it. So, fresh from the roaster may not be optimum?
> I have not yet received my roaster (Christmas present to myself--I've
> been a good boy), but it says it has a "cool down" period in the cycle.
> I'm assuming then, that there is some who believe a period of
> resting/degassing (?) that will help the coffee be at its peak? Is it a
> day? 1/2 hour?
>
> You sir, may be a philistine, but I'm just plain ignorant. ;-)
>
> --
> jw
>
> "It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things
> never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal
> answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but
> life is on a stroll. This is how God does things."
> -- Donald Miller




     
Date: 26 Nov 2006 20:34:42
From: jw
Subject: Re: After Roasting Resting Period? (was Re: When coffee tastes wrong......)
It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, jw scribed thusly to all in
alt.coffee the following inspiration:

> It came to pass that on 26 Nov 2006, Tim Mckenzie scribed thusly to
> all in alt.coffee the following inspiration:
>
> [...]
>
>>>> Okay, I have to ask. What's the normally approved "resting period"
>>>> after roasting coffee?
>>>
>>> Tim, sorry for the threadjack. I should have changed subject lines.
>>>
>> Thats OK :-)
>>
>> My toungue was in my cheek when I wrote "approved" resting period a
>> la all the stuff we've all read in the past. "Degassing, resting,
>> etc" I'm usually in too much hurry for a coffee (shame, oh shame). I
>> have been known to throw 'em in the grinder-hopper hot!!
>>
>> (Geez, what a philistine I am)
>
> I think I'm getting it. So, fresh from the roaster may not be
> optimum? I have not yet received my roaster (Christmas present to
> myself--I've been a good boy), but it says it has a "cool down" period
> in the cycle. I'm assuming then, that there is some who believe a
> period of resting/degassing (?) that will help the coffee be at its
> peak? Is it a day? 1/2 hour?
>
> You sir, may be a philistine, but I'm just plain ignorant. ;-)

Okay, I found this thread. Sorry for jumping the gun before really
refining my google search.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/browse_frm/thread/2795dd225f86
4eb1/929104b4fa4ab018?lnk=gst&q=resting&rnum=2#929104b4fa4ab018

--
jw

"It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things
never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal
answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but
life is on a stroll. This is how God does things."
-- Donald Miller


 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 09:31:22
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
>Anyone have any suggestions?

Look up "Rioy" as a bean description.


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 07:18:46
From: Tim Mckenzie
Subject: Re: When coffee tastes wrong......
Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Look up "Rioy" as a bean description.
>
>
Thanks for the tip Alan, that description was bang-on:

"rio:
With particular reference to Brazils, an iodine-like flavor that
can be very pungent.

rioy:
A taste fault giving the coffee beans a highly pronounced medicinal
character. Result of continued enzyme activity when coffee beans remain
in the fruit and the fruit dries on the shrub. Usually associated with
natural processed coffees grown in Brazil. Typified by coffees grown in
the Rio district of Brazil."

I've turfed 'em all.

My bean supplier (a good friend) got a couple of big bags of the stuff,
one was good, one not good. Luckily, very little of the bum bag had been
distributed.
All taste defects aside, I don't wanna sound like a heretic but I've
never (in my very limited experience) had a Brazilian bean that's really
knocked me out. Not in the same way a Yirgi or Guat can.


Tim