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Date: 20 Jan 2007 16:49:57
From: Z @ R
Subject: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ago.
It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic than
this superautomatic.

Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:

- It's very important it has a good foamer
- I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do some,
like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).

I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any more
I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
Thanks!

--

- Jonathan
\







 
Date: 21 Jan 2007 21:15:16
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
=A3 =CE Z @ R =D0 wrote:
> I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ago.
> It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic than
> this superautomatic.
>
> Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>
> - It's very important it has a good foamer
> - I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do som=
e,
> like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>
> I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
> Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any mo=
re
> I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
> - Jonathan
> \

Another approach would be to spend $300-$700 on a Mazzer-class grinder,
plus another $500 on a Rancilio Silvia. Use the Silvia for 6 mos, or a
year, while you do your research and decide which higher class machine
best suits.

Buy the new machine and sell the Silvia on eBay for $400.

You could probably accomplish the same thing with another $500 single
boiler machine, but the Silvia is well known for holding resale value.

Jim



  
Date: 21 Jan 2007 23:32:03
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
I'd get a stepless Macap or a Mazzer, and then any of the machines at
Chriscoffee that suit you: the Vetrano or Alex or La Spaziale Vivaldi II,
for example, and a $15 heavy duty timer.

C

"jggall01" <jggall01@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1169442916.137132.93840@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Z @ R wrote:
> I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ago.
> It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic than
> this superautomatic.
>
> Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>
> - It's very important it has a good foamer
> - I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do
> some,
> like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>
> I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
> Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any
> more
> I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
> - Jonathan
> \

Another approach would be to spend $300-$700 on a Mazzer-class grinder,
plus another $500 on a Rancilio Silvia. Use the Silvia for 6 mos, or a
year, while you do your research and decide which higher class machine
best suits.

Buy the new machine and sell the Silvia on eBay for $400.

You could probably accomplish the same thing with another $500 single
boiler machine, but the Silvia is well known for holding resale value.

Jim




   
Date: 23 Jan 2007 08:16:18
From: Z @ R
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
> for example, and a $15 heavy duty timer.

Any recommendations on that timer?

--

- Jonathan
October 27, 2005 -- T H E C D S A R E H E R E !
E-mail me your mailing addresses for a FREE CD! No strings attached, even
shipping is on me.
Go to www.guestroomproject.com and listen to some clips.
If you like what you hear, click on CONTACT ME to request a free CD.


"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:ep1p9n$1qq$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> I'd get a stepless Macap or a Mazzer, and then any of the machines at
> Chriscoffee that suit you: the Vetrano or Alex or La Spaziale Vivaldi II,
> for example, and a $15 heavy duty timer.
>
> C
>
> "jggall01" <jggall01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1169442916.137132.93840@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Z @ R wrote:
>> I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years
>> ago.
>> It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic
>> than
>> this superautomatic.
>>
>> Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>>
>> - It's very important it has a good foamer
>> - I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do
>> some,
>> like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>>
>> I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
>> Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any
>> more
>> I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>>
>> - Jonathan
>> \
>
> Another approach would be to spend $300-$700 on a Mazzer-class grinder,
> plus another $500 on a Rancilio Silvia. Use the Silvia for 6 mos, or a
> year, while you do your research and decide which higher class machine
> best suits.
>
> Buy the new machine and sell the Silvia on eBay for $400.
>
> You could probably accomplish the same thing with another $500 single
> boiler machine, but the Silvia is well known for holding resale value.
>
> Jim
>
>




 
Date: 22 Jan 2007 04:31:56
From: Karl Denninger
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?

In article <15-dnYuTyrUYEy_YnZ2dnUVZ_qWvnZ2d@adelphia.com >,
Z @ R <jattea@adelphia.net > wrote:
>
>
>I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ago.
>It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic than
>this superautomatic.
>
>Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>
> - It's very important it has a good foamer
>- I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do some,
>like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>
>I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
>Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any more
>I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
>Thanks!
>
>--
>
>- Jonathan

Your goals are in conflict with one another, and one of them is going to
have to give ground.

The 10-15 minute warmup cannot be met by a thermally-stable unit without
changes that nobody (yet) has made. Specifically, an actively heated group
with its own separate temperature management.

Most HX machines get "to working temperature" in 10 minutes or so. That is,
however, a misnomer. While the boiler is up to working temperature the
group is not, and if you try to pull a shot at that point you will not like
how it tastes one bit.

30 minutes is in fact too short for most machines to properly stabilize.
While you CAN pull shots from a Brewtus (or any other E61 machine) in 30
minutes from a cold start, if you really want the best results it needs to
be on for an hour or so from the point of a cold start.

Why not put the machine on a timer if you do not want to leave it powered up
all the time?

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind


  
Date: 22 Jan 2007 11:08:13
From: Z @ R
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
> Why not put the machine on a timer if you do not want to leave it powered
> up
> all the time?

Thank you for informing me on the reason for the long warm-up time. In my
research (priily on wholelattelove), I didn't come by that bit of
information.

If I were to leave the machine on 24 hours a day, what would that cost?
I.e., what kind of "light bulb equivalent? would that be? Would it cause
excess wear and tear on the machine?

Jonathan



"Karl Denninger" <karl@FS.denninger.net > wrote in message
news:07Xsh.42744$sE7.32489@newsfe21.lga...
>
> In article <15-dnYuTyrUYEy_YnZ2dnUVZ_qWvnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
> Z @ R <jattea@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ago.
>>It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic than
>>this superautomatic.
>>
>>Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>>
>> - It's very important it has a good foamer
>>- I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do
>>some,
>>like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>>
>>I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
>>Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any
>>more
>>I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
>>Thanks!
>>
>>--
>>
>>- Jonathan
>
> Your goals are in conflict with one another, and one of them is going to
> have to give ground.
>
> The 10-15 minute warmup cannot be met by a thermally-stable unit without
> changes that nobody (yet) has made. Specifically, an actively heated
> group
> with its own separate temperature management.
>
> Most HX machines get "to working temperature" in 10 minutes or so. That
> is,
> however, a misnomer. While the boiler is up to working temperature the
> group is not, and if you try to pull a shot at that point you will not
> like
> how it tastes one bit.
>
> 30 minutes is in fact too short for most machines to properly stabilize.
> While you CAN pull shots from a Brewtus (or any other E61 machine) in 30
> minutes from a cold start, if you really want the best results it needs to
> be on for an hour or so from the point of a cold start.
>
> Why not put the machine on a timer if you do not want to leave it powered
> up
> all the time?
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
> Activist
> http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
> http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
> http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind




   
Date: 22 Jan 2007 10:28:39
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
In article <OfCdnd6L3dVsfSnYnZ2dnUVZ_syunZ2d@adelphia.com >,
" Z @ R " <jattea@adelphia.net > wrote:

> > Why not put the machine on a timer if you do not want to leave it powered
> > up
> > all the time?
>
> Thank you for informing me on the reason for the long warm-up time. In my
> research (priily on wholelattelove), I didn't come by that bit of
> information.
>
> If I were to leave the machine on 24 hours a day, what would that cost?
> I.e., what kind of "light bulb equivalent? would that be? Would it cause
> excess wear and tear on the machine?
>
> Jonathan

Figure a lightbulb is 60-100 watts and most of the higher end espresso
machines are 1200 watts. The difference is that the espresso machine is
not alway consuming that much power, but it will be considerably more
than a light bulb.

Just listening to the 'clicks' of my Alex, I suspect that it is 'on'
about 50% of the time, on meaning heater running which is the biggest
power consumer. Assuming that is correct, Alex while on is equivalent
to a 600 watt light bulb.

Does that help or confuse?? ;-)


    
Date: 23 Jan 2007 23:33:49
From: Espressopithecus (Java Man)
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
In article <lloydparsons-E0CCF0.10283922012007@individual.net >,
lloydparsons@mac.com says...
> Just listening to the 'clicks' of my Alex, I suspect that it is 'on'
> about 50% of the time, on meaning heater running which is the biggest
> power consumer. Assuming that is correct, Alex while on is equivalent
> to a 600 watt light bulb.
>
If so, you may have a leak. The 1100 W heater on my Wega (unlagged
boiler) is on only ~ 20% of the time -- more like a 220W "bulb". You can
also expect to go through pressurestats more quickly with a 50% duty
cycle.

Rick


     
Date: 23 Jan 2007 19:09:36
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
In article <MPG.20203b3c25d0b50e98987c@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net >,
Espressopithecus (Java Man) <rickk@letterectomyTELUS.net > wrote:

> In article <lloydparsons-E0CCF0.10283922012007@individual.net>,
> lloydparsons@mac.com says...
> > Just listening to the 'clicks' of my Alex, I suspect that it is 'on'
> > about 50% of the time, on meaning heater running which is the biggest
> > power consumer. Assuming that is correct, Alex while on is equivalent
> > to a 600 watt light bulb.
> >
> If so, you may have a leak. The 1100 W heater on my Wega (unlagged
> boiler) is on only ~ 20% of the time -- more like a 220W "bulb". You can
> also expect to go through pressurestats more quickly with a 50% duty
> cycle.
>
> Rick

No leaks, but thanks for suggesting that. About the time I bought mine,
there was another person that had just got his and complained about the
'clicks' happening so often. Irritated him to the point that he
returned it for a different machine.

According to my observations and those of others, the Alex has a very
tight deadband that is causing this to happen.


      
Date: 24 Jan 2007 13:14:48
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <MPG.20203b3c25d0b50e98987c@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
> Espressopithecus (Java Man) <rickk@letterectomyTELUS.net> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <lloydparsons-E0CCF0.10283922012007@individual.net>,
>>lloydparsons@mac.com says...
>>
>>>Just listening to the 'clicks' of my Alex, I suspect that it is 'on'
>>>about 50% of the time, on meaning heater running which is the biggest
>>>power consumer. Assuming that is correct, Alex while on is equivalent
>>>to a 600 watt light bulb.
>>>
>>
>>If so, you may have a leak. The 1100 W heater on my Wega (unlagged
>>boiler) is on only ~ 20% of the time -- more like a 220W "bulb". You can
>>also expect to go through pressurestats more quickly with a 50% duty
>>cycle.
>>
>>Rick
>
>
> No leaks, but thanks for suggesting that. About the time I bought mine,
> there was another person that had just got his and complained about the
> 'clicks' happening so often. Irritated him to the point that he
> returned it for a different machine.
>
> According to my observations and those of others, the Alex has a very
> tight deadband that is causing this to happen.

The deadband on my Gaggia machines (Sirai stat) is .1 bar (1.1 - 1.2
bar), which results in many minutes between cycles. Even the 8.5
minute cycle on my large boiler machines wouldn't translate to 50%
cycles on the smaller boilers.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



    
Date: 22 Jan 2007 17:03:53
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> Figure a lightbulb is 60-100 watts and most of the higher end espresso
> machines are 1200 watts. The difference is that the espresso machine is
> not alway consuming that much power, but it will be considerably more
> than a light bulb.
>
> Just listening to the 'clicks' of my Alex, I suspect that it is 'on'
> about 50% of the time, on meaning heater running which is the biggest
> power consumer. Assuming that is correct, Alex while on is equivalent
> to a 600 watt light bulb.
>
> Does that help or confuse?? ;-)

Machines have an idle cycle - that is, how much time the elements come
on to maintain pressure (in a single boiler machine) when switched on
but not in use. My 3 group lever machine (with a 23 litre boiler)
switches the elements for 50 seconds every 8 minutes when at idle. In
the UK this equates to 50p/day, after insulating the boiler. A small
machine would use proprtionately less power (my machine consumes 3000w).

Insulating small boilers can also dramatically reduce power consumption.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



     
Date: 22 Jan 2007 11:20:55
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
In article <51k91vF1kq0k4U1@mid.individual.net >,
Danny <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>
> > Figure a lightbulb is 60-100 watts and most of the higher end espresso
> > machines are 1200 watts. The difference is that the espresso machine is
> > not alway consuming that much power, but it will be considerably more
> > than a light bulb.
> >
> > Just listening to the 'clicks' of my Alex, I suspect that it is 'on'
> > about 50% of the time, on meaning heater running which is the biggest
> > power consumer. Assuming that is correct, Alex while on is equivalent
> > to a 600 watt light bulb.
> >
> > Does that help or confuse?? ;-)
>
> Machines have an idle cycle - that is, how much time the elements come
> on to maintain pressure (in a single boiler machine) when switched on
> but not in use. My 3 group lever machine (with a 23 litre boiler)
> switches the elements for 50 seconds every 8 minutes when at idle. In
> the UK this equates to 50p/day, after insulating the boiler. A small
> machine would use proprtionately less power (my machine consumes 3000w).
>
> Insulating small boilers can also dramatically reduce power consumption.

Sitting at idle and not being used, I suspect that the bigger machines
will consume less overall power than the smaller units that are
constantly on/off with the heater.

Mine is nearly 50% heater time as I can hear and see the heater kick on
just sitting there. And yes, boiler insulation would certainly help
that. And that is why yours doesn't cycle as often, that very large
boiler helps with that a lot, even if it isn't insulated. That is just
a huge mass of heat.


      
Date: 22 Jan 2007 20:34:25
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> Sitting at idle and not being used, I suspect that the bigger machines
> will consume less overall power than the smaller units that are
> constantly on/off with the heater.
>
> Mine is nearly 50% heater time as I can hear and see the heater kick on
> just sitting there. And yes, boiler insulation would certainly help
> that. And that is why yours doesn't cycle as often, that very large
> boiler helps with that a lot, even if it isn't insulated. That is just
> a huge mass of heat.

I halved the power consumption during idle by lagging the boiler. It
used to cycle the elements for 58 seconds every 4 1/2 minutes, down to
48 seconds every 8 1/2 minutes after lagging. This is with the
pressurestat cycling between 1.1 - 1.2 bar. It takes more than 20
minutes for the machine to come to pressure from cold, so I just leave
it on (and have done for five years). It's a kitchen appliance too -
scrambled eggs and other vegetables on the steam wand, constant
boiling water for tea and cooking etc, stain removal from clothes on
the wand, and I've even powered steam toys (Mammod engines and tools)
from the wand :) It also dries clothes overnight :)


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



       
Date: 22 Jan 2007 14:35:33
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
"Danny" <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote in message
news:51klcnF1k25pqU1@mid.individual.net...
> It's a kitchen appliance too - scrambled eggs and other vegetables on the
> steam wand, constant boiling water for tea and cooking etc, stain removal
> from clothes on the wand, and I've even powered steam toys (Mammod engines
> and tools) from the wand :) It also dries clothes overnight :)
>
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>

Weren't you the guy who hooked your steam wand up to a hose and used it to
clean stubborn dirt and stains off the toilet?

ken




        
Date: 23 Jan 2007 02:34:20
From: Brian Colwell
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?

"Ken Fox" <morceaudemerdeThisMerdeGoes@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:51kp0nF1kdbgdU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Danny" <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote in message
> news:51klcnF1k25pqU1@mid.individual.net...
>> It's a kitchen appliance too - scrambled eggs and other vegetables on
>> the steam wand, constant boiling water for tea and cooking etc, stain
>> removal from clothes on the wand, and I've even powered steam toys
>> (Mammod engines and tools) from the wand :) It also dries clothes
>> overnight :)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Danny
>>
>> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
>> http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>>
>
> Weren't you the guy who hooked your steam wand up to a hose and used it to
> clean stubborn dirt and stains off the toilet?
>
> ken
>
>
Now I have heard everything :-))

BMC




        
Date: 22 Jan 2007 22:46:22
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
Ken Fox wrote:

> Weren't you the guy who hooked your steam wand up to a hose and used it to
> clean stubborn dirt and stains off the toilet?
>

No. The toilet is too far away.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



         
Date: 22 Jan 2007 19:11:59
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
"Danny" <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote in message
news:51kt44F1jfhpvU1@mid.individual.net...
> Ken Fox wrote:
>
>> Weren't you the guy who hooked your steam wand up to a hose and used it
>> to clean stubborn dirt and stains off the toilet?
>>
>
> No. The toilet is too far away.
>

You just need a longer hose--

ken




   
Date: 22 Jan 2007 09:20:38
From: GeeDubb
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?

" Z @ R " <jattea@adelphia.net > wrote in message
news:OfCdnd6L3dVsfSnYnZ2dnUVZ_syunZ2d@adelphia.com...
>> Why not put the machine on a timer if you do not want to leave it powered
>> up
>> all the time?
>
> Thank you for informing me on the reason for the long warm-up time. In my
> research (priily on wholelattelove), I didn't come by that bit of
> information.
>
> If I were to leave the machine on 24 hours a day, what would that cost?
> I.e., what kind of "light bulb equivalent? would that be? Would it cause
> excess wear and tear on the machine?
>
> Jonathan

when I bought my commercial machine I did a quick calculation (and
watching/recording the amount of time the heating element was on after temp
stability) that showed that firing up the machine everyday used more energy
than leaving it on all the time. It's also nice to have hot water all the
time as well since my wife drinks tea most of the time

Gary

>
>
>
> "Karl Denninger" <karl@FS.denninger.net> wrote in message
> news:07Xsh.42744$sE7.32489@newsfe21.lga...
>>
>> In article <15-dnYuTyrUYEy_YnZ2dnUVZ_qWvnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
>> Z @ R <jattea@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years
>>>ago.
>>>It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic
>>>than
>>>this superautomatic.
>>>
>>>Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>>>
>>> - It's very important it has a good foamer
>>>- I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do
>>>some,
>>>like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>>>
>>>I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
>>>Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any
>>>more
>>>I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and cons?
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>- Jonathan
>>
>> Your goals are in conflict with one another, and one of them is going to
>> have to give ground.
>>
>> The 10-15 minute warmup cannot be met by a thermally-stable unit without
>> changes that nobody (yet) has made. Specifically, an actively heated
>> group
>> with its own separate temperature management.
>>
>> Most HX machines get "to working temperature" in 10 minutes or so. That
>> is,
>> however, a misnomer. While the boiler is up to working temperature the
>> group is not, and if you try to pull a shot at that point you will not
>> like
>> how it tastes one bit.
>>
>> 30 minutes is in fact too short for most machines to properly stabilize.
>> While you CAN pull shots from a Brewtus (or any other E61 machine) in 30
>> minutes from a cold start, if you really want the best results it needs
>> to
>> be on for an hour or so from the point of a cold start.
>>
>> Why not put the machine on a timer if you do not want to leave it powered
>> up
>> all the time?
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
>> Activist
>> http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
>> http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
>> http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind
>
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Date: 20 Jan 2007 20:38:02
From: Heat + Beans
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
agree with Ken.
And don't be suprised if you find very few posts from people who say,
"I just bought a new XYZ and it really sucks."
tin (who just bought a La Spaziale and can't imagine why anyone with
half a brain would buy anything else
# :o))

Ken Fox wrote:
> "=A3 =CE Z @ R =D0" <jattea@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:15-dnYuTyrUYEy_YnZ2dnUVZ_qWvnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> >I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ag=
o=2E
> >It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic th=
an
> >this superautomatic.
> >
> > Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
> >
> > - It's very important it has a good foamer
> > - I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do
> > some, like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
> >
> > I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
> > Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any
> > more I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and
> > cons? Thanks!
> >
> > --
> >
> > - Jonathan
> > \
> >
> >
> >
>
> There is simply too much information out there on the whole range of
> machines that would both meet your needs and your means. You must buy bo=
th
> a very good espresso-capable grinder AND a decent espresso machine in ord=
er
> to make espresso. Whatever individuals may give you in response to your
> request is about 2% of what you could learn for yourself by spending some
> time over on machine-oriented websites such as:
>
> www.coffeegeek.com
>
> and
>
> www.home-barista.com
>
> Both of these websites have more machine reviews than you can possibly re=
ad,
> and discussion boards on which you can read responses to many of the same
> questions you would ask yourself were you to know enough about this stuff=
to
> ask the questions. If you buy something now or in the very near future
> based on other peoples' recommendations you are apt to find that you boug=
ht
> someone else's dream machine -- not your own.
>
> I suggest you NOT follow any particular recommendations given in response=
to
> your post because you clearly do not have enough of a knowledge base to be
> making this purchase at this time. Invest a few weeks in reading the huge
> quantities of information out there, and after you have learned enough to
> know what you want, then, maybe, ask some very much more specific questio=
ns
> about the 2 or 3 coherent choices you have narrowed down to.
>
> The above two websites are probably better venues for this sort of
> discussion than a.c. For one thing, the people who participate in those
> forums tend to be a little bit more enthusiastic about equipment, per se,
> then gets posted here. For another, there are about 10x as many people h=
ere
> (on a.c.) who own Silvias than anything else whereas on the other boards
> (judging from what gets posted there) it appears that there is a more wide
> range of equipment that is owned by many individuals, so you may get bett=
er
> comparison advice.
>=20
> ken



 
Date: 20 Jan 2007 19:25:48
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Which would you choose in the $1000 - $1800 range?
" Z @ R " <jattea@adelphia.net > wrote in message
news:15-dnYuTyrUYEy_YnZ2dnUVZ_qWvnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>I have a two year old Capresso E8, which I bought for $1000 two years ago.
>It makes great espresso, but I think I'd rather have a semi automatic than
>this superautomatic.
>
> Can I get some recommendations with the following considerations:
>
> - It's very important it has a good foamer
> - I'd like a warm up time of no more than 10 minutes. 15 max. (Why do
> some, like the brewtus, require 30 minutes??).
>
> I have a list of five I'm considering: The Pasquini Livia 90 Auto, ECM
> Giotto Premium, La Valentina Automatic, and the Brewtus. Are there any
> more I should add to this list of consideration? What are some pros and
> cons? Thanks!
>
> --
>
> - Jonathan
> \
>
>
>

There is simply too much information out there on the whole range of
machines that would both meet your needs and your means. You must buy both
a very good espresso-capable grinder AND a decent espresso machine in order
to make espresso. Whatever individuals may give you in response to your
request is about 2% of what you could learn for yourself by spending some
time over on machine-oriented websites such as:

www.coffeegeek.com

and

www.home-barista.com

Both of these websites have more machine reviews than you can possibly read,
and discussion boards on which you can read responses to many of the same
questions you would ask yourself were you to know enough about this stuff to
ask the questions. If you buy something now or in the very near future
based on other peoples' recommendations you are apt to find that you bought
someone else's dream machine -- not your own.

I suggest you NOT follow any particular recommendations given in response to
your post because you clearly do not have enough of a knowledge base to be
making this purchase at this time. Invest a few weeks in reading the huge
quantities of information out there, and after you have learned enough to
know what you want, then, maybe, ask some very much more specific questions
about the 2 or 3 coherent choices you have narrowed down to.

The above two websites are probably better venues for this sort of
discussion than a.c. For one thing, the people who participate in those
forums tend to be a little bit more enthusiastic about equipment, per se,
then gets posted here. For another, there are about 10x as many people here
(on a.c.) who own Silvias than anything else whereas on the other boards
(judging from what gets posted there) it appears that there is a more wide
range of equipment that is owned by many individuals, so you may get better
comparison advice.

ken