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Date: 31 Mar 2007 08:04:07
From:
Subject: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.

2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
element won't heat at all.

Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
looking out for our well-being.

This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either. Never
again, B&D.

DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!

Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ





 
Date: 01 Apr 2007 11:12:49
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
They keep erecting higher
> fences to keep people from cutting in on their ink/toner profits but they
> get beaten every time.
>

Yes, and most ink toner refills give INFERIOR results most of the
time.

I voided the service contracts of any of my customers who used refills
-- typically to save less than $10 a cartridge. who is gouging whom?




 
Date: 01 Apr 2007 10:36:49
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Jack Denver writes:
> B&D kitchen appliances nowadays are made
> in China by Windmere, maker of $10 hairdryers.

Windmere also made the floorstanding fan that I used to cool the
turtle tank during the Summer. It worked as long as I disassembled,
cleaned, and lubricated it once or twice a year.

> I suspect that these things all come from the
> same factory in China and get different names
> slapped on them.

I made a similar quip when I bought my first wireless router, except
the source was an industrial park in Taiwan. Of course, these things
are now made on the other side of the strait, and cost half as much.

This modern economy ... last month, I bought cabinet knobs from a CA
retailer, who had them drop-shipped from MN. They were made in China
(of course), and branded by a Newell Rubbermaid division
based in IL. Will anyone collect a tax for this transaction?


Felix



  
Date: 01 Apr 2007 15:17:59
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
It probably didn't have a bearing in it worthy of the name. I once changed
the electric motor on my attic fan - I looked at the old one and I've seen
more sophisticated bearings on the axle of Consetoga wagons. Then the
plastic cover dome rotted away in the sun and let the rain into my attic.
This BTW was a "Made in USA" product, albeit one made to sell at home
centers for the lowest possible price point. Einstein once said that every
problem should be simplified as much as possible, but not more. Likewise,
every product should be made as cheaply as possible, but not more. I'm
afraid we've gone into the realm of "more" with a lot of the stuff that is
sold nowadays.

At least you can throw out a $10 Windmere fan or $20 coffee maker when it
breaks. Stuff has been breaking/leaking on my Audi lately which makes me
suspect that they get their parts the same place that Windmere does. The
last thing to go was my heater core. The core was cheap enough but it was
something like 8 hrs. labor to dig it out of my dash.



"Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1175449009.736128.75480@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Windmere also made the floorstanding fan that I used to cool the
> turtle tank during the Summer. It worked as long as I disassembled,
> cleaned, and lubricated it once or twice a year.
>




   
Date: 01 Apr 2007 14:25:52
From: seastl
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:17:59 -0400, "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net >
wrote:

>It probably didn't have a bearing in it worthy of the name. I once changed
>the electric motor on my attic fan - I looked at the old one and I've seen
>more sophisticated bearings on the axle of Consetoga wagons. Then the
>plastic cover dome rotted away in the sun and let the rain into my attic.
>This BTW was a "Made in USA" product, albeit one made to sell at home
>centers for the lowest possible price point. Einstein once said that every
>problem should be simplified as much as possible, but not more. Likewise,
>every product should be made as cheaply as possible, but not more. I'm
>afraid we've gone into the realm of "more" with a lot of the stuff that is
>sold nowadays.
>
>At least you can throw out a $10 Windmere fan or $20 coffee maker when it
>breaks. Stuff has been breaking/leaking on my Audi lately which makes me
>suspect that they get their parts the same place that Windmere does. The
>last thing to go was my heater core. The core was cheap enough but it was
>something like 8 hrs. labor to dig it out of my dash.

What is it - an old 5000 that you "just can't part with"? ;-)

Brad


    
Date: 01 Apr 2007 19:24:57
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
No, this is an A6. It's 8 yrs old but that's way too soon to eat thru the
heater core IMHO. Or , if they were going to give the heater core contract
to the low bidder, they could have designed the thing in such a way that you
didn't have to take the whole car apart to get to it. And this isn't the
first thing that has gone in this fashion and every single thing is
incredibly labor intensive. The cam tensioner seal goes (a $10 part even at
dealer prices - it must be a $2 part at the factory or even less) and it's
five hours to dig it out and this is with a "shortcut" method - the "book"
says to remove both cams. So it's $400 to replace a $2 part that shouldn't
have failed in the 1st place. The water pump is driven off the cam belt and
to get to it you have to literally remove the whole front of the car -
bumper, grill, radiator. So changing the water pump is a $1000 job. Etc.
The car handles like a dream in bad weather but next time I'm getting
something Japanese where this kind of stuff happens less often. If any one
of these things (or another 1/2 dozen I haven't described here) had gone
wrong, I'd chalk it up to the odds, but when there are this many failures
(car has fewer than 50k miles) then there's some systematic problem with
reliability and that's what all the surveys say also. And clearly zero
consideration was given to serviceability, especially not by the home
mechanic. There's not even a dipstick for the automatic transmission (and
no way for the owner to fill it either).


"seastl >" <<reserved@later.date.com> wrote in message
news:13101opkd1qntb4@news.supernews.com...
>
> What is it - an old 5000 that you "just can't part with"? ;-)
>
> Brad




     
Date: 01 Apr 2007 21:53:21
From: seastl
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 19:24:57 -0400, "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net >
wrote:

>No, this is an A6. It's 8 yrs old but that's way too soon to eat thru the
>heater core IMHO. Or , if they were going to give the heater core contract
>to the low bidder, they could have designed the thing in such a way that you
>didn't have to take the whole car apart to get to it. And this isn't the
>first thing that has gone in this fashion and every single thing is
>incredibly labor intensive. The cam tensioner seal goes (a $10 part even at
>dealer prices - it must be a $2 part at the factory or even less) and it's
>five hours to dig it out and this is with a "shortcut" method - the "book"
>says to remove both cams. So it's $400 to replace a $2 part that shouldn't
>have failed in the 1st place. The water pump is driven off the cam belt and
>to get to it you have to literally remove the whole front of the car -
>bumper, grill, radiator. So changing the water pump is a $1000 job. Etc.
>The car handles like a dream in bad weather but next time I'm getting
>something Japanese where this kind of stuff happens less often. If any one
>of these things (or another 1/2 dozen I haven't described here) had gone
>wrong, I'd chalk it up to the odds, but when there are this many failures
>(car has fewer than 50k miles) then there's some systematic problem with
>reliability and that's what all the surveys say also. And clearly zero
>consideration was given to serviceability, especially not by the home
>mechanic. There's not even a dipstick for the automatic transmission (and
>no way for the owner to fill it either).

I had a 2000 A6 2.7T for about 4 years and loved it (for the most part)
until I drove a TT and decided the A6 really *was* a sedan! I need 4 doors
for my "entourage" right now though... It does sound like the Audi
satisfaction is getting somewhat worse lately. I have to admit, you'd
rarely see those complaints with a G35 or other, but they don't sit as
well as an Audi IMHO.

Brad



      
Date: 01 Apr 2007 23:26:54
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
The 1st 4 years were relatively problem free. The problems only started
after the warranty ran out - why you'd think that they had built these
things to last just long enough to make it past the warranty. But aside
from the reliability problems, it's been great. It isn't super fast but it
tends to go exactly where you point it, even in bad weather, thanks to
Quattro. In the years since, I take it it's only gotten worse in that the
new ones are even more complex with Audi's version of the BMW i-drive where
one joystick controls everything - radio, heater, etc. and you have to
scroll thru 47 menus to turn the defroster on and then 47 more to change
the time on the clock. I can only imagine how many things you can't use when
that joystick or the computer behind it breaks or what they charge to
replace that computer when a surge takes it out.

But in what way doesn't a G35 "sit as well"? This is the very car I'm
thinking of buying next 'cause it's available in AWD.


"seastl >" <<reserved@later.date.com> wrote in message
news:1310rvdm6k8nbd@news.supernews.com...
>
> I had a 2000 A6 2.7T for about 4 years and loved it (for the most part)
> until I drove a TT and decided the A6 really *was* a sedan! I need 4 doors
> for my "entourage" right now though... It does sound like the Audi
> satisfaction is getting somewhat worse lately. I have to admit, you'd
> rarely see those complaints with a G35 or other, but they don't sit as
> well as an Audi IMHO.
>
> Brad
>




       
Date: 02 Apr 2007 00:35:17
From: seastl
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 23:26:54 -0400, "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net >
wrote:

>The 1st 4 years were relatively problem free. The problems only started
>after the warranty ran out - why you'd think that they had built these
>things to last just long enough to make it past the warranty. But aside
>from the reliability problems, it's been great. It isn't super fast but it
>tends to go exactly where you point it, even in bad weather, thanks to
>Quattro. In the years since, I take it it's only gotten worse in that the
>new ones are even more complex with Audi's version of the BMW i-drive where
>one joystick controls everything - radio, heater, etc. and you have to
>scroll thru 47 menus to turn the defroster on and then 47 more to change
>the time on the clock. I can only imagine how many things you can't use when
>that joystick or the computer behind it breaks or what they charge to
>replace that computer when a surge takes it out.
>
> But in what way doesn't a G35 "sit as well"? This is the very car I'm
>thinking of buying next 'cause it's available in AWD.

I just simply don't feel as comfortable in the G35 as I did in the A6.
Could be strictly personal preference, could be recalling the A6 unfairly
(I love A6s, and would kill for an RS6), could be valid. In any case, I
decided that I probably wouldn't buy one that go 'round. It is hard to
beat their price for a solid AWD car, however. If only you could get a
manual AWD...! But if my choices were say, an S80 AWD vs G35 AWD - I'd buy
the G35 if money were any consideration at all ;-)

Brad



>"seastl >" <<reserved@later.date.com> wrote in message
>news:1310rvdm6k8nbd@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> I had a 2000 A6 2.7T for about 4 years and loved it (for the most part)
>> until I drove a TT and decided the A6 really *was* a sedan! I need 4 doors
>> for my "entourage" right now though... It does sound like the Audi
>> satisfaction is getting somewhat worse lately. I have to admit, you'd
>> rarely see those complaints with a G35 or other, but they don't sit as
>> well as an Audi IMHO.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>


 
Date: 01 Apr 2007 09:09:34
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.


 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 21:33:25
From: George Max
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On 31 2007 08:04:07 -0700, WJShaheen@aol.com wrote:

>Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
>bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>
>2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
>element won't heat at all.
>
>Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
>you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
>looking out for our well-being.
>
>This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
>drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either. Never
>again, B&D.
>
>DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>
>Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ


Tamperproof screws are sometimes mandated by approval agencies like
UL/DEMKO/SAA and the like. Even if only one of them requires it, it's
easier to simply use them for all models.

To your point, why not buy a decent coffemaker. Another poster says
to buy a Bunn, I've had great experience with Krups. My current Krups
is around 5 years old. It replaced an identical unit that failed
because of my own fault. I put that one on the stove for some reason,
and wifey used the oven to make something. The heat from oven vents
on top melted it. Oops. My bad. At least I then had an extra
carafe.


 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 17:39:19
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On 31, 12:26 pm, WJShah...@aol.com wrote:
>
> When is putting your name on your product going to mean something
> again?
>
> But, thanks for the observation anyway.
>
> Bill

When, after having researched the product sufficiently, your purchase
follows to resemble contemporary quality attributed to a substance. I
also may have misadvised someone on a B&D drip brewer, purchased from
Walt, offhand in mentioning to him B&D's comeback based on R&D in
space industry contracts, when B&D tools took a turn for the better.
As another notes, Braun is perhaps better suited for an integral given
advantage over coffee processing, apart from B&D's lack of oversight
to follow through outsourced product design implementation and QC,
labor savings devices increasingly face as a measure of competitive
pricing. In the fund industry, where greater support for venture
monies occur in world business affairs, it's known as survivor bias.
The industry also focuses on its presence, in so many names
instruments stand behind, better to purport to convey their integrity.
Nevertheless, an anomaly remains, ostensibly, and not all funds
survive to profit. By far, rest assured. The switch occurs when
prospectus highlights are forthcoming, merging and absorbing into
newly named or designed instruments, breaking new ground and
attractively packaged for consumption. Like merger acquisitions,
there can be fundamental flaws diametrically drawn across a reasoning
presented, and like an obseqiousness patterned in much presented today
for new and improved, there may, or not, be inherent advantage.
Caveat emptor is, as it's stated on the dollar bill, so it's to follow
for a venture across a well-known piece of investment advise, that
past performance needn't warant future returns.



 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 23:46:34
From: Rob Yokom
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.

<WJShaheen@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1175353447.400676.264380@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
> bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>
> 2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
> element won't heat at all.
>
> Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
> you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
> looking out for our well-being.
>
> This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
> drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either. Never
> again, B&D.
>
> DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>
> Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
>

There's no such thing as a "special screw." You can get bits for anything.
Just look around on the internet. But I agree with the others' advice. Get
the thing replaced by B&D, sell it, then get something reliable like a Bunn
or a Technivorm.




  
Date: 31 Mar 2007 21:17:55
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Rob Yokom wrote:
> <WJShaheen@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1175353447.400676.264380@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
>> bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>>
>> 2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
>> element won't heat at all.
>>
>> Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
>> you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
>> looking out for our well-being.
>>
>> This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
>> drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either.
>> Never again, B&D.
>>
>> DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>>
>> Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
>>
>
> There's no such thing as a "special screw." You can get bits for
> anything. Just look around on the internet.

So where does someone without authorization from Textron purchase a
Security Torx Plus bit?

Before you post a link to some lame set of Torx, be aware that Torx
_Plus_ is different from Torx and the security variant is different from
regular Torx Plus.

Even if you have the authorization most outfits that sell the things
want more than you'd pay for a replacement appliance.

> But I agree with the
> others' advice. Get the thing replaced by B&D, sell it, then get
> something reliable like a Bunn or a Technivorm.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)




   
Date: 01 Apr 2007 10:32:09
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On ebay, naturally.

Seriously, security bits are just to keep out casual screwdriver users -
they really can't keep anyone determined out. I have a printer that uses
toner cartridges where the toner reservoir is "sealed" with a special
security screw that you could never ever buy. The instructions for
refilling instruct you to cut away the plastic shield that they have put
around the head of the screw and then grab the screw head with vise grips
and turn it out. This works, or you could go after the screw with a screw
extractor (a sort of left handed drill bit). Inside the toner cart. is a
special chip they have installed so that when the cartridge reaches a
certain page count it no longer works (even if it still has toner left). The
printer manuf. would never in a million years sell you this chip. The
refillers have reverse engineered that too so that when you buy a toner
refill they also sell you a replacement chip. Wherever there is money to
be made, people will find a way and in the case of toner there is lots to be
made because the manufacturers have adopted a "give away the razor handle,
sell the razor blades dear" business model. They keep erecting higher
fences to keep people from cutting in on their ink/toner profits but they
get beaten every time.


My father used to say " locks are for an honest man".




"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@cox.net > wrote in message
news:eun1ve0ab5@news3.newsguy.com...
the internet.
>
> So where does someone without authorization from Textron purchase a
> Security Torx Plus bit?
>
>




    
Date: 01 Apr 2007 11:25:09
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Jack Denver wrote:
> On ebay, naturally.

Been looking for a set for years. Now that I don't need 'em anymore
somebody manages to get hold of a few extras that he's putting up on
ebay.

I suspect that once those are gone it will be a long time before you see
another set.

The point is that while you can find bits for many security fasteners,
new ones are being developed all the time and for the newest ones you
don't just go out and buy the bits without jumping through hoops.

> Seriously, security bits are just to keep out casual screwdriver
> users - they really can't keep anyone determined out. I have a
> printer that uses toner cartridges where the toner reservoir is
> "sealed" with a special security screw that you could never ever buy.
> The instructions for refilling instruct you to cut away the plastic
> shield that they have put around the head of the screw and then grab
> the screw head with vise grips and turn it out. This works, or you
> could go after the screw with a screw extractor (a sort of left
> handed drill bit). Inside the toner cart. is a special chip they
> have installed so that when the cartridge reaches a certain page
> count it no longer works (even if it still has toner left). The
> printer manuf. would never in a million years sell you this chip.
> The refillers have reverse engineered that too so that when you buy a
> toner refill they also sell you a replacement chip. Wherever there
> is money to be made, people will find a way and in the case of toner
> there is lots to be made because the manufacturers have adopted a
> "give away the razor handle, sell the razor blades dear" business
> model. They keep erecting higher fences to keep people from cutting
> in on their ink/toner profits but they get beaten every time.

Personally I have no use for third party ink--don't get me started on
that.

> My father used to say " locks are for an honest man".

And it's all a lot of work to fix a 20 dollar coffee machine that wasn't
a bargain if they paid you 20 to take it to begin with.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)




     
Date: 01 Apr 2007 12:42:12
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Try here. This what your looking for?
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200319665_200319665


On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 11:25:09 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@cox.net > wrote:

>Jack Denver wrote:
>> On ebay, naturally.
>
>Been looking for a set for years. Now that I don't need 'em anymore
>somebody manages to get hold of a few extras that he's putting up on
>ebay.
>
>I suspect that once those are gone it will be a long time before you see
>another set.
>
>The point is that while you can find bits for many security fasteners,
>new ones are being developed all the time and for the newest ones you
>don't just go out and buy the bits without jumping through hoops.
>
>> Seriously, security bits are just to keep out casual screwdriver
>> users - they really can't keep anyone determined out. I have a
>> printer that uses toner cartridges where the toner reservoir is
>> "sealed" with a special security screw that you could never ever buy.
>> The instructions for refilling instruct you to cut away the plastic
>> shield that they have put around the head of the screw and then grab
>> the screw head with vise grips and turn it out. This works, or you
>> could go after the screw with a screw extractor (a sort of left
>> handed drill bit). Inside the toner cart. is a special chip they
>> have installed so that when the cartridge reaches a certain page
>> count it no longer works (even if it still has toner left). The
>> printer manuf. would never in a million years sell you this chip.
>> The refillers have reverse engineered that too so that when you buy a
>> toner refill they also sell you a replacement chip. Wherever there
>> is money to be made, people will find a way and in the case of toner
>> there is lots to be made because the manufacturers have adopted a
>> "give away the razor handle, sell the razor blades dear" business
>> model. They keep erecting higher fences to keep people from cutting
>> in on their ink/toner profits but they get beaten every time.
>
>Personally I have no use for third party ink--don't get me started on
>that.
>
>> My father used to say " locks are for an honest man".
>
>And it's all a lot of work to fix a 20 dollar coffee machine that wasn't
>a bargain if they paid you 20 to take it to begin with.
>
>--



      
Date: 01 Apr 2007 15:54:16
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
sprsso wrote:
> Try here. This what your looking for?
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200319665_200319665

No Security Torx Plus in that one. Or were you addressing the OP's
need?

> On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 11:25:09 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <jclarke.usenet@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Jack Denver wrote:
>>> On ebay, naturally.
>>
>> Been looking for a set for years. Now that I don't need 'em anymore
>> somebody manages to get hold of a few extras that he's putting up on
>> ebay.
>>
>> I suspect that once those are gone it will be a long time before you
>> see another set.
>>
>> The point is that while you can find bits for many security
>> fasteners, new ones are being developed all the time and for the
>> newest ones you don't just go out and buy the bits without jumping
>> through hoops.
>>
>>> Seriously, security bits are just to keep out casual screwdriver
>>> users - they really can't keep anyone determined out. I have a
>>> printer that uses toner cartridges where the toner reservoir is
>>> "sealed" with a special security screw that you could never ever
>>> buy. The instructions for refilling instruct you to cut away the
>>> plastic shield that they have put around the head of the screw and
>>> then grab the screw head with vise grips and turn it out. This
>>> works, or you could go after the screw with a screw extractor (a
>>> sort of left handed drill bit). Inside the toner cart. is a
>>> special chip they have installed so that when the cartridge reaches
>>> a certain page count it no longer works (even if it still has toner
>>> left). The printer manuf. would never in a million years sell you
>>> this chip. The refillers have reverse engineered that too so that
>>> when you buy a toner refill they also sell you a replacement chip.
>>> Wherever there is money to be made, people will find a way and in
>>> the case of toner there is lots to be made because the
>>> manufacturers have adopted a "give away the razor handle, sell the
>>> razor blades dear" business model. They keep erecting higher
>>> fences to keep people from cutting in on their ink/toner profits
>>> but they get beaten every time.
>>
>> Personally I have no use for third party ink--don't get me started on
>> that.
>>
>>> My father used to say " locks are for an honest man".
>>
>> And it's all a lot of work to fix a 20 dollar coffee machine that
>> wasn't a bargain if they paid you 20 to take it to begin with.
>>
>> --

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)




   
Date: 01 Apr 2007 12:52:42
From: Rob Yokom
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.

"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@cox.net > wrote in message
news:eun1ve0ab5@news3.newsguy.com...
> Rob Yokom wrote:
>> <WJShaheen@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1175353447.400676.264380@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
>>> bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>>>
>>> 2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
>>> element won't heat at all.
>>>
>>> Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
>>> you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
>>> looking out for our well-being.
>>>
>>> This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
>>> drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either.
>>> Never again, B&D.
>>>
>>> DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>>>
>>> Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
>>>
>>
>> There's no such thing as a "special screw." You can get bits for
>> anything. Just look around on the internet.
>
> So where does someone without authorization from Textron purchase a
> Security Torx Plus bit?
>
> Before you post a link to some lame set of Torx, be aware that Torx
> _Plus_ is different from Torx and the security variant is different from
> regular Torx Plus.
>
> Even if you have the authorization most outfits that sell the things
> want more than you'd pay for a replacement appliance.
>
>> But I agree with the
>> others' advice. Get the thing replaced by B&D, sell it, then get
>> something reliable like a Bunn or a Technivorm.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
>
Here's one on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-Point-Star-Torx-Tools-for-Mercedes-BMW-VW-Audi_W0QQitemZ180099073044QQcmdZViewItem

There's always someplace willing to sell it.




 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 23:07:29
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Finding the keyboard operational
WJShaheen@aol.com entered:

> Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
> bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>
> 2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
> element won't heat at all.
>
> Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
> you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
> looking out for our well-being.
>
> This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
> drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either. Never
> again, B&D.
>
> DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>
> Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ

Bill, I understand your frustration but I think you are over reacting. All
consumer grade appliances and even some commercial ones have an infantile
failure rate. If that rate was reduced to zero, the prices would have to be
increased.
I don't know what B&Ds warrantey period is but that might have been a
solution. Then again, boxing the thing up and sending it to a "repair"
center probably would use up more of your time then the thing is worth.
The specially screws also reduce the cost of the item by preventing lawsuits
when someone gets themselves hurt poking around in there.
I don't work for B&D or any of their related companies. I don't even have
any brand loyalty for them. I just wanted to state that stuff happens and
sometimes it's bad/
Bob

--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com



 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 14:48:52
From:
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On 31, 8:47 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:

> in fact I suspect that these things all come from the same factory in China
> and get different names slapped on them.
>
You're such a cynic, Jack. # :o)

I've had some good experiences with Porter Cable power tools, so when
it came time to buy a pressure washer I figured the brand was as good
as any--better than a lot. From my calls for more specs and
accessories, I found out that the factory (?) that makes (assembles ?)
them also makes another major brand (Karcher? I don't recall); of
course, they are all using Honda (or Briggs & S. or another of the big
3 or 4 engine makers). And when it shipped, it came form the Black
and Decker distribution center (or factory, or rented U-Store It
garage, or . . .)

tin (2300 psi ---- great for cleaning up the cat)




  
Date: 31 Mar 2007 19:28:18
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On 31 2007 14:48:52 -0700, coffeeemail@gmail.com wrote:

>(2300 psi ---- great for cleaning up the cat)

Permanently? There's a major unidentified ket there...

-- Larry



 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 10:45:32
From:
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On 31, 10:05 am, "Roger Shoaf" <s...@nospamsyix.com > wrote:
> If you like drip coffee why hassle with cheap junk? Buy a Bunn and be done
> with it.
>
> I own 3 of these. The first one was a commercial model I purchased used. I
> took it all apart cleaned out a 3/8 layer of lime from the inside of the
> tank until the stainless gleamed.
>
> The second one I got for home as the commercial one was at work.
>
> The third one I got was the thermal carafe model. All three still work.
> All three still have parts available through Bunn.
>
> --
>
> Roger Shoaf
>
> About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
> they come up with this striped stuff.<WJShah...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1175358364.052117.236500@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In my opinion, having a warranty is no excuse for poor product
> > quality. Tired of those hassles. Also, I did flip the unit over and
> > saw where it was made. I have a number of products made in China and
> > am pleased with them, for the most part. The fact that B&D outsourced
> > their production is also not a viable explanation - the name on the
> > front still says Black & Decker. Am I to say, "Oh, I see - it was made
> > in another country so I can't fault B&D"?
>
> > When is putting your name on your product going to mean something
> > again?
>
> > But, thanks for the observation anyway.
>
> > Bill- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You hit the nail on the head, Roger. The only reason I picked up the
B&D was we needed one in a pinch and couldn't find a better model that
had the features we wanted, at the time. Wife said, ahh, let's just
get this for now. Had a Bunn and agree. Going shopping this PM.
Thanks.






  
Date: 31 Mar 2007 14:38:31
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
WJShaheen@aol.com wrote:

>
>You hit the nail on the head, Roger. The only reason I picked up the
>B&D was we needed one in a pinch and couldn't find a better model that
>had the features we wanted, at the time. Wife said, ahh, let's just
>get this for now. Had a Bunn and agree. Going shopping this PM.
>Thanks.
>
I did throw away an older "B" Bunn, but have a commercial model that
will outlive me. The older model A's are amazing- the tank is built
like a tank! ;-) They do have their drawbacks- they do tend to brew
very fast and they don't like brewing partial pots as well as a full
pot at a time.

In regards to the B+D, you really should get it replaced, even if to
just sell the replacement on eBay. They should be made to be
responsible for their failures, not to just empty our pockets and
re-supply our landfills.

If you want something that is simple to use, has a failure rate of
about zero, and is affordable, try the Aeropress. Great coffee every
time, and fast....




Randy "" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 09:26:04
From:
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
On 31, 8:47 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Didn't it have a warranty?
>
> B&D kitchen appliances nowadays are made in China by Windmere, maker of $10
> hairdryers. They are no longer connected with B&D the tool makers (nor with
> their former owner GE). They are cheap and essentially disposable but if
> you are in the warranty period they'll send you a new one. I don't think
> they are any worse than any of the other cheap coffee makers on the ket -
> in fact I suspect that these things all come from the same factory in China
> and get different names slapped on them.
>
> <WJShah...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1175353447.400676.264380@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
> > bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>
> > 2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
> > element won't heat at all.
>
> > Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
> > you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
> > looking out for our well-being.
>
> > This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
> > drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either. Never
> > again, B&D.
>
> > DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>
> > Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

In my opinion, having a warranty is no excuse for poor product
quality. Tired of those hassles. Also, I did flip the unit over and
saw where it was made. I have a number of products made in China and
am pleased with them, for the most part. The fact that B&D outsourced
their production is also not a viable explanation - the name on the
front still says Black & Decker. Am I to say, "Oh, I see - it was made
in another country so I can't fault B&D"?

When is putting your name on your product going to mean something
again?

But, thanks for the observation anyway.

Bill








  
Date: 31 Mar 2007 10:05:43
From: Roger Shoaf
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
If you like drip coffee why hassle with cheap junk? Buy a Bunn and be done
with it.

I own 3 of these. The first one was a commercial model I purchased used. I
took it all apart cleaned out a 3/8 layer of lime from the inside of the
tank until the stainless gleamed.

The second one I got for home as the commercial one was at work.

The third one I got was the thermal carafe model. All three still work.
All three still have parts available through Bunn.


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
<WJShaheen@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1175358364.052117.236500@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> In my opinion, having a warranty is no excuse for poor product
> quality. Tired of those hassles. Also, I did flip the unit over and
> saw where it was made. I have a number of products made in China and
> am pleased with them, for the most part. The fact that B&D outsourced
> their production is also not a viable explanation - the name on the
> front still says Black & Decker. Am I to say, "Oh, I see - it was made
> in another country so I can't fault B&D"?
>
> When is putting your name on your product going to mean something
> again?
>
> But, thanks for the observation anyway.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>




 
Date: 31 Mar 2007 11:47:34
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Will never buy Black & Decker again.
Didn't it have a warranty?

B&D kitchen appliances nowadays are made in China by Windmere, maker of $10
hairdryers. They are no longer connected with B&D the tool makers (nor with
their former owner GE). They are cheap and essentially disposable but if
you are in the warranty period they'll send you a new one. I don't think
they are any worse than any of the other cheap coffee makers on the ket -
in fact I suspect that these things all come from the same factory in China
and get different names slapped on them.




<WJShaheen@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1175353447.400676.264380@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Just threw out a 3 month old Black Decker coffee maker. Had all the
> bells and whistles, programmable and all. Looked good in the store.
>
> 2 weeks ago, the the unit would go off and on at will. Now, the
> element won't heat at all.
>
> Tried to open the bottom hoping a simple repair would do it - oh, no
> you don't. Special screws to keep consumers out - sure glad their
> looking out for our well-being.
>
> This was my 3rd B&D coffee maker over the years. NOt to mention the
> drills and electric gardening tools that didn't hold up either. Never
> again, B&D.
>
> DO NOT BUY BLACK & DECKER!
>
> Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ
>