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Date: 09 Jul 2007 10:25:24
From: TSX
Subject: Zaffiro or Andreja
Hi everyone
Firstly I am a newbie 4 months in, I have a new Macap M4 grinder and
currently have a choice of 2 machines (yes I've got upgrade fever from
my Gaggia Classic) a second hand Andreja Premium (=A3640) or new Isomac
Zaffiro (=A3500).
I love espresso Americano and normally have about 8 cups a day, I
never take any form of milk in my coffee, my wife likes cappuccino
(you know what that is, some form of black stuff in the bottom of a
cup topped off with white frothy stuff and a pile of chocolate on top,
YUK) once or twice a week.
Has anyone first hand knowledge of these 2 machines and would I need
to upgrade my grinder? Also in similar circumstance what choice would
you make.

Terry





 
Date: 11 Jul 2007 13:46:05
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja
No, you have a fine grinder.

an upgrade won't get you better coffee.

dave


"TSX" <terysx2@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1184001924.837664.298120@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Hi everyone
Firstly I am a newbie 4 months in, I have a new Macap M4 grinder and
currently have a choice of 2 machines (yes I've got upgrade fever from
my Gaggia Classic) a second hand Andreja Premium (640) or new Isomac
Zaffiro (500).
I love espresso Americano and normally have about 8 cups a day, I
never take any form of milk in my coffee, my wife likes cappuccino
(you know what that is, some form of black stuff in the bottom of a
cup topped off with white frothy stuff and a pile of chocolate on top,
YUK) once or twice a week.
Has anyone first hand knowledge of these 2 machines and would I need
to upgrade my grinder? Also in similar circumstance what choice would
you make.

Terry




 
Date: 11 Jul 2007 13:44:36
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja
Andreja -- by far

worked on and fixed both.

IMHO, Isomac needs to be doing something -- anything ELSE, but NOT making
coffee machines.

period.

dave


"TSX" <terysx2@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1184001924.837664.298120@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Hi everyone
Firstly I am a newbie 4 months in, I have a new Macap M4 grinder and
currently have a choice of 2 machines (yes I've got upgrade fever from
my Gaggia Classic) a second hand Andreja Premium (640) or new Isomac
Zaffiro (500).
I love espresso Americano and normally have about 8 cups a day, I
never take any form of milk in my coffee, my wife likes cappuccino
(you know what that is, some form of black stuff in the bottom of a
cup topped off with white frothy stuff and a pile of chocolate on top,
YUK) once or twice a week.
Has anyone first hand knowledge of these 2 machines and would I need
to upgrade my grinder? Also in similar circumstance what choice would
you make.

Terry




 
Date: 10 Jul 2007 03:58:04
From: TSX
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja
On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Moka Java <rtwatc...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> TSX wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> > Firstly I am a newbie 4 months in, I have a new Macap M4 grinder and
> > currently have a choice of 2 machines (yes I've got upgrade fever from
> > my Gaggia Classic) a second hand Andreja Premium (=A3640) or new Isomac
> > Zaffiro (=A3500).
> > I love espresso Americano and normally have about 8 cups a day, I
> > never take any form of milk in my coffee, my wife likes cappuccino
> > (you know what that is, some form of black stuff in the bottom of a
> > cup topped off with white frothy stuff and a pile of chocolate on top,
> > YUK) once or twice a week.
> > Has anyone first hand knowledge of these 2 machines and would I need
> > to upgrade my grinder? Also in similar circumstance what choice would
> > you make.
>
> > Terry
>
> From all I've read, the Macap grinder is up there with the best. I
> have an Andreja Premium for almost 3 years now, one of the first sold in
> the US. I had a warranty issue early on and had to replace the vacuum
> breaker valve a few months ago -- $15 and about 1/2 hour. Isomac has a
> reputation for electrical problems caused by poor workmanship and
> inadequate components. I don't know if they have resolved those issues.
> If you will be making coffee for guests the continuous steam of an HX
> machine is a big plus. Yes, you can heat the Zaffirio up to steaming
> temperature but it will take more than just a few minutes to cool back
> down to a proper brewing temperature.
>
> Buying a used machine can be a problem. How old is the Andreja. Was it
> fed softened water? Is there scale or other issues? Your price for the
> used Andreja is about as much as the cost new here in the US so you
> might want to consider a new one.
>
> R "Upgrade! Upgrade!! Ra Ra RAAA!!!!" TF- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

A new Andreja.is about =A3950 in the UK, take your point about water
etc. I live in a good quality soft water area and tend to forget about
the large number of very hard water areas in the UK and the problems
it could have already caused on the Andreja. After saying all that the
Andreja.does look amazing.

Terry



 
Date: 10 Jul 2007 03:42:02
From: TSX
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja
On Jul 9, 7:53 pm, billm3 <bmia...@gmail.com > wrote:
> You have a great grinder from what I have read in many different
> posts, but I have no personal experience.
>
> As for the choice between the Andreja and Zaffirio, I have a Quickmill
> Alexia, which by everything I can find is the same as the Zaffirio.
>
> If you have some way to steam milk on a stovetop steamer or if your
> wife is not picky about having her espresso sit for a minute or two
> while the single boiler heats up in the Zaffirio, then I would go with
> the Zaffirio. The Zaf is less complicated than the Andreja and easy to
> tinker with, like adding a PID. The Alexia (Zaffirio) makes awesome
> shots of espresso, but steaming is not its strong point.
>
> If you want instant steam with your espresso shot, then the Andreja is
> the way to go. The heat exchanger needs a little more maintenance
> (descaling seems like it would be a pain) but allows you to pull great
> shots after a little temperature surfing to get the super-heated water
> out of the exchanger before you brew. But then you have instant steam
> to make your capp.
>
> Your choice, depending on what you need. If it was me, I'd go with the
> Zaffirio (or Quickmill Alexia) because I drink shots only, and I have
> an old stovetop steamer that I use to make my wife's drink.
>
> Bill

Thanks for you observations, I think the addition of a stove top
steamer and a new Zaffirio would be a good combination, hadn't thought
of doing that.
I do need to produce good cappuccino, if I don.t my wife may withdraw
some privalages.

Terry



 
Date: 10 Jul 2007 00:36:17
From: *alan*
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja

"TSX" wrote
> [...]
> ...my wife likes cappuccino
>(you know what that is, some form of black stuff in the bottom of a
>cup topped off with white frothy stuff and a pile of chocolate on top,
>YUK) ...
>Terry

If that's the way you make cappuccino, no wonder it tastes like crap

--
Alan



 
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:37:32
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja
TSX wrote:
> Hi everyone
> Firstly I am a newbie 4 months in, I have a new Macap M4 grinder and
> currently have a choice of 2 machines (yes I've got upgrade fever from
> my Gaggia Classic) a second hand Andreja Premium (640) or new Isomac
> Zaffiro (500).
> I love espresso Americano and normally have about 8 cups a day, I
> never take any form of milk in my coffee, my wife likes cappuccino
> (you know what that is, some form of black stuff in the bottom of a
> cup topped off with white frothy stuff and a pile of chocolate on top,
> YUK) once or twice a week.
> Has anyone first hand knowledge of these 2 machines and would I need
> to upgrade my grinder? Also in similar circumstance what choice would
> you make.
>
> Terry
>
From all I've read, the Macap grinder is up there with the best. I
have an Andreja Premium for almost 3 years now, one of the first sold in
the US. I had a warranty issue early on and had to replace the vacuum
breaker valve a few months ago -- $15 and about 1/2 hour. Isomac has a
reputation for electrical problems caused by poor workmanship and
inadequate components. I don't know if they have resolved those issues.
If you will be making coffee for guests the continuous steam of an HX
machine is a big plus. Yes, you can heat the Zaffirio up to steaming
temperature but it will take more than just a few minutes to cool back
down to a proper brewing temperature.

Buying a used machine can be a problem. How old is the Andreja. Was it
fed softened water? Is there scale or other issues? Your price for the
used Andreja is about as much as the cost new here in the US so you
might want to consider a new one.

R "Upgrade! Upgrade!! Ra Ra RAAA!!!!" TF


 
Date: 09 Jul 2007 11:53:59
From: billm3
Subject: Re: Zaffiro or Andreja
You have a great grinder from what I have read in many different
posts, but I have no personal experience.

As for the choice between the Andreja and Zaffirio, I have a Quickmill
Alexia, which by everything I can find is the same as the Zaffirio.

If you have some way to steam milk on a stovetop steamer or if your
wife is not picky about having her espresso sit for a minute or two
while the single boiler heats up in the Zaffirio, then I would go with
the Zaffirio. The Zaf is less complicated than the Andreja and easy to
tinker with, like adding a PID. The Alexia (Zaffirio) makes awesome
shots of espresso, but steaming is not its strong point.

If you want instant steam with your espresso shot, then the Andreja is
the way to go. The heat exchanger needs a little more maintenance
(descaling seems like it would be a pain) but allows you to pull great
shots after a little temperature surfing to get the super-heated water
out of the exchanger before you brew. But then you have instant steam
to make your capp.

Your choice, depending on what you need. If it was me, I'd go with the
Zaffirio (or Quickmill Alexia) because I drink shots only, and I have
an old stovetop steamer that I use to make my wife's drink.

Bill