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Date: 12 May 2007 15:16:40
From: daveb
Subject: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC


Suggestion: to the old guard who seem so committed to this group, and
policing of same:

Why not try to avoid flaming -- a newbie with an actual valid question --
as a "troll" only to be found out later he/she was an actual new user with a
vailid question? look back in the archives and see. newbies find that very
alarming and distasteful.

I have never taken credit for the application of 'pid' controllers --
credit fully belongs to mssrs. scace, schulman, schecter and many others.
and I have never written on ebay forums.

I DO take credit (or blame) for posting my offerings here on this group.
Offerings that BTW, are of very high interest to the readers of this ng.

When persons like fox, rg, "steve", bernie and others call me names, revile
me, assault my business practices, and indulge in ineffective attempts at
character assassination here in this forum -- THEY are the ones who lower
the quality of the content of AC.

These accusations are baseless, obsessive and extremely boring.

Then there are the cowards such as "steve" (Lars) who hide behind fake names
and made up addresses. they do not deserve to be dignified with a response.

Yet in spite of the use of 'killfiles' and other absurdities, AND their
inability to not read what is written, they continue. And Randy G is now
actually entertaining the thought (and writing about) that I flew from the
East coast to "stalk" him at the SCAA show. wow.

recognizing the futility of responding to most in this thread and others,


Dave
910 616 0980
always available by phone or email



--
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
877 286 2833






 
Date: 16 May 2007 05:28:25
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
- everyone else can't all be wrong.
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>

Yup. everyone else.

d



 
Date: 13 May 2007 17:19:25
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
On May 13, 6:26 pm, r...@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
> Dave b <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>


  
Date: 14 May 2007 19:40:58
From: Ken Wilson
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
"Dave b"
> I have explained elsewhere in recent threads.

I read a brilliant article in, probably The Times, a few years back which
explained Maggie Thatcher's (she was, unarguably, our most successful prime
minister since Churchill :-) ) 10 methods that she used to prevaricate
and generally avoid answering the question - whether posed by one of our
more skilled journalists or one of the more lucid leaders of the Opposition
(actually - were there any? :-)^2 ).

The 10th was too obscure for me (and, i suspect, the commentator) and I have
forgotten the 9th: our current (soon to be ex) prevaricator has only scored
6 or thereabouts on that scale; Dave b has scored 2.

The journalist didn't count hitting people with one's handbag.

and she had the sense the resign only a little past her sell by date.

ken "I is allowed to take the piss out of OUR government - 95% of the
posters on this website aren't" W




 
Date: 13 May 2007 14:08:58
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
On May 13, 3:56 pm, bernie <bdig...@zianet.com > wrote:
> ear...@comcast.net wrote:
> > Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
> > boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
> > a product to sell.
> > And being in business with chriscoffee.com makes me figure that Dave
> > must be a skilled and honest technician .
> > Roll Tide
> > Don........
>
> That is the point, Don. I've been on this group over ten years and it
> has always been the norm that promoting one's business was not done. It
> has always been a bone of contention and the person in question has not
> only ignored the many, many requests of regular posters to refrain from
> making commercial posts, but he has taken it a step further in using the
> dialogue regarding our objections to escalate his misuse and then to
> blatantly springboard into attempts to dominate the tone of this group
> with acrimony and recrimmination. If you look at a sampling of the
> threads he has been involved in over the period of his involvement here
> you will get a sense of what I'm speaking about. It isn't the
> occassional dustup or heated argument between posters of differing
> opinion that every group experiences. It is constant, repetative,
> grinding, relentless posting in a manner intended to be malicious and
> uncomfortable. It is not an accident or occasional imprudence. It is
> intentional, hateful, malicious and with design. The result is that the
> poster has a constant three-ring circus going wherein he attempts to
> inject his vitriol to either drive away those who disagree or object.
> Those of us who have watched this devolve over the time he has made is
> presence so obvious are quite tired of it and resent what he has done to
> the group. If you have the time, Don, go back and google his posts and
> the threads he has been involved in and you can't help but see the vast
> majority are acrimonious, negative and ultimatley damaging to this group.
> Bernie

nonsense.



  
Date: 16 May 2007 09:53:05
From: Danny
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Dave b wrote:

> nonsense.
>

Bernie has it right. It really is about time you took a long look at
your behaviour - everyone else can't all be wrong.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



  
Date: 14 May 2007 11:19:50
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Nope. Bernie's pretty much on the mark.

"Dave b" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179090538.002404.159450@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

> On May 13, 3:56 pm, bernie <bdig...@zianet.com> wrote:
>> That is the point, Don. I've been on this group over ten years and it
>> has always been the norm that promoting one's business was not done. It
>> has always been a bone of contention and the person in question has not
>> only ignored the many, many requests of regular posters to refrain from
>> making commercial posts, but he has taken it a step further in using the
>> dialogue regarding our objections to escalate his misuse and then to
>> blatantly springboard into attempts to dominate the tone of this group
>> with acrimony and recrimmination. If you look at a sampling of the
>> threads he has been involved in over the period of his involvement here
>> you will get a sense of what I'm speaking about. It isn't the
>> occassional dustup or heated argument between posters of differing
>> opinion that every group experiences. It is constant, repetative,
>> grinding, relentless posting in a manner intended to be malicious and
>> uncomfortable. It is not an accident or occasional imprudence. It is
>> intentional, hateful, malicious and with design. The result is that the
>> poster has a constant three-ring circus going wherein he attempts to
>> inject his vitriol to either drive away those who disagree or object.
>> Those of us who have watched this devolve over the time he has made is
>> presence so obvious are quite tired of it and resent what he has done to
>> the group. If you have the time, Don, go back and google his posts and
>> the threads he has been involved in and you can't help but see the vast
>> majority are acrimonious, negative and ultimatley damaging to this group.
>> Bernie
>
> nonsense.
>




  
Date: 13 May 2007 22:26:01
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:



 
Date: 13 May 2007 12:48:39
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
How, & for what purpose, do you believe me to be promoting myself? I
try to ensure that every post, with the exception of those dedicated
to exposing Dave for what he is, is aimed at providing or soliciting
information about buying, repairing, or modding, espresso equipment.

I do not engage in argumentum ad hominem, rather I attempt to stay on
point within a thread. Dave, on the other hand, has engaged in attacks
on individuals with no provocation, often throwing an interesting
thread into absolute chaos. It's now to the point that whenever Dave
participates in or starts a thread, often using any one of his many
aliases, some folks feel it necessary to point out to the world his
lack of credibility.

And then, there are those apologists for Dave's boorish behavior;
people who may or not be another of Dave's many alter egos, who seem
to believe that anything is permissible in Usenet forums, and
obviously don't know the meaning of netiquette. If these folks don't
like seeing Dave put in his place they are always welcome to kill file
me. In fact it would be a service to me if they did so, since by their
support of Dave they are showing their own lack of knowledge about the
subject matter of this group, and have nothing to offer by replying to
any of my posts.

Robert Harmon

On May 12, 11:29 pm, ear...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
> boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
> a product to sell.
> Roll Tide
> Don........




 
Date: 13 May 2007 06:08:10
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
On May 13, 12:29 am, ear...@comcast.net wrote:
> On May 12, 4:55 pm, Robert Harmon <r_h_har...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hmmmm? Dave calling for restraint is like Al Gore calling for personal
> > energy conservation; there's gotta be a punchline to follow - right?.
> > Are you going to talk the talk or walk the walk?
>
> > It's Dave's insistence on ignoring what is considered proper
> > netiquette, not posting commercial messages in a public forum, that is
> > the root cause of the comments about his ethics, business practices,
> > and his genealogy in general. None of the folks he mentioned go out of
> > their way to find reasons to revile the man - he brings it on himself.
>
> > I'd thought that putting him in one's kill file would eliminate the
> > aggravation his posts cause. But, as Danny rightly pointed out, what
> > happens when some newbie searches the group archive & only sees Dave's
> > point of view? With no countering argument the newbie would think that
> > Dave's a genius & that everything he said is the way to do things.
>
> > So Dave & those he does business with, i.e., Chris Coffee, are help in
> > low opinion and everyone is asked to refrain from doing business with
> > them until his netiqueette improves.
>
> > Robert (On who thinks of Dave as beneath contempt) Harmon
> > --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj-My coffee pages.http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87-My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2-I have things for sale here.
>
> > On May 12, 2:16 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Suggestion: to the old guard who seem so committed to this group, and
> > > policing of same:
>
> > > Why not try to avoid flaming -- a newbie with an actual valid question --
> > > as a "troll" only to be found out later he/she was an actual new user with a
> > > vailid question? look back in the archives and see. newbies find that very
> > > alarming and distasteful.
>
> > > I have never taken credit for the application of 'pid' controllers --
> > > credit fully belongs to mssrs. scace, schulman, schecter and many others.
> > > and I have never written on ebay forums.
>
> > > I DO take credit (or blame) for posting my offerings here on this group.
> > > Offerings that BTW, are of very high interest to the readers of this ng.
>
> > > When persons like fox, rg, "steve", bernie and others call me names, revile
> > > me, assault my business practices, and indulge in ineffective attempts at
> > > character assassination here in this forum -- THEY are the ones who lower
> > > the quality of the content of AC.
>
> > > These accusations are baseless, obsessive and extremely boring.
>
> > > Then there are the cowards such as "steve" (Lars) who hide behind fake names
> > > and made up addresses. they do not deserve to be dignified with a response.
>
> > > Yet in spite of the use of 'killfiles' and other absurdities, AND their
> > > inability to not read what is written, they continue. And Randy G is now
> > > actually entertaining the thought (and writing about) that I flew from the
> > > East coast to "stalk" him at the SCAA show. wow.
>
> > > recognizing the futility of responding to most in this thread and others,
>
> > > Dave
> > > 910 616 0980
> > > always available by phone or email
>
> > > --
> > > Davewww.hitechespresso.com
> > > 877 286 2833- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted
>
> Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
> boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
> a product to sell.
> And being in business with chriscoffee.com makes me figure that Dave
> must be a skilled and honest technician .
> Roll Tide
> Don........

Well, thank you, Don. I apprecaite it. I could NEVER have gotten
this far had I been incompetent or unethical. but there will always be
persons who envy the success of others. and when I hype a product, I
make it very clear that I have a direct economic interest in doing
so. And I have repaired, for money, hundreds of machines from at
least a dozen different makers. I think that gives me some modest
knowledge.

In my many years in business, I have learned one thing:

<You will achieve what you want by helping customers achieve what THEY
want. >
Simple principles, thousands of years old.

But as 'Roque' said, has every usenet has a whipping boy. oh well.

Read and be disturbed by the vitriol and attacks pouring out from
others. What IS it that they hope to gain?

dave
877 286-2833




 
Date: 12 May 2007 21:29:30
From:
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
On May 12, 4:55 pm, Robert Harmon <r_h_har...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hmmmm? Dave calling for restraint is like Al Gore calling for personal
> energy conservation; there's gotta be a punchline to follow - right?.
> Are you going to talk the talk or walk the walk?
>
> It's Dave's insistence on ignoring what is considered proper
> netiquette, not posting commercial messages in a public forum, that is
> the root cause of the comments about his ethics, business practices,
> and his genealogy in general. None of the folks he mentioned go out of
> their way to find reasons to revile the man - he brings it on himself.
>
> I'd thought that putting him in one's kill file would eliminate the
> aggravation his posts cause. But, as Danny rightly pointed out, what
> happens when some newbie searches the group archive & only sees Dave's
> point of view? With no countering argument the newbie would think that
> Dave's a genius & that everything he said is the way to do things.
>
> So Dave & those he does business with, i.e., Chris Coffee, are help in
> low opinion and everyone is asked to refrain from doing business with
> them until his netiqueette improves.
>
> Robert (On who thinks of Dave as beneath contempt) Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here.
>
> On May 12, 2:16 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Suggestion: to the old guard who seem so committed to this group, and
> > policing of same:
>
> > Why not try to avoid flaming -- a newbie with an actual valid question --
> > as a "troll" only to be found out later he/she was an actual new user with a
> > vailid question? look back in the archives and see. newbies find that very
> > alarming and distasteful.
>
> > I have never taken credit for the application of 'pid' controllers --
> > credit fully belongs to mssrs. scace, schulman, schecter and many others.
> > and I have never written on ebay forums.
>
> > I DO take credit (or blame) for posting my offerings here on this group.
> > Offerings that BTW, are of very high interest to the readers of this ng.
>
> > When persons like fox, rg, "steve", bernie and others call me names, revile
> > me, assault my business practices, and indulge in ineffective attempts at
> > character assassination here in this forum -- THEY are the ones who lower
> > the quality of the content of AC.
>
> > These accusations are baseless, obsessive and extremely boring.
>
> > Then there are the cowards such as "steve" (Lars) who hide behind fake names
> > and made up addresses. they do not deserve to be dignified with a response.
>
> > Yet in spite of the use of 'killfiles' and other absurdities, AND their
> > inability to not read what is written, they continue. And Randy G is now
> > actually entertaining the thought (and writing about) that I flew from the
> > East coast to "stalk" him at the SCAA show. wow.
>
> > recognizing the futility of responding to most in this thread and others,
>
> > Dave
> > 910 616 0980
> > always available by phone or email
>
> > --
> > Davewww.hitechespresso.com
> > 877 286 2833- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted
Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
a product to sell.
And being in business with chriscoffee.com makes me figure that Dave
must be a skilled and honest technician .
Roll Tide
Don........



  
Date: 13 May 2007 14:26:59
From: bernie
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
earlds@comcast.net wrote:
Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
> boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
> a product to sell.
> And being in business with chriscoffee.com makes me figure that Dave
> must be a skilled and honest technician .
> Roll Tide
> Don......

Additionally, I'm uncertain as to whether or not chriscoffee.com is
still associated with this poster. But, I will send them a note and
inquire.
Bernie




  
Date: 13 May 2007 13:56:46
From: bernie
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
earlds@comcast.net wrote:

> Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
> boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
> a product to sell.
> And being in business with chriscoffee.com makes me figure that Dave
> must be a skilled and honest technician .
> Roll Tide
> Don........
>

That is the point, Don. I've been on this group over ten years and it
has always been the norm that promoting one's business was not done. It
has always been a bone of contention and the person in question has not
only ignored the many, many requests of regular posters to refrain from
making commercial posts, but he has taken it a step further in using the
dialogue regarding our objections to escalate his misuse and then to
blatantly springboard into attempts to dominate the tone of this group
with acrimony and recrimmination. If you look at a sampling of the
threads he has been involved in over the period of his involvement here
you will get a sense of what I'm speaking about. It isn't the
occassional dustup or heated argument between posters of differing
opinion that every group experiences. It is constant, repetative,
grinding, relentless posting in a manner intended to be malicious and
uncomfortable. It is not an accident or occasional imprudence. It is
intentional, hateful, malicious and with design. The result is that the
poster has a constant three-ring circus going wherein he attempts to
inject his vitriol to either drive away those who disagree or object.
Those of us who have watched this devolve over the time he has made is
presence so obvious are quite tired of it and resent what he has done to
the group. If you have the time, Don, go back and google his posts and
the threads he has been involved in and you can't help but see the vast
majority are acrimonious, negative and ultimatley damaging to this group.
Bernie


  
Date: 12 May 2007 23:05:05
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
earlds@comcast.net wrote:

>Nothing personal Tex,but you and Dave are both pretty much in the same
>boat.You both use the forums for self promotion,but Dave actually has
>a product to sell.
>And being in business with chriscoffee.com makes me figure that Dave
>must be a skilled and honest technician .

The original complaints came when he was using Chris' name in his spam
messages here. it was commented on and these references very quickly
disappeared- dropped so quickly that some of us assumed that Chris did
not appreciate his name being used that way. The spammer has given so
much inaccurate and bad advice in this group under the guise of being
a "professional" that it was the juxtaposition of the two names that
ran the name of Chris' Coffee down (in what other way could the scale
tip in this?)- a name that was held in very high regard before that
incident by (nearly?) all here, and afterwards made some folks wonder.

Randy "" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 12 May 2007 16:12:37
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
On May 12, 5:55 pm, Robert Harmon <r_h_har...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hmmmm? Dave calling for restraint is like Al Gore calling for personal
> energy conservation; there's gotta be a punchline to follow - right?.
> Are you going to talk the talk or walk the walk?
>
> It's Dave's insistence on ignoring what is considered proper
> netiquette, not posting commercial messages in a public forum, that is
> the root cause of the comments about his ethics, business practices,
> and his genealogy in general. None of the folks he mentioned go out of
> their way to find reasons to revile the man - he brings it on himself.
>
> I'd thought that putting him in one's kill file would eliminate the
> aggravation his posts cause. But, as Danny rightly pointed out, what
> happens when some newbie searches the group archive & only sees Dave's
> point of view? With no countering argument the newbie would think that
> Dave's a genius & that everything he said is the way to do things.
>
> So Dave & those he does business with, i.e., Chris Coffee, are help in
> low opinion and everyone is asked to refrain from doing business with
> them until his netiqueette improves.
>
> Robert

laughable.

-- from the good 'ol boy who was kicked off eBay, and paypal.




 
Date: 12 May 2007 14:55:42
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Hmmmm? Dave calling for restraint is like Al Gore calling for personal
energy conservation; there's gotta be a punchline to follow - right?.
Are you going to talk the talk or walk the walk?

It's Dave's insistence on ignoring what is considered proper
netiquette, not posting commercial messages in a public forum, that is
the root cause of the comments about his ethics, business practices,
and his genealogy in general. None of the folks he mentioned go out of
their way to find reasons to revile the man - he brings it on himself.

I'd thought that putting him in one's kill file would eliminate the
aggravation his posts cause. But, as Danny rightly pointed out, what
happens when some newbie searches the group archive & only sees Dave's
point of view? With no countering argument the newbie would think that
Dave's a genius & that everything he said is the way to do things.

So Dave & those he does business with, i.e., Chris Coffee, are help in
low opinion and everyone is asked to refrain from doing business with
them until his netiqueette improves.

Robert (On who thinks of Dave as beneath contempt) Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.


On May 12, 2:16 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Suggestion: to the old guard who seem so committed to this group, and
> policing of same:
>
> Why not try to avoid flaming -- a newbie with an actual valid question --
> as a "troll" only to be found out later he/she was an actual new user with a
> vailid question? look back in the archives and see. newbies find that very
> alarming and distasteful.
>
> I have never taken credit for the application of 'pid' controllers --
> credit fully belongs to mssrs. scace, schulman, schecter and many others.
> and I have never written on ebay forums.
>
> I DO take credit (or blame) for posting my offerings here on this group.
> Offerings that BTW, are of very high interest to the readers of this ng.
>
> When persons like fox, rg, "steve", bernie and others call me names, revile
> me, assault my business practices, and indulge in ineffective attempts at
> character assassination here in this forum -- THEY are the ones who lower
> the quality of the content of AC.
>
> These accusations are baseless, obsessive and extremely boring.
>
> Then there are the cowards such as "steve" (Lars) who hide behind fake names
> and made up addresses. they do not deserve to be dignified with a response.
>
> Yet in spite of the use of 'killfiles' and other absurdities, AND their
> inability to not read what is written, they continue. And Randy G is now
> actually entertaining the thought (and writing about) that I flew from the
> East coast to "stalk" him at the SCAA show. wow.
>
> recognizing the futility of responding to most in this thread and others,
>
> Dave
> 910 616 0980
> always available by phone or email
>
> --
> Davewww.hitechespresso.com
> 877 286 2833




  
Date: 13 May 2007 01:24:51
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@hotmail.com >:
[...]

>Robert (On who thinks of Dave as beneath contempt) Harmon

But not beneath extensive, ongoing notice, apparently.

I'm new here, and don't pretend any acquaintance with this
dispute. As an outsider, it is beyond my ken to cast aspersions
on any poster.

However, I've been on enough newsgroups over the years to
recognize different responses to "problem" posters (again, I cast
aspersions on no one). The ones being offered here are among the
most toxic I've encountered.

This is a shame, because usenet IME is far and away the superior
medium for these threaded, topical discussions -- it certainly
blows away any clunky web interface I've encountered. I wouldn't
be so quick to throw it under the bus.

No matter how well intentioned (or not, it's hard to tell) OT
noise is OT noise. Newgroups that understand this can and do
thrive.

"Moderator(s), moderate thyself".

cheers,
Scott S

--
Scott Sellers


   
Date: 12 May 2007 23:12:02
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Unfortunately, this problem has been going on for WELL over a year
now. The person in question has used numerous aliases, attacked folks
who had just days earlier supported him, given bad advice even in the
face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary by numerous people here
(some engineers and coffee experts), spammed the group with his
commercial messages, contacted me personally by e-mail over and over
even after numerous requests to stop, and more. Yes, Robert's comments
seem unnecessarily vitriolic, but in the history around here they are
understandable. The person in question really has chased off large
numbers of people who got tired of the noise level he created, and it
has turned one of the very best usenet groups into a near-wasteland.

Some of the good folks from years past are still here, but a vast
majority of them have moved on.



Scott Sellers <scottsellers@mindspring.com > wrote:
>
>I'm new here, and don't pretend any acquaintance with this
>dispute. As an outsider, it is beyond my ken to cast aspersions
>on any poster.
>
>However, I've been on enough newsgroups over the years to
>recognize different responses to "problem" posters (again, I cast
>aspersions on no one). The ones being offered here are among the
>most toxic I've encountered.
>
>This is a shame, because usenet IME is far and away the superior
>medium for these threaded, topical discussions -- it certainly
>blows away any clunky web interface I've encountered. I wouldn't
>be so quick to throw it under the bus.
>
>No matter how well intentioned (or not, it's hard to tell) OT
>noise is OT noise. Newgroups that understand this can and do
>thrive.
>
>"Moderator(s), moderate thyself".
>
>cheers,
>Scott S

Randy "" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




    
Date: 14 May 2007 18:09:43
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Randy G <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >:
>Unfortunately, this problem has been going on for WELL over a
>year now. The person in question has used numerous aliases,
>attacked folks who had just days earlier supported him, given
>bad advice even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the
>contrary by numerous people here (some engineers and coffee
>experts), spammed the group with his commercial messages,
>contacted me personally by e-mail over and over even after
>numerous requests to stop, and more. Yes, Robert's comments seem
>unnecessarily vitriolic, but in the history around here they are
>understandable. The person in question really has chased off
>large numbers of people who got tired of the noise level he
>created, and it has turned one of the very best usenet groups
>into a near-wasteland.

Quality content/discussion should win out. OTOH, I've been a
regular on newsgroups that became all but unreadable because too
many posters were spending too much time on the "moderator" end,
until their lusty "vigilance" basically overran the topic. The
cure very easily becomes worse than the problem.

In contrast, I've been on newsgroups where "problem" posters have
come and gone, with little notice and little disruption. It
works. I mean, no one can control what anyone else posts here.
We can absolutely control what we post.

>Some of the good folks from years past are still here, but a vast
>majority of them have moved on.

I think goodfaith efforts are recognized and appreciated.

cheers,
Scott S

--
Scott Sellers


   
Date: 13 May 2007 04:19:00
From: Tony Jester
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
"Scott Sellers" <scottsellers@mindspring.com > wrote in message
news:f25pd2$b5n$1@news.datemas.de...

> medium for these threaded, topical discussions -- it certainly
> blows away any clunky web interface I've encountered. I wouldn't
> be so quick to throw it under the bus.

Oops, too late. I'm afraid AC has not only been thrown under the bus, but
it's been to the morgue and is everything but buried. It's really quite a
shame. At one time, not too long ago really, it was the best of the best.
Not to worry. All the good guys are still around. They just hang out in a
different place now.




    
Date: 14 May 2007 18:09:42
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: a modest suggestion for improvement of AC
Tony Jester <nospam@nospam.org >:
>"Scott Sellers" <scottsellers@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:f25pd2$b5n$1@news.datemas.de...

>> medium for these threaded, topical discussions -- it certainly
>> blows away any clunky web interface I've encountered. I wouldn't
>> be so quick to throw it under the bus.

>Oops, too late. I'm afraid AC has not only been thrown under
>the bus, but it's been to the morgue and is everything but
>buried. It's really quite a shame. At one time, not too long
>ago really, it was the best of the best. Not to worry. All the
>good guys are still around. They just hang out in a different
>place now.

It is a shame. Some can hang, some can't. Usenet is still the
best format for clear, easy, free-flowing discussion and the
exchange of viewpoints, hands down -- even half ruined by M$
Outlook and google groups.

Ain't it the way, though?

cheers,
Scott S

--
Scott Sellers