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Main
Date: 19 Jan 2007 13:11:23
From:
Subject: cliff heller
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hello.
i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
skydiving accident. he was 40.
i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
sincerely, victoria heller
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Date: 29 Jan 2007 14:06:00
From: vsecrets
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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ok folks - thank you for the warm condolences, i'm going to bring this
discussion back to coffee : )
i've solved the leakage problem, it was simply needing to tighten
better...and working on getting a thicker espresso. it's been too
watery lately. flavor still good. do i just need to play with the
grind?
it's so bittersweet for me to have this (his) machine, but mostly it
brings me comfort. feels like i should just be able to call him up and
talk about getting the perfect cup...
~victoria
On Jan 23, 6:01 pm, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Dave - that was very generous of you. Maybe you're not such a bad guy after
> all. :-)
>
> Victoria - So sorry to hear about Cliff. Please take Dave up on his offer
> and ask him to send you a replacement group gasket . One cause for the
> machine leaking is when this gasket dries up and becomes hard. They usually
> have to be replaced every year or so.
>
> "vsecrets" <victoria...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1169490873.282783.208320@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > thank you so much dave.
>
> > daveb wrote:
> >> I am sorry to hear of your loss
>
> >> anything ithe machine needs, I'll send you -- no charge.
>
> >> and don't worry -- you can't break the handle.
>
> >> Dave
> >>www.hitechespresso.com
>
> >> victoria...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > hello.
> >> > i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
> >> > found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
> >> > inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
> >> > skydiving accident. he was 40.
>
> >> > i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
> >> > get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
> >> > figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
>
> >> > sincerely, victoria heller
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 19:23:39
From: RoughJaw
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:37:27 -0500, Jack Denver wrote:
> It's amazing to me that a man writing in 12th century Egypt could see the
> "charity vs. ego" question as one involving various subtle gradations on a
> spectrum while you in the 21st century see it only as an "either/or"
> question.
In this particular instance, both people posted from google groups. Our
subject had two options. Either hit "reply to the group" or hit "reply by
e-mail." So yes, IN THIS INSTANCE, it does boil down to an either/or
choice:
1) a public "show of generosity."
2) a private "act of generosity."
One or both may be a shade of gray, but there were only two alternatives.
> Then again, you're no Maimonides. I suppose even Maimonides
> would say that there comes a point where the "giving" is so token and
> the ego/promotion driven motives so predominant that an act no longer
> "counts" as charity at all, but Dave's orignal offer falls somewhere in
> the middle of the spectrum - even if his motives were 80% promotional
> and 20% charitable, that's 20% more charity than you've offered.
<smile > The whole point is that you don't know anything about my
generosity, and given my view on the subject, you never will (at least
not from me).
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 23:32:26
From: ramboorider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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Both. Which is far better than nothing and better than that if it
encourages others to do the same.
-Ray
On Jan 24, 12:37 am, RoughJaw wrote:
> When a politician goes into Katrina-land, camera crew in tow, and rolls
> up his sleeves to move debris from someone's front yard, is he performing
> an act of generosity, or is he buying himself some PR?
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 05:37:42
From: RoughJaw
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:02:45 -0500, Jack Denver wrote:
> that does not mean that the
> "lower" forms of charity (publicly known charity) don't count as good deeds
> as well.
When a politician goes into Katrina-land, camera crew in tow, and rolls
up his sleeves to move debris from someone's front yard, is he performing
an act of generosity, or is he buying himself some PR?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 10:37:27
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
It's amazing to me that a man writing in 12th century Egypt could see the
"charity vs. ego" question as one involving various subtle gradations on a
spectrum while you in the 21st century see it only as an "either/or"
question. Then again, you're no Maimonides. I suppose even Maimonides would
say that there comes a point where the "giving" is so token and the
ego/promotion driven motives so predominant that an act no longer "counts"
as charity at all, but Dave's orignal offer falls somewhere in the middle of
the spectrum - even if his motives were 80% promotional and 20% charitable,
that's 20% more charity than you've offered.
"RoughJaw" <rj@gmail.invalid > wrote in message
news:45b6f0a6$0$24416$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:02:45 -0500, Jack Denver wrote:
>
>> that does not mean that the
>> "lower" forms of charity (publicly known charity) don't count as good
>> deeds
>> as well.
>
> When a politician goes into Katrina-land, camera crew in tow, and rolls
> up his sleeves to move debris from someone's front yard, is he performing
> an act of generosity, or is he buying himself some PR?
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 00:40:57
From: RoughJaw
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:01:49 -0500, Jack Denver wrote:
> Dave - that was very generous of you. Maybe you're not such a bad guy after
> all. :-)
Had the offer been made via e-mail, it would have been due solely to
generosity.
However, having been made in public, there were other motives at work. As
Bernie said, real cowboys (alties) don't make a show of themselves.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 22:02:45
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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You're wrong about this. Over 800 years ago, Maimonides described 8 levels
of charity. It's true that giving anonymously and giving to an unknown
recipient are "higher" forms of charity but that does not mean that the
"lower" forms of charity (publicly known charity) don't count as good deeds
as well. Our universities, orchestras, museums, etc. are filled with and
named for the results of publicly advertised charity and we'd be much worse
off if the only kind of giving permitted was anonymous.
"RoughJaw" <rj@gmail.invalid > wrote in message
news:45b6ab19$0$24441$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:01:49 -0500, Jack Denver wrote:
>
>> Dave - that was very generous of you. Maybe you're not such a bad guy
>> after
>> all. :-)
>
> Had the offer been made via e-mail, it would have been due solely to
> generosity.
> However, having been made in public, there were other motives at work. As
> Bernie said, real cowboys (alties) don't make a show of themselves.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 05:16:10
From:
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:02:45 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>as well. Our universities, orchestras, museums, etc. are filled with and
>named for the results of publicly advertised charity and we'd be much worse
>off if the only kind of giving permitted was anonymous.
does charity offset vanity?
--anonymous "sometimes buys organic and fair trade but doesn't tell
anyone"
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 10:22:38
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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What is this, alt.philosophy?
The answer is that yes it does, somewhat. It's certainly better than vanity
that is not coupled to charity. Compare "Trump Tower" to "Carnegie Hall".
>
>
> does charity offset vanity?
>
>
> --anonymous "sometimes buys organic and fair trade but doesn't tell
> anyone"
>
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 17:57:44
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: cliff heller
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:22:38 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>What is this, alt.philosophy?
>
ummm... well.... memorizing electron exchange pathways was beyond
me, and the philo major saved me $10G.
so now i'm in coffee. ;)
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Date: 22 Jan 2007 10:47:00
From: vsecrets
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
hi randy. wow! thanks : )
> An additional benefit is to
> those who have adopted PID control since this method makes it easier
> to sense the differences in taste created by small changes in brew
> temperature.
what is PID? and PF is portafilter, yes?
> 1- Using the doser on my Rocky I find that it is best to start dosing
> as soon as the grinding begins. Place the portafilter under the doser
> and turn on the grinder. As the grinder runs, repeatedly click the
> doser lever while moving the portafilter so that the coffee is dosed
> as evenly as possible. Continue this until the portafilter is just a
> little overfilled. The goal here is the fill the portafilter as evenly
> an level as possible, avoiding the "middle mountain" and the voids
> around the edges that invariably are created if dosing from a full
> doser.
i have a la pavoni grinder. do u recommend the rocky? i can't place my
PF under the grinder...what do you mean when u write "click the doser
level"?
> Hope that helps get you started. When it comes to grinding, start with
> a grind that chokes the machine, then work up, one click at a time
> until the espresso dribbles out... at that point you are one, or at
> the most, two clicks away from the "sweet spot."
what does "chokes the machine" mean?
> Additionally, making Americano (adding about 4 to 6 ounces of hot
> water to a double shot) is a good way to test the taste of the
> espresso if you are not accustomed to it.
no need for this - love the taste : )
you are so helpful. really appreciate it.
~victoria
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Date: 22 Jan 2007 10:58:35
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
"vsecrets" <victorias12@gmail.com > wrote:
>hi randy. wow! thanks : )
>
>> An additional benefit is to
>> those who have adopted PID control since this method makes it easier
>> to sense the differences in taste created by small changes in brew
>> temperature.
>
>what is PID? and PF is portafilter, yes?
>
Sorry... Forgot you were new here... PID is a sort of digital,
computerized thermostat that some of us have installed in our espresso
machines to replace the brew thermostat. There is a lot of info on
this on my website. Additionally, if you do a Google Groups search on
this you will get enough info to earn an engineering degree! ;-)
>i have a la pavoni grinder. do u recommend the rocky? i can't place my
>PF under the grinder...what do you mean when u write "click the doser
>level"?
>
I try not to recommend any specific grinders (although I live happily
with my Rocky). Owners of the LP grinder can possibly comment on its
ability to function with Silvia.
>> Hope that helps get you started. When it comes to grinding, start with
>> a grind that chokes the machine, then work up, one click at a time
>> until the espresso dribbles out... at that point you are one, or at
>> the most, two clicks away from the "sweet spot."
>
>what does "chokes the machine" mean?
>
You grind so fine that when you turn on the brew switch that nothing
comes out of the portafilter for a long time, or sometimes not at all.
>> Additionally, making Americano (adding about 4 to 6 ounces of hot
>> water to a double shot) is a good way to test the taste of the
>> espresso if you are not accustomed to it.
>
>no need for this - love the taste : )
>
Then you are well ahead of the curve at this point. :-D
>you are so helpful. really appreciate it.
>~victoria
>
Always glad to assist.
Randy "...my family thinks differently" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 22 Jan 2007 10:34:33
From: vsecrets
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
thank you so much dave.
daveb wrote:
> I am sorry to hear of your loss
>
> anything ithe machine needs, I'll send you -- no charge.
>
>
> and don't worry -- you can't break the handle.
>
> Dave
> www.hitechespresso.com
>
>
>
> victorias12@gmail.com wrote:
> > hello.
> > i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
> > found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
> > inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
> > skydiving accident. he was 40.
> >
> > i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
> > get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
> > figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
> >
> > sincerely, victoria heller
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 18:01:49
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
Dave - that was very generous of you. Maybe you're not such a bad guy after
all. :-)
Victoria - So sorry to hear about Cliff. Please take Dave up on his offer
and ask him to send you a replacement group gasket . One cause for the
machine leaking is when this gasket dries up and becomes hard. They usually
have to be replaced every year or so.
"vsecrets" <victorias12@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1169490873.282783.208320@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> thank you so much dave.
>
>
> daveb wrote:
>> I am sorry to hear of your loss
>>
>> anything ithe machine needs, I'll send you -- no charge.
>>
>>
>> and don't worry -- you can't break the handle.
>>
>> Dave
>> www.hitechespresso.com
>>
>>
>>
>> victorias12@gmail.com wrote:
>> > hello.
>> > i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
>> > found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
>> > inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
>> > skydiving accident. he was 40.
>> >
>> > i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
>> > get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
>> > figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
>> >
>> > sincerely, victoria heller
>
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Date: 20 Jan 2007 14:16:18
From: daveb
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
I am sorry to hear of your loss
anything ithe machine needs, I'll send you -- no charge.
and don't worry -- you can't break the handle.
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
victorias12@gmail.com wrote:
> hello.
> i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
> found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
> inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
> skydiving accident. he was 40.
>
> i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
> get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
> figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
>
> sincerely, victoria heller
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Date: 20 Jan 2007 10:23:50
From:
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
Sorry to hear about your brother,That's very tragic. My condolences to
you and your family.
I had the same problem with my Sylvia. As it turns out I was wasn't
seating the portfilter hard enough. You have to really crank it on to
get a good seat. You have to almost "hug" the machine and turn the
handle as hard as you can.
Good luck,
Chuck
On Jan 19, 4:11 pm, victoria...@gmail.com wrote:
> hello.
> i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
> found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
> inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
> skydiving accident. he was 40.
>
> i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
> get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
> figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
>
> sincerely, victoria heller
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Date: 19 Jan 2007 22:46:17
From: vsecrets
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
Randy G. wrote:
> First, my condolences. he left us doing what he loved to do, and we
> should all be so fortunate, although he was far too young.
thanks so much randy. yes - he truly loved skydiving. there is a lot of
amazing video of him and he was a sight to behold in the air. so happy
and peaceful up there. and he will be sorely missed. for the rest of my
life.
did you know him only from here? are you a skydiver too?
> As far as Silvia- if the dripping is coming from around the
> portafilter when pulling a shot (that is, running over the sides of
> the body of the portafilter) there are two possibilities... err,
> three:
>
> 1) you need to tighten the portafilter with greater force. Hold the
> machine with one hand and really tighten it before starting the pull
i will try this. am i correct when i say that the filter shouldn't be
filled up to the top. i found (only made three shots so far) that i
couldn't even get the filter to fit into its slot sometimes, and had to
scrape some off. this wasn't the case with my machine (pavoni)
> 2) the gasket up in the brewhead need cleaning. There are special,
> angled, stiff-bristle brushes for that purpose.
i will try this too. cliff had one of those brushes....and i will for
sure read through your website.
victoria
>
>
> victorias12@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >hello.
> >i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
> >found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
> >inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
> >skydiving accident. he was 40.
> >
> >i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
> >get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
> >figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
> >
> >sincerely, victoria heller
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Date: 20 Jan 2007 21:34:01
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
"vsecrets" <victorias12@gmail.com > wrote:
>thanks so much randy. yes - he truly loved skydiving. there is a lot of
>amazing video of him and he was a sight to behold in the air. so happy
>and peaceful up there. and he will be sorely missed. for the rest of my
>life.
>did you know him only from here? are you a skydiver too?
>
No, I did not know him- I did a search for his presence on the
Internet and in the alt.coffee archives. I don't live too far from
Davis, so it all sort of came 'round full circle. I never went in for
skydiving, though. About as far as I got was track bicycle racing-
35mph, inches away from a bunch of other bikes, and no brakes.. that
and motorcycling. and firefighting...
>i will try this. am i correct when i say that the filter shouldn't be
>filled up to the top. i found (only made three shots so far) that i
>couldn't even get the filter to fit into its slot sometimes, and had to
>scrape some off. this wasn't the case with my machine (pavoni)
>
here's What I do:
---------------begin-----------------------
Dosing and Tamping:
I have been using this modified Dose and Tamp procedure which is a
combination of a number of things I have read and other procedures I
have developed over time. I have found that it gives very consistent
results this way. Use this as a STARTING PLACE and adjust the
procedure over time to match your style. Consistency is the key, and
for new users the following method makes it easy to be sure that your
dose and tamping is the same every time. An additional benefit is to
those who have adopted PID control since this method makes it easier
to sense the differences in taste created by small changes in brew
temperature.
1- Using the doser on my Rocky I find that it is best to start dosing
as soon as the grinding begins. Place the portafilter under the doser
and turn on the grinder. As the grinder runs, repeatedly click the
doser lever while moving the portafilter so that the coffee is dosed
as evenly as possible. Continue this until the portafilter is just a
little overfilled. The goal here is the fill the portafilter as evenly
an level as possible, avoiding the "middle mountain" and the voids
around the edges that invariably are created if dosing from a full
doser.
This method accomplishes two things. It eliminates voids and it
eliminates clumping- both of which cause fracturing of the puck during
the pull.
If necessary, every few clicks of the dosing lever (if you have a
doser model) shake the PF _GENTLY_ to get the grounds to be level in
the basket. The best thing is to "dose all around," but the goal is to
get the coffee to be as evenly distributed as possible while doing as
little compacting as possible. Continue until you overfill the basket.
Do so as evenly as possible- try to avoid creating a mountain in the
middle with voids around the outside. Slowly operating the dosing
lever while moving the PF around a little helps.
2- Use the straight handle of a plastic coffee measure or similar tool
to distribute the coffee across the top of the basket. Your goal is to
fill any remaining voids (if there are any) without compacting the
coffee at all. In other words, work across the coffee without pushing
it downwards. The portafilter should still be slightly overfilled when
finished with this step.
3- Use the straight handle of a plastic coffee measure or similar tool
and GENTLY tap one or two times on the side of the PF. This is only
to fill any voids in the coffee that were not dealt with in the step
above. The goal here is to distribute coffee evenly. You are NOT
trying to compact the coffee at all, so tap laterally, not vertically.
[NOTE- The above step works really well with the La zocco double
basket and other larger-than-stock baskets which hold more coffee than
the original Rancilio single or double filter baskets. It can create a
situation with the original Rancilio basket in which there is too much
coffee making it difficult to lock the portafilter or it can press the
coffee up against the shower screen leaving a mess in there and not
allowing the coffee to expand during the pull. If you use the stock
basket and you find that happening, try skipping step 3 and proceed to
step 4.]
4- Use that plastic tool (or similar) to level the coffee across the
top of the basket. Be sure to work the coffee back and forth to
further fill any voids around the edges if any remain (if the previous
steps are carefully followed there should be virtually no voids). Try
to only level ACROSS the top of the portafilter basket without pushing
the coffee downward so as NOT to compact the coffee.
5- Now that the coffee is leveled and the portafilter is filled with
coffee, tap the spout downward two or three times on the counter top
to settle the grounds. They will drop about 2mm in height or so. This
further distributes the coffee evenly before the tamping.
6- A book can be written about tamping- everything from no tamp to the
"handstand tamp" seems to work for someone, somewhere, but here is
what I have been doing:
A- I begin with a "clock tamp." Tamp lightly at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, and
9:00. Tamp at one position, lift the tamper enough to clear the
coffee, then tamp at the next position. This further helps evenly
distribute the coffee. This is done lightly- I would estimate it to be
no more than about 5 pounds of force. Think of it more as a
distribution than a compression action.
B- Now I use the joystick tamp- when I finish the 9:00 tamp I do a
circle tamp as if turning a joystick one full circle around its axis.
This compacts the outer perimeter leaving just a very slight mound in
the center. This evens out the coffee in case the previous step caused
any high and low areas.
C- Now a normal tamp with the tamper held level at about 15-20 pounds
of force. If you do not have a good feel for this low level of force,
use a scale to learn what it feels like. For most new users it takes a
lot less effort than you might think.
D- Using the top of the tamper's handle, lightly tap the outer side of
the portafilter body to knock loose any coffee missed by the tamper.
E- Final tamp using about 25 to 30 pounds of force.
F- Turn the portafilter upside down over the doser to eliminate any
loose coffee. This also tests your tamping efforts to be sure that the
coffee is full and evenly compacted and stuck in the basket. Every
once in a while (about 1 in 75 or so) I have one fall back into the
doser!
If you have not used a scale to measure your tamp before I highly
recommend doing so to get a feel for this tamping force. It is a lot
less force than most people think. I have found that the 'lighter'
tamp gives a better extraction because of the finer grind that it
necessitates (as opposed to a 35 or 40 pound tamp).
Although the procedure sounds time consuming, after some practice it
becomes fast and easy, and helps to give more consistent results by
eliminating (or lessening) one variable. This is particularly true for
the home barrista who probably makes fewer espressi in a month or two
than a professional barrista makes in a day.
-------------------------end-------------------------------------------
Hope that helps get you started. When it comes to grinding, start with
a grind that chokes the machine, then work up, one click at a time
until the espresso dribbles out... at that point you are one, or at
the most, two clicks away from the "sweet spot."
Additionally, making Americano (adding about 4 to 6 ounces of hot
water to a double shot) is a good way to test the taste of the
espresso if you are not accustomed to it.
Randy "over 6 years and still learning" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
|
| |
Date: 19 Jan 2007 16:56:38
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: cliff heller
|
First, my condolences. he left us doing what he loved to do, and we
should all be so fortunate, although he was far too young.
As far as Silvia- if the dripping is coming from around the
portafilter when pulling a shot (that is, running over the sides of
the body of the portafilter) there are two possibilities... err,
three:
1) you need to tighten the portafilter with greater force. Hold the
machine with one hand and really tighten it before starting the pull
2) the gasket up in the brewhead need cleaning. There are special,
angled, stiff-bristle brushes for that purpose.
3) the gasket needs to be replaced. They do get hard over time.
because of the age of the machine, this is not likely the problem.
Additionally, the grinder is probably not the problem either. You can
put whatever you want in the basket, and there should be no leaks from
the brewhead when pulling a shot.
Additional information, general and specific, can be found on my
website...:
Randy "Gen. Specific." G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
victorias12@gmail.com wrote:
>
>hello.
>i don't know if this type of news gets around. but these posts were
>found doing a search for my brother cliff heller, and i wanted to
>inform all who communicated with him, that he died dec. 30 in a
>skydiving accident. he was 40.
>
>i have inherited his new sylvia, and may be back to ask you all how to
>get it to stop dripping water out of the top of the filter, if i can't
>figure it out myself....and i KNOW, get a new grinder : )
>
>sincerely, victoria heller
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