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Main
Date: 18 Jun 2006 14:58:37
From: Randy G.
Subject: 3-way and Backflushing
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I have just added a monsterous set of pages explaining how a 3-way
valve works and why it needs to be backflushed, what can happen when
you don't keep it clean, and more. See the link on my website under
the "OTHER" section (in the right-hand pane) entitled, "3-Way Valve
How and Why."
Randy "once a teacher..." G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 13:35:45
From: Rusty
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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Thanks Randy for making the innards of Silvia so easy to understand.
You have just reminded me its time to backflush :-(
Rusty
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:82jb921bi42nssv5g8ttspo7kj98hktg0d@4ax.com...
>I have just added a monsterous set of pages explaining how a 3-way
> valve works and why it needs to be backflushed, what can happen when
> you don't keep it clean, and more. See the link on my website under
> the "OTHER" section (in the right-hand pane) entitled, "3-Way Valve
> How and Why."
>
>
> Randy "once a teacher..." G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 10:06:02
From: hudson
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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"Rusty" <kenrussell@optus YOUR HAT home.com.au > wrote in message
news:44961b93$0$20605$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Thanks Randy for making the innards of Silvia so easy to understand.
>
> You have just reminded me its time to backflush :-(
>
> Rusty
Or Gaggia or any other machine with a 3 way valve. I have always backflushed
since I started reading this news group many years ago and now I have been
told the mechanical reason why I should do it apart from the obvious taste
reason. Thank you for that.
Regards
Stuart Hudson
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Date: 18 Jun 2006 19:04:03
From: LF
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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Randy G. wrote:
> I have just added a monsterous set of pages explaining how a 3-way
> valve works and why it needs to be backflushed ... <snip>
Thanks Randy for the 3-way valve information. It looks like some
backflushing is in order for my Rancillio Nancy, which as probably
never been backflushed.
All the best,
Larry
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 03:52:03
From: daveb
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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NICE diagram -- unproven results.
dave "drot8r56nn6yepou8g" b
Randy G. wrote:
> I have just added a monsterous set of pages explaining how a 3-way
> valve works and why it needs to be backflushed, what can happen when
> you don't keep it clean, and more. See the link on my website under
> the "OTHER" section (in the right-hand pane) entitled, "3-Way Valve
> How and Why."
>
>
> Randy "once a teacher..." G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 03:30:04
From: daveb
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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Nothin' like the 'ol BF topic to get rg going!
hudson wrote:
> "Rusty" <kenrussell@optus YOUR HAT home.com.au> wrote in message
> news:44961b93$0$20605$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > Thanks Randy for making the innards of Silvia so easy to understand.
> >
> > You have just reminded me its time to backflush :-(
> >
> > Rusty
>
> Or Gaggia or any other machine with a 3 way valve. I have always backflushed
> since I started reading this news group many years ago and now I have been
> told the mechanical reason why I should do it apart from the obvious taste
> reason. Thank you for that.
>
> Regards
>
> Stuart Hudson
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 21:43:33
From: dadvocate
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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daveb wrote:
> NICE diagram -- unproven results.
What do you mean by this? That you don't agree that dirty water will
clog the circuit over time or that backflushing won't prevent this?
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 12:08:25
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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"dadvocate" <dadvocate666@hotmail.com > wrote:
>daveb wrote:
>> NICE diagram -- unproven results.
>
>What do you mean by this? That you don't agree that dirty water will
>clog the circuit over time or that backflushing won't prevent this?
INTERNET SEARCH HITS
FROOGLE GOOGLE:
blind portafilter basket - 14 467
blind filter espresso - 255 811
backflush disc - 9 9,930,000
backflush espresso - 16 12,400
backflushing an espresso machine 136 829
"do not backflush" espresso * 21
What percentage of the above sources state that backflushing is wrong,
without merit, or will void your warranty?
Some points to ponder:
-Properly done (with common sense and care) there is no way that
occasionally backflushing, on its own merit, will damage an espresso
machine. If some part fails in your machine during the backflushing
process it was about to fail anyway.
-Conversely, not backflushing an espresso machine has the potential of
allowing coffee oils and debris to build up and cause clogging,
malfunction, or bad tastes in the espresso. A person who makes a
living repairing espresso machines who tells you NOT to do something
that could possible avoid repairs and the associated costs should not
be trusted.
-There is NO WAY any manufacturer will know that you were backflushing
unless you either tell them or ship the machine back with the blind
filter in place.
-Backflushing is the same as choking a machine with too fine of a
grind or turning on the hot water switch and not opening the hot water
valve. Will your manufacturer void your warranty for using too fine of
a grind? No. If running the pump with the hot water switch was that
bad for the machine then there would be a switch that would not let
the pump operate until the valve was opened.
-Note that when the Google search for "do not backflush espresso" is
entered, nearly all the hits state something like, "Caution: DO NOT
backflush espresso machines that don't have a 3-way electro valve,"
or, "Do not backflush piston machines!" None of them state that
backflushing will void your warranty.
BOTTOM LINE:
Can the backflushing process hurt your machine if done properly: NO
Can NOT backflushing a machine have negative consequences: YES
Randy "I should do a webpage on this stuff" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 21:41:20
From: dadvocate
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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Nice pages there. 2 questions..
Does the Sylvia OPV actually work that way? It seems a sure way to
reduce the boiler temp stability. Most machines I've seen have the OPV
between the pump and the boiler (which also reduces the OPV heat
exposure).
Can you recolor the green and yellow sections where you demonstrate
where the dirty water lies after the solenoid has relieved the puck
pressure? The green especially is very close to the color you use to
indicate the clean water.
Still a good job though.
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 22:23:48
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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"dadvocate" <dadvocate666@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Nice pages there. 2 questions..
>
>Does the Sylvia OPV actually work that way? It seems a sure way to
>reduce the boiler temp stability. Most machines I've seen have the OPV
>between the pump and the boiler (which also reduces the OPV heat
>exposure).
>
The OPV on Silvia is mounted on the boiler.
>Can you recolor the green and yellow sections where you demonstrate
>where the dirty water lies after the solenoid has relieved the puck
>pressure? The green especially is very close to the color you use to
>indicate the clean water.
>
Done
>Still a good job though.
THANKS!
Randy "even my wife learned from it!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 16:58:29
From: Brian Colwell
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:82jb921bi42nssv5g8ttspo7kj98hktg0d@4ax.com...
>I have just added a monsterous set of pages explaining how a 3-way
> valve works and why it needs to be backflushed, what can happen when
> you don't keep it clean, and more. See the link on my website under
> the "OTHER" section (in the right-hand pane) entitled, "3-Way Valve
> How and Why."
>
>
> Randy "once a teacher..." G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
Thanks Randy, A great source of information.
BMC
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 12:53:31
From: daveb
Subject: Re: 3-way and Backflushing
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from RG:
<< A person who makes a living repairing espresso machines who tells
you NOT to do something that could possible avoid repairs and the
associated costs should not
be trusted. >>
HEY, RANDY! I don't need more work, I have plenty! really! but
thanks!
Psst! to others: Isn't it amazing how and obsession can consume one's
life?
Dave "dastrt 980 7dr44gmm" b
Randy G. wrote:
> "dadvocate" <dadvocate666@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >daveb wrote:
> >> NICE diagram -- unproven results.
> >
>
> >What do you mean by this? That you don't agree that dirty water will
> >clog the circuit over time or that backflushing won't prevent this?
>
> INTERNET SEARCH HITS
>
> FROOGLE GOOGLE:
> blind portafilter basket - 14 467
> blind filter espresso - 255 811
> backflush disc - 9 9,930,000
> backflush espresso - 16 12,400
> backflushing an espresso machine 136 829
> "do not backflush" espresso * 21
>
> What percentage of the above sources state that backflushing is wrong,
> without merit, or will void your warranty?
>
> Some points to ponder:
>
> -Properly done (with common sense and care) there is no way that
> occasionally backflushing, on its own merit, will damage an espresso
> machine. If some part fails in your machine during the backflushing
> process it was about to fail anyway.
>
> -Conversely, not backflushing an espresso machine has the potential of
> allowing coffee oils and debris to build up and cause clogging,
> malfunction, or bad tastes in the espresso. A person who makes a
> living repairing espresso machines who tells you NOT to do something
> that could possible avoid repairs and the associated costs should not
> be trusted.
>
> -There is NO WAY any manufacturer will know that you were backflushing
> unless you either tell them or ship the machine back with the blind
> filter in place.
>
> -Backflushing is the same as choking a machine with too fine of a
> grind or turning on the hot water switch and not opening the hot water
> valve. Will your manufacturer void your warranty for using too fine of
> a grind? No. If running the pump with the hot water switch was that
> bad for the machine then there would be a switch that would not let
> the pump operate until the valve was opened.
>
> -Note that when the Google search for "do not backflush espresso" is
> entered, nearly all the hits state something like, "Caution: DO NOT
> backflush espresso machines that don't have a 3-way electro valve,"
> or, "Do not backflush piston machines!" None of them state that
> backflushing will void your warranty.
>
> BOTTOM LINE:
> Can the backflushing process hurt your machine if done properly: NO
> Can NOT backflushing a machine have negative consequences: YES
>
>
> Randy "I should do a webpage on this stuff" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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