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Main
Date: 26 Jun 2006 08:55:46
From: jkdrummer@yahoo.com
Subject: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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This one - Model A-9:
http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
Thanks
JaKe
Seattle
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 13:00:17
From: Serge Dasara
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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On 26 Jun 2006 08:55:46 -0700, jkdrummer@yahoo.com typed:
> This one - Model A-9:
>
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>
> Thanks
> JaKe
> Seattle
Yes and no. I owned the original which my mom bought in the 1940s and
gave to me in the 60s for my first apartment. It lasted until 1999; I
was unable to obtain parts for it then - as I had in the intervening
years.
I then bought the first batch of the "re-issues" and it's just as
good as the original - and I could not figure out why so many alties
have been panning it in the last two years.
So I decided to buy a second one for decaf last month, and was
surprised to see that it had been completely re-designed! The model
that is reviewed online and here is not the same as my first re-issue:
I now has a wider chute with a bar across it, and a motor that turns
*way* too fast; it's noisy and makes a mess. It's nothing like the one
I bought in 2001!
And none of them were ever suitable for micro-grinding for espresso,
but were excellent for drip or french press.
The difference between them is subtle, but noticeable if you have
them side by side: The original and first re-issue have long narrow
chutes, the 1940s has a square door; the replacements a chrome, round
one. The later reissue has a shorter and wider chute with a bar across
it.
If you can pick up one of the first re-issues, go for it!
--
Cordially,
Serge Dasara
6/26/2006 12:50:17 PM
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 09:30:21
From: daveb
Subject: Anyone like Kitchen Aid
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Impression? cheap chinese toy.
quote from a sad owner on CG review:
"Last about 2 -3 weeks at most. We are in the process of getting our
third grinder. We returned the first two. The grinder is too fast and
therefore it gets bogged down and the grinder quite turning. It doesn't
grind fine enough for expresso either. "
Hmmm, IMHO -- stay away, far away!
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 12:35:31
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Anyone like Kitchen Aid
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"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151339421.534345.171370@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Impression? cheap chinese toy.
>
> quote from a sad owner on CG review:
>
> "Last about 2 -3 weeks at most. We are in the process of getting our
> third grinder. We returned the first two. The grinder is too fast
> and
> therefore it gets bogged down and the grinder quite turning. It
> doesn't
> grind fine enough for expresso either. "
>
> Hmmm, IMHO -- stay away, far away!
>
JonR10 on the CG forums has had an old model in his office & he said
it's easily over 30 years old!
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/65839
Craig.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 12:13:06
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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<jkdrummer@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151337346.031922.101290@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> This one - Model A-9:
>
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>
> Thanks
> JaKe
> Seattle
>
Lots of reviews here:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/kitchenaidretro/swami & some
mods on the Coffeegeek forums to tweak the grinder for better function.
Craig.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 12:54:16
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote in message
news:4gafckF1mbu1bU1@individual.net...
>
> <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1151337346.031922.101290@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>> This one - Model A-9:
>>
>> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>
>> Thanks
>> JaKe
>> Seattle
>>
>
> Lots of reviews here:
> http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/kitchenaidretro/swami &
> some mods on the Coffeegeek forums to tweak the grinder for better
> function.
> Craig.
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/232511
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/146617
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/search?RET=%2Fforums%2Fespresso%2Fmachines&DO=&Form_Search=KitchenAid%2BA9&Form_Author=CraigA&Form_Forum=&Form_AsPosts=1&Form_Before=1&Form_Days=&Form_SortField=SearchRank&Form_Descending=1&Form_Submit=Search+Discussions
Craig.
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 05:11:06
From: Colin B.
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com > wrote:
> This one - Model A-9:
>
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well, they
suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few months.
I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid in the last
few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't want to make
good products anymore.
I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 20:52:38
From: Tom
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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When I first saw it, I was excited because I thought it would attach to my
Kitchen Aid mixer, which would give it a nice adjustable slow speed. Then I
saw it in a store and realized it was a 'stand alone'. Reading the reviews,
I'm glad I didn't buy it.
Tom
<jkdrummer@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151337346.031922.101290@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> This one - Model A-9:
>
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>
> Thanks
> JaKe
> Seattle
>
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 12:06:05
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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That raises a good question - why don't they make a coffee grinder
attachment for the KA mixer? I think they do make a "grain mill" which
would probably grind coffee too, though I don't know how well or at what
range of grinds:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004SGFL/104-0340415-0807976?v=glance&n=284507
In general I think the KA mixer attachment lineup is not as vigorous as it
should be - that nice big motor with speed control could be used for a lot
of stuff. The ones that they do make are overpriced and haven't been
redesigned for decades nor have they increased the lineup. Also I wonder why
no third parties make stuff that could be attached. The whole concept I
don't think panned out they way they thought it woud, probably because the
economics are just not there - it's cheaper per unit to make 100,000 free
standing grinders with their own motor that you can sell to everyone than it
is to make 1,000 KA grinder attachments that you can only sell to KA owners.
Also the horizontal shaft orientation is not that good for a lot of things -
most small appliances run off a vertical shaft.
"Tom" <tjwitman@bellsouth.net > wrote in message
news:yj%ng.101951$QU3.89251@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> When I first saw it, I was excited because I thought it would attach to my
> Kitchen Aid mixer, which would give it a nice adjustable slow speed. Then
> I saw it in a store and realized it was a 'stand alone'. Reading the
> reviews, I'm glad I didn't buy it.
>
> Tom
>
> <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1151337346.031922.101290@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>> This one - Model A-9:
>>
>> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>
>> Thanks
>> JaKe
>> Seattle
>>
>
>
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 14:04:19
From: daveb
Subject: Kitchen Aid or Rocky????
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I think the rocky is underpriced --
if you get one that looks good
and is well finished,
and you cut out that stupid cone over the bean inlet.
Dave "cts45v4" b
www.hitechespresso.com
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> I bought a KA Proline some months ago following a long, trying tale of
> woe with a Rocky. It WILL grind fine enough though you may have to
> fiddle with a burrs a bit to get it to do so. However, it will not
> grind evenly...or at least I cannot make it do so. So...after an
> initial honeymoon period, I put it on the other side of the bar where
> it serves the Technivorm. Got myself a spanking new Rocky and thus far
> it has done a very fine job.
>
> Will
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 03:37:38
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid or Rocky????
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On 26 Jun 2006 14:04:19 -0700, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
>I think the rocky is underpriced --
>if you get one that looks good
>and is well finished,
>and you cut out that stupid cone over the bean inlet.
>
>Dave "cts45v4" b
>
>www.hitechespresso.com
>
>Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>> I bought a KA Proline some months ago following a long, trying tale of
>> woe with a Rocky. It WILL grind fine enough though you may have to
>> fiddle with a burrs a bit to get it to do so. However, it will not
>> grind evenly...or at least I cannot make it do so. So...after an
>> initial honeymoon period, I put it on the other side of the bar where
>> it serves the Technivorm. Got myself a spanking new Rocky and thus far
>> it has done a very fine job.
>>
>> Will
Rocky still looks like he went too many rounds with Mr. T.
Had a KA Proline, did all the mods... got an Macap M4... game over.
... except for a Virtuoso for drip and press.
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 00:01:11
From: Brian Colwell
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid or Rocky????
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"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151355859.254884.86310@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>I think the rocky is underpriced --
> if you get one that looks good
> and is well finished,
> and you cut out that stupid cone over the bean inlet.
>
> Dave "cts45v4" b
>
> www.hitechespresso.com
>
> Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>> I bought a KA Proline some months ago following a long, trying tale of
>> woe with a Rocky. It WILL grind fine enough though you may have to
>> fiddle with a burrs a bit to get it to do so. However, it will not
>> grind evenly...or at least I cannot make it do so. So...after an
>> initial honeymoon period, I put it on the other side of the bar where
>> it serves the Technivorm. Got myself a spanking new Rocky and thus far
>> it has done a very fine job.
>>
>> Will
>
What is your reasoning, for removing the cone over the inlet ?
BMC
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 17:56:10
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid or Rocky????
|
Brian Colwell wrote:
>
> "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151355859.254884.86310@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>I think the rocky is underpriced --
>> if you get one that looks good
>> and is well finished,
>> and you cut out that stupid cone over the bean inlet.
>>
>> Dave "cts45v4" b
>>
>> www.hitechespresso.com
>>
>> Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I bought a KA Proline some months ago following a long, trying tale of
>>> woe with a Rocky. It WILL grind fine enough though you may have to
>>> fiddle with a burrs a bit to get it to do so. However, it will not
>>> grind evenly...or at least I cannot make it do so. So...after an
>>> initial honeymoon period, I put it on the other side of the bar where
>>> it serves the Technivorm. Got myself a spanking new Rocky and thus far
>>> it has done a very fine job.
>>>
>>> Will
>>
> What is your reasoning, for removing the cone over the inlet ?
Sometimes a bean dam will form in the orifices to the cone, blocking the
feed until the beans are given a stir. Only seems to happen with really
oily beans.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 11:47:39
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid or Rocky????
|
>>>I think the rocky is underpriced --
>>> if you get one that looks good
>>> and is well finished,
>>> and you cut out that stupid cone over the bean inlet.
>>>
>>> Dave "cts45v4" b
>>>
>>>> I bought a KA Proline some months ago following a long, trying tale of
>>>> woe with a Rocky. It WILL grind fine enough though you may have to
>>>> fiddle with a burrs a bit to get it to do so. However, it will not
>>>> grind evenly...or at least I cannot make it do so. So...after an
>>>> initial honeymoon period, I put it on the other side of the bar where
>>>> it serves the Technivorm. Got myself a spanking new Rocky and thus far
>>>> it has done a very fine job.
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>
>> What is your reasoning, for removing the cone over the inlet ?
>
> Sometimes a bean dam will form in the orifices to the cone, blocking the
> feed until the beans are given a stir. Only seems to happen with really
> oily beans.
>
> --
> --John
I have seen it hapen on several different grinders, but not with oily
beans - I can see that oily beans may have a higher chance of sticking...
Brent
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 13:51:02
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Anyone like Kitchen Aid
|
Can't be the same thing??
Dave
>
> JonR10 on the CG forums has had an old model in his office & he said
> it's easily over 30 years old!
> http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/65839
> Craig.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 17:36:39
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Anyone like Kitchen Aid
|
"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151355062.728368.152990@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> Can't be the same thing??
>
> Dave
>
Yes!, check my links!
Craig.
>
>>
>> JonR10 on the CG forums has had an old model in his office & he said
>> it's easily over 30 years old!
>> http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/65839
>> Craig.
>
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 13:50:56
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
I bought a KA Proline some months ago following a long, trying tale of
woe with a Rocky. It WILL grind fine enough though you may have to
fiddle with a burrs a bit to get it to do so. However, it will not
grind evenly...or at least I cannot make it do so. So...after an
initial honeymoon period, I put it on the other side of the bar where
it serves the Technivorm. Got myself a spanking new Rocky and thus far
it has done a very fine job.
Will
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 07:10:13
From: nimbus
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Colin B. wrote:
> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > This one - Model A-9:
> >
> > http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>
> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well, they
> suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few months.
> I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid in the last
> few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't want to make
> good products anymore.
>
> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
might have to buy another one.
-nimbus
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 14:19:26
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
I've burned out 5 KA blenders making vichysoisses. They replaced one
for free.I'll never buy one again. That doesn't mean I'll be putting
potatos and leeks in my Mazzerc or Cimbali however.....al
On 27 Jun 2006 07:10:13 -0700, "nimbus" <couzin@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>Colin B. wrote:
>> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > This one - Model A-9:
>> >
>> > http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>
>> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well, they
>> suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few months.
>> I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid in the last
>> few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't want to make
>> good products anymore.
>>
>> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
>
>Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
>commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
>garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
>years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
>is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
>appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
>don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
>might have to buy another one.
>
>-nimbus
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 17:54:10
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
nimbus wrote:
>
> Colin B. wrote:
>> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > This one - Model A-9:
>> >
>> >
http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>
>> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well,
>> they suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few
>> months. I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid
>> in the last few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't
>> want to make good products anymore.
>>
>> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
>
> Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
> commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
> garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
> years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
> is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
> appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
> don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
> might have to buy another one.
Actually that's fairly commonplace these days. I have a Kenmore that is
stainless inside.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
|
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 18:41:06
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
There are only a handful of manufacturers that actually make kitchen
appliances , far fewer than the # of nameplates (and there are fewer still
now that Whirlpool has purchased Maytag (which in turn owned Amana,
Jenn-Air, Magic Chef and Admiral among others) . Kitchenaid is made by
Whirlpool and so are Kenmore dishwashers last time I checked (Whirlpool owns
the KA name and Kenmore doesn't make anything - Sears has all its appliances
made for it by various manufacturers including Whirlpool). So chances are
you and he have basically the same machine. The appliance business is an
amazing business in that the same basic product is sold at vastly different
prices just by adding a few "upgraded features". The difference in cost
between the "top of the line" KA and the bottom Roper must be a few tens of
$ for some fancy trim or a keypad but the difference in retail price is
hundreds and most consumers have no idea that all the appliances are coming
off the same assembly line. It's even worse than automobiles in that regard.
Plastic dishwashers discolor inside after a while but so what? My
dishwasher (Maytag) has a plastic interior that is guaranteed for 99 years
or something ridiculous like that, their point being that it will never
break, at least not until long after the motor has burned out or the pump
starts to leak. .
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > wrote in message
news:e7s9pl02tq2@news2.newsguy.com...
> nimbus wrote:
>
>>
>> Colin B. wrote:
>>> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > This one - Model A-9:
>>> >
>>> >
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>>
>>> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well,
>>> they suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few
>>> months. I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with
>>> Kitchenaid
>>> in the last few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they
>>> don't
>>> want to make good products anymore.
>>>
>>> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
>>
>> Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
>> commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
>> garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
>> years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
>> is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
>> appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
>> don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
>> might have to buy another one.
>
> Actually that's fairly commonplace these days. I have a Kenmore that is
> stainless inside.
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2006 10:14:19
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Jack Denver wrote:
> There are only a handful of manufacturers that actually make kitchen
> appliances , far fewer than the # of nameplates (and there are fewer still
> now that Whirlpool has purchased Maytag (which in turn owned Amana,
> Jenn-Air, Magic Chef and Admiral among others) . Kitchenaid is made by
> Whirlpool and so are Kenmore dishwashers last time I checked (Whirlpool
> owns the KA name and Kenmore doesn't make anything - Sears has all its
> appliances made for it by various manufacturers including Whirlpool).
Some of the high-end Kenmores are or at one time were made by Bosch.
> So
> chances are
> you and he have basically the same machine. The appliance business is an
> amazing business in that the same basic product is sold at vastly
> different
> prices just by adding a few "upgraded features". The difference in cost
> between the "top of the line" KA and the bottom Roper must be a few tens
> of $ for some fancy trim or a keypad but the difference in retail price is
> hundreds and most consumers have no idea that all the appliances are
> coming off the same assembly line. It's even worse than automobiles in
> that regard.
>
> Plastic dishwashers discolor inside after a while but so what? My
> dishwasher (Maytag) has a plastic interior that is guaranteed for 99 years
> or something ridiculous like that, their point being that it will never
> break, at least not until long after the motor has burned out or the pump
> starts to leak. .
>
>
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:e7s9pl02tq2@news2.newsguy.com...
>> nimbus wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Colin B. wrote:
>>>> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > This one - Model A-9:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>
http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>>>
>>>> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well,
>>>> they suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a
>>>> few months. I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with
>>>> Kitchenaid
>>>> in the last few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they
>>>> don't
>>>> want to make good products anymore.
>>>>
>>>> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
>>>
>>> Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
>>> commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
>>> garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
>>> years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
>>> is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
>>> appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
>>> don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
>>> might have to buy another one.
>>
>> Actually that's fairly commonplace these days. I have a Kenmore that is
>> stainless inside.
>>
>> --
>> --John
>> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2006 14:53:57
From: wff_ng_7
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
> The appliance business is an amazing business in that the same basic
> product is sold at vastly different prices just by adding a few "upgraded
> features". The difference in cost between the "top of the line" KA and
> the bottom Roper must be a few tens of $ for some fancy trim or a keypad
> but the difference in retail price is hundreds and most consumers have no
> idea that all the appliances are coming off the same assembly line. It's
> even worse than automobiles in that regard.
That's basically true about all dishwashers from the same manufacturer being
basically the same. But there are major differences, particularly with the
low end price leader models. I recently replaced a 32 year old GE and wanted
to get a real cheapie for the interrim until I remodel my kitchen. I found
the bottom end to be pretty primitive and definitely a different design in
the GE (GE, Hotpoint, etc.) models. I think this applies to the other
manufacturers too from what I saw. Take one step up though, and most of them
above that are very similar.
I ended up seeing a nice Admiral at Home Depot, and then saw that it was
basically the same as the Magtag models. The changes were of course the
name, but also things like option buttons and lights on the control panel,
and the color and presence or lack of retainer covers on various racks that
keep small items from bouncing around. The Maytags had retainer covers on
everything, and they were a nice blue to contrast with the gray rack. On the
Admiral, the retainer covers it did have were the same gray as the racks.
The option and light differences were probably meaningless in the real
world. The basic wash system (the pumps, spray arms, rack layout, etc.) was
identical, so one would expect essentially identical performance (which is
what Consumers Reports basically says).
The Admiral was a clearance model and they only had it in black or white. My
kitchen appliances are almond. I decided to check out a local appliance
chain, and saw an Amana that was essentially the same as the Admiral in all
regards, and they had it in bisque (almond by another name). Same price. I
got it there.
After installing the dishwasher, I noticed the user's manual has no
reference whatsoever to the Amana name in it. No pictures of the dishwasher
exterior at all. No pictures of the control panel (which would have the
brand name on it). The manual is very generic and covers probably all the
related dishwashers made by Maytag sold under a variety of brand names. The
only references to a brand name in this generic manual is a copyright notice
on front that says "2005 Maytag Appliance Sales Co.", and on the warranty
and service page a contact name of "Maytag Services, LLC".
I believe that some of this brand name thing may be a game. I get the
feeling that Admiral dishwashers are a Home Depot only thing, so Maytag
could have a price leader model at that chain. And perhaps Amana is used at
independent appliance stores. I know that the GE water heaters at Home Depot
don't exist anywhere else in the real world. They aren't made by GE. GE
licensed the name for use only on water heaters for Home Depot. I'm not sure
who the actual manufacturer is. Several years ago I bought a Maytag water
heater at Lowes. Only thing is Maytag doesn't make water heaters. They
licensed the name to State Water Heater (who was later acquired by American
Water Heater).
So much of the the use of brand names these days is to create a fantasy that
plays on the loyalties people have. These loyalties are probably misplaced.
--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 12:42:25
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
"Line extension" is a big thing nowadays - Brand owners realize that their
name has "equity" due to name recognition that can be extended to products
that they don't even make - gas grills, water heaters, etc. , that they can
cash in thru licensing. This is money for nothing, basically - you get x%
of sales just for allowing your name to be used, and must be tempting to
take. To make the offers doubly hard to refuse these offers come from Home
Depot and Lowes, who are also major customers of the appliance makers and
are probably tied in with overall deals to sell the appliances that they do
make. They need to be careful not to associate their name with bad products
that will destroy that equity though.
The other thing that drives "high end" appliance sales (auto sales, etc.)
is a desire by "upscale" consumers to differentiate themselves from the
masses. At one time, just owning say a dishwasher would be enough, since
the "masses" didn't own any at all. But now that everyone can afford a
dishwasher, how do you signal to your friends that you are "special" and in
a different bracket than the unwashed? It's an endless game of catchup
because very often the "signals" tend to migrate down the line (e.g.
stainless steel exteriors). When that happens, you have to find some other
indicator of "high class" - drawer dishwashers, concealed controls,
whatever - as long as it's different from what the middle class have in
their homes. This psychological need is what allows the manufacturers to
charge big $ for trivial differences like the color of the lids on the
retainer covers.
"wff_ng_7" <nosuchuser@invalid.gov > wrote in message
news:9Kwog.7302$Yk.5601@trnddc06...
>
> I believe that some of this brand name thing may be a game. I get the
> feeling that Admiral dishwashers are a Home Depot only thing, so Maytag
> could have a price leader model at that chain. And perhaps Amana is used
> at independent appliance stores. I know that the GE water heaters at Home
> Depot don't exist anywhere else in the real world. They aren't made by GE.
> GE licensed the name for use only on water heaters for Home Depot. I'm not
> sure who the actual manufacturer is. Several years ago I bought a Maytag
> water heater at Lowes. Only thing is Maytag doesn't make water heaters.
> They licensed the name to State Water Heater (who was later acquired by
> American Water Heater).
>
> So much of the the use of brand names these days is to create a fantasy
> that plays on the loyalties people have. These loyalties are probably
> misplaced.
>
> --
> ( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )
>
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 18:56:10
From: wff_ng_7
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
> They need to be careful not to associate their name with bad products that
> will destroy that equity though.
Not exactly the same thing, but I think Jaguar essentially did that by
selling what is essentially a tarted up Ford Mondeo as their X Type.
Cadillac fell into that trap 20 years ago selling a tarted up Chevy Cavalier
as a Cimarron. It takes a long, long time for the public to forget those
faux pas.
> The other thing that drives "high end" appliance sales (auto sales, etc.)
> is a desire by "upscale" consumers to differentiate themselves from the
> masses.
...
> It's an endless game of catchup because very often the "signals" tend to
> migrate down the line (e.g. stainless steel exteriors).
Just as there was plastic "wood" on the dashboards of American cars
emulating the real wood in English cars in years gone by, General Electric
is now selling appliances in faux stainless (CleanSteel) to bring the look
of stainless down to the lower price ranges.
Regarding status symbols migrating downward, one that was interesting to
follow was cell phones. I guess the advent of prepaid minutes (not needing
good credit) brought them down to the poorest in America. My brother used to
joke about how "even the homeless have cell phones now". It was just a joke,
but then I saw something that wasn't too far off. I was walking down the
street downtown and saw a panhandler in a wheel chair rattling his cup
asking for money. Several minutes later I came back the other way... he was
still rattling his cup... then some beeps and out comes his cell phone so he
can take a call! I guess all the status value of a cell phone evaporated in
that instant.
--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 06:55:05
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
In article <e7s9pl02tq2@news2.newsguy.com >,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> nimbus wrote:
>
> >
> > Colin B. wrote:
> >> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > This one - Model A-9:
> >> >
> >> >
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
> >>
> >> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well,
> >> they suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few
> >> months. I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid
> >> in the last few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't
> >> want to make good products anymore.
> >>
> >> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
> >
> > Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
> > commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
> > garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
> > years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
> > is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
> > appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
> > don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
> > might have to buy another one.
>
> Actually that's fairly commonplace these days. I have a Kenmore that is
> stainless inside.
I've got a Kenmore dishwasher with a stainless interior. The model
that I have was made by Kitchenaid. And you can't beat their mixers!
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 10:08:38
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Mike Hartigan wrote:
> In article <e7s9pl02tq2@news2.newsguy.com>,
> jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> nimbus wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Colin B. wrote:
>> >> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > This one - Model A-9:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>>
http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>> >>
>> >> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well,
>> >> they suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a
>> >> few months. I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with
>> >> Kitchenaid in the last few years. Seems like now that they have the
>> >> name, they don't want to make good products anymore.
>> >>
>> >> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
>> >
>> > Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
>> > commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
>> > garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
>> > years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
>> > is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
>> > appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
>> > don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
>> > might have to buy another one.
>>
>> Actually that's fairly commonplace these days. I have a Kenmore that is
>> stainless inside.
>
> I've got a Kenmore dishwasher with a stainless interior. The model
> that I have was made by Kitchenaid.
I'm surprised--Kenmore appliances are usually Whirlpool, but mine is a
Bosch.
> And you can't beat their mixers!
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 15:25:57
From: Colin B.
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
nimbus <couzin@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> Colin B. wrote:
>> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > This one - Model A-9:
>> >
>> > http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>>
>> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well, they
>> suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few months.
>> I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid in the last
>> few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't want to make
>> good products anymore.
>>
>> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
>
> Disagree. I haven't tried their grinders (I have a big old Tomlinson
> commercial grinder, plus a Mazzer super jolly, plus a backup piece of
> garbage blade thing (that has starbucks printed on it..it's about 15
> years old)). BUT, kitchenaid dishwashers ROCK! Stainless inside, which
> is nice (I'd rather have it inside than out - function versus
> appearance - but they come with stainless exterior also). But now I
> don't think I can go back to "normal" dishwashers. Moving soon, so
> might have to buy another one.
Hmm. Dishwashers are something I wasn't thinking of, and I may have to agree
with you on that one.
We bought a Kenmore-branded Kitchenaid dishwasher last year, and love it.
My parents, on the other hand, got one about 12 years ago and have been
wanting to get rid of it for 11 years--it's noisy, slow, randomly resets
the cycle if interrupted, and has _never_ cleaned well.
Now I spent about a hundred bucks on a medium (2L) saucepan. It's a fine
pot, except that the anodized grey finish suddenly turned to chalk one week!
I don't know what happened to it, but it's downright nasty now. This just
shouldn't happen--the pot was only washed by hand, never left to soak, etc.
etc. With the amount of care I take with my kitchen stuff, it should all
last forever--and most of it does.
We'll see how the dishwasher stands up over time--the fact that it's got
Sears' name behind the warranty actually gives me more comfort than if it
was just Kitchenaid.
Colin
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 16:55:14
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
In article <44a29f7e@news.nucleus.com >,
cbigam@somewhereelse.nucleus.com says...
> [...]the fact that it's got
> Sears' name behind the warranty actually gives me more comfort than if it
> was just Kitchenaid.
By 'Sears', you are actually referring to one of K-Mart's brands ;-)
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 03:14:01
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Mike Hartigan <mike@hartigan.dot.com > wrote:
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 05:14:02
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Actually, Colin, the consensus about the Proline range of Kitchenaid
appliances is that they are built like tanks and will last forever;
they just aren't always real well designed. The Proline grinder, for
example, could be reworked by a manufacturer using materials of the
same quality but more precision in manufacturing and the result might
be a nice little grinder.
Anyway, the vast majority of reviews that I have read suggest not that
KA Proline appliances will "die after a few months" but that they will
torment you by living on and on and on and....
Will
Colin B. wrote:
> jkdrummer@yahoo.com <jkdrummer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > This one - Model A-9:
> >
> > http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>
> I've had a few experiences with recent Kitchenaid products, and well, they
> suck. Worst of all, they were clearly _designed_ to die after a few months.
> I've seen repeated stories about similar problems with Kitchenaid in the last
> few years. Seems like now that they have the name, they don't want to make
> good products anymore.
>
> I'd avoid anything that has the Kitchenaid name on it.
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 18:23:42
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
In <e7s9pl02tq2@news2.newsguy.com >, on 06/27/06 at 05:54 PM,
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > said:
"
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 02:38:40
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 03:22:22
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 02:38:40 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 04:36:37
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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|
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 10:38:46
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Some people report liking dual drawer machines - rather than one big
chamber with 2 racks you have something that looks like a 2 drawer filing
cabinet. You can do smaller loads and you can alternate - store the clean
dishes in the top drawer until you use them, put them in the bottom drawer
after use until the top drawer is empty. Then you wash the bottom drawer and
fill the top with dirty, etc. If you have a crowd over you can run both
drawers at once with a capacity equal to a traditional machine.
One difference is noise - there are two basic approaches to dealing with
food particles (BTW you should NOT rinse dishes before putting them in the
dishwasher - the machine is the dishwasher, not you). One, found on most
American machines, is to incorporate a food grinder into the pump. Whatever
food ends up in the bottom of the dishwasher gets ground up and pumped out.
The disadvantage is that it is noisy. The Euro approach is to have a filter
to catch the particles which you need to empty periodically, but their
machines tend to be much quiter because there is no grinder in the pump.
CR puts Bosch and Siemens at the top of its ratings. IIRC, Bosch opened a US
factory and their machines are cost competitive.
Whirlpool/Kenmore/Kitchenaid also do almost equally well - I don't think
you'd go wrong with either brand.
The Miele costs double or triple what you'd pay for another machine - hard
to say what makes it worth it in the case of dishwashers. I suspect a lot of
the cost is due to a low volume/high margin distribution model rather than
reflecting actual hard cost in the machine. Fisher & Paykel have a notably
worse repair record than most brands according to CR.
"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:44a203dd.221893576@localhost...
>
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 01:52:25
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
Today's KitchenAids are not the KitchenAids of old, which were made by
Hobart. Todays are just Whirlpools in disguise. Unlikely that they will be
running 30 years from now. That being said, I like my modern Maytag a lot
better than the Hobart KA that it replaced.
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:d7t3a25b40aid8fst1r9rrcehfq3egfp3l@4ax.com...
>>
> Our KitchenAid is still fine after 30 years. We're only replacing it
> (with another KitchenAid) because it will look out of place after the
> remodel (and the new dishwashers are much quieter). I swore off German
> appliances and plumbing fixtures after my last house. Every little
> replacement part was "non-standard" and ridiculously expensive. I got
> tired of my plumber implying I was an idiot for owning them.
>
> Marshall
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 15:32:24
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
The problem with asking people if they like their grinders is a lot of
people have nothing to compare with and/or don't know any better. Some
people like their whirly blade grinders. OTOH, even if someone didn't like
their Mazzer, it would still be a great grinder. One look at the burrs on a
KA tells you all you need to know - you can't cut food with a dull knife,
you can't grind coffee (properly) with dull burrs. It's a shame b/c with
better burrs it would be a decent grinder - it has (at least the 1st reissue
had) old fashioned all metal solid construction that nowadays is mostly
reserved for commercial equipment. Most modern consumer grinders are made
with way too much plastic, not just in the case and bins (where it's really
OK) but in the moving parts as well, where it isn't.
<jkdrummer@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151337346.031922.101290@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> This one - Model A-9:
>
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
>
> Thanks
> JaKe
> Seattle
>
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 05:21:00
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid or Rocky????
|
Brent and others wrote:
> >> What is your reasoning, for removing the cone over the inlet ?
> >
> > Sometimes a bean dam will form in the orifices to the cone, blocking the
> > feed until the beans are given a stir. Only seems to happen with really
> > oily beans.
> >
> > --
> > --John
>
> I have seen it hapen on several different grinders, but not with oily
> beans - I can see that oily beans may have a higher chance of sticking...
I've had it happen a few times with both oily and dry beans so it may
be just the luck of the draw. Thus far, I've been content to give the
grinder a little bump on the side to unstick them rather than remove
the "I'm too stupid to realize that the moving burrs would grind my
fingers, too" cone.
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 02:51:58
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
In <44a203dd.221893576@localhost >, on 06/28/06 at 04:36 AM,
ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) said:
"
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 15:37:22
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 02:51:58 -0600, not-my-name@die-spam-die wrote:
>
>The top tray for flatware and small items in Miele dishwashers is
>something you cannot live without once you have used it.
And it has been adopted by KitchenAid and other U.S. brands.
Marshall
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 22:23:02
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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not-my-name:
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 19:49:37
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
I'm not going to get a fight with you over statistics, because I'll surely
lose. That being said, even a non-randomized sample MAY be representative of
the true statistic (you just can't tell how large the error may be) Usually
non-probability samples go wrong because there is some sample bias that is
overlooked (you survey only college professors and conclude that John Kerry
would be a winning presidential candidate or you ask the listeners of the
Rush Limbaugh show to call in if they support the president and decide based
on the response that 95% of all Americans are pro-Bush). I can't think of
any reason why Fisher & Paykel owners would self report problems at twice
the rate of say Bosch owners. Maybe F&P owners are the kind of people who
complain a lot and this is the true explanation, but I tend to doubt it. If
you look at their automobile frequency of repair reports, they correlate
well with other more statistically valid sources (e.g. Toyotas & Hondas come
out well). Certainly I wouldn't give a lot of weight to some slight
difference in CR reported repair rate, but when one brand is clearly an
outlier (as F&P is) you have to wonder whether they are really capturing
something real.
"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:44a2fd64.21563236@localhost...
> not-my-name:
>
> BTW, CR reliability/frequency of repair ratings are the most egregious
> form
> of non-probability sampling, which is statistically less informative than
> flipping a coin.
>
> - David R.
> --
> Less information than you ever thought possible:
> http://www.demitasse.net
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 03:12:28
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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|
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 10:26:16
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:44a344e3.39866274@localhost...
snip >
> \begin{speculation}
> What one often sees in CR is that the cheapest brands get proportionally
> few
> complaints, possibly because (a) people had no expectations, and (b) they
> are treated as consumables - a Roper breaks down, you toss it instead of
> repair it. The most expensive brands don't even get listed, because the
> CR
> readership either never bought them or CR recommended against them (CR's
> recommendations give a huge weighting to cost). The upper-mid-priced
> exotica (like FP) tend to do disproportionately badly in the CR
> tabulations,
> possibly because expectations are high (otherwise why buy the oddball
> machine), or because it has odd features or instructions and the owners
> don't know how to use it right, or because there is no buffer to hasty
> generalization. (For example, someone who buys a crappy Maytag might
> hesitate to report it because his last Maytag was great, so he figures his
> machine was just a lemon, why tarnish the whole company; the FP owner OTOH
> infers from his machine's behavior that all FPs are crap.)
> \end{speculation}
>
That's why I compared FP to Bosch, not to Frigidaire or Hotpoint or some
other low end brand. I thought of the expectations argument as well. But
one would think that the expectations of an FP owner would be similar to
those of other foreign brands.
> BTW, I do not own any F&P appliances, but would not hesitate to do so - by
> all accounts they are very well engineered, and have a good track record
> in
> other countries...which suggests that if there really is a problem with
> the
> machines in the US, it is not the fault of the machines.
Sometimes conditions in the US are different - in the case of cars, US fuels
are different (more sulfur) and some engines that do very well in Europe
have problems in service here. We see in espresso machines that some end up
being underpowered because they are limited to 120V where the Euro versions
have 240. Also American life styles can be different - maybe we use the
appliance more often or we keep it (clothes washer) in a damp basement
instead of in our kitchen, or we use a lot more chlorine bleach. Or it can
be a problem with following instructions - as I mentioned before Euro
dishwashers have a food filter instead of a food grinder. If you never empty
the filter (because you didn't read the manual and AFAYK from all your years
with American dishwashers you don't have to do this step) the machine might
perform poorly. So the same product that performs very well abroad is a
lemon here.
>
> - David R.
> --
> Less information than you ever thought possible:
> http://www.demitasse.net
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 19:53:41
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 23:42:26
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
D. Ross wrote:
>
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 20:23:07
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
|
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > wrote:
>worst case was when I bought a Toyota which turned out to have only one
>required maintenance item--every 10,000 miles you changed the engine. The
>first time I figured it was a fluke, the second I donated the corpse to the
>high school shop and got an ironblock Chevy.
you got the wrong toyo. ;)
--barry "310,000 miles; original engine & tranny"
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 16:47:07
From: David Williams
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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What happened to changing the oil?
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >worst case was when I bought a Toyota which turned out to have only one
> >required maintenance item--every 10,000 miles you changed the engine. The
> >first time I figured it was a fluke, the second I donated the corpse to the
> >high school shop and got an ironblock Chevy.
>
> you got the wrong toyo. ;)
>
>
> --barry "310,000 miles; original engine & tranny"
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 18:18:12
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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David Williams wrote:
> What happened to changing the oil?
According to the book you changed the oil every 10,000.
Not that changing it made any difference.
> Barry Jarrett wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >worst case was when I bought a Toyota which turned out to have only one
>> >required maintenance item--every 10,000 miles you changed the engine.
>> >The first time I figured it was a fluke, the second I donated the
>> >corpse to the high school shop and got an ironblock Chevy.
>>
>> you got the wrong toyo. ;)
>>
>>
>> --barry "310,000 miles; original engine & tranny"
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 10:27:21
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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In <H4qdnVNBtf3qCT_ZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com >, on 06/28/06 at
10:38 AM,
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > said:
"
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 17:04:49
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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<not-my-name@die-spam-die > wrote in message
news:44a2bbf9$3$rguvpny$mr2ice@news.speakeasy.net...
> In <H4qdnVNBtf3qCT_ZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com>, on 06/28/06 at
> 10:38 AM,
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> said:
>
> "
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 09:54:41
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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In <0uKdnZIULLBycz_ZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@comcast.com >, on 06/28/06 at
05:04 PM,
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > said:
"
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 14:18:53
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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I don't think the thickness of the sheet metal has anything to do with the
useful life of a stainless dishwasher. AFAIK, perforation of the stainless
is not a known failure mode. Even the plastic ones never fail that way
which is why, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, the manufacturers give
ultra long warranties on the interiors (knowing that they will never have to
pay off on them). The real failure modes are failure of moving parts.
Weight of the case has very little to do with durability.
In general, I'd say that you're right and that a heavier appliance is
usually better quality (but quality and useful life are not always the same
thing) - often the heaviest item is usually the highest quality item,
because in cheap goods the manufacturers try to cut out as much raw
materials as possible and also tend to substitute lighter weight plastics
for heavier metals. But, there are exceptions - I once had a front loading
washing machine that was not of particularly good quality that weighed a
ton - it turned out that one of the ways they used to control vibration was
to have concrete block counterweights inside the machine.
<not-my-name@die-spam-die > wrote in message
news:44a405d1$4$rguvpny$mr2ice@news.speakeasy.net...
> In <0uKdnZIULLBycz_ZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, on 06/28/06 at
> 05:04 PM,
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> said:
>
>
> "
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 19:59:40
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 20:10:46
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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The real noise damping and heat insulation is usually provided by some kind
of insulating blanket wrapped around the sides and top of the machine.
Metal is such a great conductor of heat and noise that the steel would have
to be as thick as a bank vault before it provided any of those properties.
One of the differences between "cheap" machines and "better" ones from the
same manufacturer is the thickness of this blanket (which is often just
ordinary foil face fiberglass insulation). Again the amount that they save
by using a thinner blanket must be pennies but this way they can show that
the more expensive machine is quiter.
"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:44a42fc6.99997468@localhost...
>
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 07:50:59
From: Carmen
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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jkdrummer@yahoo.com wrote:
> This one - Model A-9:
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Coffee+Mills+&+Grinders&cat=227&prod=414
I've got the KitchenAid Proline grinder, and I adore it. It's the one
I use for coffee - which I drink far more often than espresso. I have
a different grinder (a Saeco) for that. Due to the Proline's design, I
can place the appropriate amount of beans in the hopper and place the
basket directly underneath the shoot:
http://www.discountcooking.com/show_product/113006
The basket in question is the basket from a commercial Bloomfield, so
it's quite large. Add to that the solid build and it's ready to be
pressed into service for home defense should the need arise. Anyone
who gets conked with that thing is going down and *staying* down. <G >
On the serious side, it does "clog" on occasion, not sure why. The
beans stop feeding down through. Rocking the machine side to side
will usually get it feeding again, but every once in a while I've had
to turn it off and manipulate the beans.
Carmen
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 18:05:43
From: Bill (Adopt)
Subject: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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In article <1151592659.736713.155560@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
Carmen <carmensrt@gmail.com > wrote:
[..]
> The basket in question is the basket from a commercial Bloomfield, so
> it's quite large. Add to that the solid build and it's ready to be
> pressed into service for home defense should the need arise. Anyone
> who gets conked with that thing is going down and *staying* down. <G>
> On the serious side, it does "clog" on occasion, not sure why. The
> beans stop feeding down through. Rocking the machine side to side
> will usually get it feeding again, but every once in a while I've had
> to turn it off and manipulate the beans.
..well ..just think of what you're expecting your KitchenAid to
do with the chunks of intruder assailant it felled, moments before
the bean became stuck in it's inlet shute... ;))
Bill ZFC
PS ..we get Police Files on TV over here, as well.. O:))
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 04:46:45
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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Jack Denver wrote:
> Today's KitchenAids are not the KitchenAids of old, which were made by
> Hobart. Todays are just Whirlpools in disguise. Unlikely that they will be
> running 30 years from now. That being said, I like my modern Maytag a lot
> better than the Hobart KA that it replaced.
I may be mistaken, Jack, but I believe it was only the mixers that were
made by Hobart, not any of the other KA appliances. On that note, I
have owned KA mixers for, gosh, 40 years. They work hard every week,
making bread and other chores. With my old ones, I could count on a
trip to the Hobart shop every couple of years to have the planetary
gears replaced. They were made of pressed fiber and intended to be
sacrificial. My most recent KA has worked just as hard as the old ones
for the past 6 years with nary a replacement needed. On that basis,
I'm hard pressed to agree that the new mixers are less well made.
One other thing. They may be manufactured by Whirlpool, I have no
idea. But a friend recently needed to replace a switch in his tip-up
mixer (KA mixer users will know the model I mean) and was told by KA to
obtain it from the local Hobart shop. So....
Will
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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Nope, the dishwashers too. Hobart once upon a time owned the whole KA line
and they sold the whole thing to Whirlpool. I had one of the "old" KA
dishwashers and in the owner's manual it referred to Hobart as the
manufacturer.
I still have a Hobart KA mixer which has lasted 20 years (of moderate use)
and so can't comment on the quality of the new ones. But I've heard from
others that the modern ones have nylon gears instead of metal and are prone
to stripping the gears for that reason. They do now make a 600 watt
"Professional" that has metal gears - this is probably BETTER than the old
Hobarts which were only 325 watts or somesuch, but it has a pricetag to
match.
AFAIK the only sacrificial part on the old Hobarts was some kind of shear
plate which as you say was intended to break instead of burning the motor
out but the gear set itself was metal and not prone to stripping. But you
might know better than I. In general "the good old days" were not always
that good - material science has improved, electronics can do a lot and even
with cost cutting a lot of modern devices last a lot longer than they used
to and perform better.
The new ones are most certainly made by Whirlpool and not Hobart. However,
aside from the switch to plastic gears, it may be that some of the parts
still interchange with the old Hobarts. I dunno. Hobart continues to make
commercial mixers (from countertop to enormous) that are much more $$$ but
will stand up to commercial (near continuous) use.
<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151581605.507683.92370@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jack Denver wrote:
>> Today's KitchenAids are not the KitchenAids of old, which were made by
>> Hobart. Todays are just Whirlpools in disguise. Unlikely that they will
>> be
>> running 30 years from now. That being said, I like my modern Maytag a lot
>> better than the Hobart KA that it replaced.
>
> I may be mistaken, Jack, but I believe it was only the mixers that were
> made by Hobart, not any of the other KA appliances. On that note, I
> have owned KA mixers for, gosh, 40 years. They work hard every week,
> making bread and other chores. With my old ones, I could count on a
> trip to the Hobart shop every couple of years to have the planetary
> gears replaced. They were made of pressed fiber and intended to be
> sacrificial. My most recent KA has worked just as hard as the old ones
> for the past 6 years with nary a replacement needed. On that basis,
> I'm hard pressed to agree that the new mixers are less well made.
>
> One other thing. They may be manufactured by Whirlpool, I have no
> idea. But a friend recently needed to replace a switch in his tip-up
> mixer (KA mixer users will know the model I mean) and was told by KA to
> obtain it from the local Hobart shop. So....
>
> Will
>
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 05:43:52
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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Thanks for the info re Hobart. I stand corrected.
Actually, a couple of the gears in the planetary gear train of the old
mixers--at least the rack-and-pinion mixers--were brown pressed fiber
and were intended to strip if the motor bogged down. The Hobart tech
always returned the replaced ones in a baggie when I picked up the
machine after repairs. The remaining gears were metal, I believe.
New ones have some Delrin gears (just made a quick call to the service
center) even in the 600w model and, again, the remaining gears are
metal.
Incidentally, in the words of the Hobart tech, "Don't spend the extra
money on the new big one. It was designed for people who need to brag
that their **** is bigger than yours."
Will
Jack Denver wrote:
> Nope, the dishwashers too. Hobart once upon a time owned the whole KA line
> and they sold the whole thing to Whirlpool. I had one of the "old" KA
> dishwashers and in the owner's manual it referred to Hobart as the
> manufacturer.
>
> I still have a Hobart KA mixer which has lasted 20 years (of moderate use)
> and so can't comment on the quality of the new ones. But I've heard from
> others that the modern ones have nylon gears instead of metal and are prone
> to stripping the gears for that reason. They do now make a 600 watt
> "Professional" that has metal gears - this is probably BETTER than the old
> Hobarts which were only 325 watts or somesuch, but it has a pricetag to
> match.
>
> AFAIK the only sacrificial part on the old Hobarts was some kind of shear
> plate which as you say was intended to break instead of burning the motor
> out but the gear set itself was metal and not prone to stripping. But you
> might know better than I. In general "the good old days" were not always
> that good - material science has improved, electronics can do a lot and even
> with cost cutting a lot of modern devices last a lot longer than they used
> to and perform better.
>
> The new ones are most certainly made by Whirlpool and not Hobart. However,
> aside from the switch to plastic gears, it may be that some of the parts
> still interchange with the old Hobarts. I dunno. Hobart continues to make
> commercial mixers (from countertop to enormous) that are much more $$$ but
> will stand up to commercial (near continuous) use.
>
>
>
> <Omniryx@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151581605.507683.92370@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Jack Denver wrote:
> >> Today's KitchenAids are not the KitchenAids of old, which were made by
> >> Hobart. Todays are just Whirlpools in disguise. Unlikely that they will
> >> be
> >> running 30 years from now. That being said, I like my modern Maytag a lot
> >> better than the Hobart KA that it replaced.
> >
> > I may be mistaken, Jack, but I believe it was only the mixers that were
> > made by Hobart, not any of the other KA appliances. On that note, I
> > have owned KA mixers for, gosh, 40 years. They work hard every week,
> > making bread and other chores. With my old ones, I could count on a
> > trip to the Hobart shop every couple of years to have the planetary
> > gears replaced. They were made of pressed fiber and intended to be
> > sacrificial. My most recent KA has worked just as hard as the old ones
> > for the past 6 years with nary a replacement needed. On that basis,
> > I'm hard pressed to agree that the new mixers are less well made.
> >
> > One other thing. They may be manufactured by Whirlpool, I have no
> > idea. But a friend recently needed to replace a switch in his tip-up
> > mixer (KA mixer users will know the model I mean) and was told by KA to
> > obtain it from the local Hobart shop. So....
> >
> > Will
> >
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 11:24:37
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Anyone like their Kitchen Aid Grinder?
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I don't know personally what the true status of the gears (metal. vs.
plastic) is in the new models but the online buzz seems to be quite clear
that the "pro" has metal and the rest have plastic. Google "kitchenaid
metal gears" . Of course the CW is sometimes flat wrong.
As for not needing the extra power, I think this has a lot to do with
whether you use the machine for a lot of dough kneading. For cake batter the
small ones are quite enough, but if you intend to do back to back batches of
heavy dough you can overheat the motor. Most people don't use their machines
that way (and if they do, there are even better machines for kneading
dough). I think the average tutti-frutti colored one gets used as a counter
decoration, next to the unused Francis-Francis on the granite counter for
that photo shoot look and it wouldn't make a difference if there was no
motor at all. OTOH, I was recently in an outlet store and I noticed on the
"factory reconditioned" models the price difference between the "pro"
machines and the basic models was highly compressed - maybe $50 separated
the top of the line from the bottom, vs. hundreds of $ on the MSRP. So if my
20 year old machine ever dies (which it shows no signs of doing) I'd
probably go for one of the reconditioned "pro" machines. The ones with the
plastic gears do run quieter though, so you can't have everything.
<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151671432.035553.138930@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the info re Hobart. I stand corrected.
>
> Actually, a couple of the gears in the planetary gear train of the old
> mixers--at least the rack-and-pinion mixers--were brown pressed fiber
> and were intended to strip if the motor bogged down. The Hobart tech
> always returned the replaced ones in a baggie when I picked up the
> machine after repairs. The remaining gears were metal, I believe.
>
> New ones have some Delrin gears (just made a quick call to the service
> center) even in the 600w model and, again, the remaining gears are
> metal.
>
> Incidentally, in the words of the Hobart tech, "Don't spend the extra
> money on the new big one. It was designed for people who need to brag
> that their **** is bigger than yours."
>
> Will
>
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