| |
Main
Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:17:14
From:
Subject: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
Hi all,
I'm brand new to this site and to the coffee business.
My husband and I are in the beginning stages of opening a drive-thru
espresso/coffee shop.....I'M GOING TO HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF QUESTIONS.
Right now we are just trying to see how much money is going to be
involved in the start up process and I'm a bit confused......(okay,
highly confused) about what kind of machine we are going to need.
I'd like to have one that does 'everything' in one machine but I'm not
sure if that is the best way to go. We are going to be limited on space
so a 'do all' machine would be best but we can manage if we need
different machines for different parts of the business.
If I sound like I know very little, it's because I know almost
nothing.......
I'm sure some of you started out the same way (maybe!!!)
I've looked at several machines but the one that really caught my eye
was the Astra Super Mega II Automated Coffee & Espresso Service Center
But it is very expensive and in reality we won't need anything that
makes 120 cups per hour......my hands won't work that fast.
We aren't sure what the customer flow will be but we know it won't be
anything like that.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated and any links I can read to get
more information on any aspect of the business would be great as well.
We also would love to have information on:
Lay out
Business Lic. and health inspections
Start up supplies
Start up costs
A good school to learn how to make espresso
Just about every aspect of the business.......
HELP PLEASE!!!
Angel
|
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:04:05
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
Hi Angel, Good luck on your start up! You'll hear the usual, 'location,
location, location', mantra often enough, so I'll pass along my rules when
thinking about a new business (I've started four so far & am always on the
look out the next great idea).
#1 suggestion for any start-up? No matter how small you're starting out or
how much experience you have, work up an objective business plan. How else
will you be able to measure your progress or even tell if you're succeeding
or not? You don't need to hire an expensive consultant for this but you can
if you want. Me, I'd head down to my bank & ask the manager if he'd mind
giving me a hand. You'd be surprised how far these guys go to get more
business!
#2 suggestion for any start-up? Don't think mega-big when making your
plans; if you succeed you can always move up in class as needed. But, don't
think too small either. I'd work out how many customers I expect initially &
double that. This will get you into the ball park at least as far as machine
size & capacity go.
#3 suggestion for any start-up? Find a great sales & service department &
then decide on which machine to buy. The big-buck mega-whiz-bang super
automatic machine will be just a pile of junk & you'll soon be bankrupt if
it's out of service too often.
#4 suggestion for any start-up? Contingency planning. What will you do when
your machine fails in the middle of you busy time? Or your delivery of beans
is interrupted? There are a many things that can bring you to an abrupt stop
& if you haven't made plans in advance you'll be in trouble.
#5 suggestion for any start-up? NEVER go into business with your spouse.
It's a toss up which will fail first, but either the business fails & it's
the other persons fault or the marriage fails & there's no way to divide the
business. It's a lose/lose situation.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
<Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net > wrote in message
news:1155313034.270914.177840@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
> I'm brand new to this site and to the coffee business.
> My husband and I are in the beginning stages of opening a drive-thru
> espresso/coffee shop.....I'M GOING TO HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF QUESTIONS.
> Right now we are just trying to see how much money is going to be
> involved in the start up process and I'm a bit confused......(okay,
> highly confused) about what kind of machine we are going to need.
> I'd like to have one that does 'everything' in one machine but I'm not
> sure if that is the best way to go. We are going to be limited on space
> so a 'do all' machine would be best but we can manage if we need
> different machines for different parts of the business.
> If I sound like I know very little, it's because I know almost
> nothing.......
> I'm sure some of you started out the same way (maybe!!!)
> I've looked at several machines but the one that really caught my eye
> was the Astra Super Mega II Automated Coffee & Espresso Service Center
> But it is very expensive and in reality we won't need anything that
> makes 120 cups per hour......my hands won't work that fast.
> We aren't sure what the customer flow will be but we know it won't be
> anything like that.
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated and any links I can read to get
> more information on any aspect of the business would be great as well.
> We also would love to have information on:
> Lay out
> Business Lic. and health inspections
> Start up supplies
> Start up costs
> A good school to learn how to make espresso
> Just about every aspect of the business.......
> HELP PLEASE!!!
> Angel
>
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:46:50
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
On 11 Aug 2006 09:17:14 -0700, Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net wrote:
>I'm sure some of you started out the same way (maybe!!!)
>I've looked at several machines but the one that really caught my eye
>was the Astra Super Mega II Automated Coffee & Espresso Service Center
>But it is very expensive and in reality we won't need anything that
>makes 120 cups per hour.
That type of machine is called a "super-auto." You push a button, it
grinds the coffee and makes a cup of coffee; some models will also
make the milk froth automatically. Semi-autos and autos are regular
espresso machines with a separate grinder which you pack yourself,
load the portafilter and make the shot. The automatic variety turns
itself off, the semi auto does not.
If you don't hire people skilled in making espresso, or train them
yourself, you are better off with a super-auto thaty requires no
skills from the operator.
No superauto will make espresso that would pass muster with Italians
or other knowledgeable people; however, in large lattes, etc, the
difference is negligible.
The main criterion in choosing a comercial coffee maker is service.
This goes doubly for superautomatics, since they are not very amenable
to DIY tinkering, and since they require much more frequent tuneups
than other kinds of machines. Choose any brand where the service is
local, fast, and contract based: you are out of buisiness while that
funny red light you never noticed before is blinking.
|
| |
Date: 12 Aug 2006 01:19:42
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
Finding the keyboard operational
Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net entered:
> Hi all,
> HELP PLEASE!!!
> Angel
Take a deep breath Angel. It's going to be a wild ride.
You have a lot of things to get settled before you buy a coffee machine.
My wife and I openeed almost 18 months ago after about a year of planning.
Like you, neither of us had operated our own business before and being a
food business just complicated things by a factor of 10!
As someone else said, write a business plan first. Then re-write it because
assumptions you made at the beggining aren't going to hold up till the end.
Be prepared to re-write after every major decision or purchase.
Location - Go out and sit and watch the cars. Do they look like they want to
stop for coffee? How about when it is raining? Or blazing hot? How about
snow?
The building and health departments are not your enemy, they are your
friend. Go there to ask about permits, licenses and inspections. Around
here one town needed us to appear before the zoning board, another required
architects drawing,and a third nothing but inspections!
What are your basic supplies going to cost. What is a minimum order of 12 oz
cups and lids. Where are you going to keep them till you need them.
I see that you are planning to refurb an old trailer. Can you get the
plumbing and electric set up to be acceptable? (back to the health and
building Depts.) It took us 9 monthe to build out from nothing to opening
day.
What is goig to your price per cup? Are you going to be able to pay your
bills with lesss then 120 cuos per hour? What's your plan if the competion
opens down the street?
Have you looked at advertising costs? Even now we get people coming in for
the first time saying that they didn't know we were here until they saw the
coupon.
I'm not trying to scare you off but these are some points I wish I knew or
knew more about before we started.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:59:33
From:
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
Hey Robert,
I will check and see what they are calling the dependent srevices
office these days......who knows. They change everything so often.
Here we are mostly Drill Sargents, Officers and Civilians. Actually,
last I heard it was about 90% civilian. It's a training post mostly.
"ON POST" would be great and that too is something I will check into.
Thanks!!!
Hubby is retired, finally after 22 years.......then decides he's going
back across the pond to make the money he was complaining the
contractors were making over there while "he" was protecting them. Go
figure!!
Robert Harmon wrote:
> Sounds like a military dependent talking. ;)
>
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 18:16:33
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
On 11 Aug 2006 09:17:14 -0700, Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net wrote:
>Hi all,
>I'm brand new to this site and to the coffee business.
>My husband and I are in the beginning stages of opening a drive-thru
>espresso/coffee shop.....I'M GOING TO HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF QUESTIONS.
>Right now we are just trying to see how much money is going to be
>involved in the start up process and I'm a bit confused......(okay,
>highly confused) about what kind of machine we are going to need.
>I'd like to have one that does 'everything' in one machine but I'm not
>sure if that is the best way to go. We are going to be limited on space
>so a 'do all' machine would be best but we can manage if we need
>different machines for different parts of the business.
>If I sound like I know very little, it's because I know almost
>nothing.......
>I'm sure some of you started out the same way (maybe!!!)
>I've looked at several machines but the one that really caught my eye
>was the Astra Super Mega II Automated Coffee & Espresso Service Center
>But it is very expensive and in reality we won't need anything that
>makes 120 cups per hour......my hands won't work that fast.
>We aren't sure what the customer flow will be but we know it won't be
>anything like that.
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated and any links I can read to get
>more information on any aspect of the business would be great as well.
>We also would love to have information on:
>Lay out
>Business Lic. and health inspections
>Start up supplies
>Start up costs
>A good school to learn how to make espresso
>Just about every aspect of the business.......
>HELP PLEASE!!!
>Angel
Your best bet for online advice from fellow coffee retailers is the
SCAA.org member Forums. Provisional memberships are only $145 for the
first year (regular memberships are $195 after that). Membership will
also give you discounts on lots of useful publications and videos.
Especially if you have little business (or retail) experience, I would
strongly recommend using a professional consultant. They can be
expensive, but can help you avoid even more costly mistakes.
As for working with your spouse, there is a reason they call them "mom
& pop" businesses. It will certainly test your marriage, but a strong
marriage will survive and thrive. Intelligentsia and Coffee Klatch are
only two of the better known successful husband and wife teams.
Marshall
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:54:41
From: Tim Blue
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
You might consider going to a trade show. This was a big eye opener
for me, as well as a great place to make contacts. The next one I know
of is Coffee Fest in Seattle on ober 27-29, 2006. you can check out
the web site at www.coffeefest.com.
There are all sorts of free and pay seminars on everything from how to
make great espresso to how to open and run a successful coffee
business. Plus you can see and demo all the latest machines and
equipment there first hand.
Definitely something to check out if you have the time.
~Tim
Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net wrote:
> Okay, so basically what I got out of those two posts is that:
>
> #1 I know even less than I thought I did.........
>
> AND
>
> #2 I know WAY less than I thought I did............
>
> Thanks for the clarification on the maker types.......I just thought
> more expensive and more automatic would be better.
> I have NO experiance with coffee.......I don't even own a coffee pot as
> far as I know. Hubby might have one hidden somewhere but I don't know
> where......tells you how often we make coffee.
> I will have to either take a class (online hopefully) or actually go to
> WORK in an espresso shop (NONE AROUND HERE) to get some knowledge.
>
> Yeah, I've read and re-read that the first thing is LOCATION, LOCATION,
> LOCATION.
> We have our realtor looking as we speak but we plan to be right outside
> a busy military installation. On the proper side of the road for easy
> access of the early morning commute.
> There are a good 10,000+ vehicles that go onto post between 5am and
> 11am..........some go through twice (if they go home to shower after
> PT)
> We know it's a good location, just have to find a peice for sale.
>
> As for going into business with the spouse...(I laughed when I read
> your post).....BUT, he is the money of the operation.....;)
> He is also out of the country for the next 18+ months so it is MY WAY
> or NO WAY.
> He can like the way I do things or he can just deal with
> it.........either way it's my baby and he understands that and just
> supports me. He has opinions but that's about it, the real deal is up
> to me. I'm the one doing all the real work where the shop is concerned.
>
> I do have a book ordered. "ESPRESSO! Starting and Running Your Own
> Specialty Coffee Business"
> Hopefully it will give me some insite.
>
> Okay, so I do understand that LOCATION is the first thing but I can't
> buy property until I'm sure the county and state will allow me to run a
> drive-thru shop........I can't get a business lic. until I've got a
> location and am SURE we can open. I can't be sure I can open until I'm
> sure I can afford to open.....I can't be sure I can afford to open if I
> don't know what all I need and what all needs to be
> done.................
> IS IT REALLY THIS CONFUSING????
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:51:17
From:
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
So Tim,
Does that mean I should have a different machine for each individual
task??
I don't like manual machines........I don't mind the work....I just
don't have the knowledge at this point do 'make them work'.
I don't plan on having employees......I plan to be the "BE ALL, DO ALL"
Including day to day operations, ordering, inventory, book
work......."everything"
Yeah, am I in over my head with that way of thinking??? I've just found
over the years of running 'other peoples business' that you can't hire
good help. No one works as hard as the person who depends on the
business for their livelyhood.
I'd rather just do it myself and know that it's done the way "I" want
it done.
Also, I don't plan to 'lease'. I plan to buy the property, that way
when my lease is up the owner of the property can't say......."Thank
you very much, I'm going to have a great coffee business now" And I'm
out on my butt with no location and no business!!!
Thanks for the LUCK wishes........I can see now that I'm really, really
going to need them........
What have you found to be the average 'start-up' costs??
>From start to opening day???
I have a camper that we are planning to remodel. The only plus there is
that it is already paid for. But I know the gutting and remodel is
going to get expensive quite quickly.
Thanks for the advice,
Angel
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:34:31
From:
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
Okay, so basically what I got out of those two posts is that:
#1 I know even less than I thought I did.........
AND
#2 I know WAY less than I thought I did............
Thanks for the clarification on the maker types.......I just thought
more expensive and more automatic would be better.
I have NO experiance with coffee.......I don't even own a coffee pot as
far as I know. Hubby might have one hidden somewhere but I don't know
where......tells you how often we make coffee.
I will have to either take a class (online hopefully) or actually go to
WORK in an espresso shop (NONE AROUND HERE) to get some knowledge.
Yeah, I've read and re-read that the first thing is LOCATION, LOCATION,
LOCATION.
We have our realtor looking as we speak but we plan to be right outside
a busy military installation. On the proper side of the road for easy
access of the early morning commute.
There are a good 10,000+ vehicles that go onto post between 5am and
11am..........some go through twice (if they go home to shower after
PT)
We know it's a good location, just have to find a peice for sale.
As for going into business with the spouse...(I laughed when I read
your post).....BUT, he is the money of the operation.....;)
He is also out of the country for the next 18+ months so it is MY WAY
or NO WAY.
He can like the way I do things or he can just deal with
it.........either way it's my baby and he understands that and just
supports me. He has opinions but that's about it, the real deal is up
to me. I'm the one doing all the real work where the shop is concerned.
I do have a book ordered. "ESPRESSO! Starting and Running Your Own
Specialty Coffee Business"
Hopefully it will give me some insite.
Okay, so I do understand that LOCATION is the first thing but I can't
buy property until I'm sure the county and state will allow me to run a
drive-thru shop........I can't get a business lic. until I've got a
location and am SURE we can open. I can't be sure I can open until I'm
sure I can afford to open.....I can't be sure I can afford to open if I
don't know what all I need and what all needs to be
done.................
IS IT REALLY THIS CONFUSING????
|
| | |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:52:11
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
<Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net > wrote in message
news:1155317671.648494.67290@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
<snip/
> Okay, so I do understand that LOCATION is the first thing but I can't
> buy property until I'm sure the county and state will allow me to run a
> drive-thru shop........I can't get a business lic. until I've got a
> location and am SURE we can open. I can't be sure I can open until I'm
> sure I can afford to open.....I can't be sure I can afford to open if I
> don't know what all I need and what all needs to be
> done.................
> IS IT REALLY THIS CONFUSING????
>
no we are all familiar with catch 22 :-)
|
| | |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 18:07:41
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
Sounds like a military dependent talking. ;)
There's usually a dependent services office (or whatever it's called now?)
that can often point you in the right direction when it comes to starting
your own business. How useful they'll be is something you could look into.
It sounds to me like you're looking forward to having fun handing out all
those lattes to the lifers heading in for P.T., but my experience tells me
their spouses usually keep them on a tight budget. From my time in the
military I seem to recall that I mainly carried a thermos while the single
grunts living on-post had the spare money to blow on fancy coffee. Is there
any chance you could be licensed to run your stand on-post?
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
<Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net > wrote in message
news:1155317671.648494.67290@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Okay, so basically what I got out of those two posts is that:
>
> #1 I know even less than I thought I did.........
>
> AND
>
> #2 I know WAY less than I thought I did............
>
> Thanks for the clarification on the maker types.......I just thought
> more expensive and more automatic would be better.
> I have NO experiance with coffee.......I don't even own a coffee pot as
> far as I know. Hubby might have one hidden somewhere but I don't know
> where......tells you how often we make coffee.
> I will have to either take a class (online hopefully) or actually go to
> WORK in an espresso shop (NONE AROUND HERE) to get some knowledge.
>
> Yeah, I've read and re-read that the first thing is LOCATION, LOCATION,
> LOCATION.
> We have our realtor looking as we speak but we plan to be right outside
> a busy military installation. On the proper side of the road for easy
> access of the early morning commute.
> There are a good 10,000+ vehicles that go onto post between 5am and
> 11am..........some go through twice (if they go home to shower after
> PT)
> We know it's a good location, just have to find a peice for sale.
>
> As for going into business with the spouse...(I laughed when I read
> your post).....BUT, he is the money of the operation.....;)
> He is also out of the country for the next 18+ months so it is MY WAY
> or NO WAY.
> He can like the way I do things or he can just deal with
> it.........either way it's my baby and he understands that and just
> supports me. He has opinions but that's about it, the real deal is up
> to me. I'm the one doing all the real work where the shop is concerned.
>
> I do have a book ordered. "ESPRESSO! Starting and Running Your Own
> Specialty Coffee Business"
> Hopefully it will give me some insite.
>
> Okay, so I do understand that LOCATION is the first thing but I can't
> buy property until I'm sure the county and state will allow me to run a
> drive-thru shop........I can't get a business lic. until I've got a
> location and am SURE we can open. I can't be sure I can open until I'm
> sure I can afford to open.....I can't be sure I can afford to open if I
> don't know what all I need and what all needs to be
> done.................
> IS IT REALLY THIS CONFUSING????
>
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:28:05
From: Tim
Subject: Re: Automatic or Semi-Automatic???
|
The super-automatic machines are nice because anyone who can push a
button can make an espresso. There tends to be a lot of employee
turnover in the coffee shop industry so these machines can save you a
lot of training costs while still maintaining a high level of drink
consistency.
There are also draw backs to these machines in my opinion. 1) You can
not find used version of these machines often because they are very new
in comparison to the semi-automatic machines. 2) They are some of the
most expensive machines available. 3)If any part of the machine breaks
you are down. If you have a separate grinder and it breaks you can
still use another grinder, if the one in your super-auto breaks you are
shut down.
Espresso based drinks are the life blood of coffee shops because they
are generally the most profitable beverage you will sell.
Here is some advice I got many years ago and have always agreed with.
Be sure you have more than one group on your machine so if one has an
error you can still use another. Make sure there are manual overrides
so if the electronics malfunction you can still make drinks manually.
Good luck, the startup phase can be very scary once you start looking
at lease prices and terms at desirable locations.
~Tim
jim schulman wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2006 09:17:14 -0700, Angel4JohnnyB@centurytel.net wrote:
>
> >I'm sure some of you started out the same way (maybe!!!)
> >I've looked at several machines but the one that really caught my eye
> >was the Astra Super Mega II Automated Coffee & Espresso Service Center
> >But it is very expensive and in reality we won't need anything that
> >makes 120 cups per hour.
>
> That type of machine is called a "super-auto." You push a button, it
> grinds the coffee and makes a cup of coffee; some models will also
> make the milk froth automatically. Semi-autos and autos are regular
> espresso machines with a separate grinder which you pack yourself,
> load the portafilter and make the shot. The automatic variety turns
> itself off, the semi auto does not.
>
> If you don't hire people skilled in making espresso, or train them
> yourself, you are better off with a super-auto thaty requires no
> skills from the operator.
>
> No superauto will make espresso that would pass muster with Italians
> or other knowledgeable people; however, in large lattes, etc, the
> difference is negligible.
>
> The main criterion in choosing a comercial coffee maker is service.
> This goes doubly for superautomatics, since they are not very amenable
> to DIY tinkering, and since they require much more frequent tuneups
> than other kinds of machines. Choose any brand where the service is
> local, fast, and contract based: you are out of buisiness while that
> funny red light you never noticed before is blinking.
|
|
