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Date: 29 Jun 2006 20:25:10
From: Cordovero
Subject: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
With my two machines out of commission, I've had the chance to venture out
for coffee again, in Las Vegas where I have been living (though, for those
interested, I'm moving to Los Angeles at the end of August).
I started out at the small independently owned cafe and dessert place where,
years ago when I first tried them, got snippy with me when I expressed
support for their attempt to have an independent cafe, when I was told,
"We're not a cafe! We're a bakery!" It showed in their coffee. They do
have a lovely cafe atmosphere, however.
Second, I went to the only new independent cafe I've seen open up this past
year, a place whose name for the moment I will not post, but whose subtitle
has "Gourmet Coffee" in it. It's Illy coffee by the way, and for all we
know about Illy, I actually tend to get optimistic when I see Illy-exclusive
places because, while it unfortunately cuts out local roasters who should be
supported, at least indicates that the place is willing to pay more than
minimum for coffee. The atmosphere was really lovely at this place, since
they also sell any of the furniture you see! I think that's totally cool.
I once visited my brother at one of the fanciest hotels in San Francisco,
and it, too, allowed you to order any of the expensive furnishings you
experienced in its room. I have no problem with that. So, the decor was
lovely. The only ugly thing was that all the way to one side of the cafe
was an elevated area with a huge plasma TV with some demo running.....
A sweet young woman made me a cappuccino, and it was fine. I took a table
with my girlfriend near a guy working away on his laptop... all the way on
the OTHER side of the cafe from the TV.
Five minutes later, a woman approached the laptop guy and gave a huge spiel
about this One World internet service thing. My gf and I had to stop our
conversation since we couldn't talk over it. We waited patiently. The guy
allowed the hard sell and went over to the TV area for the demonstration.
She then came up to us. I interrupted her long intro first line, and just
said, without any ire, "We're not interested, thank you. We just came in
for coffee." To which she responded aggressively, "So you're not an open
minded person?" To which I responded, "Uh, I just said that we came in for
the cafe, not to be solicited." To which she responded defensively, "No one
is soliciting you. You are just being invited to a demonstration. I'm not
selling anything. I am the owner's best friend. Have you even heard of the
new edition of Windows?" [Now I know this to be a lie, since I've looked up
One World, and it is a franchise money making thing, which you pay $2000 for
a franchise etc.] I responded, "I'm still not interested." As she walked
away, I called to her and she turned around, "Excuse me. I don't appreciate
being accused of not being "open minded" because I don't want to hear your
presentation!" To which she called out, "Sir, I never accused you of
anything and said nothing of the kind." She walked away as I was
responding, "Yes, actually you did say it."
Okay, besides relating my bad experience, it occurred to me that this must
be the business model of the cafe: namely, we won't make any money selling
coffee [it's in a very low foot traffic area], and we'd be lucky to sell a
piece of furniture now and then, so let's set up a cafe as a front to
solicit people for an entirely other business?
Cordo
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 04:12:34
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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For what it's worth, I've tried two places since. One is a chain out here
in the West that has is called something like "Java To Go" or something and
has a drive through. The cappuccino wasn't very good and the woman making
it obviously had no experience (and took forever to help me) but I was
appreciative that her supervisor saw that she was using 2% to make my nonfat
cappuccino, and made her make it all over again. I thought that was cool.
But I wouldn't go back.
The other place I went was, yesterday, a local Starbucks. The "barista" was
a young guy with spiked blonde hair, and he really concentrated on my
cappuccino, and it was very good. So out of all my attempts at other
places, Starbucks had the best cappa so far.
On another "for what it's worth" tangent... I've noticed that the Starbucks
in airports and within-other-stores almost always make swill, while
standalone Starbucks have generally made me really good drinks over my
travels these past four months. I wish I understood the reason why. I
thought all Starbucks were awful, based on my drinking their stuff at
airports, but now I realize it's somehow totally a different drink they make
there (and which ought to be put down the drain).
C
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 04:44:56
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 04:12:34 GMT, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>On another "for what it's worth" tangent... I've noticed that the Starbucks
>in airports and within-other-stores almost always make swill, while
>standalone Starbucks have generally made me really good drinks over my
>travels these past four months. I wish I understood the reason why. I
>thought all Starbucks were awful, based on my drinking their stuff at
>airports, but now I realize it's somehow totally a different drink they make
>there (and which ought to be put down the drain).
Starbucks has been franchising some of their locations to whoever
wants to fork over the licensing fee. The franchises show the
Starbucks logo, but are otherwise untrained in making coffee as real
Starbucks employees are. There's a franchisee in Chandler, AZ, that
makes horrible coffee, and the staff are all unprofessional. From
past reports, many, if not most of the Starbucks shops in the airports
are franchised.
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 21:58:02
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
>Starbucks has been franchising some of their locations to whoever
>wants to fork over the licensing fee. The franchises show the
>Starbucks logo, but are otherwise untrained in making coffee as real
>Starbucks employees are. There's a franchisee in Chandler, AZ, that
>makes horrible coffee, and the staff are all unprofessional. From
>past reports, many, if not most of the Starbucks shops in the airports
>are franchised.
>
I fthat is true, then it would be unfair of me to compare McDonalds to
Starbucks any longer. From all that I have heard, McDonalds keeps a
close eye on their franchises and requires strict adherence to their
coporate standards.
Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
above? ?
Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 06:26:53
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:58:02 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
>
>>Starbucks has been franchising some of their locations to whoever
>>wants to fork over the licensing fee. The franchises show the
>>Starbucks logo, but are otherwise untrained in making coffee as real
>>Starbucks employees are. There's a franchisee in Chandler, AZ, that
>>makes horrible coffee, and the staff are all unprofessional. From
>>past reports, many, if not most of the Starbucks shops in the airports
>>are franchised.
>>
>I fthat is true, then it would be unfair of me to compare McDonalds to
>Starbucks any longer. From all that I have heard, McDonalds keeps a
>close eye on their franchises and requires strict adherence to their
>coporate standards.
>
>Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
>above? ?
>
> Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
choffman is correct. By not offering training, Starbucks avoids
falling under the legal definition of "franchise" and all the
regulations that go along with it. Starbucks refers to these non-owned
locations (correctly) as "licensees." By contrast, McDonalds is
primarily a franchise system.
Marshall
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 12:09:59
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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It seems to me that there are ways around this if they really wanted to. If
the training was offered by an unaffiliated third party (SCAA) and it was a
pre-requisite that you have some credential as having passed a course or
otherwise demonstrate proficiency before they sell you the product and give
you the right to display the logo, I think this would pass legal muster.
There are a lot of specialized products (new fangled kinds of gas lines for
plumbers, roofing systems, etc.) where the manufacture won't sell you the
product and/or the right to call yourself an "authorized dealer" unless you
are trained and certified to prepare/install it first. It makes perfect
sense that you don't have your product's reputation destroyed by giving it
to the unqualified to sell and doing so is not "franchising".
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:qrg9a2looeel6jf4q2o425dceruq151jpv@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:58:02 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
>>
>>>Starbucks has been franchising some of their locations to whoever
>>>wants to fork over the licensing fee. The franchises show the
>>>Starbucks logo, but are otherwise untrained in making coffee as real
>>>Starbucks employees are. There's a franchisee in Chandler, AZ, that
>>>makes horrible coffee, and the staff are all unprofessional. From
>>>past reports, many, if not most of the Starbucks shops in the airports
>>>are franchised.
>>>
>>I fthat is true, then it would be unfair of me to compare McDonalds to
>>Starbucks any longer. From all that I have heard, McDonalds keeps a
>>close eye on their franchises and requires strict adherence to their
>>coporate standards.
>>
>>Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
>>above? ?
>>
>> Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
> choffman is correct. By not offering training, Starbucks avoids
> falling under the legal definition of "franchise" and all the
> regulations that go along with it. Starbucks refers to these non-owned
> locations (correctly) as "licensees." By contrast, McDonalds is
> primarily a franchise system.
>
> Marshall
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 16:49:17
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:09:59 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>It seems to me that there are ways around this if they really wanted to. If
>the training was offered by an unaffiliated third party (SCAA) and it was a
>pre-requisite that you have some credential as having passed a course or
>otherwise demonstrate proficiency before they sell you the product and give
>you the right to display the logo, I think this would pass legal muster.
>There are a lot of specialized products (new fangled kinds of gas lines for
>plumbers, roofing systems, etc.) where the manufacture won't sell you the
>product and/or the right to call yourself an "authorized dealer" unless you
>are trained and certified to prepare/install it first. It makes perfect
>sense that you don't have your product's reputation destroyed by giving it
>to the unqualified to sell and doing so is not "franchising".
According to their Aramark contract, Starbucks actually does some
training:
http://contracts.onecle.com/starbucks/aramark.lic.1996.05.07.shtml
However, large pre-existing operators like Aramark probably come under
the "fractional franchise" exemption (under 20% of revenues).
Marshall
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 07:02:00
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>choffman is correct. By not offering training, Starbucks avoids
>falling under the legal definition of "franchise" and all the
>regulations that go along with it. Starbucks refers to these non-owned
>locations (correctly) as "licensees." By contrast, McDonalds is
>primarily a franchise system.
>
>Marshall
So this is what we get when Lawyers make coffee... ;-)
Randy "would you like a tort with your cappuccino" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 18:12:25
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 06:26:53 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>choffman is correct. By not offering training, Starbucks avoids
>falling under the legal definition of "franchise" and all the
>regulations that go along with it. Starbucks refers to these non-owned
>locations (correctly) as "licensees." By contrast, McDonalds is
>primarily a franchise system.
>
>Marshall
"Licensee". I will use that word in the future for describing these
"Starbucks" locations. It's a good word.
Curtis
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 20:45:36
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Cordovero asks:
> Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
I saw something vaguely similar when I worked at a store with a large
wine department. The store had just moved into a new space. The owner
installed a large, flat-panel video screen, a public computer, and a
free WiFi network. His design consultant envisioned a magical interplay
between video content provided by wineries and other producers, the
internet, and the tasting bar near the screen. Customers would use the
computer to access wine reviews, using the store's subscriptions if
necessary, and revenue would stream in ...
Before working there, I had worked as a software development engineer,
so my manager was a bit amused by my skepticism. While I was there, the
most popular programming was the local football team's cable television
broadcasts. Customers rarely used the computer, and the consultant fell
out of favor. A few people visited to admire our futuristic marketing,
but they didn't stay long (or buy anything). The low point was probably
a small club's attempt to use the space for weekly jam sessions. They
claimed to be playing bluegrass, but they sounded more like "old-time"
to me. I was more interested in setting aside space to sell bread from
my favorite bakery ...
My point is that there are legitimate businesses with strange ideas
about marketing that include large video screens and computer networks.
Their owners aren't necessarily trying to deceive us. There might be a
misguided design consultant lurking behind the scenes ... Maybe they're
just confused.
Felix
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 13:35:04
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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In alt.coffee, Felix <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I saw something vaguely similar when I worked at a store with a large
> wine department. The store had just moved into a new space. The owner
> installed a large, flat-panel video screen, a public computer, and a
> free WiFi network. His design consultant envisioned a magical interplay
> between video content provided by wineries and other producers, the
> internet, and the tasting bar near the screen. Customers would use the
> computer to access wine reviews, using the store's subscriptions if
> necessary, and revenue would stream in ...
I've often wished that video stores would have something similar. I'd
love to check the IMDB or the websites of my favorite movie reviewers when
selecting videos.
--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 18:25:55
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:35:04 +0000 (UTC), EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com
wrote:
>I've often wished that video stores would have something similar. I'd
>love to check the IMDB or the websites of my favorite movie reviewers when
>selecting videos.
For what it's worth, there's a "manga kisaten" in Tokyo that is kind
of like this. Actually, it's a used Japanese comic book shop that
let's you sit around and read the comics for an hour at a time for a
small fee. They also sell coffee to the patrons. Additionally, they
rent out time on their networked PCs. Normally, customers go there to
solely read comics, or solely surf the net. But, it would be simple
enough for someone that wants to know more about a particular comic or
artist to jump on the PC (for a few dollars more) as desired.
Maybe the U.S. video rental shops could install the PC as a kiosk,
with a dedicated link to a specific movie database. This would keep
customers from surfing the net, while still letting them get the movie
info they want.
Making this on-topic: Coffee shops that sell roasted specialty beans
could use a kiosk set-up to allow customers to call up info on beans
that they've never tried before, with a comparison chart that they
could use to see how the new beans compare with what they've had
before.
One thing I'd like to see at my local roaster is a tracking system
that lets me see what beans I've bought from them before, versus beans
that I still haven't tried yet. Being able to compare other customer
comments for a new bean would let me know what I'm in for before I buy
it. Of course, this would be an expense for the roaster, and I doubt
that they'd view it as worth the hassle.
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 05:36:54
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On 29 Jun 2006 20:45:36 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>misguided design consultant lurking behind the scenes ... Maybe they're
>just confused.
ugh. i got a phone call yesterday from a consultant who is working
with a new cafe in st. louis. she was trolling for samples, and in my
questioning i discovered that they are using a krups home machine to
"taste test" the samples they receive (at least until their "rebuilt
marzocco <read "tagex special" > arrives at some indeterminate date).
when i asked if they knew how to make espresso, i got a curt "i've
worked in several restaurants so i'm pretty sure i know how to make
espresso."
oh geez.
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 07:09:19
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
>On 29 Jun 2006 20:45:36 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >misguided design consultant lurking behind the scenes ... Maybe they're
> >just confused.
>
>ugh. i got a phone call yesterday from a consultant who is working
>with a new cafe in st. louis. she was trolling for samples, and in my
>questioning i discovered that they are using a krups home machine to
>"taste test" the samples they receive (at least until their "rebuilt
>marzocco <read "tagex special"> arrives at some indeterminate date).
>when i asked if they knew how to make espresso, i got a curt "i've
>worked in several restaurants so i'm pretty sure i know how to make
>espresso."
>
Barry: Do you know how to make espresso?
Consultant: I've worked in several restaurants
so i'm pretty sure i know how to make espresso.
Barry: We have a consultant that can come
over there for free to help you learn
the best methods right here.
Consultant: Really? Can I talk to him?
Barry: It's a 'her.'
Consultant: OK. Can I talk to HER?
Barry: [calling out]- Maddie. Someone on the
phone wants to talk to you!
Randy "give the veal a try" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 15:01:12
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:09:19 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>Barry: Do you know how to make espresso?
>Consultant: I've worked in several restaurants
> so i'm pretty sure i know how to make espresso.
>Barry: We have a consultant that can come
> over there for free to help you learn
> the best methods right here.
>Consultant: Really? Can I talk to him?
>Barry: It's a 'her.'
>Consultant: OK. Can I talk to HER?
>Barry: [calling out]- Maddie. Someone on the
> phone wants to talk to you!
actually, my written comments which accompany the samples say, in
part, "More than anything, I'd like to offer you and Mr. N____ the
opportunity to learn how to produce the best coffee drinks you can,
with whatever coffee you choose. Come up to the warehouse some
afternoon in the next few weeks, bring the samples you've received
from the various roasters, and spend a few hours with me playing on
the espresso machine. It'll only cost you the time. The "espresso
scene" in St. Louis is embarrassing, and I'd like to try to change
that, one location at a time."
good offer?
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 09:07:22
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:40faa29f1u36j2vtb8ac31shj2rdtkoatm@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:09:19 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Barry: Do you know how to make espresso?
> >Consultant: I've worked in several restaurants
> > so i'm pretty sure i know how to make espresso.
> >Barry: We have a consultant that can come
> > over there for free to help you learn
> > the best methods right here.
> >Consultant: Really? Can I talk to him?
> >Barry: It's a 'her.'
> >Consultant: OK. Can I talk to HER?
> >Barry: [calling out]- Maddie. Someone on the
> > phone wants to talk to you!
>
>
> actually, my written comments which accompany the samples say, in
> part, "More than anything, I'd like to offer you and Mr. N____ the
> opportunity to learn how to produce the best coffee drinks you can,
> with whatever coffee you choose. Come up to the warehouse some
> afternoon in the next few weeks, bring the samples you've received
> from the various roasters, and spend a few hours with me playing on
> the espresso machine. It'll only cost you the time. The "espresso
> scene" in St. Louis is embarrassing, and I'd like to try to change
> that, one location at a time."
>
>
> good offer?
>
>
Sometimes it's best to just realize defeat and throw in the towel.
Achieving personal growth sometimes means recognizing that one lives in a
place with no class whatsoever, and moving somewhere one's skills will be
appreciated.
Idaho extends the welcome mat to Barry--
ken
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 16:00:58
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:09:19 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
>wrote:
>
> >Barry: Do you know how to make espresso?
> >Consultant: I've worked in several restaurants
> > so i'm pretty sure i know how to make espresso.
> >Barry: We have a consultant that can come
> > over there for free to help you learn
> > the best methods right here.
> >Consultant: Really? Can I talk to him?
> >Barry: It's a 'her.'
> >Consultant: OK. Can I talk to HER?
> >Barry: [calling out]- Maddie. Someone on the
> > phone wants to talk to you!
>
>
>actually, my written comments which accompany the samples say, in
>part, "More than anything, I'd like to offer you and Mr. N____ the
>opportunity to learn how to produce the best coffee drinks you can,
>with whatever coffee you choose. Come up to the warehouse some
>afternoon in the next few weeks, bring the samples you've received
>from the various roasters, and spend a few hours with me playing on
>the espresso machine. It'll only cost you the time. The "espresso
>scene" in St. Louis is embarrassing, and I'd like to try to change
>that, one location at a time."
>
>
>good offer?
>
GOOD!? Are you kidding? It makes me want to move to Illinois! ;-)
When it comes to things like this there are two kinds of people- those
who want to learn, and those that can't be taught. Usually the second
group thinks that because they are sure they know more than you.
If they don't recongnize the opportunity you have offered them, then
they surely belong to the second group.
Randy "learned somethin' today" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 20:49:10
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:00:58 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>When it comes to things like this there are two kinds of people- those
>who want to learn, and those that can't be taught. Usually the second
>group thinks that because they are sure they know more than you.
>
i'm sitting in a coffeehouse in terre haute, indiana, on my way home
from the US Gran Prix, and i just messaged june that i'll be leaving
soon because i can't stand to listen to them froth any more milk.
<shudder >
--barry "espresso was so-so"
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 16:53:15
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Barry Jarrett wrote:
> ...i just messaged june that i'll be leaving
> soon because i can't stand to listen to them froth any more milk.
>
> <shudder>
Was it screaming?
--
St. John
"Oh, the humanity..."
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 14:48:27
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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Cordovero wrote:
> Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
>
> With my two machines out of commission, I've had the chance to venture out
> for coffee again, in Las Vegas where I have been living (though, for those
> interested, I'm moving to Los Angeles at the end of August).
>
...snip...
>
> Okay, besides relating my bad experience, it occurred to me that this must
> be the business model of the cafe: namely, we won't make any money selling
> coffee [it's in a very low foot traffic area], and we'd be lucky to sell a
> piece of furniture now and then, so let's set up a cafe as a front to
> solicit people for an entirely other business?
>
> Cordo
How about lingerie wearing waitresses serving Illy coffee. Would you
have watched the presentation then? Maybe not with the girlfriend
present, but maybe after you drop her off?
Marty
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 22:47:28
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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"Cordovero" > wrote in message >
<snipski >
> Okay, besides relating my bad experience, it occurred to me that this must
> be the business model of the cafe: namely, we won't make any money
> selling coffee [it's in a very low foot traffic area], and we'd be lucky
> to sell a piece of furniture now and then, so let's set up a cafe as a
> front to solicit people for an entirely other business?
>
> Cordo
A friend of mine learnt a couple of sentances in Russian, which nonplusses
most sales reps. He came unstuck once, when the smart-arse at the next table
started to engage him in conversation.
Now he finds that Icelandic works best, even with the hardened door-to-door
brigade.
Bertie
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 04:08:29
From: Randy R
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
"Bertie Doe" <montebrasite4@ntl.com > wrote in message
news:4gj03jF1n4mieU1@individual.net...
> A friend of mine learnt a couple of sentances in Russian, which nonplusses
> most sales reps. He came unstuck once, when the smart-arse at the next
> table started to engage him in conversation.
> Now he finds that Icelandic works best, even with the hardened
> door-to-door brigade.
>
Maybe I should record a Russian message on my answering machine...
Randy R
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Date: 04 Jul 2006 09:18:02
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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"Randy R" wrote in message >
> "Bertie Doe" wrote in message
>> A friend of mine learnt a couple of sentances in Russian, which
>> nonplusses most sales reps. He came unstuck once, when the smart-arse at
>> the next table started to engage him in conversation.
>> Now he finds that Icelandic works best, even with the hardened
>> door-to-door brigade.
>>
>
> Maybe I should record a Russian message on my answering machine...
>
> Randy R
I believe your namesake has the ultimate answering machine upgrade : voice
recognition/tazer/self destruct - the full works. For cheapskates, there's
allways BabelFish.
BD
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 17:36:45
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
When I attended Columbia U. in the late 70s, there was a "Vitamin Store" on
Upper Broadway. In the window of the store were several bottles of vitamins
that were extremely faded because they had been there a long time. Inside
the store were no vitamins in evidence but there was a small window in a
wall where you could place your numbers bets. I assume the police were paid
to look the other way.
A few years before that when I was at Penn there was a pizza parlor in West
Philly where various unsavory characters would be handed bags from under the
counter that did not look like they had pizza in them. Later I heard that
the pizza parlor had been busted for drug dealing and was part of a chain of
Mafia run pizza parlor/drug dealing establishments. I'm guessing that the
bust occurred at the Fed level because again I'm pretty confident that the
local cops knew what was going on (it wasn't that hard to figure out) and
were in on it.
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:GGWog.60$ye3.4@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
>
> With my two machines out of commission, I've had the chance to venture out
> for coffee again, in Las Vegas where I have been living (though, for those
> interested, I'm moving to Los Angeles at the end of August).
>
> I started out at the small independently owned cafe and dessert place
> where, years ago when I first tried them, got snippy with me when I
> expressed support for their attempt to have an independent cafe, when I
> was told, "We're not a cafe! We're a bakery!" It showed in their coffee.
> They do have a lovely cafe atmosphere, however.
>
> Second, I went to the only new independent cafe I've seen open up this
> past year, a place whose name for the moment I will not post, but whose
> subtitle has "Gourmet Coffee" in it. It's Illy coffee by the way, and for
> all we know about Illy, I actually tend to get optimistic when I see
> Illy-exclusive places because, while it unfortunately cuts out local
> roasters who should be supported, at least indicates that the place is
> willing to pay more than minimum for coffee. The atmosphere was really
> lovely at this place, since they also sell any of the furniture you see!
> I think that's totally cool. I once visited my brother at one of the
> fanciest hotels in San Francisco, and it, too, allowed you to order any of
> the expensive furnishings you experienced in its room. I have no problem
> with that. So, the decor was lovely. The only ugly thing was that all
> the way to one side of the cafe was an elevated area with a huge plasma TV
> with some demo running.....
>
> A sweet young woman made me a cappuccino, and it was fine. I took a table
> with my girlfriend near a guy working away on his laptop... all the way on
> the OTHER side of the cafe from the TV.
>
> Five minutes later, a woman approached the laptop guy and gave a huge
> spiel about this One World internet service thing. My gf and I had to
> stop our conversation since we couldn't talk over it. We waited
> patiently. The guy allowed the hard sell and went over to the TV area for
> the demonstration. She then came up to us. I interrupted her long intro
> first line, and just said, without any ire, "We're not interested, thank
> you. We just came in for coffee." To which she responded aggressively,
> "So you're not an open minded person?" To which I responded, "Uh, I just
> said that we came in for the cafe, not to be solicited." To which she
> responded defensively, "No one is soliciting you. You are just being
> invited to a demonstration. I'm not selling anything. I am the owner's
> best friend. Have you even heard of the new edition of Windows?" [Now I
> know this to be a lie, since I've looked up One World, and it is a
> franchise money making thing, which you pay $2000 for a franchise etc.] I
> responded, "I'm still not interested." As she walked away, I called to
> her and she turned around, "Excuse me. I don't appreciate being accused
> of not being "open minded" because I don't want to hear your
> presentation!" To which she called out, "Sir, I never accused you of
> anything and said nothing of the kind." She walked away as I was
> responding, "Yes, actually you did say it."
>
> Okay, besides relating my bad experience, it occurred to me that this must
> be the business model of the cafe: namely, we won't make any money
> selling coffee [it's in a very low foot traffic area], and we'd be lucky
> to sell a piece of furniture now and then, so let's set up a cafe as a
> front to solicit people for an entirely other business?
>
> Cordo
>
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 18:08:57
From: Alice Faber
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
When I lived in Florida, some 20 years ago, there was a sewing machine
store in the mall that stayed open for years, despite never having any
customers evident. My ex and I were convinced it was a front for some
kind of money laundering operation.
In article <nJmdnTOHTohz2jnZnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
> When I attended Columbia U. in the late 70s, there was a "Vitamin Store" on
> Upper Broadway. In the window of the store were several bottles of vitamins
> that were extremely faded because they had been there a long time. Inside
> the store were no vitamins in evidence but there was a small window in a
> wall where you could place your numbers bets. I assume the police were paid
> to look the other way.
>
> A few years before that when I was at Penn there was a pizza parlor in West
> Philly where various unsavory characters would be handed bags from under the
> counter that did not look like they had pizza in them. Later I heard that
> the pizza parlor had been busted for drug dealing and was part of a chain of
> Mafia run pizza parlor/drug dealing establishments. I'm guessing that the
> bust occurred at the Fed level because again I'm pretty confident that the
> local cops knew what was going on (it wasn't that hard to figure out) and
> were in on it.
>
>
>
>
> "Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote in message
> news:GGWog.60$ye3.4@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
> >
> > With my two machines out of commission, I've had the chance to venture out
> > for coffee again, in Las Vegas where I have been living (though, for those
> > interested, I'm moving to Los Angeles at the end of August).
> >
> > I started out at the small independently owned cafe and dessert place
> > where, years ago when I first tried them, got snippy with me when I
> > expressed support for their attempt to have an independent cafe, when I
> > was told, "We're not a cafe! We're a bakery!" It showed in their coffee.
> > They do have a lovely cafe atmosphere, however.
> >
> > Second, I went to the only new independent cafe I've seen open up this
> > past year, a place whose name for the moment I will not post, but whose
> > subtitle has "Gourmet Coffee" in it. It's Illy coffee by the way, and for
> > all we know about Illy, I actually tend to get optimistic when I see
> > Illy-exclusive places because, while it unfortunately cuts out local
> > roasters who should be supported, at least indicates that the place is
> > willing to pay more than minimum for coffee. The atmosphere was really
> > lovely at this place, since they also sell any of the furniture you see!
> > I think that's totally cool. I once visited my brother at one of the
> > fanciest hotels in San Francisco, and it, too, allowed you to order any of
> > the expensive furnishings you experienced in its room. I have no problem
> > with that. So, the decor was lovely. The only ugly thing was that all
> > the way to one side of the cafe was an elevated area with a huge plasma TV
> > with some demo running.....
> >
> > A sweet young woman made me a cappuccino, and it was fine. I took a table
> > with my girlfriend near a guy working away on his laptop... all the way on
> > the OTHER side of the cafe from the TV.
> >
> > Five minutes later, a woman approached the laptop guy and gave a huge
> > spiel about this One World internet service thing. My gf and I had to
> > stop our conversation since we couldn't talk over it. We waited
> > patiently. The guy allowed the hard sell and went over to the TV area for
> > the demonstration. She then came up to us. I interrupted her long intro
> > first line, and just said, without any ire, "We're not interested, thank
> > you. We just came in for coffee." To which she responded aggressively,
> > "So you're not an open minded person?" To which I responded, "Uh, I just
> > said that we came in for the cafe, not to be solicited." To which she
> > responded defensively, "No one is soliciting you. You are just being
> > invited to a demonstration. I'm not selling anything. I am the owner's
> > best friend. Have you even heard of the new edition of Windows?" [Now I
> > know this to be a lie, since I've looked up One World, and it is a
> > franchise money making thing, which you pay $2000 for a franchise etc.] I
> > responded, "I'm still not interested." As she walked away, I called to
> > her and she turned around, "Excuse me. I don't appreciate being accused
> > of not being "open minded" because I don't want to hear your
> > presentation!" To which she called out, "Sir, I never accused you of
> > anything and said nothing of the kind." She walked away as I was
> > responding, "Yes, actually you did say it."
> >
> > Okay, besides relating my bad experience, it occurred to me that this must
> > be the business model of the cafe: namely, we won't make any money
> > selling coffee [it's in a very low foot traffic area], and we'd be lucky
> > to sell a piece of furniture now and then, so let's set up a cafe as a
> > front to solicit people for an entirely other business?
> >
> > Cordo
> >
--
AF
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 05:31:00
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:36:45 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>the store were no vitamins in evidence but there was a small window in a
>wall where you could place your numbers bets. I assume the police were paid
>to look the other way.
>
there used to be a large neighborhood cafeteria around the corner that
had about 50 phone lines in the back room.
the owner used to go on "state sponsored vacations" from time to time.
--barry "steve should've paid taxes on those 'earnings'"
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 21:36:02
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:25:10 GMT, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
Wow! A new business model. Open a coffee shop and invite your friends
to hustle your customers all day. I wonder if they've applied to make
a presentation at the next SCAA conference?
Marshall
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 18:32:07
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:36:02 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:25:10 GMT, "Cordovero"
><cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
>>Is my experience unusual or have y'all encountered it?
>
>Wow! A new business model. Open a coffee shop and invite your friends
>to hustle your customers all day. I wonder if they've applied to make
>a presentation at the next SCAA conference?
It's a rather old business model: "erst kommt das Fressen; dann die
Moral (grub first; then the sermon - Berthold Brecht, Threepenny
Opera, soup kitchen scene)" Ad paid newspapers and TV have shown it
works on the affluent too.
Of course, them charging for the coffee is outrageous; if there's
going to be a sermon, the grub has to be free.
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 10:16:03
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
Cordovero wrote:
> ...she responded defensively, "No one
> is soliciting you. You are just being invited to a demonstration. I'm not
> selling anything. I am the owner's best friend."
...which would have been the perfect time to ask her to invite her best
friend to the table for the duration of the discussion. Exploration of
the various gambits which might follow is left to the imagination of the
reader.
--
St. John
The older I grow, the less important the comma becomes. Let the reader
catch his own breath.
-Elizabeth Clarkson Zwart
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 19:09:47
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
Oh, the owner is receiveing a letter from me.
C
"St. John Smythe" <sinjen@n4vu.com > wrote in message
news:e83bn3$pk8$1@n4vu2.n4vu.com...
> Cordovero wrote:
>> ...she responded defensively, "No one
>> is soliciting you. You are just being invited to a demonstration. I'm
>> not
>> selling anything. I am the owner's best friend."
>
> ...which would have been the perfect time to ask her to invite her best
> friend to the table for the duration of the discussion. Exploration of
> the various gambits which might follow is left to the imagination of the
> reader.
>
> --
> St. John
> The older I grow, the less important the comma becomes. Let the reader
> catch his own breath.
> -Elizabeth Clarkson Zwart
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 06:37:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
above? ?
absolutely true, but NOT something they publicize.
Dave "sdrt4v54" b
Randy G. wrote:
> choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
>
> >Starbucks has been franchising some of their locations to whoever
> >wants to fork over the licensing fee. The franchises show the
> >Starbucks logo, but are otherwise untrained in making coffee as real
> >Starbucks employees are. There's a franchisee in Chandler, AZ, that
> >makes horrible coffee, and the staff are all unprofessional. From
> >past reports, many, if not most of the Starbucks shops in the airports
> >are franchised.
> >
> I fthat is true, then it would be unfair of me to compare McDonalds to
> Starbucks any longer. From all that I have heard, McDonalds keeps a
> close eye on their franchises and requires strict adherence to their
> coporate standards.
>
> Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
> above? ?
>
>
> Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 22:06:21
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
I have worked with cilents that serve Sbux. Initially, if you wanted
to use their logo, your orders had to exceed 300lbs/mo. I don't know
if this is still true. At that time, they offerred no training to the
sellers. Essentialy, 75lbs a week is not that much coffee, unless you
have no clue what to do with it. These were not franchises. There are
still some of these clients out there. I will not service their
machines (out of warranty) and listen intently to the increasingly
negative comments from their customers.
I may have mentioned this in the past, but I can't breathe in a Sbux,
or a Barnies for that matter. Not meaning to disparage their product
necessarily, but the assault on my olfactry senses is so reprehensible
that it is intolerable from the time I open the door. I wish it were
not so. I have to avoid the sections of the malls that exude Barnie's
odors because the insult to my senses is unbearable.
I remember my first contact with them, when our company bought 17
Gaggia Assos from them and I spent months trying to make complete
machines. I then installed, tried to repair and subsequently removed
superautomatic Cimbalis from them, because they couldn't grasp the
concept.
To this day, when I conduct presentations or trainings in coffee, I
buy enough of them to show my presentees what not to do to coffee.
With regard to McD's, you will see a markedly increased quality in
their coffee, as some of their largest and most influential
franchisees are demanding it. It's too bad that many chains are
patterning their profiles around Duncan Donuts, but that's now a
reality.
I spent 4 hours retraining at my newest and favorite coffee house
today, redesigning drink profiles and appearances, and learned as much
as I taught. The light cream that DD uses mixed with 2% ,makes an
incredribly well-textured, well presented drink.
Microfoam is easy, and latte are is still an eperiment but becoming
more fun.
But I digress, as usual.
Starbux will be increasing their market presence, and have made it
easier for retailers to use their coffee. Probably in the next year
they will be recognized as the largest fast- food establishment,
almost doubling the number of McD's locations from 15,000 to 30,000.
What has to happen now is to present the premise that quality coffee
and consistency has to be the key focus in this part of their
presentation.
I personally believe that McD's will be the leader in this movement.
DD has become complacent in their approach, adding flavored capps and
other foo drinks as a seasonal variation on their same theme,
reminding me of Baskin- Robbins and what flavor M&M's would be added
to this month's drink.
Frankly, I find the focus on the coffee to be the least of the major
foci on the mass and specialty market. Sbux has certainly taken a lead
in the buying and plantation markets, but not with the real interest
that I have read about Intellengtsia. I have long know this to be true
with Supreme Bean.
It is incumbent upon us as coffee afficionados to encourage those who
strive for excellence in the cup to make sure the product and
profitabilty info are available to those that have an interest.
You just can't stay home and complain.
Preparing to teach is the best way to learn.
I try to prerpare to teach
every day.
I wonder at what I learn every day.....al
On 30 Jun 2006 06:37:12 -0700, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
>Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
>above? ?
>
>
>absolutely true, but NOT something they publicize.
>
>Dave "sdrt4v54" b
>
>
>Randy G. wrote:
>> choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
>>
>> >Starbucks has been franchising some of their locations to whoever
>> >wants to fork over the licensing fee. The franchises show the
>> >Starbucks logo, but are otherwise untrained in making coffee as real
>> >Starbucks employees are. There's a franchisee in Chandler, AZ, that
>> >makes horrible coffee, and the staff are all unprofessional. From
>> >past reports, many, if not most of the Starbucks shops in the airports
>> >are franchised.
>> >
>> I fthat is true, then it would be unfair of me to compare McDonalds to
>> Starbucks any longer. From all that I have heard, McDonalds keeps a
>> close eye on their franchises and requires strict adherence to their
>> coporate standards.
>>
>> Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
>> above? ?
>>
>>
>> Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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| | | |
Date: 01 Jul 2006 04:35:09
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
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|
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Date: 03 Jul 2006 20:38:06
From: Paul Vojta
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
In article <1151674632.266415.106560@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
>Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
>above? ?
Does Starbucks franchise?
Starbucks does not franchise operations and has no plans to franchise
in the foreseeable future.
In North America, the majority of our stores are Company-operated. As
an exception, Starbucks may enter into licensing arrangements with
companies who provide access to real estate which would otherwise be
unavailable such as airport locations, national grocery chains, major
food services corporations, college and university campuses and hospitals.
Source: http://www.starbucks.com/customer/faq_qanda.asp?name=invest
Random thought: A headline in "The Onion" read, "Starbucks opens shop
in restroom of existing Starbucks." Hm... would that be a licensed
location?
--Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu
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| | | |
Date: 03 Jul 2006 17:10:42
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:38:06 +0000 (UTC), vojta@math.berkeley.edu (Paul
Vojta) wrote:
>In article <1151674632.266415.106560@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Can someone out there verify the Starbies franchise thing as described
>>above? ?
>
> Does Starbucks franchise?
>
> Starbucks does not franchise operations and has no plans to franchise
> in the foreseeable future.
>
> In North America, the majority of our stores are Company-operated. As
> an exception, Starbucks may enter into licensing arrangements with
> companies who provide access to real estate which would otherwise be
> unavailable such as airport locations, national grocery chains, major
> food services corporations, college and university campuses and hospitals.
>
>Source: http://www.starbucks.com/customer/faq_qanda.asp?name=invest
>
>Random thought: A headline in "The Onion" read, "Starbucks opens shop
>in restroom of existing Starbucks." Hm... would that be a licensed
>location?
>
>--Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu
Yep, sorta a half-truth or a half-lie depending on translation. All
the employees at a Starbucks in any grocery store, etc., are employees
of that store, not Starbucks. Licensing is just a variation.
Of course, check back far enough and Starbucks said it would have no
partners at all. Got their dessert served to themselves going into
Japan, they did.
jim
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| | | |
Date: 03 Jul 2006 22:18:14
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
|
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 06:35:32
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
how sad and SO common.
pathetic. -- and store those portafilters on the drain tray!! no point
in getting them hot! you might burn yourself!
dave "b7in7i7ghbvh" b
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2006 20:45:36 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >misguided design consultant lurking behind the scenes ... Maybe they're
> >just confused.
>
> ugh. i got a phone call yesterday from a consultant who is working
> with a new cafe in st. louis. she was trolling for samples, and in my
> questioning i discovered that they are using a krups home machine to
> "taste test" the samples they receive (at least until their "rebuilt
> marzocco <read "tagex special"> arrives at some indeterminate date).
> when i asked if they knew how to make espresso, i got a curt "i've
> worked in several restaurants so i'm pretty sure i know how to make
> espresso."
>
> oh geez.
|
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 06:33:14
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
The starbucks in airports and supermarkets are franchised or licensed
or some such and are NOT owned by Starbucks.
I hope they know how crappy their output really is!
Dave "vyji76rrmj" b
Cordovero wrote:
> For what it's worth, I've tried two places since. One is a chain out here
> in the West that has is called something like "Java To Go" or something and
> has a drive through. The cappuccino wasn't very good and the woman making
> it obviously had no experience (and took forever to help me) but I was
> appreciative that her supervisor saw that she was using 2% to make my nonfat
> cappuccino, and made her make it all over again. I thought that was cool.
> But I wouldn't go back.
>
> The other place I went was, yesterday, a local Starbucks. The "barista" was
> a young guy with spiked blonde hair, and he really concentrated on my
> cappuccino, and it was very good. So out of all my attempts at other
> places, Starbucks had the best cappa so far.
>
> On another "for what it's worth" tangent... I've noticed that the Starbucks
> in airports and within-other-stores almost always make swill, while
> standalone Starbucks have generally made me really good drinks over my
> travels these past four months. I wish I understood the reason why. I
> thought all Starbucks were awful, based on my drinking their stuff at
> airports, but now I realize it's somehow totally a different drink they make
> there (and which ought to be put down the drain).
>
> C
|
| | |
Date: 02 Jul 2006 04:26:18
From: Randy R
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151674394.442149.65710@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The starbucks in airports and supermarkets are franchised or licensed
> or some such and are NOT owned by Starbucks.
>
> I hope they know how crappy their output really is!
>
Then I guess I can ownestly say that I have never had a coffee drink from a
real Starbucks. I have had their coffee from airports, hotels, and
bookstores and formed my opinions from those experiences.
Randy R
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Jul 2006 09:22:01
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
> Then I guess I can ownestly say that I have never had a coffee drink from a
> real Starbucks. I have had their coffee from airports, hotels, and bookstores
> and formed my opinions from those experiences.
>
Randy, This isn't your problem, but Starbucks. By selling their 'good name'
they loose quality control, which dilutes their product. (no pun intended)
Avarice is clearly Starbucks motivivation. Dan
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2006 17:13:01
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
martymino...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Randy G. wrote:
> > choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
> >
> ...snip...
> >
> >
> > Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
> > http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
> Randy,
>
> Starbucks franchises their name to Barnes & Noble Bookstores. Also
> they sell their beans in many supermarkets.
>
> Marty
Correction, licenses their name, not franchised. My bad.
Marty
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2006 17:11:32
From:
Subject: Re: Cafe as Front for another business?
|
Randy G. wrote:
> choffman@austin.rr.com wrote:
>
...snip...
>
>
> Randy "low standards is one thing, but NO standards?" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Randy,
Starbucks franchises their name to Barnes & Noble Bookstores. Also
they sell their beans in many supermarkets.
Marty
|
| |
Date: 02 Jul 2006 04:10:09
From: daveb
Subject: Re: pseudo Starbucks
|
That's a shame, RR.
the 'real' starbucks are usually a LOT better. but far from the
quality to be found at the all too rare independent.
Dave "d6h6u,o- "
85 pids
Randy R wrote:
>
> Then I guess I can ownestly say that I have never had a coffee drink from a
> real Starbucks. I have had their coffee from airports, hotels, and
> bookstores and formed my opinions from those experiences.
>
> Randy R
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 16:02:30
From: Randy R
Subject: Re: pseudo Starbucks
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"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151838609.237236.150410@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> That's a shame, RR.
>
> the 'real' starbucks are usually a LOT better. but far from the
> quality to be found at the all too rare independent.
>
Unfortunately Starbucks is still usualy more drinkable than most of the
independents I have been to. (Though I cannot drink a full cup of Starbucks
coffee.)
Randy R
>
>
>
> Randy R wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Then I guess I can ownestly say that I have never had a coffee drink from
>> a
>> real Starbucks. I have had their coffee from airports, hotels, and
>> bookstores and formed my opinions from those experiences.
>>
>> Randy R
>
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 19:50:49
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: pseudo Starbucks
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> Unfortunately Starbucks is still usualy more drinkable than most of the
> independents I have been to. (Though I cannot drink a full cup of
> Starbucks coffee.)
> Randy R
This is my experience, validated over and over and over again, leaving out
the licensed Starbucks in stores and airports.
I'm truly grateful to them. In three long months of travelling on the road,
actual Starbucks stores came through for me so many times, while the
independents which I nevertheless patronized at every opportunity (sometimes
stubbornly slow) kept screwing up not only the coffee but my sanity (in a
variety of ways).
C
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