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Date: 06 Jul 2006 19:09:27
From: Cordo
Subject: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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I have a broken power button on my 2002 Gaggia Baby. Looking directly at
the wiring from the back (where it all plugs in), the connectors are:
Top left: double blue
Top right: grey
Bottom left: Red/White
Bottom right: red
I got a new button from WLL, and when I wired it up the same way, I blew the
fuse to half my house. Anybody have a wiring they could shoot me a post
about?
Cordo
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 04:57:10
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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With luck, someone will have a wiring diagram you can use. Did you try
calling WLL and asking them? Or is something wrong in Baby in addition
to the power switch? If all else fails and you have a meter, or even a
continuity checker, you can probably figure it out by tracing the wires
inside the Baby and then exploring the operation of the switch. As
someone (Ken? Robert?) observed a day or so ago, a home espresso
machine ain't a real complicated beast.
Be careful. We don't want to begin to refer to you as The Late Cordo.
Will
Cordo wrote:
> I have a broken power button on my 2002 Gaggia Baby. Looking directly at
> the wiring from the back (where it all plugs in), the connectors are:
>
> Top left: double blue
> Top right: grey
> Bottom left: Red/White
> Bottom right: red
>
> I got a new button from WLL, and when I wired it up the same way, I blew the
> fuse to half my house. Anybody have a wiring they could shoot me a post
> about?
>
> Cordo
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 14:34:00
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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WLL sent me a wiring diagram. FWIW, they've been very helpful to me over
the years.
C
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 15:45:32
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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"Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com > wrote:
>WLL sent me a wiring diagram. FWIW, they've been very helpful to me over
>the years.
>
Let me guess:
I WAS:
----------------
Top left: double blue
Top right: grey
Bottom left: Red/White
Bottom right: red
Now it is:
-----------------
Top left: double blue
Bottom left: grey
Top right: Red/White
Bottom right: red
?
Guess the wiring diagram and win a full 6" of heat shrink tubing and a
roll of solder wick!
Randy "80% lead 20% tin " G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 15:56:57
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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Okay, so they sent me the parts list instead, but I'm optimistic they'll
come through.
I'll let y'all know the right answer!
C
P.S. Got the Giotto up and running today. Seems to be fine. Thank god!
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:7sota2diftj20mh5dthmi9kj07f72k0rpi@4ax.com...
> "Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>WLL sent me a wiring diagram. FWIW, they've been very helpful to me over
>>the years.
>>
> Let me guess:
>
> I WAS:
> ----------------
> Top left: double blue
> Top right: grey
> Bottom left: Red/White
> Bottom right: red
>
> Now it is:
> -----------------
> Top left: double blue
> Bottom left: grey
> Top right: Red/White
> Bottom right: red
>
> ?
>
> Guess the wiring diagram and win a full 6" of heat shrink tubing and a
> roll of solder wick!
>
>
> Randy "80% lead 20% tin " G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 16:50:33
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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"Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com > wrote:
>Okay, so they sent me the parts list instead, but I'm optimistic they'll
>come through.
>
Try this (the folloiwng is guess work):
If you have an Ohm meter or continuity checker a light bulb with a
battery, you can use it to test the switch contacts:
-The switch has two pairs of contacts.
-When OFF no contacts connect to other contacts
-When ON they are connected in pairs
When you figure out which pair is which:
The power cord has three wires:
-One is the ground and attached to some large metal part like the
boiler mount.
-The other two are the ones that are going to the switch.
-one is the common and one is the hot
I would guess that the red one is the Hot.
This one should (might) connect to the red/white wire
Connect these two (red and Red-white) to a pair of the contacts that
connect when the switch is on.
-The other is the common. It would connect to the double blue.
To test without spending more money on fuses- connect as above and
with the machine UNPLUGGED turn it on. Conect an ohm meter to the two
blades on the power cord's plug. The resistance shoule be equal to or
slightly to that of the heating element on its own. If you read zero
ohms, (no resistance) we got it wrong. Obviously, it would be helpful
to have 1) an accurate ohm meter, and 2) to check the resistance of
the heating element on its own to be sure that it isn't shorted and to
know what it is know. Now turn the power switch on teh machine to OFF
and the resistance at the bl;ades should be infinite (no continuity).
The important thing is to be sure that hot is conneected to the lead
that leads first to the thermostat, then to the heating element, then
back through the over-heat t-stat, and then to the common side of the
wiring.
If you don't understand any of that, or if you are already dead from
testing, do not proceed any further! ;-)
And based on my recent previous attempts to describe someting in
words, be aware that I miught have gotten this completely wrong, but
at least it won't blow any fuses!
Randy "Ooooo... <ZURRRRGGG > Ahhhhh..." G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 05:29:33
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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glad to hear it! ~~
(always have a backup espresso machine ready!)
I'd like to know more about your roasting efforts . . . .
Dave "sf6th87b" B
www.hitechespresso.com
Cordo wrote:
> Thanks to everyone. I got out the Ohm meter and discovered that the
> contacts which make a circuit when the button is depressed are, indeed,
> rotated on this new Gaggia Baby power button. I rotated the wires
> appropriately, plugged the machine into a GFI (another great suggestion),
> and powered on, and it worked, except that now the power button was always
> lit, so I switched the wires on the left "circuit" and we are good to go!
>
> Thanks to everyone. Dave B. sent me an old used, but otherwise IDENTICAL
> (which was very handy) pump for the Gaggia for a pittance over shipping
> costs. Randy gave me the OHM meter suggestions. Others gave me the GFI
> suggestion. In the end, I managed to fix my Gaggia Baby (pump and power
> button) for very little. (I also learned, though the power button breaking,
> that I'd prefer rocker switches to push buttons.) While I had the top off,
> I insulated the boiler and got to know the internals. I'm a big fan -- what
> an elegant design.
>
> So now I have the Gaggia up and running and my Giotto back working. I
> roasted up some nice Moka Kadir for until the Vivace Vita arrives.
>
> :)
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 12:56:56
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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> I'd like to know more about your roasting efforts . . . .
I've been using an I-Roast for a couple of years since moving up quickly
from a popper. (That latter made me nuts having to roast outside, having
chaff everywhere, having to carry a collander and backing sheet with me,
etc. and having small batches.)
The I-Roast rates a 10 out of 10 as a bona fide kitchen appliance. It has a
very small footprint, it is attractive, it cleans very easily (and the parts
are even dishwasher safe), and it takes up very little room on the counter
next to the stove, so I can move it under the stove fan and be roasting in a
few seconds.
But it only rates a 6 out of 10 or something like that for roasting. Very
little control, despite SO many roast profiles I've tried. Mine roasts too
quickly regardless of what I do.
Were I to do it again, I'd forego the $200 on the I-Roast and go straight
for a Gene Cafe, if I wanted a kitchen appliance, or if I lived in a place
with a bbq grill, I'd set up a rotisserie drum.
My roasts rarely approach the quality of the mail order places discussed
here. That said, they are far better than the two Las Vegas roasters I've
met and bought from.
C
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 21:19:28
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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Randy G. responds:
> many switches are so perversely designed and assembled
> that opening them showers theroom with little springs and
> things and yields little to no evidence of how they worked.
I don't know this particular switch, but I do know that Gaggia prefers
rocker switches, and I studied one of theirs before.
> the new switch is evidently different from the old one, and
> breaking apart, or even opening the new one would make little
> sense.
Judging from Cordo's report, the new switch's output terminals are the
same as the original's. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been so confident
about the first replacement attempt. I never suggested that he break or
open the replacement part. Please retract that part of your response.
> Why is testing for continuity of contacts with an ohm meter
> difficult or complicated?
I said it was too complicated, i.e. more complicated than necessary.
> At least to say, my approach sounded sensible when I typed it...
It still does ... my point is that the old switch can be analyzed to
discover how it worked, and that this information should quickly lead
to a solution. There's no need to understand the entire circuit, just
the part that's changing.
More bluntly, his old switch is broken, so he has nothing to lose by
trying to dissect it. The threat of spring showers shouldn't faze him.
Felix
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 21:26:30
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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Thanks guys. I borrowed an Ohm meter and was about to return that.
My old switch is broken in that you have to hold it manually to get it to
engage the power -- once you let up on it (it's a push button switch, not a
rocker) it goes out. So I could test the pump Dave sent me (which works
great, thanks!).
So I think I get it. I use the ohm meter to see which two terminals "go
together" (i.e. create a current) when I have the switch pressed in. I
already tested the new power button: out of the 4 terminals, they "go
together" in vertical columns. I predict the old button will go together in
horizontal columns or something. Am I getting it?
C
"Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1152332368.842096.27510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Randy G. responds:
>> many switches are so perversely designed and assembled
>> that opening them showers theroom with little springs and
>> things and yields little to no evidence of how they worked.
>
> I don't know this particular switch, but I do know that Gaggia prefers
> rocker switches, and I studied one of theirs before.
>
>> the new switch is evidently different from the old one, and
>> breaking apart, or even opening the new one would make little
>> sense.
>
> Judging from Cordo's report, the new switch's output terminals are the
> same as the original's. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been so confident
> about the first replacement attempt. I never suggested that he break or
> open the replacement part. Please retract that part of your response.
>
>> Why is testing for continuity of contacts with an ohm meter
>> difficult or complicated?
>
> I said it was too complicated, i.e. more complicated than necessary.
>
>> At least to say, my approach sounded sensible when I typed it...
>
> It still does ... my point is that the old switch can be analyzed to
> discover how it worked, and that this information should quickly lead
> to a solution. There's no need to understand the entire circuit, just
> the part that's changing.
>
> More bluntly, his old switch is broken, so he has nothing to lose by
> trying to dissect it. The threat of spring showers shouldn't faze him.
>
>
> Felix
>
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 23:03:47
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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"Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com > wrote:
>Thanks guys. I borrowed an Ohm meter and was about to return that.
>
>My old switch is broken in that you have to hold it manually to get it to
>engage the power -- once you let up on it (it's a push button switch, not a
>rocker) it goes out. So I could test the pump Dave sent me (which works
>great, thanks!).
>
>So I think I get it. I use the ohm meter to see which two terminals "go
>together" (i.e. create a current) when I have the switch pressed in. I
>already tested the new power button: out of the 4 terminals, they "go
>together" in vertical columns. I predict the old button will go together in
>horizontal columns or something. Am I getting it?
>
YES! I think you understood exactly what I was saying! Excellent work!
YEAH! One in a row for me! I was understood! Now, please share the
secret of how you did it with my WIFE!
;-)
And, seriously, I believe that your prediction that the old switch is
opposite (switched contacts aligned horizontally instead of
vertically) is correct as well.
There are some switches that are difficult to take a part for a lot of
reasons. Some can be quite difficult and can easily lead to wounds
from slipped screwdrivers. Others will spit out their guts in your lap
when opened, particularly if they have failed. Yes, it can reveal how
they work, but an Ohm meter is a sure thing. It also verifies that the
replacement is good- Who knows? It could have been made by Lucas!
Doing a job well makes you feel good, particularly when you are alive
and can still count to 21 when you are finished! :-D
Randy "20.9825 (circumcised)" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 19:13:45
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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Randy G. suggests:
> Try this (the folloiwng is guess work):
> [...]
That's too complicated, if Cordo still has the old switch ... just
break that one open to determine how it connects the output terminals.
Then, use a continuity tester to determine how the new switch works.
Finally, translate the old connection scheme accordingly. For extra
credit, test using an outlet that's a bit more isolated than usual,
e.g. a bathroom GFI.
Felix
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 20:06:37
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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"Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Randy G. suggests:
>> Try this (the folloiwng is guess work):
>> [...]
>
>That's too complicated, if Cordo still has the old switch ... just
>break that one open to determine how it connects the output terminals.
>Then, use a continuity tester to determine how the new switch works.
>Finally, translate the old connection scheme accordingly. For extra
>credit, test using an outlet that's a bit more isolated than usual,
>e.g. a bathroom GFI.
>
The test with a GFCI is a good idea, but the Ohm meter is certainly
safe and easy.
Breaking apart the switch MAY work, and I do not know that one
specifically, but many switches are so perversely designed and
assembled that opening them showers theroom with little springs and
things and yields little to no evidence of how they worked. Besides,
the new switch is evidently different from the old one, and breaking
apart, or even opening the new one would make little sense.. Why is
testing for continuity of contacts with an ohm meter difficult or
complicated?
At least to say, my approach sounded sensible when I typed it...
Randy "?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 06:10:53
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
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Will (Omniryx@...) writes:
> Randy is exactly right. Felix to the contrary notwithstanding,
> do the meter thing BEFORE you bust the old switch open because
> once it comes apart and you can't tell head from toe then you
> can't go back and do it the meter way.
Randy's procedure included the power cord, i.e. much more of the
circuit than necessary. I agree that measuring the old switch was the
correct first step. I mistakenly assumed that Cordo hadn't done this,
thinking that we wouldn't be having this discussion if he had. I should
have mentioned that.
> Just humor us, Felix. It will take him only a few moments
> with a meter.
Now that we know that the old switch works well enough to support that
approach! If it had burned out like the one on my vacuum cleaner ...
I have to admit that I've never broken a switch open before. UPS did it
for me, and the puzzle was a little daunting at first, but it wasn't
that difficult. Don't assume that this sort of analysis is impossible,
or rarely fruitful, even if your personal experience has been negative.
Just keep trying ...
Felix
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 08:56:51
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
|
"Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Will (Omniryx@...) writes:
>> Randy is exactly right. Felix to the contrary notwithstanding,
>> do the meter thing BEFORE you bust the old switch open because
>> once it comes apart and you can't tell head from toe then you
>> can't go back and do it the meter way.
>
>Randy's procedure included the power cord, i.e. much more of the
>circuit than necessary.
>
I have been following Cordo's adventures, and decided that an ohm
meter was far safer than him attempoting to force a switch open which
can easily end up raking a screwdriver across a finger or hand.. BTDT.
It's safer and faster to use the ohm meter if one is at hand.
>Now that we know that the old switch works well enough to support that
>approach! If it had burned out like the one on my vacuum cleaner ...
>
>I have to admit that I've never broken a switch open before. UPS did it
>for me, and the puzzle was a little daunting at first, but it wasn't
>that difficult. Don't assume that this sort of analysis is impossible,
>or rarely fruitful, even if your personal experience has been negative.
>Just keep trying ...
>
I didn't know that Cordo's switch was a push button switch at first-
those can be even worse than a toggle. I have opened a few DPDT
switches of various designs and some of them are quite simple inside,
but some are rediculously complicated. I have successfully gotten a
few to work again by polishing contacts, but usually they end up in
pieces when opened. Cordo's experience with the teflon sleeve led me
to believe thatthe simple approach was a good path.
Randy "double insulated" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 01:06:28
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
|
Thanks to everyone. I got out the Ohm meter and discovered that the
contacts which make a circuit when the button is depressed are, indeed,
rotated on this new Gaggia Baby power button. I rotated the wires
appropriately, plugged the machine into a GFI (another great suggestion),
and powered on, and it worked, except that now the power button was always
lit, so I switched the wires on the left "circuit" and we are good to go!
Thanks to everyone. Dave B. sent me an old used, but otherwise IDENTICAL
(which was very handy) pump for the Gaggia for a pittance over shipping
costs. Randy gave me the OHM meter suggestions. Others gave me the GFI
suggestion. In the end, I managed to fix my Gaggia Baby (pump and power
button) for very little. (I also learned, though the power button breaking,
that I'd prefer rocker switches to push buttons.) While I had the top off,
I insulated the boiler and got to know the internals. I'm a big fan -- what
an elegant design.
So now I have the Gaggia up and running and my Giotto back working. I
roasted up some nice Moka Kadir for until the Vivace Vita arrives.
:)
Cordo
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:k4lva21d5ltsn2n2ur43lbne34f081qht3@4ax.com...
> "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Will (Omniryx@...) writes:
>>> Randy is exactly right. Felix to the contrary notwithstanding,
>>> do the meter thing BEFORE you bust the old switch open because
>>> once it comes apart and you can't tell head from toe then you
>>> can't go back and do it the meter way.
>>
>>Randy's procedure included the power cord, i.e. much more of the
>>circuit than necessary.
>>
> I have been following Cordo's adventures, and decided that an ohm
> meter was far safer than him attempoting to force a switch open which
> can easily end up raking a screwdriver across a finger or hand.. BTDT.
> It's safer and faster to use the ohm meter if one is at hand.
>
>
>>Now that we know that the old switch works well enough to support that
>>approach! If it had burned out like the one on my vacuum cleaner ...
>>
>>I have to admit that I've never broken a switch open before. UPS did it
>>for me, and the puzzle was a little daunting at first, but it wasn't
>>that difficult. Don't assume that this sort of analysis is impossible,
>>or rarely fruitful, even if your personal experience has been negative.
>>Just keep trying ...
>>
> I didn't know that Cordo's switch was a push button switch at first-
> those can be even worse than a toggle. I have opened a few DPDT
> switches of various designs and some of them are quite simple inside,
> but some are rediculously complicated. I have successfully gotten a
> few to work again by polishing contacts, but usually they end up in
> pieces when opened. Cordo's experience with the teflon sleeve led me
> to believe thatthe simple approach was a good path.
>
>
> Randy "double insulated" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 05:12:48
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
|
Randy G. wrote:
> There are some switches that are difficult to take a part for a lot of
> reasons. Some can be quite difficult and can easily lead to wounds
> from slipped screwdrivers. Others will spit out their guts in your lap
> when opened, particularly if they have failed. Yes, it can reveal how
> they work, but an Ohm meter is a sure thing. It also verifies that the
> replacement is good- Who knows? It could have been made by Lucas!
Randy is exactly right. Felix to the contrary notwithstanding, do the
meter thing BEFORE you bust the old switch open because once it comes
apart and you can't tell head from toe then you can't go back and do it
the meter way.
Just humor us, Felix. It will take him only a few moments with a
meter.
Will
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 21:57:09
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me how the Gaggia Baby power button is wired up?
|
Cordo writes:
> (it's a push button switch, not a rocker)
Ugh, serves me right.
> So I think I get it. I use the ohm meter to see which two
> terminals "go together" (i.e. create a current) when I have
> the switch pressed in. I already tested the new power button:
> out of the 4 terminals, they "go together" in vertical columns.
> I predict the old button will go together in horizontal columns
> or something. Am I getting it?
I think so ... except the switch doesn't create a current. It merely
allows current to flow through it. The meter isn't entirely passive.
If you can pull a shot with the replacement pump and old switch, then
you've confirmed that the problem is due to a difference in switch
design, and the meter should help you discover how to compensate.
You're getting warmer :-)
Felix
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