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Main
Date: 24 Jun 2006 23:59:03
From: John Redmond
Subject: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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See http://www.maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?rasmus40/category/ALL
This is not spam. I have nothing to do with it.
--
John Redmond
Discover CoffeeGrail.com!
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 06:56:33
From: Nick Cho
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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John Redmond wrote:
> See http://www.maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?rasmus40/category/ALL
>
FYI...
The shops is/was called, "Sirius Coffee," and is located right next to
the University of DC campus on Connecticut Avenue NW. It was owned by
Andrew Frank, whose erstwhile claim-to-fame was that he (told me that
he) invented the Frappuccino, back during his days at The Coffee
Connection in Cambridge, Mass (which a lot of folks should recognize as
George Howell's old gig).
He (Andrew) also owned the coffeeshop at Politics and Prose up the
street, which was where Eileen Hassi, co-owner of Ritual Coffee
Roasters in San Francisco, worked for a while back-in-the-day.
Anyway, Andrew's a really nice guy, and I wish him and the staff the
best.
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 05:46:18
From: daveb
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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most probably a victim of bad management and / or bad location choice.
Dave
83 pids to date
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> yEnc Man wrote:
>
> . Seeing a liquidation like this somehow seems
>
> Tragic to see anyone's dreams end in a liquidation auction. Another
> victim of Star*ucks?
>
> Will
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 05:20:19
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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yEnc Man wrote:
. Seeing a liquidation like this somehow seems
Tragic to see anyone's dreams end in a liquidation auction. Another
victim of Star*ucks?
Will
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 06:40:48
From: yEnc Man
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151238019.379466.132120@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> yEnc Man wrote:
>
> . Seeing a liquidation like this somehow seems
>
> Tragic to see anyone's dreams end in a liquidation auction. Another
> victim of Star*ucks?
It may be counter intuitive but I actually *credit* Starbucks with the
relative explosion of little independent and small chain coffee shops across
much of America. Before Starbucks, I didn't come across too many espresso
cafes in my travels. I think the massive push by Starbucks helped to train a
whole new era of consumers and taught them that it was OK to pay 3 bucks+
for a bit of coffee and steamed milk. All in all, that's a good thing.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 12:12:39
From: notbob
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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On 2006-06-26, yEnc Man <yencman@nothotmail.com > wrote:
> whole new era of consumers and taught them that it was OK to pay 3 bucks+
> for a bit of coffee and steamed milk. All in all, that's a good thing.
...if you're a dairy farmer.
Have you ever asked for a double espresso at Starbucks? The look on
the face of the person is priceless. Kind of a dumbfounded double
take. "Did he say what I think he said?" There's always a second or
two to let it sink in, then slow realization and acceptance, then
slowly turn away to the task so as to not let on. That's the one's
with some semblance of duty. For newbies, it's more candid. "A
what?" As for an actual shot, no Starbucks I've ever tried can make
one. My home shots, even on my worst day, are orders of magnitude
above anything Starbucks, be it LM or superauto, has ever provided.
But, I will agree the scene may be changing. After two years of no
real coffee, I returned to noticed things have improved. We got a new
Peet's coffee right around the corner. Brand new LM's. I was amazed
to discover these folks can pull good shots almost 100% of the time.
This even more remarkable in light of the fact Peet's coffee sucks so
bad, I'm surprised illegal aliens jumping the fence don't suddenly find
themselves in Canada. Make *$ beans taste almost palatable. This has
to be attributed to a new awareness and conscientiousness on the part
of new baristas.
Is this because of Starbucks? Maybe, but only in an offhand sort of
way. Certainly, they've made the drink more familiar to the public by
basing much of their product line on it. But, contribute to the
actual improvement of the quality of espresso? I'd have to say no.
If anything, they've made it worse. Superautos all around. Can't
allow anything so elusive as skill to enter into it. Burger flippers
at the ready, sir!
nb
nb
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 17:29:08
From: Brewer Bob
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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notbob wrote:
>On 2006-06-26, yEnc Man <yencman@nothotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>whole new era of consumers and taught them that it was OK to pay 3 bucks+
>>for a bit of coffee and steamed milk. All in all, that's a good thing.
>>
>>
>
>...if you're a dairy farmer.
>
>Have you ever asked for a double espresso at Starbucks? The look on
>the face of the person is priceless. Kind of a dumbfounded double
>take. "Did he say what I think he said?" There's always a second or
>two to let it sink in, then slow realization and acceptance, then
>slowly turn away to the task so as to not let on. That's the one's
>with some semblance of duty. For newbies, it's more candid. "A
>what?" As for an actual shot, no Starbucks I've ever tried can make
>one. My home shots, even on my worst day, are orders of magnitude
>above anything Starbucks, be it LM or superauto, has ever provided.
>
>But, I will agree the scene may be changing. After two years of no
>real coffee, I returned to noticed things have improved. We got a new
>Peet's coffee right around the corner. Brand new LM's. I was amazed
>to discover these folks can pull good shots almost 100% of the time.
>This even more remarkable in light of the fact Peet's coffee sucks so
>bad, I'm surprised illegal aliens jumping the fence don't suddenly find
>themselves in Canada. Make *$ beans taste almost palatable. This has
>to be attributed to a new awareness and conscientiousness on the part
>of new baristas.
>
>Is this because of Starbucks? Maybe, but only in an offhand sort of
>way. Certainly, they've made the drink more familiar to the public by
>basing much of their product line on it. But, contribute to the
>actual improvement of the quality of espresso? I'd have to say no.
>If anything, they've made it worse. Superautos all around. Can't
>allow anything so elusive as skill to enter into it. Burger flippers
>at the ready, sir!
>
>nb
>
>nb
>
>
I think it has more to do with the Super Auto machines than the
"Baristas". Auto dose, auto tamp, auto pull, auto clean. All their
Baristas name are probably "Otto" ;)
Brewer Bob
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 17:39:17
From: yEnc Man
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:wfSdndrH6vkaiD3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> On 2006-06-26, yEnc Man <yencman@nothotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> whole new era of consumers and taught them that it was OK to pay 3 bucks+
>> for a bit of coffee and steamed milk. All in all, that's a good thing.
>
> ...if you're a dairy farmer.
So, you don't think the proliferation of small chains and mom-n-pop shops
that have sprung up in Starbucks wake is a good thing? Where there was no
real market before, now there is one.
> But, contribute to the
> actual improvement of the quality of espresso? I'd have to say no.
I don't think I tried to make that argument. In fact, I know I didn't.
> If anything, they've made it worse. Superautos all around. Can't
> allow anything so elusive as skill to enter into it.
In other words, Starbucks created a market and left plenty of room in it for
proprietors dedicated to better quality for the customers that demand it.
Again, a good thing.
I know it's not popular to not despise Starbucks here, and I used to be one
of the people that did despise them, but over the last couple of years I've
had a real change of heart where Starbucks is concerned. I listened to the
arguments that Starbucks had made great inroads in training consumers to be
open to the idea of 3 bucks+ for a bit of coffee and milk and that they had
inspired people to open coffee shops where none had existed before. In the
end, those arguments made sense and I changed my mind. I think the best
thing is to embrace them for what they are and then fill the niche in areas
where they are found wanting.
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 03:40:01
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:39:17 GMT, "yEnc Man" <yencman@nothotmail.com >
wrote:
>So, you don't think the proliferation of small chains and mom-n-pop shops
>that have sprung up in Starbucks wake is a good thing? Where there was no
>real market before, now there is one.
>
the "specialty" market was developing just fine before starbucks'
expanded.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 23:16:39
From: notbob
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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On 2006-06-27, Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
> the "specialty" market was developing just fine before starbucks'
> expanded.
I agree, Barry. I stumbled onto good coffee long before I ever heard
of Starbucks.
Not all Cost Plus stores had them, but those that did were pioneers of
the emerging specialty coffee market. I discovered our Cost Plus
store in the mid-80s. Ours had a long coffee bean counter that looked
for all the World like a cafeteria steam table, each bain marie-like
tray full of a different varietal. Even the most exotic blends were
going for as little as $7lb. Ours had about a dozen different
varietals from all over the World. They were, for the most part, very
fresh. Columbian was always gone by the middle of the week. CP also
had newfangled brewing exotica like the baffling French press.
This shouldn't be surprising. Whirly grinders were already commonly
available by this time. I was joyfully whirly grinding African blends
into a Melita dripper by '86-87. Star who?
nb
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 22:16:50
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:d9SdnRsr-ry6LD3ZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> On 2006-06-27, Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com> wrote:
>
> > the "specialty" market was developing just fine before starbucks'
> > expanded.
>
> I agree, Barry. I stumbled onto good coffee long before I ever heard
> of Starbucks.
>
So true.
I was only just getting the taste back in the mid eighties. Doing a little
research I bought the1982 edition of the Shapira brothers' Book of Coffee
and Tea. and Starbucks was listed as a serious about their coffee in the
shopping guide at the back. The seemed to have 5 stores mostly in Seattle
then. Jerry Baldwin is quoted "We're the only people in Seattle willing to
go to the trouble to do the whole thing correctly"
In 1989 while searching out a blues roots pianist in Chicago I stumbled on a
Starbucks and had a cup that I don't recall the quality of.
In the same book they mentioned the Pannikin (started 1967) at 1296
Prospect in La Jolla but by the time I arrived looking for it it had been
gone for several years from that location.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 13:13:11
From: notbob
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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On 2006-06-26, yEnc Man <yencman@nothotmail.com > wrote:
> arguments that Starbucks had made great inroads in training consumers to be
.....consumers.
I think the American public has had lifetime of that sort of training.
If anything, we need a healty dose of deprogramming.
nb
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 07:25:58
From: yEnc Man
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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"John Redmond" <jredmond@nospam.keystoneisit.com > wrote in message
news:Xns97ECCB4AFF058barking@199.45.49.11...
> See http://www.maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?rasmus40/category/ALL
>
> This is not spam. I have nothing to do with it.
I wonder what the statistics are on the ratio of independent coffee houses
that open to those that close. Seeing a liquidation like this somehow seems
sad. Even so, if I were closer to DC, I might be inclined to bid.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 05:02:02
From: daveb
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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EXACTLY!
any GOOD place, WELL run, should be able to compete with a Starbucks,
even next door! (not that a landlord would do that).
It's all good.
yEnc Man wrote:
> <Omniryx@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151238019.379466.132120@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > yEnc Man wrote:
> >
> > . Seeing a liquidation like this somehow seems
> >
> > Tragic to see anyone's dreams end in a liquidation auction. Another
> > victim of Star*ucks?
>
>
> It may be counter intuitive but I actually *credit* Starbucks with the
> relative explosion of little independent and small chain coffee shops across
> much of America. Before Starbucks, I didn't come across too many espresso
> cafes in my travels. I think the massive push by Starbucks helped to train a
> whole new era of consumers and taught them that it was OK to pay 3 bucks+
> for a bit of coffee and steamed milk. All in all, that's a good thing.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 15:23:53
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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On 26 Jun 2006 05:02:02 -0700, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
>any GOOD place, WELL run, should be able to compete with a Starbucks,
>even next door! (not that a landlord would do that).
yes, a landlord would do that.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 14:00:53
From: daveb
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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I was at the SCAA convention in Charlotte a day before the show floor
opened.
In an amazing irony, surrounded as I was by hundreds of espresso
machines, and the US barista championships, and THOUSANDS of coffee
people, the ONLY place I could get an espresso before the main floor
opened-- at ANY PRICE -- was at the starbucks kiosk on the ground
floor.
Why?
Dave "tnyuftj6h5ebvychyq" b
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> notbob wrote:
> > Have you ever asked for a double espresso at Starbucks? The look on
> > the face of the person is priceless. Kind of a dumbfounded double
> > take. "Did he say what I think he said?" There's always a second or
> > two to let it sink in, then slow realization and acceptance, then
> > slowly turn away to the task so as to not let on. That's the one's
> > with some semblance of duty. For newbies, it's more candid. "A
> > what?"
>
>
> I shared on C'geeks a close parallel to this story. Some weeks ago, in
> a moment of desperation, I went into a Star*ucks and asked for a double
> espresso. After asking me twice to repeat the order, the young lady
> looked at me with round, incredulous eyes and asked, "Just the coffee?
> By itself?"
>
> She pulled it by hand and it wasn't as awful as it could have been.
>
> Starby does a nice job on their cold coffee-flavored milk drinks. Very
> refreshing on a sweltering Florida day when lunch got lost along the
> way. I dislike them for their business practices, not their coffee
> which, as others have pointed out, has done much to create interest in
> speciality coffee in the US.
>
> Will
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 03:42:37
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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On 26 Jun 2006 14:00:53 -0700, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
>In an amazing irony, surrounded as I was by hundreds of espresso
>machines, and the US barista championships, and THOUSANDS of coffee
>people, the ONLY place I could get an espresso before the main floor
>opened-- at ANY PRICE -- was at the starbucks kiosk on the ground
>floor.
at least when the floor opened there were many places to get very good
espresso shots.
it wasn't always like that...
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 13:46:34
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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notbob wrote:
> Have you ever asked for a double espresso at Starbucks? The look on
> the face of the person is priceless. Kind of a dumbfounded double
> take. "Did he say what I think he said?" There's always a second or
> two to let it sink in, then slow realization and acceptance, then
> slowly turn away to the task so as to not let on. That's the one's
> with some semblance of duty. For newbies, it's more candid. "A
> what?"
I shared on C'geeks a close parallel to this story. Some weeks ago, in
a moment of desperation, I went into a Star*ucks and asked for a double
espresso. After asking me twice to repeat the order, the young lady
looked at me with round, incredulous eyes and asked, "Just the coffee?
By itself?"
She pulled it by hand and it wasn't as awful as it could have been.
Starby does a nice job on their cold coffee-flavored milk drinks. Very
refreshing on a sweltering Florida day when lunch got lost along the
way. I dislike them for their business practices, not their coffee
which, as others have pointed out, has done much to create interest in
speciality coffee in the US.
Will
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 20:50:16
From: Mud Pup
Subject: Re: DC coffeehouse liquidation
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Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I shared on C'geeks a close parallel to this story. Some weeks ago, in
> a moment of desperation, I went into a Star*ucks and asked for a double
> espresso. After asking me twice to repeat the order, the young lady
> looked at me with round, incredulous eyes and asked, "Just the coffee?
> By itself?"
At least she double-checked. Whenever I say, "Dopio,"
they hear, "Machiato."
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