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Main
Date: 22 Jun 2006 05:01:32
From: Cordovero
Subject: Did I break my water-level probe?
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I was doing some maintenance on my Giotto, and I thought I'd pull out the
water level probe from the boiler and wipe it off and descale it in addition
to everything else I was doing. I didn't unscrew anything -- I just pulled
upwards on the metal probe until it came out. Well, when I went to put it
back in, it gave the usual smooth-resistance going in until the last inch,
when all resistance was gone. This can't be right. It now goes in and out
with no resistance whatsoever, so I figure if I turned on the machine, the
boiler pressure will just push it out now.
What happened? Was there some piece that has dropped into the boiler?
Anything I can do?
Cordo
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 22:10:11
From: Paul Pratt
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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Cordovero wrote:
> I was doing some maintenance on my Giotto, and I thought I'd pull out the
> water level probe from the boiler and wipe it off and descale it in addition
> to everything else I was doing. I didn't unscrew anything -- I just pulled
> upwards on the metal probe until it came out. Well, when I went to put it
> back in, it gave the usual smooth-resistance going in until the last inch,
> when all resistance was gone. This can't be right. It now goes in and out
> with no resistance whatsoever, so I figure if I turned on the machine, the
> boiler pressure will just push it out now.
>
> What happened? Was there some piece that has dropped into the boiler?
> Anything I can do?
>
> Cordo
You just need to tighten it up that's all. The bit you need to tighten
needs a 12mm spanner.
Paul
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 05:51:02
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Thanks for trying to help me. Maybe I'm just in a panic, but I can't find
anything to tighten.
I've posted a pic in alt.binaries.coffee. The white sleeve that goes inside
the tightened part is just simply too roomy. The metal probe rolls around
in it loosely. Why is the white sleeve have such a large circumference? Or
am I missing a piece?
C
"Paul Pratt" <paul@just-java.com > wrote in message
news:1150953011.689751.201490@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Cordovero wrote:
>> I was doing some maintenance on my Giotto, and I thought I'd pull out the
>> water level probe from the boiler and wipe it off and descale it in
>> addition
>> to everything else I was doing. I didn't unscrew anything -- I just
>> pulled
>> upwards on the metal probe until it came out. Well, when I went to put
>> it
>> back in, it gave the usual smooth-resistance going in until the last
>> inch,
>> when all resistance was gone. This can't be right. It now goes in and
>> out
>> with no resistance whatsoever, so I figure if I turned on the machine,
>> the
>> boiler pressure will just push it out now.
>>
>> What happened? Was there some piece that has dropped into the boiler?
>> Anything I can do?
>>
>> Cordo
>
> You just need to tighten it up that's all. The bit you need to tighten
> needs a 12mm spanner.
>
> Paul
>
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 14:58:05
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:51:02 GMT, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>Thanks for trying to help me. Maybe I'm just in a panic, but I can't find
>anything to tighten.
>
the hex bit where your fingers are in the photo is the bit you need to
tighten. it will cause the teflon to deform around the sleeve and make
a seal.
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 11:25:24
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:ntbl92tngcad557a8bn9vjs6oroinn2bvq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:51:02 GMT, "Cordovero"
> <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for trying to help me. Maybe I'm just in a panic, but I can't
> >find
> >anything to tighten.
> >
>
> the hex bit where your fingers are in the photo is the bit you need to
> tighten. it will cause the teflon to deform around the sleeve and make
> a seal.
>
That white sleeve is called a ferrule.
Craig.
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 19:27:37
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
I think the guy on coffeegeek is right: I see a thin plastic sleeve at the
bottom of the boiler using my flashlight. I feel like I'm in Das Boot. How
the heck can I get it out of the boiler? Can I just replace it and spend
the next ten years boiling that part and drinking from it?
C
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 21:24:17
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>I think the guy on coffeegeek is right: I see a thin plastic sleeve at the
>bottom of the boiler using my flashlight. I feel like I'm in Das Boot. How
>the heck can I get it out of the boiler? Can I just replace it and spend
>the next ten years boiling that part and drinking from it?
>
You have probably never dropped a snap ring into a transmission... ;-)
Get a thin soda straw or flexible tube and attach it to a long hose
and literally suck it out! Really! Or some thing flexible tubing on a
large syringe. You can get syringes at a pharmacy- they sell them for
irrigation purposes.. No, not farming! ;-)
Randy "BTDT" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 04:38:58
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
I picked up a grabby snake and my next idea was a straw! Thanks for the
support. I'm feeling better about it! Gonna' tackle it tomorrow....
C
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:52rm92pnk2dbipsteitb6rl1u22gp3j12i@4ax.com...
> "Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
>>I think the guy on coffeegeek is right: I see a thin plastic sleeve at
>>the
>>bottom of the boiler using my flashlight. I feel like I'm in Das Boot.
>>How
>>the heck can I get it out of the boiler? Can I just replace it and spend
>>the next ten years boiling that part and drinking from it?
>>
>
> You have probably never dropped a snap ring into a transmission... ;-)
>
> Get a thin soda straw or flexible tube and attach it to a long hose
> and literally suck it out! Really! Or some thing flexible tubing on a
> large syringe. You can get syringes at a pharmacy- they sell them for
> irrigation purposes.. No, not farming! ;-)
>
>
> Randy "BTDT" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 03:32:42
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Add 1 paper clip to the contents of my boiler now.
C
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 07:41:46
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>Add 1 paper clip to the contents of my boiler now.
Nooooooooooo!
How did we get from grabby snake and straw to PAPER CLIP!?
At this rate, by the time we finish the boiler will be full of stuff..
I KNOW! Send a mongoose in there to get it! ;-)
A SMALL magnet on a string or epoxyed to a rod of some sort might help
get out the paper clip. WHatever you use next, get it long enough so
it won't fall in, or at least tie a piece of strong thread to it! as a
retrieval tool.
Now, this might seem too logical, but what about...."
-Remove all lose parts (drip tray, loove covers, etc.
-Turn the machine upside down.
-CAREFULLY prop it up on a couple of chairs in in the middle of a
dining table with an expansion leaf removed
-Put a large catch basin under the machine on the floor.
-Get a thin hose and pump water into the boiler to flush out the stuff
in there.
BUT NO MORE PAPER CLIPS!! ;-)
Starting a pool as to:
1) how many items end up inthe boiler
2) How many hours it tkaes for him to get the boiler removed from the
machine. ;-P~
Randy "where does THIS piece go?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 04:49:28
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
> How did we get from grabby snake and straw to PAPER CLIP!?
I needed something to snag it from the grabby snake. I was hooking it with
a paper clip all bent in weird directions to prevent it from falling in. It
fell in anyway.
Worked at it another hour. Drained the boiler. Turned it upside down.
Still working....
C
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 23:02:37
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:sBong.11772$o4.9107@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>> How did we get from grabby snake and straw to PAPER CLIP!?
>
> I needed something to snag it from the grabby snake. I was hooking it
> with a paper clip all bent in weird directions to prevent it from falling
> in. It fell in anyway.
>
> Worked at it another hour. Drained the boiler. Turned it upside down.
> Still working....
>
> C
>
You could always try this approach:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/kfoxfoie/Machineindumpster.jpg
ken
:-)
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 14:07:56
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
My guess - he did not own a grabby snake, tweezers or any of the other
mentioned tools. He DID own a paper clip. Geebus - at least use a
coathanger so it doesn't fall in.
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:dbjq92h1k8pcjcl7re11auhur9sjpvm54h@4ax.com...
>
> How did we get from grabby snake and straw to PAPER CLIP!?
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 16:54:01
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:JaCmg.9548$lf4.8467@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I think the guy on coffeegeek is right: I see a thin plastic sleeve at the
>bottom of the boiler using my flashlight. I feel like I'm in Das Boot.
>How the heck can I get it out of the boiler?
One way would be to disconnect everything, take the boiler out of the
machine and shake it upside down until the part falls out of one of the
holes. This would be a good time to descale. Some machines have a nice big
hole/removable endplate for the heating element but IIRC the Gitto boiler
does not - just a bunch of small ports, so it's not easy to get in there.
Can I just replace it and spend
> the next ten years boiling that part and drinking from it?
Yes as long as you never let the boiler run dry. If it does run dry and it's
touching the element it will burn up and create a smell that you'll never be
able to get rid off.
>
> C
>
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 21:24:04
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
It doesn't even have to run dry. Refill can agitate the boiler water
to the extent the the probe sheath can come in contact with the
element. Same result. It needs to come out of there. I don't know
giottos, but I bet I could get it out of there without removing the
boiler....al
>Yes as long as you never let the boiler run dry. If it does run dry and it's
>touching the element it will burn up and create a smell that you'll never be
>able to get rid off.
>
>>
>> C
>>
>
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 18:00:35
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Any ideas on how? Here's a picture of a Giotto boiler:
http://www.espressotec.com/images/equipment/ecm/1310MGiottoPre5.JPG
To give you an idea of scale, it's under 1 foot long - this is a lot more
petite than most of the machines you are used to working on.
"sprsso" <acritzer@cfl.rr.com > wrote in message
news:hc2m925gn0stcru9l8ft9dq0tvo0ha759d@4ax.com...
> It doesn't even have to run dry. Refill can agitate the boiler water
> to the extent the the probe sheath can come in contact with the
> element. Same result. It needs to come out of there. I don't know
> giottos, but I bet I could get it out of there without removing the
> boiler....al
>
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 16:16:06
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:sf-dneC_tY-ZjgbZnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Any ideas on how? Here's a picture of a Giotto boiler:
>
> http://www.espressotec.com/images/equipment/ecm/1310MGiottoPre5.JPG
>
> To give you an idea of scale, it's under 1 foot long - this is a lot more
> petite than most of the machines you are used to working on.
On the top left, if I am correct, is a pop valve. The water level probe
enters to the left side of it, presumably, although I've seen them before
(like on my machine) coming in through the side. Drain the boiler, remove
the probe, and remove the pop valve, since there would be no other plumbing
to worry about with the pop valve. I have never removed a pop valve,
although I do have a spare; if this is a bad idea, someone please state this
before Cordo tries it. I think the port would be large enough to work
through.
With a long pickup type instrument like a tweezers, or a combination of
wires, or whatever, try to snag the sheath and remove it. The probe port
could possibly be used with a bright LED flashlight to illuminate the work
area if it is possible to shine a light through it onto the sheath,
otherwise shine the light through the popvalve port. If the sheath is
inaccessible, there are ways you could get it to move around a little, like
introducing a little water and then draining it off through the boiler drain
(which I can't identify in this picture).
ken
>
>
> "sprsso" <acritzer@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:hc2m925gn0stcru9l8ft9dq0tvo0ha759d@4ax.com...
>> It doesn't even have to run dry. Refill can agitate the boiler water
>> to the extent the the probe sheath can come in contact with the
>> element. Same result. It needs to come out of there. I don't know
>> giottos, but I bet I could get it out of there without removing the
>> boiler....al
>>
>
>
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 00:24:28
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
I am grateful for all of the suggestions. I got out my Gaggia Baby from the
garage and it the pump won't prime (no suction whatsoever, despite the loud
pump noises) so I descended into a pretty awful funk. Went from two
machines to zero in a matter of hours. Haven't felt this bad since I got a
broken machine in the mail some years back.
I'm going to go out later to some stores and try to find some extra long
tweezers or at least some stiff wire. Wish me luck.
C
"Ken Fox" <morceaudemerdeThisMerdeGoes@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:4g0j50F1kffq5U1@individual.net...
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:sf-dneC_tY-ZjgbZnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Any ideas on how? Here's a picture of a Giotto boiler:
>>
>> http://www.espressotec.com/images/equipment/ecm/1310MGiottoPre5.JPG
>>
>> To give you an idea of scale, it's under 1 foot long - this is a lot more
>> petite than most of the machines you are used to working on.
>
>
> On the top left, if I am correct, is a pop valve. The water level probe
> enters to the left side of it, presumably, although I've seen them before
> (like on my machine) coming in through the side. Drain the boiler, remove
> the probe, and remove the pop valve, since there would be no other
> plumbing to worry about with the pop valve. I have never removed a pop
> valve, although I do have a spare; if this is a bad idea, someone please
> state this before Cordo tries it. I think the port would be large enough
> to work through.
>
> With a long pickup type instrument like a tweezers, or a combination of
> wires, or whatever, try to snag the sheath and remove it. The probe port
> could possibly be used with a bright LED flashlight to illuminate the work
> area if it is possible to shine a light through it onto the sheath,
> otherwise shine the light through the popvalve port. If the sheath is
> inaccessible, there are ways you could get it to move around a little,
> like introducing a little water and then draining it off through the
> boiler drain (which I can't identify in this picture).
>
> ken
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> "sprsso" <acritzer@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:hc2m925gn0stcru9l8ft9dq0tvo0ha759d@4ax.com...
>>> It doesn't even have to run dry. Refill can agitate the boiler water
>>> to the extent the the probe sheath can come in contact with the
>>> element. Same result. It needs to come out of there. I don't know
>>> giottos, but I bet I could get it out of there without removing the
>>> boiler....al
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 20:58:31
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:0xGmg.742$ii.210@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I am grateful for all of the suggestions. I got out my Gaggia Baby from
>the garage and it the pump won't prime (no suction whatsoever, despite the
>loud pump noises) so I descended into a pretty awful funk. Went from two
>machines to zero in a matter of hours. Haven't felt this bad since I got a
>broken machine in the mail some years back.
>
> I'm going to go out later to some stores and try to find some extra long
> tweezers or at least some stiff wire. Wish me luck.
>
> C
>
I'm sure it feels terrible and I've been in fairly similar territory, when
I've been stupid enough to try working on both of my machines at the same
time. Trust me, you will sort it all out. Everytime I've worked on my
machines I've learned something, and it is funny how that knowledge ends up
being transferable to other situations and even to other machines. Even
unrelated stuff inspires confidence. Last week, I pulled the heat exchanger
on my older machine, which was the first time I really got into one of my
machine's boilers, not counting innocuous stuff like putting in probes and
opening boiler drains. Now that I've done that, I wouldn't give it a second
thought if I had to replace an element, but 2 weeks ago it would have scared
the sh*t out of me.
ken
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 00:32:46
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
> Haven't felt this bad since I got a
> broken machine in the mail some years back.
We'll all put a cyber-shot for you and hope you're back in business
ASAP.
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 22:15:46
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Jack,
Thanks for the picture. It looks like the biggest and most
conveniently located orifice would be the high pressure relief valve.
I have dental and electronic probes that would position the sheath for
removal and a long hemostat would do the rest. I know most techs
don't carry these, but they have proved invaluable to me.....al
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:00:35 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>Any ideas on how? Here's a picture of a Giotto boiler:
>
>http://www.espressotec.com/images/equipment/ecm/1310MGiottoPre5.JPG
>
>To give you an idea of scale, it's under 1 foot long - this is a lot more
>petite than most of the machines you are used to working on.
>
>
>"sprsso" <acritzer@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:hc2m925gn0stcru9l8ft9dq0tvo0ha759d@4ax.com...
>> It doesn't even have to run dry. Refill can agitate the boiler water
>> to the extent the the probe sheath can come in contact with the
>> element. Same result. It needs to come out of there. I don't know
>> giottos, but I bet I could get it out of there without removing the
>> boiler....al
>>
>
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:01:16
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:15:46 GMT, sprsso <acritzer@cfl.rr.com > wrote:
>Jack,
> Thanks for the picture. It looks like the biggest and most
>conveniently located orifice would be the high pressure relief valve.
>I have dental and electronic probes that would position the sheath for
>removal and a long hemostat would do the rest. I know most techs
>don't carry these, but they have proved invaluable to me.....al
>
those long snake grabby things are very good for that, too.
(eg. mcmaster # 5681A14)
--barry fcffd4r5qrabvxvbv s S sx <-- maddie... "there, that's my
name!"
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 19:59:27
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:27:37 GMT, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>I think the guy on coffeegeek is right: I see a thin plastic sleeve at the
>bottom of the boiler using my flashlight. I feel like I'm in Das Boot. How
>the heck can I get it out of the boiler? Can I just replace it and spend
>the next ten years boiling that part and drinking from it?
>
>C
>
Assuming it has a hole in the middle and will fit through the hole:
Get a long thin piece of wire and put a loop in the end and twist it
back on itself to make an eye. Angle the eye so you can feed it
through the hole.
Get another long piece of wire and make a 'hook' in the end.
Here's the tricky part :
Feed the eye through the hole, then catch the eye with the hook and
pull the eye back out the hole.
Now pull the piece through...
Good Luck
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 19:02:36
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Barry,
I just can't figure out how to do this. I've tried every permutation I can
think of. When I screw the nut into the boiler, nothing is deforming.
I've posted another pic on alt.binaries.coffee, showing the parts I have
with handwritten letters next to them.
How do A, B [=teflon sleeve], and C [= the screw into the boiler] fit
together? Just screwing them in, nothing is deforming, so the white sleeve
is just simply too roomy. And I found D on the bottom of the Giotto. I
can't say whether it goes with these or whether it's been there some time.
A post on coffeegeek suggests I pushed into the boiler (lost forever?) an
inner sleeve to the teflon sleeve, and so I'm screwed.
C
"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:ntbl92tngcad557a8bn9vjs6oroinn2bvq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:51:02 GMT, "Cordovero"
> <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for trying to help me. Maybe I'm just in a panic, but I can't
> >find
> >anything to tighten.
> >
>
> the hex bit where your fingers are in the photo is the bit you need to
> tighten. it will cause the teflon to deform around the sleeve and make
> a seal.
>
|
| |
Date: 24 Jun 2006 09:42:49
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Nothing wrong with a little IRON supplement in your diet!
Dave "dxr54wvy6c53eybsde4" b
Cordovero wrote:
> Add 1 paper clip to the contents of my boiler now.
>
> C
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 05:29:08
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
Outch, Ken. What did that poor baby do to piss you off? :)
Will
Ken Fox wrote:
> "Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote in message
> news:sBong.11772$o4.9107@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> >> How did we get from grabby snake and straw to PAPER CLIP!?
> >
> > I needed something to snag it from the grabby snake. I was hooking it
> > with a paper clip all bent in weird directions to prevent it from falling
> > in. It fell in anyway.
> >
> > Worked at it another hour. Drained the boiler. Turned it upside down.
> > Still working....
> >
> > C
> >
>
> You could always try this approach:
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/kfoxfoie/Machineindumpster.jpg
>
> ken
> :-)
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 08:29:59
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
not my machine; it was sold on ebay by a friend and that is what the
purchaser did with it--
ken
<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151238548.576078.172640@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Outch, Ken. What did that poor baby do to piss you off? :)
>
> Will
>
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:47:17
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
I was just looking through my oddest tools and found an olive plucker,
available at any kitchen supply store. Looks like it might be long
enough to reach the sheath....al
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 04:32:32
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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Paper clip is out, but I've lost the teflon sleeve. I was trying to lift it
out, it fell back down, and I can't find it anywhere, despite shaking the
machine in every possible direction. (I don't think it's caught in the
heating element, as I already cleared it from there once.)
Ugh!
C
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 21:38:01
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>Paper clip is out, but I've lost the teflon sleeve. I was trying to lift it
>out, it fell back down, and I can't find it anywhere, despite shaking the
>machine in every possible direction. (I don't think it's caught in the
>heating element, as I already cleared it from there once.)
>
If there is another opening in the boiler that is asccessible, try
opeining that and use a compressor to try to blow the sleeve out the
water level hole.
Randy "short answers tonight" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 23:05:27
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:br14a2l4r4i15chl0gcv44tt97v7np7keq@4ax.com...
> "Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
>>Paper clip is out, but I've lost the teflon sleeve. I was trying to lift
>>it
>>out, it fell back down, and I can't find it anywhere, despite shaking the
>>machine in every possible direction. (I don't think it's caught in the
>>heating element, as I already cleared it from there once.)
>>
>
> If there is another opening in the boiler that is asccessible, try
> opeining that and use a compressor to try to blow the sleeve out the
> water level hole.
>
>
> Randy "short answers tonight" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
I'm sure this is going to conflict with some other advice you've had (it is
a long thread) but Teflon is supposed to be inert, it is rated to much
higher temperatures than you will find inside of an espresso machine boiler,
and as far as I know it is non-conductive. After all, these are the
qualities that have made Teflon a very widely used material. Your original
thought, which was to just leave the sleeve in there and get another one,
may have been the best thought so far. Unless the sleeve has any other
materials on it, such as metal, I don't understand how this could cause your
heating element to burn out or cause other catastrophic failure.
My suggestion is that you call the importer for this machine; there must be
SOMEONE there in the technical department you can speak with. From your
description of how this happened, it sounds to me like you are probably not
the first person who has ever had this happen. It could well be that the
sleeve is made of the materials that it is made of because they know that
occasionally one will be lost in the boiler that can't be easily retrieved.
It might well turn out that the solution is to simply forget about this
small piece of teflon and to simply buy another as a replacement part, put
the probe back in, and go about your business.
ken
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 07:48:27
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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Ken Fox wrote:
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > I think you're placing too much faith in the idea that the local
> > temperature at the heating element surface can't exceed the boiling
> > temperature. A bit away, sure, but if the Teflon is actually in
> > contact?
> >
> > Best,
> > David "In theory, there is no difference between theory and
> > practice. In practice, there is." Lewis
> >
>
> David,
>
> If the element is surrounded in water I don't see how it could get up in
> temperature to the point where Teflon has problems, which I believe is in
> the range of 500F. But I'd just ask the importer or a good tech at a dealer
> for the specific machine who is familiar with these specific parts.
I don't see how it could exceed 500F either, but in a long career as an
engineer I've been surprised many times. Since it's not me taking the
bet, and the consequences of being wrong would be unpleasant and
expensive, this is one of the few times you're going to hear me say I
think conservatism is a good idea.
Best,
David "there, I said it" Lewis
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 16:47:10
From: Paul Sack
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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"DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com > writes:
> Ken Fox wrote:
> > If the element is surrounded in water I don't see how it could get up in
> > temperature to the point where Teflon has problems, which I believe is in
> > the range of 500F.
> I don't see how it could exceed 500F either, but in a long career as an
> engineer I've been surprised many times.
Drain your boiler, close the valve on the water line, and now try :)
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 13:58:19
From: Cordo
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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Thread read and appreciated. I'll keep y'all posted,
C
"DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1151506107.228812.18790@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ken Fox wrote:
>> > Hi Ken,
>> >
>> > I think you're placing too much faith in the idea that the local
>> > temperature at the heating element surface can't exceed the boiling
>> > temperature. A bit away, sure, but if the Teflon is actually in
>> > contact?
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > David "In theory, there is no difference between theory and
>> > practice. In practice, there is." Lewis
>> >
>>
>> David,
>>
>> If the element is surrounded in water I don't see how it could get up in
>> temperature to the point where Teflon has problems, which I believe is in
>> the range of 500F. But I'd just ask the importer or a good tech at a
>> dealer
>> for the specific machine who is familiar with these specific parts.
>
> I don't see how it could exceed 500F either, but in a long career as an
> engineer I've been surprised many times. Since it's not me taking the
> bet, and the consequences of being wrong would be unpleasant and
> expensive, this is one of the few times you're going to hear me say I
> think conservatism is a good idea.
>
> Best,
> David "there, I said it" Lewis
>
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 15:07:41
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"Cordo" <cordoveroRemoveThis@RemoveThisyahoo.com > wrote in message
news:e7uqhb$eii$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> Thread read and appreciated. I'll keep y'all posted,
>
> C
>
> "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:1151506107.228812.18790@x69g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Ken Fox wrote:
>>> > Hi Ken,
>>> >
>>> > I think you're placing too much faith in the idea that the local
>>> > temperature at the heating element surface can't exceed the boiling
>>> > temperature. A bit away, sure, but if the Teflon is actually in
>>> > contact?
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> > David "In theory, there is no difference between theory and
>>> > practice. In practice, there is." Lewis
>>> >
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> If the element is surrounded in water I don't see how it could get up in
>>> temperature to the point where Teflon has problems, which I believe is
>>> in
>>> the range of 500F. But I'd just ask the importer or a good tech at a
>>> dealer
>>> for the specific machine who is familiar with these specific parts.
>>
>> I don't see how it could exceed 500F either, but in a long career as an
>> engineer I've been surprised many times. Since it's not me taking the
>> bet, and the consequences of being wrong would be unpleasant and
>> expensive, this is one of the few times you're going to hear me say I
>> think conservatism is a good idea.
>>
>> Best,
>> David "there, I said it" Lewis
>>
>
>
I guess that just makes me a risk taker. Every mod I've done on my two
machines could have had disastrous consequences and both of them plus me are
all still around:-)
ken
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 01:33:31
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
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Ken Fox wrote:
> I'm sure this is going to conflict with some other advice you've had (it is
> a long thread) but Teflon is supposed to be inert, it is rated to much
> higher temperatures than you will find inside of an espresso machine boiler,
> and as far as I know it is non-conductive. After all, these are the
> qualities that have made Teflon a very widely used material. Your original
> thought, which was to just leave the sleeve in there and get another one,
> may have been the best thought so far. Unless the sleeve has any other
> materials on it, such as metal, I don't understand how this could cause your
> heating element to burn out or cause other catastrophic failure.
>
Hi Ken,
I think you're placing too much faith in the idea that the local
temperature at the heating element surface can't exceed the boiling
temperature. A bit away, sure, but if the Teflon is actually in
contact?
Best,
David "In theory, there is no difference between theory and
practice. In practice, there is." Lewis
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 08:01:21
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Did I break my water-level probe?
|
"DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1151483611.308416.23850@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ken Fox wrote:
>
>> I'm sure this is going to conflict with some other advice you've had (it
>> is
>> a long thread) but Teflon is supposed to be inert, it is rated to much
>> higher temperatures than you will find inside of an espresso machine
>> boiler,
>> and as far as I know it is non-conductive. After all, these are the
>> qualities that have made Teflon a very widely used material. Your
>> original
>> thought, which was to just leave the sleeve in there and get another one,
>> may have been the best thought so far. Unless the sleeve has any other
>> materials on it, such as metal, I don't understand how this could cause
>> your
>> heating element to burn out or cause other catastrophic failure.
>>
> Hi Ken,
>
> I think you're placing too much faith in the idea that the local
> temperature at the heating element surface can't exceed the boiling
> temperature. A bit away, sure, but if the Teflon is actually in
> contact?
>
> Best,
> David "In theory, there is no difference between theory and
> practice. In practice, there is." Lewis
>
David,
If the element is surrounded in water I don't see how it could get up in
temperature to the point where Teflon has problems, which I believe is in
the range of 500F. But I'd just ask the importer or a good tech at a dealer
for the specific machine who is familiar with these specific parts.
ken
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