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Main
Date: 14 Aug 2006 08:00:49
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: E61 (isomac millenium) group seal leak?
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Hello all,
Long time, no see.
My 7-year-old Isomac Millenium is misbehaving, as of late. I always
run some water through the group before brewing, since the HE overheats
when it's sitting. Normally I get some gurgly, steamy water for a few
seconds, and after about 2 oz of water the flow is good. Lately, what
happens is there is a gigantic puff of steam, then nothing for about
10-15 seconds, then gurgling, steamy water for about 4 ounces or so.
After that, I can brew my shot, but the shot quality is not good. The
pre-infusion seems to take 20-25 seconds instead of the normal 10-12,
then when the shot starts it's very fast and not very thick, with poor
crema. If I increase the tamp or the fineness to try to improve the
shot, it doesn't seem to change things much, and if I decrease it to
try and get the preinfusion to be faster, it just makes the shot even
worse. My suspicion is that all the extra steam and bad flow is
causing channeling, then when the pressure finally builds up, the poor
extraction I'm noting.
Also, and this could be a false positive, it seems like water is
leaking from the 3-way into the drip tray. Not during the shot, as far
as I can tell, but after I run the group, water continues to drip for
much longer than I remember, even if the PF is not in the group (so
it's not due to backpressure). If I put the lever into the middle
position, I get some steam through the group. I haven't done anything
out of the ordinary to the machine lately, although I did just recently
replace the dispersion screen and gasket, and do a good backflush w/
purocafe. The problem seems to have gotten worse in the last day or
so, but not immediately following the backflush so I don't think that
it was the direct, immediate cause.
So what's going on? Originally I thought that I had the pressurestat
set a little too high causing the HE water to boil, becuase I do have
it higher than it should be since I replaced the pressurestat, but it's
not that high (top of cycle is about 1.6 bar, the original factory
setting was about 1.2 or 1.3. Would a bad seal of some sort cause the
HE to partially empty? And if so, would that increase the steam /
decrease the quality of the flow? And finally, is there a good thread
or site on disassembling the group if I need to replace the seals? The
only threads that I can find don't get into the details, and I hesitate
to do it solely from the exploded diagrams at espressoparts.com or such.
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 11:25:30
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: E61 (isomac millenium) group seal leak?
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Start by reducing your boiler pressure to about 1.3 bar. The extra temperature
could explain everything.
Also, if the check valve between HX and pump is leaking, it can let the HX boil
dry, producing similar results as you describe. But first, before you decide the
problem is an exotic one, try lowering your boiler pressure. Dan
> My 7-year-old Isomac Millenium is misbehaving, as of late. I always
> run some water through the group before brewing, since the HE overheats
> when it's sitting. Normally I get some gurgly, steamy water for a few
> seconds, and after about 2 oz of water the flow is good. Lately, what
> happens is there is a gigantic puff of steam, then nothing for about
> 10-15 seconds, then gurgling, steamy water for about 4 ounces or so.
> After that, I can brew my shot, but the shot quality is not good. The
> pre-infusion seems to take 20-25 seconds instead of the normal 10-12,
> then when the shot starts it's very fast and not very thick, with poor
> crema. If I increase the tamp or the fineness to try to improve the
> shot, it doesn't seem to change things much, and if I decrease it to
> try and get the preinfusion to be faster, it just makes the shot even
> worse. My suspicion is that all the extra steam and bad flow is
> causing channeling, then when the pressure finally builds up, the poor
> extraction I'm noting.
>
> Also, and this could be a false positive, it seems like water is
> leaking from the 3-way into the drip tray. Not during the shot, as far
> as I can tell, but after I run the group, water continues to drip for
> much longer than I remember, even if the PF is not in the group (so
> it's not due to backpressure). If I put the lever into the middle
> position, I get some steam through the group. I haven't done anything
> out of the ordinary to the machine lately, although I did just recently
> replace the dispersion screen and gasket, and do a good backflush w/
> purocafe. The problem seems to have gotten worse in the last day or
> so, but not immediately following the backflush so I don't think that
> it was the direct, immediate cause.
>
> So what's going on? Originally I thought that I had the pressurestat
> set a little too high causing the HE water to boil, becuase I do have
> it higher than it should be since I replaced the pressurestat, but it's
> not that high (top of cycle is about 1.6 bar, the original factory
> setting was about 1.2 or 1.3. Would a bad seal of some sort cause the
> HE to partially empty? And if so, would that increase the steam /
> decrease the quality of the flow? And finally, is there a good thread
> or site on disassembling the group if I need to replace the seals? The
> only threads that I can find don't get into the details, and I hesitate
> to do it solely from the exploded diagrams at espressoparts.com or such.
>
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 21:23:46
From: Danny
Subject: Re: E61 (isomac millenium) group seal leak?
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barooo@gmail.com wrote:
-snip-
> So what's going on? Originally I thought that I had the pressurestat
> set a little too high causing the HE water to boil, becuase I do have
> it higher than it should be since I replaced the pressurestat, but it's
> not that high (top of cycle is about 1.6 bar, the original factory
> setting was about 1.2 or 1.3. Would a bad seal of some sort cause the
> HE to partially empty? And if so, would that increase the steam /
> decrease the quality of the flow? And finally, is there a good thread
> or site on disassembling the group if I need to replace the seals? The
> only threads that I can find don't get into the details, and I hesitate
> to do it solely from the exploded diagrams at espressoparts.com or such.
>
As Dan said - 1.6 bar is far too high. 1.1 - 1.2 is fine and will
still allow good steaming.
--
Regards, Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 09:06:25
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: E61 (isomac millenium) group seal leak?
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Danny wrote:
> As Dan said - 1.6 bar is far too high. 1.1 - 1.2 is fine and will
> still allow good steaming.
OK... I lowered the pstat to top out at about 1.2. I knew 1.6 was too
high, but it didn't seem to be causing any issues once I bled off the
hot water until about a week ago (It's probably been at 1.5 or 1.6 for
about 6-8 months). Lowering the pressure made the water less gurgly
and steamy, but it hasn't fixed the problem. The HE seems to empty
itself through the 3-way into the drip tray; after about 45 seconds, no
water will come out through the group without running the pump for 5-10
seconds or so. If I prime the HE, then immediately clamp in the PF and
pull a shot, it sort of works although the shot takes about 20 seconds
to start dripping and has very poor crema. As soon as I turn off the
pump and open the 3 way, water starts coming out the bottom of the
group, and continues to do so even if there is no backpressure (the PF
comes out without a hiss or a sneeze). I think something finally let
go because this morning instead of a drip of water, it was almost as if
the pump was running after my shot finished.
So... I would assume that I need to replace some seals. Can anyone
tell me what I need to order, and maybe even point to disassembly
instructions? Is this DIY? Should I just order everything that looks
like a seal from the exploded E61 diagram?
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