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Date: 22 Jul 2006 16:09:49
From: Steve
Subject: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
Traditionally, those paper cups have been made with a non-renewable,
non-biodegradable petrochemical plastic coating. But all that could
end with the recent introduction of the new Ecotainer cup from Green
Mountain Coffee Roasters.
http://inhabitat.com/blog/2006/07/22/greening-your-coffee-habit-ecotainer-hot-beverage-cup/
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 19:11:00
From: Daco-Tyan
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Andy Schecter wrote:
> Andy Schecter wrote:
> > So the environmentally friendly thing to do is use one of those
> > biodegradable plastic cups, then toss it on the side of the road where
> > there'll be plenty of oxygen to support bacteria.
>
>
> I meant to put a smiley after that post, just in case you thought I was being
> serious/cynical!
>
> :-)
>
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
Maybe so but theres a certain logic to it...
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 00:59:19
From: Randy R
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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"Steve" <not@use.net > wrote in message
news:j9j4c29quc78s4913hgfbgk4s2ndtim8ds@4ax.com...
> Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
>
>
> Traditionally, those paper cups have been made with a non-renewable,
> non-biodegradable petrochemical plastic coating. But all that could
> end with the recent introduction of the new Ecotainer cup from Green
> Mountain Coffee Roasters.
> http://inhabitat.com/blog/2006/07/22/greening-your-coffee-habit-ecotainer-hot-beverage-cup/
I read about this a few days ago. The website http://www.ecocupinfo.com/ has
a few interesting facts (faqs):
Q - What else makes this an "eco-friendly" cup?
The entire lifecycle of this cup is extraordinarily sensitive to the
environmental footprint it creates-or prevents. The fiber used to make the
cups is grown and harvested according to Sustainable Forestry Initiative
guidelines, so there is no harvesting of old-growth forests. The raw
material for the cup coating comes from corn grown in the United States, and
is manufactured in a greenhouse-gas-neutral process. And, after use, under
the proper conditions, the cup will break down into the natural elements
from which it was produced. That's why we feel it's such a revolutionary
eco-friendly hot cup.
Q - You specifically don't describe this cup as biodegradable. Why?
Today, no generally accepted standards exist for classifying a material as
biodegradable. The Federal Trade Commission advises merchants to be cautious
in using that claim, and we respect their advice. Both Green Mountain Coffee
Roasters and International Paper are proud to say that the new cup meets
ASTM standards for compostability, and they're confident of the significant
environmental advantages of this cup over the standard cup.
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 13:11:59
From: rasqual
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Steve wrote:
> Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
Recycling can be expensive. Rarely taken into account is the overall
impact of recycling -- e.g., if 700 additional vehicles are required
nationwide owing to some recycling fad, to process something that's 700
miles from wherever, how much of a toll does the fabrication,
operation, maintenance, and eventual disposal of these vehicles figure
into the environmental impact of the recycling purposes for which
they're used?
Only a handful of organizations take pains to consider the full range
of effects of programs often naively planned.
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 18:40:41
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:09:49 GMT, Steve <not@use.net > wrote:
>Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
>
>
>Traditionally, those paper cups have been made with a non-renewable,
>non-biodegradable petrochemical plastic coating. But all that could
>end with the recent introduction of the new Ecotainer cup from Green
>Mountain Coffee Roasters.
>http://inhabitat.com/blog/2006/07/22/greening-your-coffee-habit-ecotainer-hot-beverage-cup/
Many years ago I represented some plastic bag manufacturers who were
looking for ways to make their products more environmentally
acceptable. They came up with a plastic blend that included corn
starch, which, presumably, bacteria would digest and excrete in a less
damaging form with the polyethylene.
Then they did a little more research and learned the following. Most
trash is deposited in waste dumps, where it is compressed under so
much weight that an anaerobic (no oxygen) environment is created.
Nothing lives in it, and nothing decays. Researchers pulled out 50
year old landfill samples that included newspapers that could be read
like this morning's and hot dogs that look fresh enough to munch on.
The sad fact is that, plastic or paper, biodegradable or not, none of
it degraded.
Marshall
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 20:59:19
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Marshall wrote:
> Many years ago I represented some plastic bag manufacturers who were
> looking for ways to make their products more environmentally
> acceptable. They came up with a plastic blend that included corn
> starch, which, presumably, bacteria would digest and excrete in a less
> damaging form with the polyethylene.
>
> Then they did a little more research and learned the following. Most
> trash is deposited in waste dumps, where it is compressed under so
> much weight that an anaerobic (no oxygen) environment is created.
> Nothing lives in it, and nothing decays. Researchers pulled out 50
> year old landfill samples that included newspapers that could be read
> like this morning's and hot dogs that look fresh enough to munch on.
> The sad fact is that, plastic or paper, biodegradable or not, none of
> it degraded.
So the environmentally friendly thing to do is use one of those biodegradable
plastic cups, then toss it on the side of the road where there'll be plenty of
oxygen to support bacteria.
--
-Andy S.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 00:29:20
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Andy Schecter wrote:
> So the environmentally friendly thing to do is use one of those
> biodegradable plastic cups, then toss it on the side of the road where
> there'll be plenty of oxygen to support bacteria.
I meant to put a smiley after that post, just in case you thought I was being
serious/cynical!
:-)
--
-Andy S.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 00:28:08
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:59:19 GMT, Andy Schecter
<schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote:
>Marshall wrote:
>> Many years ago I represented some plastic bag manufacturers who were
>> looking for ways to make their products more environmentally
>> acceptable. They came up with a plastic blend that included corn
>> starch, which, presumably, bacteria would digest and excrete in a less
>> damaging form with the polyethylene.
>>
>> Then they did a little more research and learned the following. Most
>> trash is deposited in waste dumps, where it is compressed under so
>> much weight that an anaerobic (no oxygen) environment is created.
>> Nothing lives in it, and nothing decays. Researchers pulled out 50
>> year old landfill samples that included newspapers that could be read
>> like this morning's and hot dogs that look fresh enough to munch on.
>> The sad fact is that, plastic or paper, biodegradable or not, none of
>> it degraded.
>
>
>So the environmentally friendly thing to do is use one of those biodegradable
>plastic cups, then toss it on the side of the road where there'll be plenty of
>oxygen to support bacteria.
Bingo!
Marshall
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 05:39:09
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Quoth Andy Schecter <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com >:
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Date: 02 Aug 2006 21:28:31
From: Tony Verhulst
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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> That corn plastic won't even biodegrade that way, as I understand it.
> I mean, maybe PVC or whatever would outlive it, but to get the kind of
> speedy decomposition I think people expect, I think it has to be composted
> under fairly stringent conditions. If you just stick it in the ground,
> it will be there long after you're dead.
Quite correct http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/august/pla.php
Tony V.
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 15:32:04
From: Sharkman BMW
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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That is depressing...
BTW, can either of these cups be recycled??
That is the best way to deal with those when empty, but I guess no one would
recycle them either!
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:frr4c25h024u6lcmt0ldjmiaj5k4ta3l6m@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:09:49 GMT, Steve <not@use.net> wrote:
>
>>Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
>>
>>
>>Traditionally, those paper cups have been made with a non-renewable,
>>non-biodegradable petrochemical plastic coating. But all that could
>>end with the recent introduction of the new Ecotainer cup from Green
>>Mountain Coffee Roasters.
>>http://inhabitat.com/blog/2006/07/22/greening-your-coffee-habit-ecotainer-hot-beverage-cup/
>
>
> Many years ago I represented some plastic bag manufacturers who were
> looking for ways to make their products more environmentally
> acceptable. They came up with a plastic blend that included corn
> starch, which, presumably, bacteria would digest and excrete in a less
> damaging form with the polyethylene.
>
> Then they did a little more research and learned the following. Most
> trash is deposited in waste dumps, where it is compressed under so
> much weight that an anaerobic (no oxygen) environment is created.
> Nothing lives in it, and nothing decays. Researchers pulled out 50
> year old landfill samples that included newspapers that could be read
> like this morning's and hot dogs that look fresh enough to munch on.
> The sad fact is that, plastic or paper, biodegradable or not, none of
> it degraded.
>
> Marshall
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 18:46:32
From: Steve
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:40:41 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>Many years ago I represented some plastic bag manufacturers who were
>looking for ways to make their products more environmentally
>acceptable. They came up with a plastic blend that included corn
>starch, which, presumably, bacteria would digest and excrete in a less
>damaging form with the polyethylene.
>
>Then they did a little more research and learned the following. Most
>trash is deposited in waste dumps, where it is compressed under so
>much weight that an anaerobic (no oxygen) environment is created.
>Nothing lives in it, and nothing decays. Researchers pulled out 50
>year old landfill samples that included newspapers that could be read
>like this morning's and hot dogs that look fresh enough to munch on.
>The sad fact is that, plastic or paper, biodegradable or not, none of
>it degraded.
Amazing.
So archaeologists will unearth codecs of our time in perfect
condition.
I'm glad I'll be dead when they read them.
"Archaeologists discovered today intact remains of the Pitt-Jolie
gospel"
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 13:12:23
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:46:32 GMT, Steve <not@use.net > wrote:
>Amazing.
>So archaeologists will unearth codecs of our time in perfect
>condition.
>I'm glad I'll be dead when they read them.
>"Archaeologists discovered today intact remains of the Pitt-Jolie
>gospel"
I think I will go print out a hard copy of my website and throw it
away!
Randy "gov't funded website recycling" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 20:52:52
From: Steve
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:12:23 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>I think I will go print out a hard copy of my website and throw it
>away!
In other news, the document believed to have inspired the long running
Broadway musical "Espresso mi Espresso" was uncovered today. Experts
speculate that clues to the identity of the mysterious author daveb...
d&r a s f a s t a s I c a n
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Date: 02 Aug 2006 21:23:46
From: Tony Verhulst
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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> In other news, the document believed to have inspired the long running
> Broadway musical "Espresso mi Espresso" was uncovered today. Experts
> speculate that clues to the identity of the mysterious author daveb...
No, it was a sequel to the "Sanka Cantata" by PDQ Bach.
Tony V
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:50:23
From: Doug Cadmus
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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rasqual wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> > Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
>
> Recycling can be expensive. Rarely taken into account is the overall
> impact of recycling -- e.g., if 700 additional vehicles are required
> nationwide owing to some recycling fad, to process something that's 700
> miles from wherever, how much of a toll does the fabrication,
> operation, maintenance, and eventual disposal of these vehicles figure
> into the environmental impact of the recycling purposes for which
> they're used?
Straw men are not well known for furthering recycling efforts. ;)
-deCadmus
www.bloggle.com
Made in Vermont
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 04:10:22
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Quoth "Doug Cadmus" <decadmus@gmail.com >:
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:46:45
From: Doug Cadmus
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Marshall wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:09:49 GMT, Steve <not@use.net> wrote:
>
> >Maybe others have seen this but it was new to me.
> >
> >
> >Traditionally, those paper cups have been made with a non-renewable,
> >non-biodegradable petrochemical plastic coating. But all that could
> >end with the recent introduction of the new Ecotainer cup from Green
> >Mountain Coffee Roasters.
> >http://inhabitat.com/blog/2006/07/22/greening-your-coffee-habit-ecotainer-hot-beverage-cup/
>
>
> Many years ago I represented some plastic bag manufacturers who were
> looking for ways to make their products more environmentally
> acceptable. They came up with a plastic blend that included corn
> starch, which, presumably, bacteria would digest and excrete in a less
> damaging form with the polyethylene.
>
> Then they did a little more research and learned the following. Most
> trash is deposited in waste dumps, where it is compressed under so
> much weight that an anaerobic (no oxygen) environment is created.
> Nothing lives in it, and nothing decays. Researchers pulled out 50
> year old landfill samples that included newspapers that could be read
> like this morning's and hot dogs that look fresh enough to munch on.
> The sad fact is that, plastic or paper, biodegradable or not, none of
> it degraded.
>
> Marshall
That is the very reason that it's not considered a *biodegradable* cup,
but a *compostable* cup. So don't throw it in the road... put it in
your compost bin. ;)
But that's only part of the story. The rest is that it's created in a
carbon-neutral process that involves at least 70% renewable energy
sources, and that it uses a corn-based resin that'll eliminate the use
of a quarter of a million pounds of petrochemicals.
It's pretty cool, actually. For a hot cup.
-deCadmus
www.bloggle.com
Made in Vermont
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Date: 05 Aug 2006 19:12:53
From: rasqual
Subject: Re: GREENING YOUR COFFEE HABIT: Ecotainer Hot Beverage Cup
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Doug Cadmus wrote:
> rasqual wrote:
> > Recycling can be expensive. Rarely taken into account is the overall
> > impact of recycling -- e.g., if 700 additional vehicles are required
> > nationwide owing to some recycling fad, to process something that's 700
> > miles from wherever, how much of a toll does the fabrication,
> > operation, maintenance, and eventual disposal of these vehicles figure
> > into the environmental impact of the recycling purposes for which
> > they're used?
> Straw men are not well known for furthering recycling efforts. ;)
Sorry, not intentional. Just not addressing the main development at
issue. The liner is a salutary development, but the FAQ also discussed
recycling, and I've grown weary at how naive the world's youngsters can
be about that -- some of the most uncritical thinking I've seen in any
area of life.
As for eco-friendly advances in general, I hold no brief. I selected
the cups I use at the farmer's market on such merits.
On the other hand, despite being a farm kid myself, I'm always wary
about anything agribusiness promotes. So often, the best solution isn't
adopted because a merely fair alternative is more profitable. Despite
my [default] capitalist sympathies, the lesson of the ice cream vendors
on the beach is all too often business reality.
--
Scott
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