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Date: 17 Jul 2006 13:57:05
From: paulb
Subject: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
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I'm a total newbie who just bought a used but recently serviced Gaggia
Classic. After more than a pound of coffee, a quart or two of milk, a
whole roll of paper towels and 3 days of experimentation, I seem to be
having more problems now than when I started:
- The portafilter hardly rotates at all, maybe 10 degrees before
locking (was like this from day 1). The manual says the handle should
face the front (that would be 45 degrees or so of turn) or even be a
little to the right of center. When I turn the machine upside down to
look, everything appears OK. The gasket looks clean, but I guess it
doesn't compress much. Is this normal? How can you tell if a gasket
is too hard?
- On the second day (all was OK on the first day), water started
leaking from the portafilter rim when pulling a shot. What seemed to
fix this in the end was going down a notch in fineness on the grind,
although this was the same grind setting as the previous day when all
was OK. Then the third day (today) I had to go down another notch to
stop the same thing happening - now I have only 13 second pours. I'm
pretty sure that on the first day when I tried the finest two of
settings on the grinder and the machine choked (apparently - I got 2
drops after 30 seconds of pump) it did so without leaking any water
...but maybe my memory is faulty since it was all new that day. So the
question is, is it normal that if the grind is too fine and chokes the
machine then water can leak past the gasket?
- I thought I read somewhere that you should hear a hiss and see a jet
of water, when turning off the pump as the 3-way solenoid dumps
pressure and water into the drip tray. I don't hear much at all (if
anything), but can see that some water comes out of the tube into the
drip tray and the puck is fairly dry most of the time. So, is it normal
for the pressure release to be a little dramatic, or does it happen
quietly like mine?
Any insight will be most appreciated since I have no baseline to
compare.
-Paul
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 21:19:19
From: paulb
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
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Thanks very much for the comments and tips, guys.
The pf rotates the same empty (even with no filter basket), so it can't
be due to overfilling. I think then it must be the gasket size. How do
I remove it?
Paul
Bill (Adopt) wrote:
> In article <1153169825.916355.52880@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> paulb <buckingham@direcway.com> wrote:
> > I'm a total newbie who just bought a used but recently serviced Gaggia
> > Classic. After more than a pound of coffee, a quart or two of milk, a
> > whole roll of paper towels and 3 days of experimentation, I seem to be
> > having more problems now than when I started:
>
> What ..and only one paper towel roll!! ;))
>
> > - The portafilter hardly rotates at all, maybe 10 degrees before
> > locking (was like this from day 1). The manual says the handle should
> > face the front (that would be 45 degrees or so of turn) or even be a
> > little to the right of center. When I turn the machine upside down to
> > look, everything appears OK. The gasket looks clean, but I guess it
> > doesn't compress much. Is this normal? How can you tell if a gasket
> > is too hard?
>
> Not definitive ..but: this happens to me when using my
> Gaggia Coffee (same group and pf) if I've overfilled the
> basket, particularly the single/pod basket when, after
> tamping, the surface of the dry-tamped puck is still too
> near the top of the pf.
>
> This can happen if, depending on the fineness of the
> grind, the basket is filled 'to the top' and then levelled
> without much 'fluffiness' or 'give' in the grind - ie
> the weight of coffee is well beyond the single 7gm, or
> 14gm for a double basket. It doesn't take much extra
> ground coffee to lock up the works..
>
> Any over-filling will be noticeable as the screw holding
> the shower-screen in place tends to forcibly indent the dry
> puck, even before the coffee extraction (and any swelling)
> has started.
>
> Makes it a virtual impossibility to close the pf up to the
> group correctly - it locks solid well in advance of the
> 'correct' position.
>
> Water pressure - if the pump is started before the pf is
> seated correctly against the group/group seal - may also
> escape from around the sealing gasket ..which, I guess,
> isn't sitting correctly with the pf owing to the overfill.
>
> (The pf tightens against the group as it's turned into the
> correct position - notice the slight 'upward' angle of the
> lugs cf to the horizontal plane)..
>
> I've found the cure is either to remove some of the contents
> of the basket - not forgetting to rake the still dry grounds
> up and around again with my 'a.b.c.' child's cutlery fork ;))
> before re-tapping, re-settling, re-tamping and re-introducing
> the puck to the group. Usually successful second time around.
>
> If not, I chuck the lot, mutter a vague prayer of schoolyard
> origin, reach for a new roll of paper towels - and start again -
> hopefully with a more accurate measure from the outset! (7gm
> is correct - 10/11gm is almost too much in the single basket,
> correspondingly increased with the 'double' basket).
>
> [..]
> > - On the second day (all was OK on the first day), water started
> > leaking from the portafilter rim when pulling a shot.
> [..]
>
> ..trust the suggestion is a help... :))
>
> Bill ZFC
> e&oe...!
>
> --
> Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
> Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 10:54:30
From: Bill (Adopt)
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
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In article <1153196359.711223.298720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
paulb <buckingham@direcway.com > wrote:
> Thanks very much for the comments and tips, guys.
> The pf rotates the same empty (even with no filter basket), so it can't
> be due to overfilling. I think then it must be the gasket size. How do
> I remove it?
..best I know, (from a slowly increasing 'knowledge'),
is that which the manual and a Gaggia Naster Barista
recently showed me over a coffee or two (!):
a. remove the shower screen from the group.
(The one that's cleaned each time you
de-calcify the thing, or more often if
it ever blocks slightly with overloaded
pf remnants).
b. Under the shower screen are a couple of
5mm allen bolts that will need removing,
along with the shower plate they hold in
in place...
c. screw a couple of small woodscrews or
similar into the old (black?) gasket -
possibly at a slight angle until it gets
a purchase. (Gaggia Trained Barista
here did it with one)..
d. Using pliers - and possibly gently levering
with a flat driver, gently pull and lever
the old gasket away from it's seating.
Bit like pulling a tooth - I reckon - although that
I've never done ..at least not yet.. ;))
Immediately falling to hand - but could be a little slow
to download if using dialup or a slow connection - (lot's
of informative piccies) - is:
http://www.bluebox.com.au/jcrayon/gaggia/index.htm
There'll be lots of other sites and help from all the
usual suspects possibly under something like "gaggia
group gasket" - or somesuch..
hope helps - and that you win! It'll be worth it.. :))
Bill ZFC
e&oe... ;))
PS - remember the bit about the overfilled pf! It
really does do a solid lock up - and squirts water
and ooze where it shouldn't!
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 02:20:47
From: Bill (Adopt)
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
|
In article <1153169825.916355.52880@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com >,
paulb <buckingham@direcway.com > wrote:
> I'm a total newbie who just bought a used but recently serviced Gaggia
> Classic. After more than a pound of coffee, a quart or two of milk, a
> whole roll of paper towels and 3 days of experimentation, I seem to be
> having more problems now than when I started:
What ..and only one paper towel roll!! ;))
> - The portafilter hardly rotates at all, maybe 10 degrees before
> locking (was like this from day 1). The manual says the handle should
> face the front (that would be 45 degrees or so of turn) or even be a
> little to the right of center. When I turn the machine upside down to
> look, everything appears OK. The gasket looks clean, but I guess it
> doesn't compress much. Is this normal? How can you tell if a gasket
> is too hard?
Not definitive ..but: this happens to me when using my
Gaggia Coffee (same group and pf) if I've overfilled the
basket, particularly the single/pod basket when, after
tamping, the surface of the dry-tamped puck is still too
near the top of the pf.
This can happen if, depending on the fineness of the
grind, the basket is filled 'to the top' and then levelled
without much 'fluffiness' or 'give' in the grind - ie
the weight of coffee is well beyond the single 7gm, or
14gm for a double basket. It doesn't take much extra
ground coffee to lock up the works..
Any over-filling will be noticeable as the screw holding
the shower-screen in place tends to forcibly indent the dry
puck, even before the coffee extraction (and any swelling)
has started.
Makes it a virtual impossibility to close the pf up to the
group correctly - it locks solid well in advance of the
'correct' position.
Water pressure - if the pump is started before the pf is
seated correctly against the group/group seal - may also
escape from around the sealing gasket ..which, I guess,
isn't sitting correctly with the pf owing to the overfill.
(The pf tightens against the group as it's turned into the
correct position - notice the slight 'upward' angle of the
lugs cf to the horizontal plane)..
I've found the cure is either to remove some of the contents
of the basket - not forgetting to rake the still dry grounds
up and around again with my 'a.b.c.' child's cutlery fork ;))
before re-tapping, re-settling, re-tamping and re-introducing
the puck to the group. Usually successful second time around.
If not, I chuck the lot, mutter a vague prayer of schoolyard
origin, reach for a new roll of paper towels - and start again -
hopefully with a more accurate measure from the outset! (7gm
is correct - 10/11gm is almost too much in the single basket,
correspondingly increased with the 'double' basket).
[..]
> - On the second day (all was OK on the first day), water started
> leaking from the portafilter rim when pulling a shot.
[..]
..trust the suggestion is a help... :))
Bill ZFC
e&oe...!
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 21:26:18
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
|
"paulb" <buckingham@direcway.com > wrote in message
news:1153169825.916355.52880@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
snip
>
> - The portafilter hardly rotates at all, maybe 10 degrees before
> locking (was like this from day 1). The manual says the handle should
> face the front (that would be 45 degrees or so of turn) or even be a
> little to the right of center. When I turn the machine upside down to
> look, everything appears OK. The gasket looks clean, but I guess it
> doesn't compress much. Is this normal? How can you tell if a gasket
> is too hard?
>
You're Classic uses an 8.5 mm group gasket. It's possible someone put a 9 mm
in it. Is the gasket pliable if you poke at it with a screwdriver. If it
has some give to it you're probably OK. Be sure to really tug the
portafilter into place (I mean TUG). You can't break the PF of a Gaggia.
> - On the second day (all was OK on the first day), water started
> leaking from the portafilter rim when pulling a shot. What seemed to
> fix this in the end was going down a notch in fineness on the grind,
> although this was the same grind setting as the previous day when all
> was OK. Then the third day (today) I had to go down another notch to
> stop the same thing happening - now I have only 13 second pours. I'm
> pretty sure that on the first day when I tried the finest two of
> settings on the grinder and the machine choked (apparently - I got 2
> drops after 30 seconds of pump) it did so without leaking any water
> ...but maybe my memory is faulty since it was all new that day. So the
> question is, is it normal that if the grind is too fine and chokes the
> machine then water can leak past the gasket?
>
Don't adjust the grind to keep it from leaking; fix the leak! The Gaggia has
an over pressurerization valve (OPV), but it's function is to regulate
pressure before the boiler, draining off excess water pressure into the
water reservoir. The solenoid valve will dump fluids from the PF. The PF
will route the shot from the filter into your cup. There are no other legit
outlets for fluids from a Gaggia.
> - I thought I read somewhere that you should hear a hiss and see a jet
> of water, when turning off the pump as the 3-way solenoid dumps
> pressure and water into the drip tray. I don't hear much at all (if
> anything), but can see that some water comes out of the tube into the
> drip tray and the puck is fairly dry most of the time. So, is it normal
> for the pressure release to be a little dramatic, or does it happen
> quietly like mine?
If you have completely choked the machine shut off the pump immediately! The
liquid left in the PF will be routed into the drip tray. Depending on how
much pressure you've let build up the discharge can be a gush or a dribble.
> Any insight will be most appreciated since I have no baseline to
> compare.
>
> -Paul
Good luck!
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 13:36:53
From: paulb
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
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Well I'm now told that the Classic has always used the black gasket and
that the blue gaskets are for earlier Coffee models. Meanwhile, I
measured the old gasket in situ and found it was higher by 1/2mm on one
side than the other. So I took it out (thanks for the instructions) and
found it is indeed an 8.5mm but it had a v. small crack in the
pf-facing surface. So I turned it upside down and reseated it in the
group head. Now I can turn the pf handle to center front and no more
leaks are occurring during extraction!
I've ordered another couple of gaskets because I'll consider this a
temporary fix.
Thanks to Bill and Robert for their comments, suggestions and tips.
-Paul
paulb wrote:
> Thanks for the procedure, Bill - great!
>
> So I went to 1stincoffee site to order a gasket and it mentions some
> Gaggia gaskets are blue which are special order and to make sure you
> get the same color as the old one (blue or black, my old one is black).
> I emailed to ask how do you tell which one if you can't trust the old
> one and they replied "you can't tell". But if it makes a difference
> which one you use, there must be some way to tell ( a measurement, a
> difference in group heads or pfs).
>
> Anyone know?
>
> -Paul
>
> Bill (Adopt) wrote:
> > In article <1153196359.711223.298720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> > paulb <buckingham@direcway.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks very much for the comments and tips, guys.
> > > The pf rotates the same empty (even with no filter basket), so it can't
> > > be due to overfilling. I think then it must be the gasket size. How do
> > > I remove it?
> >
> > ..best I know, (from a slowly increasing 'knowledge'),
> > is that which the manual and a Gaggia Naster Barista
> > recently showed me over a coffee or two (!):
> >
> > a. remove the shower screen from the group.
> > (The one that's cleaned each time you
> > de-calcify the thing, or more often if
> > it ever blocks slightly with overloaded
> > pf remnants).
> >
> > b. Under the shower screen are a couple of
> > 5mm allen bolts that will need removing,
> > along with the shower plate they hold in
> > in place...
> >
> > c. screw a couple of small woodscrews or
> > similar into the old (black?) gasket -
> > possibly at a slight angle until it gets
> > a purchase. (Gaggia Trained Barista
> > here did it with one)..
> >
> > d. Using pliers - and possibly gently levering
> > with a flat driver, gently pull and lever
> > the old gasket away from it's seating.
> >
> > Bit like pulling a tooth - I reckon - although that
> > I've never done ..at least not yet.. ;))
> >
> > Immediately falling to hand - but could be a little slow
> > to download if using dialup or a slow connection - (lot's
> > of informative piccies) - is:
> >
> > http://www.bluebox.com.au/jcrayon/gaggia/index.htm
> >
> > There'll be lots of other sites and help from all the
> > usual suspects possibly under something like "gaggia
> > group gasket" - or somesuch..
> >
> > hope helps - and that you win! It'll be worth it.. :))
> >
> > Bill ZFC
> > e&oe... ;))
> >
> > PS - remember the bit about the overfilled pf! It
> > really does do a solid lock up - and squirts water
> > and ooze where it shouldn't!
> >
> > --
> > Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
> > Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 11:00:06
From: paulb
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
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Thanks for the procedure, Bill - great!
So I went to 1stincoffee site to order a gasket and it mentions some
Gaggia gaskets are blue which are special order and to make sure you
get the same color as the old one (blue or black, my old one is black).
I emailed to ask how do you tell which one if you can't trust the old
one and they replied "you can't tell". But if it makes a difference
which one you use, there must be some way to tell ( a measurement, a
difference in group heads or pfs).
Anyone know?
-Paul
Bill (Adopt) wrote:
> In article <1153196359.711223.298720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> paulb <buckingham@direcway.com> wrote:
> > Thanks very much for the comments and tips, guys.
> > The pf rotates the same empty (even with no filter basket), so it can't
> > be due to overfilling. I think then it must be the gasket size. How do
> > I remove it?
>
> ..best I know, (from a slowly increasing 'knowledge'),
> is that which the manual and a Gaggia Naster Barista
> recently showed me over a coffee or two (!):
>
> a. remove the shower screen from the group.
> (The one that's cleaned each time you
> de-calcify the thing, or more often if
> it ever blocks slightly with overloaded
> pf remnants).
>
> b. Under the shower screen are a couple of
> 5mm allen bolts that will need removing,
> along with the shower plate they hold in
> in place...
>
> c. screw a couple of small woodscrews or
> similar into the old (black?) gasket -
> possibly at a slight angle until it gets
> a purchase. (Gaggia Trained Barista
> here did it with one)..
>
> d. Using pliers - and possibly gently levering
> with a flat driver, gently pull and lever
> the old gasket away from it's seating.
>
> Bit like pulling a tooth - I reckon - although that
> I've never done ..at least not yet.. ;))
>
> Immediately falling to hand - but could be a little slow
> to download if using dialup or a slow connection - (lot's
> of informative piccies) - is:
>
> http://www.bluebox.com.au/jcrayon/gaggia/index.htm
>
> There'll be lots of other sites and help from all the
> usual suspects possibly under something like "gaggia
> group gasket" - or somesuch..
>
> hope helps - and that you win! It'll be worth it.. :))
>
> Bill ZFC
> e&oe... ;))
>
> PS - remember the bit about the overfilled pf! It
> really does do a solid lock up - and squirts water
> and ooze where it shouldn't!
>
> --
> Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
> Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 04:45:29
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic or Operator teething problems
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