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Date: 19 Aug 2006 10:20:46
From: Frank103
Subject: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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I am thinking about getting an espresso machine and have been researching
both Gaggia and Rancilio. Amazon had 19 reviews of the Gaggia 14101 Classic.
It got three and a half stars. 38 people rated the Rancilio Silvia at 4
stars. Any thoughts and preferences.?
One thing that concerned me about the Rancilio is the first review that
comes up on amazon. A lady who was getting warm, bitter coffee wrote: "When
I spoke with a person at the distributing company, he told me that making
espresso with this machine is an art and that one has to work at it. He
stated that we needed a thermometer ("digital is best") to test the water
temperature, that we needed finer grinds of espresso and that we would just
have to experiment. He stated that these machines are not for novices. I
told him that the advertisement stated this was a simple machine to use and
he replied that that is wrong."
I know making espresso is an art and it takes practice and it's not "just
one push of a button" as Rancilio advertises. But just how complicated are
they? And if they are "not for novices" what training do you need? Also, how
much time does it take to clean them? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in
advance.
Frank
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 19:35:38
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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Randy G. wrote:
> "Frank103" <frank103@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >I am thinking about getting an espresso machine and have been researching
> >both Gaggia and Rancilio. Amazon had 19 reviews of the Gaggia 14101 Classic.
> >It got three and a half stars. 38 people rated the Rancilio Silvia at 4
> >stars. Any thoughts and preferences.?
> >
I think everything Lloyd Parsons wrote above was absolutely spot-on.
The Silvia is the way to go, and the so-called 'expert' knowledge
needed can be acquired through practice in about a couple of hours.
I have a slightly different machine, the ECM Botticelli, which I chose
over the Silvia simply because I was offered an unbeatable deal on a
flawless factory-second. The two machines are virtually identical in
performance; the Botticelli simply looks more elegant, and my wife just
loves it. And the coffee is great too.....
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 19:19:53
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <SLHFg.1551$JR5.758@dukeread11>,
> "Frank103" <frank103@cox.net> wrote:
>
> 3. Grind the beans. I only grind what I need for the pull, which for
> me is 2 level spoons (spoon included w/Silvia) of beans. I have a
> Gaggia MDF grinder set to 2 or 3 for espresso shots, depending on bean
> and 5 for cafe cremas.
>
> 4. Fill and tamp the double filter, 30 lbs for espresso, about 1/2 that
> for cafe cremas.
>
Hi, Lloyd -
Tell me more about cafe cremas using Silvia. Always wanted to give
this a try, but I am clueless. Thanks.
Jim
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 22:07:45
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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In article <1156040393.656473.235610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
"jggall01" <jggall01@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > In article <SLHFg.1551$JR5.758@dukeread11>,
> > "Frank103" <frank103@cox.net> wrote:
> >
>
> > 3. Grind the beans. I only grind what I need for the pull, which for
> > me is 2 level spoons (spoon included w/Silvia) of beans. I have a
> > Gaggia MDF grinder set to 2 or 3 for espresso shots, depending on bean
> > and 5 for cafe cremas.
> >
> > 4. Fill and tamp the double filter, 30 lbs for espresso, about 1/2 that
> > for cafe cremas.
> >
>
> Hi, Lloyd -
>
> Tell me more about cafe cremas using Silvia. Always wanted to give
> this a try, but I am clueless. Thanks.
>
> Jim
There seems to be some differences in what they are, but here is what I
do.
I grind coarser and tamp lighter for a double basket full off grounds.
Then I pull to 2 5-oz cups until full. One variation is to pull a
double to a 7 oz cup, but I found that too strong for me. You'll get a
nice crema on top of the cup, but it doesn't tend to last as long nor be
as thick as a good normal espresso shot.
What I get is a great, bold cup of coffee that is not bitter, but it is
very flavorful.
Another option is the Americano which is to pull a double shot and just
add water to taste. I don't like these as much.
I just got through with a cafe crema made from my SM Dry Process Sidamo
at City+. Lord oh lord, the blueberries were all over it. Made me want
to grab some whipped cream! ;-)
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 14:24:09
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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"Frank103" <frank103@cox.net > wrote:
>I am thinking about getting an espresso machine and have been researching
>both Gaggia and Rancilio. Amazon had 19 reviews of the Gaggia 14101 Classic.
>It got three and a half stars. 38 people rated the Rancilio Silvia at 4
>stars. Any thoughts and preferences.?
>
I think that with Amazon ratings you have to consider that the people
probably wrote the reviews after a short time of ownership and that
they were probably not that experienced with either machine. With that
said, the relatively high ratings point to the fact that these are
both very capable machines if matched with equally capable grinders.
>One thing that concerned me about the Rancilio is the first review that
>comes up on amazon. A lady who was getting warm, bitter coffee wrote: "When
>I spoke with a person at the distributing company, he told me that making
>espresso with this machine is an art and that one has to work at it....
>
These machines to take some learning and adjustment of technique over
time. It is an art to some extent, just like most any form of fine
food preparation. Read my website- particularly the chapter, "Are you
Anal Enough for Espresso."
>I know making espresso is an art and it takes practice and it's not "just
>one push of a button" as Rancilio advertises. But just how complicated are
>they? And if they are "not for novices" what training do you need? Also, how
>much time does it take to clean them? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in
>advance.
>
I think you will find most of the answers you need on my website. I
have had Silvia for nearly 6 years now, and in daily use I think I can
say I know her pretty well, inside and out. If I had to replace her
with a machine in the same price range, I would buy another one.
Randy "If espresso was easy, Starbucks could do it right" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 13:12:03
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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Making espresso is not that hard. Either machine will do a fine job.
YOU MUST have a good grinder
you must shoot for 20 -- 25 seconds for 2 ounces of coffee.
Keep the machine clean, but you don't need to be fanantical.
there are good videos and advice -- free here on the internet.
Dave
Saeco / Gaggia service SE
105 silvias
Frank103 wrote:
> I am thinking about getting an espresso machine and have been researching
> both Gaggia and Rancilio. Amazon had 19 reviews of the Gaggia 14101 Classic.
> It got three and a half stars. 38 people rated the Rancilio Silvia at 4
> stars. Any thoughts and preferences.?
>
> One thing that concerned me about the Rancilio is the first review that
> comes up on amazon. A lady who was getting warm, bitter coffee wrote: "When
> I spoke with a person at the distributing company, he told me that making
> espresso with this machine is an art and that one has to work at it. He
> stated that we needed a thermometer ("digital is best") to test the water
> temperature, that we needed finer grinds of espresso and that we would just
> have to experiment. He stated that these machines are not for novices. I
> told him that the advertisement stated this was a simple machine to use and
> he replied that that is wrong."
>
> I know making espresso is an art and it takes practice and it's not "just
> one push of a button" as Rancilio advertises. But just how complicated are
> they? And if they are "not for novices" what training do you need? Also, how
> much time does it take to clean them? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> Frank
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 12:59:31
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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In article <SLHFg.1551$JR5.758@dukeread11 >,
"Frank103" <frank103@cox.net > wrote:
> I am thinking about getting an espresso machine and have been researching
> both Gaggia and Rancilio. Amazon had 19 reviews of the Gaggia 14101 Classic.
> It got three and a half stars. 38 people rated the Rancilio Silvia at 4
> stars. Any thoughts and preferences.?
>
> One thing that concerned me about the Rancilio is the first review that
> comes up on amazon. A lady who was getting warm, bitter coffee wrote: "When
> I spoke with a person at the distributing company, he told me that making
> espresso with this machine is an art and that one has to work at it. He
> stated that we needed a thermometer ("digital is best") to test the water
> temperature, that we needed finer grinds of espresso and that we would just
> have to experiment. He stated that these machines are not for novices. I
> told him that the advertisement stated this was a simple machine to use and
> he replied that that is wrong."
>
> I know making espresso is an art and it takes practice and it's not "just
> one push of a button" as Rancilio advertises. But just how complicated are
> they? And if they are "not for novices" what training do you need? Also, how
> much time does it take to clean them? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> Frank
I was where you are at just a few weeks ago. I opted for the Rancilio
Miss Silvia as I liked the looks better, the consistently positive
reviews and the option of finer temp control if I needed it.
I found it not a problem to produce an excellent shot with my lovely
Miss Silvia. Here's what I do:
1. Turn it on and wait for at least twenty minutes. I want everything
warmed up and this does just that.
2. Just before pulling the shots, I use the hot water wand to pre-warm
my cups until the boiler heat light comes on.
3. Grind the beans. I only grind what I need for the pull, which for
me is 2 level spoons (spoon included w/Silvia) of beans. I have a
Gaggia MDF grinder set to 2 or 3 for espresso shots, depending on bean
and 5 for cafe cremas.
4. Fill and tamp the double filter, 30 lbs for espresso, about 1/2 that
for cafe cremas.
5. Dump the water from the cups, pull the shots to the cup.
I get a very consistent, delicious result. Am I getting 'god shots'?
Probably not, but I'm getting damn good ones.
The key is getting a good grinder, properly tamping and using a good
espresso machine.
Daily cleanup of Silvia is a breeze. I pull the portafilter and clean
it seperate, run the pump without filter for a few moments, brush the
grouphead and wipe it all down. Dump the drip tray and dry it. Takes
about 10 minutes.
Every 2 weeks, I pull the screen and dispersion screw and washer and
soak them in Cafiza, rinse well, reassemble and do a backflush. All in
all, takes about 1/2 hour of work over about an hour.
It did take a bit of playing around at first to get the right grind
level, but I didn't find it difficult or onerous.
Lloyd
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 06:17:33
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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daveb wrote:
>
> Espresso ain't that hard.
'Deed it ain't, Dave, though it ain't that easy, either. There is
always more to learn. But the way some folk go on about it (".01
degree C made all the difference" "I use the Hinklehoff-Smugworth
tamping technique as modified by Steenburgen at the 2004
Norwegian-Finnish Barista Championship" "I roast 60 grams of Oompapa
Mow Mow to 447.8 degrees and brew it precisely 42 hours after it is
finished--anything else is absolutely undrinkable" "I found the latest
Sinovese Cuppa di Excellenze to exhibit floral tones of frangipani and
cowslips over bass notes of stewed prunes and cumin-laced chili con
queso") one would think that it fell somewhere between neurosurgery and
the most esoteric of religions.
I've had two Silvias--gave the first one away to a family member and
just retired the second in favor of a Brewtus II--and they do a grand
job with a real but readily manageable learning curve. There is all
the support in the world for the old girl: parts, information, advice.
Ask her out; she'll make you happy.
Randy is a source of excellent advice about the care and feeding of
Miss Silvia. Dave is a salutary dollop of sensible sarcasm. How lucky
we are that they don't get along.
Will
Serious but not supercilious about coffee
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 11:52:10
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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On 2006-08-20, Omniryx@gmail.com <Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote:
> But the way some folk go on about it (".01
> degree C made all the difference" "I use the Hinklehoff-Smugworth
> tamping technique as modified by Steenburgen at the 2004
> Norwegian-Finnish Barista Championship" "I roast 60 grams of Oompapa
> Mow Mow to 447.8 degrees and brew it precisely 42 hours after it is
> finished--anything else is absolutely undrinkable" "I found the latest
> Sinovese Cuppa di Excellenze to exhibit floral tones of frangipani and
> cowslips over bass notes of stewed prunes and cumin-laced chili con
> queso") one would think that it fell somewhere between neurosurgery and
> the most esoteric of religions.
LOL!......
Thnx for my morning chuckle.
nb
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 04:53:01
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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>
> I have had [the] Silvia for nearly 6 years now, and in daily use I think I can
> say I know . . .
That is the ONLY machine he has EVER used. -- or talks about.
>
> Randy "If espresso was easy, Starbucks could do it right" G.
>
Espresso ain't that hard.
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
105 silvias pid
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 04:40:45
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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That is the ONLY machine he has ever used. -- or talks about.
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
105
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 15:31:02
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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I suggest the "Oh puck it, anyway" seminar at Puck U.
Overheard at Mother's Coffee in Seattle; Milquetoasty looking customer
from Home Barista.Com to hulking barista behind bar: "Oh no, sir, you
misunderstood me. I said you Mothers' puckers make GREAT coffee."
daveb wrote:
> can you comment about my used coffee pucks? they seem to be
> containing over 22.5% moisture, well below the recommended 26%, thus my
> pucks seem a leetle drier than normal -- even though I am using
> MeerkatFece Valdez roast #12????
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 13:37:38
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Gaggia vs. Rancilio
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Bravo! heheheheh! BTW, expanding in that vein:
can you comment about my used coffee pucks? they seem to be
containing over 22.5% moisture, well below the recommended 26%, thus my
pucks seem a leetle drier than normal -- even though I am using
MeerkatFece Valdez roast #12????
Ideas?
daveb
105
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