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Date: 24 Jul 2006 15:59:18
From: houdina
Subject: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Does anyone know a good source for hi-temp wire ? I am rewiring a LM
and looking for the correct wire. I would rather not have to buy 500ft
of each color and size I need.
Gregg
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:03:50
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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"houdina" <houdina@gmail.com > wrote:
>Does anyone know a good source for hi-temp wire ? I am rewiring a LM
>and looking for the correct wire. I would rather not have to buy 500ft
>of each color and size I need.
>Gregg
If you can't find anything, try a local high performance/automotive
racing/boat shop. They sometimes stock quality wire made for high
temps that they sell either in small rolls or from bulk. A local shop
that builds race cars may have a scrap bin they would sell from cheap.
Randy "Why-her...?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 20:29:14
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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houdina wrote:
> Does anyone know a good source for hi-temp wire ? I am rewiring a LM
> and looking for the correct wire. I would rather not have to buy 500ft
> of each color and size I need.
> Gregg
UL1015 wire will probably match original.
Sources:
Waytekwire.com (I have used them - they do a good job)
Lowes - big box home improvement store. They stock small spools of
1015 in 18AWG, but color selection may be limited to red, black, green.
-- JGG
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 04:40:26
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 24 Jul 2006 20:29:14 -0700, "jggall01" <jggall01@yahoo.com > wrote:
>UL1015 wire will probably match original.
>
original is UL3135 and another number which escapes me at the mo', but
which is equally difficult to obtain. the one online source that
would actually respond to email requests is out of stock until the
middle of august.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 19:29:51
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Barry Jarrett notes:
> finding teflon is no problem; there are several reliable sources.
Like the great industrial supply house, McMaster-Carr. For 16 awg, two
10' lengths would cost $22.30 plus postage. Powerwerx's minimum length
is 25', two for $33.50 plus postage, a better deal if they're reliable.
And then there's the eBay listing I found: five 20' lengths, $26 total.
Felix
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 05:49:02
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 31 Jul 2006 19:29:51 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>And then there's the eBay listing I found: five 20' lengths, $26 total.
105C rated.
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 08:14:42
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On 31 Jul 2006 19:29:51 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >And then there's the eBay listing I found: five 20' lengths, $26 total.
>
>
> 105C rated.
"Teflon" covers a lot of territory. Some teflon insulated wiring is UL
rated for 250C. Are you basing your assertion on having bought some from
the same vendor and examined the markings or have you inquired of the
vendor or do you have a TV Crime Show Magic Image Sharpening Tool that lets
you read markings that are smaller than a single pixel from the photo on
ebay or what?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 15:23:30
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:14:42 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > wrote:
>rated for 250C. Are you basing your assertion on having bought some from
>the same vendor and examined the markings or have you inquired of the
>vendor or do you have a TV Crime Show Magic Image Sharpening Tool that lets
>you read markings that are smaller than a single pixel from the photo on
>ebay or what?
felix inquired of the vendor. the blue is UL1213, which is 105C and
only 150v, but the guy is claiming it's 200C because all the other
wire is "made from the same materials" but Mil-Spec 200C and not UL.
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 18:32:10
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Grainger -- for hi-temp wire
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Grainger.com
Tempco
type TGGT insulation -- good for 482F 250C -- that should be MORE
than enuf.
various gauges -- 100 foot spools.
Dave
Saeco /Gaggia service SE
houdina wrote:
> Does anyone know a good source for hi-temp wire ? I am rewiring a LM
> and looking for the correct wire. I would rather not have to buy 500ft
> of each color and size I need.
> Gregg
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 01:13:26
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 24 Jul 2006 15:59:18 -0700, "houdina" <houdina@gmail.com > wrote:
>Does anyone know a good source for hi-temp wire ? I am rewiring a LM
>and looking for the correct wire. I would rather not have to buy 500ft
>of each color and size I need.
>Gregg
I would try your local auto parts store. Much of that wire is expected
to withstand underhood temperatures, which can be comparable to or
even higher than those experienced inside an espresso machine,
especially during Summer. Look at the ratings, of course, but in my
experience good deals on small spools can be had. Only trouble for me
has been that for whatever reason I can't seem to find white wire, so
I revert to using red for hot and black for neutral. Confusing at
first, but you get used to it.
Good luck!
Paul
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:42:24
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:13:26 GMT, Paul Monaghan
<monaghan@shorelinelegal.com > wrote:
>Only trouble for me
>has been that for whatever reason I can't seem to find white wire, so
>I revert to using red for hot and black for neutral. Confusing at
>first, but you get used to it.
Thinking about it further, you could of course use black for hot and
yellow for neutral, which is how I wired my popper, and which makes
more sense if you have a familiarity with modern AC wiring (in the
US).
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 12:31:25
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Go on, just use the one colour, should be right!
:)
> Does anyone know a good source for hi-temp wire ? I am rewiring a LM
> and looking for the correct wire. I would rather not have to buy 500ft
> of each color and size I need.
> Gregg
>
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 06:10:46
From: houdina
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On 24 Jul 2006 20:29:14 -0700, "jggall01" <jggall01@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >UL1015 wire will probably match original.
> >
>
> original is UL3135 and another number which escapes me at the mo', but
> which is equally difficult to obtain. the one online source that
> would actually respond to email requests is out of stock until the
> middle of august.
Barry, what gauge wiring does LM use in their machines?
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 13:47:46
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 25 Jul 2006 06:10:46 -0700, "houdina" <houdina@gmail.com > wrote:
>Barry, what gauge wiring does LM use in their machines?
i'm pretty sure the bulk of it (except for element wiring) is 18
gauge, but i usually use 16 ga. the element wiring is 10 ga, i think.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 20:39:48
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Barry Jarrett responds:
> i've used teflon jacketed wire for some applications, but the
> lack of flexibility can be a drawback on some of the hookups.
Mine is very stiff. Some of it is 14 awg tightly twisted into pairs,
and the rest is 12 awg with thicker insulation than usual. Both use
PTFE. I think Tefzel only goes to 150C, but what about the rest of the
fluoropolymer family? Strand gauge is also a factor. To compensate for
the extra insulation, my 12 awg is made from finer strands. The cost of
silver plating is an issue, but sometimes it's fun to scour the 'net
for sources of surplus goods. (For a long time, I've been intrigued by
the odd lots sold by Surplus Sales of Nebraska.)
As for stripping ... silicone isn't bad, but Teflon slips off as fast
as a shmoo jumps into a skillet :-)
My point is that automotive hookup wire and temporarily (?) scarce
UL1335 aren't the only alternatives.
Felix
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 19:10:07
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Barry Jarrett writes:
> >UL1015 wire will probably match original.
>
> original is UL3135 and another number which escapes me at the mo',
> but which is equally difficult to obtain.
I believe 1015 is only rated to 105C, whereas 3135 is 200C. 105C might
be adequate, but why skimp on a LM?
3135 wears a silicone jacket, You can get 200C/600V wire in less
flexible jackets that would probably be adequate and easier to strip,
e.g. McMaster-Carr 7304K14, but silver-plated strands cost more ...
I think I may have wired something exclusively with white-jacketed
cable, coloring different parts of the circuit with permanent markers.
I hope I don't do that again :-)
Felix
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 02:27:04
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 25 Jul 2006 19:10:07 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>3135 wears a silicone jacket, You can get 200C/600V wire in less
>flexible jackets that would probably be adequate and easier to strip,
>e.g. McMaster-Carr 7304K14, but silver-plated strands cost more ...
>
silicone is easy to strip.. it's that darned fiberglass or
silicone/fiberglass that's so tedious.
the stock wire is Silicones Inc UL3135, 200C 600v.
i've used teflon jacketed wire for some applications, but the lack of
flexibility can be a drawback on some of the hookups.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 12:31:24
From: houdina
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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This company http://www.tanstaafl-cable.com/sf2.html has fiberglass
jacketed colored wire in stock. For some reason all I can find in just
silicone has to be ordered from China. May be we should get a large
enough order together and do a group buy.
Gregg
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2006 19:10:07 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >3135 wears a silicone jacket, You can get 200C/600V wire in less
> >flexible jackets that would probably be adequate and easier to strip,
> >e.g. McMaster-Carr 7304K14, but silver-plated strands cost more ...
> >
>
> silicone is easy to strip.. it's that darned fiberglass or
> silicone/fiberglass that's so tedious.
>
> the stock wire is Silicones Inc UL3135, 200C 600v.
>
> i've used teflon jacketed wire for some applications, but the lack of
> flexibility can be a drawback on some of the hookups.
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 03:41:08
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 26 Jul 2006 12:31:24 -0700, "houdina" <houdina@gmail.com > wrote:
>This company http://www.tanstaafl-cable.com/sf2.html has fiberglass
>jacketed colored wire in stock.
that stuff is a pita to work with.... which is why, i guess, marzocco
switched to silicone (all my older machines use fiberglass wire).
i'd go teflon before going glass.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 19:59:07
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Now that's a cool name for a web site. TANSTAAFL indeed! Over the years the
acronym has been shortened even farther, to; "There aint no free lunches!",
or TANFL. Much easier to use verbally & just as meaningful.
--
Robert (a true believer in the wisdom of TANFL) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"houdina" <houdina@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1153942284.349624.238820@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This company http://www.tanstaafl-cable.com/sf2.html has fiberglass
> jacketed colored wire in stock. For some reason all I can find in just
> silicone has to be ordered from China. May be we should get a large
> enough order together and do a group buy.
> Gregg
> Barry Jarrett wrote:
>> On 25 Jul 2006 19:10:07 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >3135 wears a silicone jacket, You can get 200C/600V wire in less
>> >flexible jackets that would probably be adequate and easier to strip,
>> >e.g. McMaster-Carr 7304K14, but silver-plated strands cost more ...
>> >
>>
>> silicone is easy to strip.. it's that darned fiberglass or
>> silicone/fiberglass that's so tedious.
>>
>> the stock wire is Silicones Inc UL3135, 200C 600v.
>>
>> i've used teflon jacketed wire for some applications, but the lack of
>> flexibility can be a drawback on some of the hookups.
>
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 18:17:20
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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B.S.
Felix
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Date: 30 Jul 2006 08:39:05
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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daveb wrote:
> B.S.
To what, specifically, were you referring?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 30 Jul 2006 07:19:34
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > wrote in message
news:eaiahc0191t@news2.newsguy.com...
> daveb wrote:
>
> > B.S.
>
> To what, specifically, were you referring?
>
LOL! My guess is it'd be about the part of him turning over a new leaf :-)
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 17:54:11
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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houdina wrote:
> For some reason all I can find in just silicone has to be
> ordered from China.
With the caveat that I know nothing about how wire is routed inside
your machine, I have to say that I wonder why you and Barry both have
wires that cannot be reused, i.e. if the OEM wire is truly adequate.
Manufacturers balance cost, quality, and assembly convenience when
selecting materials/parts. Rebuilding only one machine, you might be
willing to spend more to get better quality or more convenience, or
endure a bit of inconvenience to produce a more durable result.
I have an integrated amplifier that I built from a kit that specified
that the input signal wires should run across half the back of the
case, past the output terminals, along the right side to the front,
past the headphone jack and the LED indicator, to the potentiometer.
The route along the left side is shorter, but it passes the power cord,
power transformer, etc. I created a short route below the circuit
board, by attaching conduits (plastic coffee stirrers!) to the base.
On the other hand, you bought one of the first Bumper knock boxes
(right?), so maybe you could ask Paul if he uses something like UL3135
when he replaces LM wire and ...
Felix
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Date: 29 Jul 2006 04:26:38
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 28 Jul 2006 17:54:11 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>With the caveat that I know nothing about how wire is routed inside
>your machine, I have to say that I wonder why you and Barry both have
>wires that cannot be reused, i.e. if the OEM wire is truly adequate.
it depends. on my 4-group, i reused the complete glass braided wire
harness, but i had to go through and replace or put heat shrink tube
on every connector. the insulator on the connectors seems to be very
vulnerable to the prolonged heat exposure, as are the terminal blocks.
in other machines, the wires have been overly dirty, damaged, missing,
or otherwise in need of replacement. keep in mind i'm rebuilding some
machines that were moments away from a dumpster, after years of hard
use/abuse/neglect. also, if i modify the wiring for PID or other
systems, it's nice to match up the new wires with the original.
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Date: 30 Jul 2006 20:53:03
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Barry Jarrett writes:
> keep in mind i'm rebuilding some machines that were moments
> away from a dumpster, after years of hard use/abuse/neglect.
That sounds like the norm for ex-restaurant machines ... I have some
sympathy for the designer(s) in these situations, but also know there
are situations where the designer is supposed to anticipate abuse.
If you decide to use Teflon-insulated wire for your current LM project,
you should consider buying it via eBay. There's a 16 awg listing that
looks appropriate:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260013238866
I'll mail you more information.
Felix
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Date: 30 Jul 2006 23:43:46
From: Paul Pratt
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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Felix wrote:
> Barry Jarrett writes:
> > keep in mind i'm rebuilding some machines that were moments
> > away from a dumpster, after years of hard use/abuse/neglect.
>
> That sounds like the norm for ex-restaurant machines ... I have some
> sympathy for the designer(s) in these situations, but also know there
> are situations where the designer is supposed to anticipate abuse.
>
> If you decide to use Teflon-insulated wire for your current LM project,
> you should consider buying it via eBay. There's a 16 awg listing that
> looks appropriate:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260013238866
>
> I'll mail you more information.
>
>
> Felix
Yes that stuff looks good. I do indeed use 18AWG UL3135 silicone wire
for the control and then silicone with fiber glass insulation for the
heating elements.
I think the main reason a lot of the old machines need to be rewired is
not really one of safety but on aesthetics - although safety is another
big cocern. They almost all have used fiber insulation and many
machines I have only 1 colour of wire. After a while it all looks
pretty grotty.
The other point to bear in mind is the type of quick crimp connectors
that have been used. If it is the 2 piece type VERY commonly used in
Italy where the sleeved cover slides on over the crimped brass part, it
has a tendency to become brittle after a few years. If you then try
and pull that from the switch it is attched to more often than not it
will shatter. Therefore you must then cut the brass part away and strip
the wire - in the process you are removing as much as 3-4cm of wire
which is enough to leave you short, hence a little new wire is needed.
I mentioned to Greg and Barry that I could send some (once I find it
after we unpack boxes at our new office) but it is really heavy.
Paul
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 16:16:58
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Good source for hi-temp wire
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On 30 Jul 2006 23:43:46 -0700, "Paul Pratt" <paul@just-java.com >
wrote:
>not really one of safety but on aesthetics - although safety is another
>big cocern. They almost all have used fiber insulation and many
>machines I have only 1 colour of wire. After a while it all looks
>pretty grotty.
>
one thing i've found is some of the glass braid wires will lose their
coloration, with formerly red or blue wires becoming white (if only
for a portion of their run). it can be very confusing when tracing
wires....
finding teflon is no problem; there are several reliable sources.
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