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Main
Date: 09 Jun 2006 20:50:50
From: katy
Subject: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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...how is that different from a grinder?
Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
Thank you and have a nice day.
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 05:06:01
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 21:52:53
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1149911450.121390.257220@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> ...how is that different from a grinder?
>
> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
> Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>
> How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
> Thank you and have a nice day.
>
> --Katy
> http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
>
Brewing coffee is an extraction process. If the pieces of the roasted beans
have a wide range of sizes you get a wide range of amount soluables coming
out of them from too little to too much for a given brew.
What you get with a 'good' burr grinder, not just any burr grinder, say a
mazzer, is a tight distribution of particle sizes.
The beans are shaved into evenly sized pieces.
What's so good about that? well then you can control the brewing process so
that you get the tastes you want in the cup, just so.
When the particle sizes are unevenly distributed you'll get a range from
underextracted through extracted with that being reflected in the taste. And
after all the taste is what it's all about.
OTOH this is not to say that with fresh beans and a blade grinder you can't
get a good cup, it's just that with the same beans and a better grinder you
getter a better tasting cup, be it espresso or brewed.
Until you have tasted the difference it's hard to accept. Those little beans
are clever and they know. They won't give up their best unless you treat
them nice. :-)
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 00:27:14
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1149911450.121390.257220@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> ...how is that different from a grinder?
None really
> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
Because they are not skilled enough to use a blade grinder or a hammer
properly.
Some here are coffee snobs and feel it is a status symbol to own an
expensive burr grinder.
> Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
Yup, you got it. Just pass some hot water over 'em and you got coffee.
> How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
Like some snobs here, they don't have a clue.
> Thank you and have a nice day.
>
> --Katy
> http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
>
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 21:54:11
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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"Hugh Jass" <* > wrote in message news:e6dhnb01i60@news3.newsguy.com...
>
FWIW is back...
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 21:59:23
From: Jas Huge
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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"Johnny" <removethis.huuanito@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:8fsig.102963$iU2.49870@fed1read01...
>
> "Hugh Jass" <*> wrote in message news:e6dhnb01i60@news3.newsguy.com...
> >
> FWIW is back...
>
>
Looks liek somoene esle to me. This one seems to noe more
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 06:17:41
From: Wavy G
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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The results are in...Hugh Jass, you are NOT the father!
>
>"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1149911450.121390.257220@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> ...how is that different from a grinder?
>
>None really
>
>> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
>Because they are not skilled enough to use a blade grinder or a hammer
>properly.
>Some here are coffee snobs and feel it is a status symbol to own an
>expensive burr grinder.
I can do you won better: I've got a set of "Monday" through "Sunday"
coffee grinders for every day of the week.
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 10:04:56
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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I'm sorry the resident alt.coffee kooks brainwashed you.
Maybe you can recover some of the money you've wasted
by ebaying the grinders and just using Katy's hammer?
"Wavy G" <Worldsaviour@Chosen1.org > wrote in message
news:u5rn82pea1c3jgb3bkkaijkcabjon7pctg@4ax.com...
>
> I can do you won better: I've got a set of "Monday" through "Sunday"
> coffee grinders for every day of the week.
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 18:55:54
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:56 -0400, "Hugh Jass" <* > wrote:
> Katy's hammer?
a great name for a coffee joint.
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 15:51:48
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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Exactly! I think you're on to something.
Like those nutcakes that think stoneground flour tastes better than the
commercial stuff,
Katy's Hammer could attract the coffee nutcakes that would want hammer
processed ground coffee.
If the hammer was made out of platinum and manufactured in Italy, all the
better.
"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:7uoo82lppamber92vtqql1donuqdt7vb0l@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:56 -0400, "Hugh Jass" <*> wrote:
>
> > Katy's hammer?
>
>
> a great name for a coffee joint.
>
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 15:06:41
From: Alice Faber
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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In article <7uoo82lppamber92vtqql1donuqdt7vb0l@4ax.com >,
Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:56 -0400, "Hugh Jass" <*> wrote:
>
> > Katy's hammer?
>
>
> a great name for a coffee joint.
Or a band.
--
AF
"Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
--artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 14:27:48
From: Wavy G
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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The results are in...Alice Faber, you are NOT the father!
>In article <7uoo82lppamber92vtqql1donuqdt7vb0l@4ax.com>,
> Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:56 -0400, "Hugh Jass" <*> wrote:
>>
>> > Katy's hammer?
>>
>>
>> a great name for a coffee joint.
>
>Or a band.
"Katy's Hammer" sucks, man! They are such sellouts.
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 13:47:53
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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"Wavy G" <Worldsaviour@Chosen1.org > wrote in message
news:mecr82p7soedpb86anascahra2h31acsn9@4ax.com...
> >> > Katy's hammer?
> >>
> >> a great name for a coffee joint.
> >
> >Or a band.
>
> "Katy's Hammer" sucks, man! They are such sellouts.
and that "Katy's Kataclysmic Koffee Krusher" is good for a quick cup I
hear.
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 22:00:34
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:47:53 -0700, "Johnny"
<removethis.huuanito@hotmail.com > wrote:
>and that "Katy's Kataclysmic Koffee Krusher" is good for a quick cup I
>hear.
Has to be better than Maxwell House's Silver Hammer coming down upon
the bean.
;-)
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 14:51:36
From: bizbee
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 00:27:14 -0400 in <e6dhnb01i60@news3.newsguy.com >,
"Hugh Jass" <* > graced the world with this thought:
>Some here are coffee snobs and feel it is a status symbol to own an
>expensive burr grinder.
Yes, by all means... individual grain size wouldn't figure into this
at all, would it..?
Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 20:29:08
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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Grain size??? ROFLMAO!
Clearly you have been brainwashed by the Foreign Coffee Grinder
Manufacturers Association.
"bizbee" <tuberoo@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:Ybfjg.4777$lf4.1190@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Yes, by all means... individual grain size wouldn't figure into this
> at all, would it..?
> Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Date: 13 Jun 2006 01:02:03
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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Dang it big butt, get the titles straight. It's the Pinko Commie Foreign
Coffee Grinder
Manufacturers Association.
RH
"Hugh Jass" <* > wrote in message news:e6l1j502usf@news4.newsguy.com...
> Grain size??? ROFLMAO!
>
> Clearly you have been brainwashed by the Foreign Coffee Grinder
> Manufacturers Association.
>
> "bizbee" <tuberoo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Ybfjg.4777$lf4.1190@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Yes, by all means... individual grain size wouldn't figure into this
>> at all, would it..?
>> Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 22:06:51
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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Sometimes the coffee kooks and their whacky ideas get
me laughing so hard my wife has to drop an anvil on my
toe to get me to stop.
I can just see some of the fanatics here straining their
coffee grounds thru a series of screens, throwing away
the particles that are to small and reprocessing the ones
that are too big.
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:f8ojg.4985$lf4.581@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Dang it big butt, get the titles straight. It's the Pinko Commie Foreign
> Coffee Grinder
> Manufacturers Association.
>
> RH
>
> "Hugh Jass" <*> wrote in message news:e6l1j502usf@news4.newsguy.com...
>> Grain size??? ROFLMAO!
>>
>> Clearly you have been brainwashed by the Foreign Coffee Grinder
>> Manufacturers Association.
>>
>> "bizbee" <tuberoo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:Ybfjg.4777$lf4.1190@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>> Yes, by all means... individual grain size wouldn't figure into this
>>> at all, would it..?
>>> Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>
>
>
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 02:17:11
From: Alan
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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"Hugh Jass" <* > wrote
> Sometimes the coffee kooks and their whacky ideas get
> me laughing so hard my wife has to drop an anvil on my
> toe to get me to stop.
>
> I can just see some of the fanatics here straining their
> coffee grounds thru a series of screens, throwing away
> the particles that are to small and reprocessing the ones
> that are too big.
You're suggesting *re-grinding* the big particles!!??!! Do you have any
idea how much of the volatile oils had been lost in the first grinding, and
what an inferior product you'd end up with if you practiced re-grinding?
Sorry, even for the big guys --- flunk the screen test first time around, no
second auditions . . . out the door they go with the "fines" . . . ;)
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Date: 13 Jun 2006 23:25:26
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:HkKjg.24110$VE1.16792@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Hugh Jass" <*> wrote
>> Sometimes the coffee kooks and their whacky ideas get
>> me laughing so hard my wife has to drop an anvil on my
>> toe to get me to stop.
>>
>> I can just see some of the fanatics here straining their
>> coffee grounds thru a series of screens, throwing away
>> the particles that are to small and reprocessing the ones
>> that are too big.
>
> You're suggesting *re-grinding* the big particles!!??!! Do you have any
> idea how much of the volatile oils had been lost in the first grinding,
> and what an inferior product you'd end up with if you practiced
> re-grinding? Sorry, even for the big guys --- flunk the screen test first
> time around, no second auditions . . . out the door they go with the
> "fines" . . . ;)
>
hahahhahahha "Honey!" hehehehhahahahahohohoho "Bring the anvil"
hehehehhahahahahheheheh
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 07:55:31
From:
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
katy wrote:
> ...how is that different from a grinder?
>
> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
...snip...
> Thank you and have a nice day.
>
> --Katy
> http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
Katy,
If I am only brewing for myself I use a regular nail hammer (fiberglass
handle, they don't splinter).
If company is coming over, however, I need to go the sledgehammer route
due to the increase in volume of beans to be smashed. Using the nail
hammer just takes too long.
Marty
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 07:03:38
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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Pay no attention, Katy. The internet is full of people who feel a need
to be ugly to others.
Other folks have explained; I will merely reinforce one point....try
the taste test. Find someone who has a good burr grinder and do a
comparison of the same coffee brewed the same way but ground with GOOD
burrs versus blades. Then you can draw your own conclusion.
I'm betting you'll agree with the vast majority of us that the
consistent particle size makes a worthwhile improvement in the taste.
OTOH, if the coffee you make with the blade grinder works fine for you,
go with it and don't let anyone make you feel like an ignoramus.
Will
"The human capacity for gratuitous nastiness is nearly boundless."
daveb wrote:
> WOW! vicious insults from exline!
>
>
> ouch.
>
> dave
> Jim Exline wrote:
> > katy wrote:
> > > ...how is that different from a grinder?
> >
> > If you really need to ask- why do I feel that you really don't "need"
> > to ask- you obviously ain't "been there, done that"!
> >
> > >Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
> >
> > Never mind- someone of your obvious intellect, or in this case- lack of
> > intellect, wouldn't care- or in your case, wouldn't have the intellect
> > to know the difference!
> >
> > > Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
> >
> > Sure- in your case, it's probably better off, if that's what you
> > believe!
> >
> > > How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
> >
> > Just so you can sleep better tonight- they don't know, nor do they
> > care.
> >
> > > Thank you and have a nice day.
> >
> > Thanks- just knowing that some of the issues that keep you up at night
> > have been answered will assure that I've had a nice day!
> >
> > Also- yuo may want to seek professional help, as it appears very
> > obviously that you need it! If posting your bullshit to whatever
> > newsgroup meets your fancy is your idea of an entertainig evening,
> > please take your meds, and seek professional help!
> >
> > Jim E
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 06:15:57
From: daveb
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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WOW! vicious insults from exline!
ouch.
dave
Jim Exline wrote:
> katy wrote:
> > ...how is that different from a grinder?
>
> If you really need to ask- why do I feel that you really don't "need"
> to ask- you obviously ain't "been there, done that"!
>
> >Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
> Never mind- someone of your obvious intellect, or in this case- lack of
> intellect, wouldn't care- or in your case, wouldn't have the intellect
> to know the difference!
>
> > Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>
> Sure- in your case, it's probably better off, if that's what you
> believe!
>
> > How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
> Just so you can sleep better tonight- they don't know, nor do they
> care.
>
> > Thank you and have a nice day.
>
> Thanks- just knowing that some of the issues that keep you up at night
> have been answered will assure that I've had a nice day!
>
> Also- yuo may want to seek professional help, as it appears very
> obviously that you need it! If posting your bullshit to whatever
> newsgroup meets your fancy is your idea of an entertainig evening,
> please take your meds, and seek professional help!
>
> Jim E
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 06:14:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
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What if someone changed the burrs WITHOUT YOU KNOWING?
how would the taste be then??
a blind test.
Dave
Saeco / Gaggia service SE
877 286-2833
Randy G. wrote:
> If you have never used a quality grinder it is difficult to imagine
> how a $300 tool could possibly be that much better than a $19 tool-
> powered or not. Once you do get a decent grinder the difference is
> immediately distinguishable.
>
> Johnny's response was excellent. Getting down to the most basic
> improvement, lesser grinders (like hammers or whirley blade devices)
> create a lot of dust- coffee fines. It happens with the "affordable"
> burr grinders as well, particularly when they have been used for a few
> months and the burrs dull. These fines end up in the cup and add a lot
> of bitterness to the taste.
>
> Go to my website and see chapter 79 where there are images of cheap
> burrs.
>
> Still, even with excellent grinders it is important to change the
> burrs once in a while. I just did (again) and noticed an immediate
> improvement.
>
>
> Randy "really" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
> "katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >...how is that different from a grinder?
> >
> >Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
> >
> >Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
> >
> >How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
> >
> >Thank you and have a nice day.
> >
> >--Katy
> >http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 08:36:42
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
> ...how is that different from a grinder?
>
> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
> Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>
> How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
> Thank you and have a nice day.
>
> --Katy
Katy, If the only tool in my tool box was a hammer, I'd use it to make coffee,
too! You ask, "How do the beans know?" This begs the questions why smack the
beans into smaller pieces to begin with? And, why not make coffee from whole
beans? The answer to both are that the flavors cannot travel through that much
of the bean. Making the beans smaller increases surface area and reduces the
distance flavor has to travel from inside to outside.
When you smack a bean with a hammer, or use a whirly blade grinder, you make big
and little chunks. The big chunks won't don't give up all their flavor to the
water, they are under-extracted. While the little chunks, the fine dust, will
over-extract, giving up bitter flavors. What you end up with is a weak, bitter
cup of coffee.
Dan
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 15:01:10
From: Alan
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"Dan Bollinger" wrote
("katy" wrote)
>> ...how is that different from a grinder?
>>
>> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>>
>> Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>>
>> How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>>
>> Thank you and have a nice day.
>>
>> --Katy
>
> Katy, If the only tool in my tool box was a hammer, I'd use it to make
> coffee, too! You ask, "How do the beans know?" This begs the questions
> why smack the beans into smaller pieces to begin with? And, why not make
> coffee from whole beans? The answer to both are that the flavors cannot
> travel through that much of the bean. Making the beans smaller increases
> surface area and reduces the distance flavor has to travel from inside to
> outside.
>
> When you smack a bean with a hammer, or use a whirly blade grinder, you
> make big and little chunks. The big chunks won't don't give up all their
> flavor to the water, they are under-extracted. While the little chunks,
> the fine dust, will over-extract, giving up bitter flavors. What you end
> up with is a weak, bitter cup of coffee.
>
> Dan
What you have to say about relative size of the chunks is true: with a blade
grinder the chunk size will be inconsistent, while a burr grinder (in good
working order) will produce uniform chunks. Since a certain size of chunk
is optimal for certain brewing devices (both in terms of physical production
and in terms of resulting flavor), consistency is good. If your espresso
machine or your drip brewer or whatever works better and produces
better-tasting coffee with grind "b", for example, it's better to have all
your chunks at size "b", rather than having some of them of at size "c" and
some at size "a".
I do take issue, however, with your statement that "fine dust will
over-extract, giving up bitter flavors". It depends on what you do with
your "fine dust".
My grandmother in Yemen made what I believe to be the best coffee I've ever
tasted, using what would certainly be described as a "fine dust". After
having roasted the beans in a dry pot over her counter-top "butagaz" stove,
she'd put them in her old brass mortar and pulverize them with the heavy
brass pestle. This method (only slightly more advanced than katy's proposed
hammer-smash method) produced a "fine dust" only slightly coarser than
flour. This "fine dust" she then brewed "Turkish-style" (i.e. cold water,
bring near a boil, knock the bottom on the stove, etc. -- everyone's got
their own little ritual) in a tiny pot. The result was the most delicious
"crema"-laden little cafecito I've ever had ---- just had to have enough
sense not to drink the sediment at the bottom.
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 23:49:06
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
If you have never used a quality grinder it is difficult to imagine
how a $300 tool could possibly be that much better than a $19 tool-
powered or not. Once you do get a decent grinder the difference is
immediately distinguishable.
Johnny's response was excellent. Getting down to the most basic
improvement, lesser grinders (like hammers or whirley blade devices)
create a lot of dust- coffee fines. It happens with the "affordable"
burr grinders as well, particularly when they have been used for a few
months and the burrs dull. These fines end up in the cup and add a lot
of bitterness to the taste.
Go to my website and see chapter 79 where there are images of cheap
burrs.
Still, even with excellent grinders it is important to change the
burrs once in a while. I just did (again) and noticed an immediate
improvement.
Randy "really" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote:
>...how is that different from a grinder?
>
>Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
>Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>
>How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
>Thank you and have a nice day.
>
>--Katy
>http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 22:42:12
From: Jim Exline
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
katy wrote:
> ...how is that different from a grinder?
If you really need to ask- why do I feel that you really don't "need"
to ask- you obviously ain't "been there, done that"!
>Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
Never mind- someone of your obvious intellect, or in this case- lack of
intellect, wouldn't care- or in your case, wouldn't have the intellect
to know the difference!
> Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
Sure- in your case, it's probably better off, if that's what you
believe!
> How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
Just so you can sleep better tonight- they don't know, nor do they
care.
> Thank you and have a nice day.
Thanks- just knowing that some of the issues that keep you up at night
have been answered will assure that I've had a nice day!
Also- yuo may want to seek professional help, as it appears very
obviously that you need it! If posting your bullshit to whatever
newsgroup meets your fancy is your idea of an entertainig evening,
please take your meds, and seek professional help!
Jim E
|
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:48:09
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Jim Exline wrote:
> To all of you who rode your high horse, and bitched about those of us-
> yeah- I'm probably at the top of your list, second only to Dave B, who
> are so "malicious" to the "newbies"- I told you so!
Yeah, you guys!
> The OP here was
> obviously baiting the regulars here, and some of you bit- "hook, line,
> and sinker"!
No, I wasn't! I had a real question about grinding coffee! A question
I've been thinking about for a long time and really wanted an answer
to! Why can't you accept that? I have a real coffee question. And
the nice people here answered it for me! So thank you, nice people!!
Thanks to you all!!
--Katy
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:29:09
From: Jim Exline
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
katy wrote:
> Jim Exline wrote:
> Jim, thank you for your reply! You're right; I haven't ain't ever been
> there. I hear it's very nice this time of year and I hope to go there
> someday when I save up enough money.
> > Never mind- someone of your obvious intellect, or in this case- lack of
> > intellect, wouldn't care- or in your case, wouldn't have the intellect
> > to know the difference!
> I think it goes, "...and the wisdom to know the difference." You went
> to all the meetings; you should know this by now.
>
> And I'll have you know, I have a very *high* below-average
> intelligence! (Okay, I can't take credit for that joke; I got it from
> an old Robert Benchley book and have always liked it.)
>
>
> > Thanks- just knowing that some of the issues that keep you up at night
> > have been answered will assure that I've had a nice day!
>
>
> Terrific! You are swell for saying so!
>
>
> > Also- you may want to seek professional help, as it appears very
> > obviously that you need it! If posting your bullshit to whatever
> > newsgroup meets your fancy is your idea of an entertainig evening,
> > please take your meds, and seek professional help!
>
>
> Just because I' use coffee filters to cover my windows and store my
> coffee beans up my nose does not mean I need professional help, but
> nonetheless that's what they keep telling me. The beans, that is.
> They tell me lots of things. But hey, thanks for your concern! I do
> need a little neosporin on this cut I have; is that what you mean by
> medication?
>
>
> --Katy
> http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
To all of you who rode your high horse, and bitched about those of us-
yeah- I'm probably at the top of your list, second only to Dave B, who
are so "malicious" to the "newbies"- I told you so! The OP here was
obviously baiting the regulars here, and some of you bit- "hook, line,
and sinker"! I'll admit- I've been wrong in the past in regards to
newbies, and I have no problem apologizing when I've been wrong and
misunderstood a newbie's intent. However- it is very satisfying to get
one right every once in a while! As far as the "treatment" of newbies,
of course they should be granted the right to be heard and understood!
As far as "doofusses" who are bored and are merely passing time by
bullshitting everyone here, those same "rights" should never be
extended to them- instead- the old "you wanna play, you gotta pay"
rights should be extended to these jokers! I call 'em like I see 'em-
right or wrong. This time- I saw 'em for what they really were!
Jim E
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:17:35
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Phil Paintin wrote:
> It's similar to the arguments that garlic tastes better crushed rather
> than sliced, or basil tastes better ripped than chopped -- can people
> *really* tell the difference ?
You took the words right out of my mouth, Phillip! Like the old saying
goes, "ripped and chopped only counts in vasectomies and horseshoes."
Or something like that.
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:15:46
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
martyminor11@yahoo.com wrote:
> If I am only brewing for myself I use a regular nail hammer (fiberglass
> handle, they don't splinter).
> If company is coming over, however, I need to go the sledgehammer route
> due to the increase in volume of beans to be smashed. Using the nail
> hammer just takes too long.
Oh. My. God. Marty. You totally just saved me from a serious social
faux pas! I actually have company coming over and would you believe
it, I had the regular claw hammer out! Imagine my embarrasment had
Mrs. Dubois seen that out on the table! So thank you. Thank you sooo
much!!
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:13:28
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Alan wrote:
> I do take issue, however, with your statement that "fine dust will
> over-extract, giving up bitter flavors".
Hey, Alan! I totally took issue with that statement, too! Ha ha! I
feel a kinship with you because of this. I might be making too much
out of this simultaneous issue-taking, but I think I feel a hug and a
moment coming on.
Thank you for being just that cool!
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 12:12:19
From: Alan
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" wrote
>
> Alan wrote:
>
>> I do take issue, however, with your statement that "fine dust will
>> over-extract, giving up bitter flavors".
>
>
> Hey, Alan! I totally took issue with that statement, too! Ha ha! I
> feel a kinship with you because of this. I might be making too much
> out of this simultaneous issue-taking, but I think I feel a hug and a
> moment coming on.
>
> Thank you for being just that cool!
>
>
> --Katy
Sure thing.
Come on over --- we can brew up some fine dust and have a hug :)
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:11:25
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Dan Bollinger wrote:
> Katy, If the only tool in my tool box was a hammer, I'd use it to make coffee,
> too!
Thanks, Dan B.! Question: What if the only tool in my tool box was a
Sears tape measure and some wood glue? Could I then also make coffee?
If so, what kind of creamer should I then use? Thank you!!
> And, why not make coffee from whole
> beans? The answer to both are that the flavors cannot travel through that much
> of the bean.
I will assume this is a rhetorical question. In episode 11 of Star
Trek, "Traveler's By," the transporter was set up so as to make flavors
travel through things, and I would assume that would include coffee
beans. Roddenberry, so...
> When you smack a bean with a hammer, or use a whirly blade grinder, you make big
> and little chunks.
Hold on, what?? I've been using my grinder to drink out of! Geez,
I'm an idiot. Sorry!!
Thank you, Dan!! You're a good sport!
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 07:08:25
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
> Thanks, Dan B.! Question: What if the only tool in my tool box was a
> Sears tape measure and some wood glue? Could I then also make coffee?
> If so, what kind of creamer should I then use? Thank you!!
Katherin, (may I call you Katherine?) Obviously, you use Elmer's White Glue as
your creamer. ;)
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:07:19
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
daveb wrote:
> What if someone changed the burrs WITHOUT YOU KNOWING?
Aaaaiiiieeee! Oh, god, my worst nightmare!! Don't go there, daveb!!
--Katy
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:06:32
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Randy G. wrote:
> it is difficult to imagine
> how a $300 tool could possibly be that much better than a $19 tool-
> powered or not.
I know!! I still can't figure out how come the one that runs on "C"
batteries is so much quieter than the one that runs on "AA" batteries.
Wait, what kind of tools are we talking about?
> Go to my website and see chapter 79 where there are images of cheap
> burrs.
Raymond?
Thank you, Randall!
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 09:33:14
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>Randy G. wrote:
>
>> it is difficult to imagine
>> how a $300 tool could possibly be that much better than a $19 tool-
>> powered or not.
>
>
>I know!! I still can't figure out how come the one that runs on "C"
>batteries is so much quieter than the one that runs on "AA" batteries.
>Wait, what kind of tools are we talking about?
>
>
In either case, you will find if you use them directly out of the
charger that enhanced performance will be experienced! :-O
Randy "Heck YA, that's a BIG oh" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:04:00
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
> Pay no attention, Katy. The internet is full of people who feel a need
> to be ugly to others.
Oh, thank you, that doesn't bother me at all! It's the people that
actually *are* ugly, physically, that I have a problem with. I'm just
shallow that way, I'm sorry.
> Other folks have explained; I will merely reinforce one point....try
> the taste test.
You mean, right here?? Right now?? In front of people? That's kind
of risque, don't you think? Well, I'm up for anything.
> I'm betting you'll agree with the vast majority of us that the
> consistent particle size makes a worthwhile improvement in the taste.
I don't really understand what you just said, but you *are* right in
that I do always agree with what the vast majority says!
Thank you!!
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:00:28
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Jim Exline wrote:
> If you really need to ask- why do I feel that you really don't "need"
> to ask- you obviously ain't "been there, done that"!
Jim, thank you for your reply! You're right; I haven't ain't ever been
there. I hear it's very nice this time of year and I hope to go there
someday when I save up enough money.
> Never mind- someone of your obvious intellect, or in this case- lack of
> intellect, wouldn't care- or in your case, wouldn't have the intellect
> to know the difference!
I think it goes, "...and the wisdom to know the difference." You went
to all the meetings; you should know this by now.
And I'll have you know, I have a very *high* below-average
intelligence! (Okay, I can't take credit for that joke; I got it from
an old Robert Benchley book and have always liked it.)
> Thanks- just knowing that some of the issues that keep you up at night
> have been answered will assure that I've had a nice day!
Terrific! You are swell for saying so!
> Also- you may want to seek professional help, as it appears very
> obviously that you need it! If posting your bullshit to whatever
> newsgroup meets your fancy is your idea of an entertainig evening,
> please take your meds, and seek professional help!
Just because I' use coffee filters to cover my windows and store my
coffee beans up my nose does not mean I need professional help, but
nonetheless that's what they keep telling me. The beans, that is.
They tell me lots of things. But hey, thanks for your concern! I do
need a little neosporin on this cut I have; is that what you mean by
medication?
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 20:54:08
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
D. Ross wrote:
>
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 20:51:40
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Johnny wrote:
> If the pieces of the roasted beans
> have a wide range of sizes you get a wide range of amount soluables coming
> out of them
Would it be too simplistic to say that if you ground coffee beans
really really small (bad!) with any instrument at all, then the
resultant cup would hypothetically be the same? With this inferring
that it's the size of the grounds, not how they got ground?
> Until you have tasted the difference it's hard to accept. Those little beans
> are clever and they know. They won't give up their best unless you treat
> them nice. :-)
Johnny, tell me about it! Those little beans talk to me all day, first
telling me one thing, and then another. I finally took them out of my
pants and put them in a shoebox.
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 22:14:32
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1149997900.733010.113010@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Johnny wrote:
>
> > If the pieces of the roasted beans
> > have a wide range of sizes you get a wide range of amount soluables
coming
> > out of them
>
>
> Would it be too simplistic to say that if you ground coffee beans
> really really small (bad!) with any instrument at all, then the
> resultant cup would hypothetically be the same? With this inferring
> that it's the size of the grounds, not how they got ground?
>
Yes.
It's not bad to grind them really really small if it's for espresso or for
turkish where powder is the norm.
Yeah I left out a whole bunch of other stuff about what size they should be
as that depends on taste and experimentation.
In this case size matters :-)
Here's an analogy that you might be able to visualize:
on the computer screen there's a matrix of dots (mine right now is 1024x768
dots or picture elements, pixels for short) that are different colors but
they are all the same size dots within close tolerance. If, with the same
image information supplied to these dots the dot sizes had a wider range of
sizes it would introduce more distortion into the picture. That's what
happens with coffee with uneven particle sizes the taste gets distorted and
blurred.
In the case of images pixel size used depends on viewing distance, with
coffee it's related to brewing method and duration of the extraction.
For coffee there's a 'sweet spot' for each method of preparation where
coffee, roast of the coffee, freshness, time, temperature, grind (includes
particle size and uniformity), and water quality all come together for the
best cup. Like everything there's a balance to be reached between how much
time, money and energy you want to put into it versus what you get out of
it.
>
> > Until you have tasted the difference it's hard to accept. Those little
beans
> > are clever and they know. They won't give up their best unless you treat
> > them nice. :-)
>
>
> Johnny, tell me about it! Those little beans talk to me all day, first
> telling me one thing, and then another. I finally took them out of my
> pants and put them in a shoebox.
>
I prefer to keep my bean in a cannister where they just echo around the
walls talking to themselves and being homogeneous.
When I tried keeping them in my pocket the fluff picked up from the corners
of my pockets interfered with the brew, amd the beans made the fluff greasy
and so more difficult to clean. I think they call the coffee produced from
beans left in your pocket while going through the wash 'pokey thruwaash'.
These are not as sought after as Kopi Luwak coffee. I personally don't seek
either. :-)
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 20:47:48
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Hugh Jass wrote:
> > How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
> Like some snobs here, they don't have a clue.
Thank you, Hugh, for your reply. I didn't *think* that coffee beans
knew how they got into really, really small pieces. And you've
confirmed this for me. I went ahead and talked to some of my coffee
beans today (just the ones that were spying on me) and asked them if
they'd like to be whacked or burred. They shrugged and said we don't
care.
--Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 02:34:13
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Your intuition was correct! You're obviously smarter than the average poster
here!
But I worry about the poor newbie that wanders in to this group and takes
the advice of some of the whackjobs that frequent this group. First they'll
convince the newbie to buy a $700 hottop. After that, they'll be snookering
the poor sap into buying some overpriced foreign grinder. And of course this
coffee will only develop its full flavor if its brewed in a $300 SCAA
approved technivorm. God help the poor schmuck if he has a taste for
espresso. Sheesh!
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1149997668.639708.205350@m38g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hugh Jass wrote:
>
>> > How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>>
>> Like some snobs here, they don't have a clue.
>
>
>
> Thank you, Hugh, for your reply. I didn't *think* that coffee beans
> knew how they got into really, really small pieces. And you've
> confirmed this for me. I went ahead and talked to some of my coffee
> beans today (just the ones that were spying on me) and asked them if
> they'd like to be whacked or burred. They shrugged and said we don't
> care.
>
>
> --Katy
> http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
>
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 18:01:22
From: finding z0
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Johnny wrote:
> Brewing coffee is an extraction process. If the pieces of the roasted beans
> have a wide range of sizes you get a wide range of amount soluables coming
> out of them from too little to too much for a given brew.
> What you get with a 'good' burr grinder, not just any burr grinder, say a
> mazzer, is a tight distribution of particle sizes.
> The beans are shaved into evenly sized pieces.
> What's so good about that? well then you can control the brewing process so
> that you get the tastes you want in the cup, just so.
> When the particle sizes are unevenly distributed you'll get a range from
> underextracted through extracted with that being reflected in the taste. And
> after all the taste is what it's all about.
> OTOH this is not to say that with fresh beans and a blade grinder you can't
> get a good cup, it's just that with the same beans and a better grinder you
> getter a better tasting cup, be it espresso or brewed.
> Until you have tasted the difference it's hard to accept. Those little beans
> are clever and they know. They won't give up their best unless you treat
> them nice. :-)
Of course if all the particles are the same size, but you get it wrong,
you'll miss the best flavors. Now, however, in a melange grind (hammer,
whirlyblade, boot heel) at least some of the particles will be the
ideal size and give you some of the best flavors. Then there's the
issue of hot water residence time between homogeneous particles vs.
heterogeneous. One might make the case that too uniform a particle size
might inhibit flow vs. chunkage of various sizes. Of course fines slow
everything down. I brew so i don't really care. Well, maybe a little.
My wife bought me a burr grinder (plastic) several years ago, but I
don't use it as it also doubles as a tessler coil....
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:18:36
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"finding z0" <jsk2@excite.com > wrote in message
news:1149987682.056346.58370@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Johnny wrote:
>
> > Brewing coffee is an extraction process. If the pieces of the roasted
beans
> > have a wide range of sizes you get a wide range of amount soluables
coming
> > out of them from too little to too much for a given brew.
> > What you get with a 'good' burr grinder, not just any burr grinder, say
a
> > mazzer, is a tight distribution of particle sizes.
> > The beans are shaved into evenly sized pieces.
> > What's so good about that? well then you can control the brewing process
so
> > that you get the tastes you want in the cup, just so.
> > When the particle sizes are unevenly distributed you'll get a range
from
> > underextracted through extracted with that being reflected in the taste.
And
> > after all the taste is what it's all about.
> > OTOH this is not to say that with fresh beans and a blade grinder you
can't
> > get a good cup, it's just that with the same beans and a better grinder
you
> > getter a better tasting cup, be it espresso or brewed.
> > Until you have tasted the difference it's hard to accept. Those little
beans
> > are clever and they know. They won't give up their best unless you treat
> > them nice. :-)
>
> Of course if all the particles are the same size, but you get it wrong,
> you'll miss the best flavors.
So true, you can end up ALL over extracted or ALL under extracted.
OTOH when you get it right you don't miss...it's all about controlling the
brew/shot.
> Now, however, in a melange grind (hammer,
> whirlyblade, boot heel) at least some of the particles will be the
> ideal size and give you some of the best flavors.
And some of the worst....
Plus it's a little difficult to control the outcome when compared to a good
burr grinder.
> Then there's the
> issue of hot water residence time between homogeneous particles vs.
> heterogeneous.
Once again, with a good buur grinder, you can control the grind so you have
some control over this.
And the question of temperature, but that's outside the scope of the OP. As
you know there's more to good coffee than the grinder.
> One might make the case that too uniform a particle size
> might inhibit flow vs. chunkage of various sizes.
I've heard that argument. In fact if you look at Ken W's post in this thread
he talks about bi-modal and trimodal distributions.
> Of course fines slow
> everything down. I brew so i don't really care. Well, maybe a little.
I do both and IME you can tell the difference. I would not go back to
whirley blade unless there was no other choice, same applies to lesser burr
grinders, why bother. YMMV
The other thing you get with a 'good' burr grinder is very fine control over
the particle size so you can tune it in just right and it's reproduceable:
another key attribute, being able to make cup after cup consistently good.
The hammer is, pun intended, rather hit and miss as regards if you'll get a
good cup this time, all other things being equal
> My wife bought me a burr grinder (plastic) several years ago, but I
> don't use it as it also doubles as a tessler coil....
I have a plastic-cased ungrounded B&D burr grinder that is outcast behind
ashow piece antique grinder, out of sight and out of mind (until just now).
It does not fall into the class of 'good' grinder, not by a long shot.
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 12:56:26
From: Phil Paintin
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Ken Wilson wrote:
[snip interesting notes]
> I am sceptical as to whether the difference can be tasted between a sharp
> shaving and a blunt one.
It's similar to the arguments that garlic tastes better crushed rather
than sliced, or basil tastes better ripped than chopped -- can people
*really* tell the difference ?
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 21:37:37
From: Ken Wilson
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"Phil
> It's similar to the arguments that garlic tastes better crushed rather
> than sliced, or basil tastes better ripped than chopped -- can people
> *really* tell the difference ?
>
But martini's really have to be shaken and not stirred..
ken "yes - i do have some martini somewhere - pre phyloxera I think." W
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 18:45:31
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
> But martini's really have to be shaken and not stirred..
Only if you like a diluted martini. :)
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 06:23:49
From: Wavy G
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
The results are in...Phil Paintin, you are NOT the father!
>
>Ken Wilson wrote:
>
>[snip interesting notes]
>
>> I am sceptical as to whether the difference can be tasted between a sharp
>> shaving and a blunt one.
>
>It's similar to the arguments that garlic tastes better crushed rather
>than sliced, or basil tastes better ripped than chopped -- can people
>*really* tell the difference ?
Well, now they wouldn't be snobs if they couldn't, now would they?
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 19:32:22
From: Ken Wilson
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" <
> ...how is that different from a grinder?
>
> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
> Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
You seem to be getting some less than convincing answers.
Although I do like the UN quip.
There are some v much magnified pictures in one of the espresso books (was
it Illy? or one of Schomers websites?) which show the bean surface after it
had been whacked and after it had been shaved as with a decent burr grinder.
Its one of those molecular photos that make a gnats eye look like a child's
ball pit? Anyway the difference is astonishing with one looking like a
coral reef and you expect a conger eel to lurch out and the other is more
like, well, the moons surface. So that explains why there is a difference.
I am sceptical as to whether the difference can be tasted between a sharp
shaving and a blunt one.
The fines argument is valid. It makes the cup harder to wash up if you use
a french press, don't drink the final dregs (as one doesn't anyway) and
leave it till the following day. The fines set hard and its difficult to
get off. Of course, ANY grinder will leave fines (try cutting a round
object into perfect squares - you get little curvy bits left over?) but a
decent burr grinder will leave less.
Next the size distribution argument - all grinds should be the same size.
Well, actually, (as my 2 yr old says - wonder where he got that from?) Illy
(definitely him this time - or his coauthor Vianni - espresso coffee
chemistry pg 170) asserts that the correct distribution should be bi or even
trimodal and its an intermediate distribution between power-law and
log-normal (i don't know what the last bit means either - Mr R can explain
it for being so uncharacteristically unhelpful before :)
I plump for consistency. For espresso, one gradation on my rocky varies
the espresso pour by 10 seconds ish. there are 80 gradations in one turn
and, I forget although i counted them once, 10 turns to the centimetre?
Therefore 1 click is about 1/800 of a cm. Which is about ThiS much. Try
doing that consistently with a whirly blade or one of those grinders with
cheapo plastic burr mounts.
For espresso - its important.
for french press or any of the drip methods i am not so sure and there is an
argument for using a whirly blade, giving a 5 sec burst and a shake and then
another burst or two. The varied grind will give different extraction
rates and make the coffee more complex.
Ken
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 22:56:01
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Johnny wrote:
> In this case size matters :-)
Johnathan (may I call you Johnathan?), can you cite two cases in which
size does not matter? Thanks.
> Here's an analogy that you might be able to visualize:
> on the computer screen there's a matrix of dots (mine right now is 1024x768
> dots or picture elements, pixels for short) that are different colors but
> they are all the same size dots within close tolerance. If, with the same
> image information supplied to these dots the dot sizes had a wider range of
> sizes it would introduce more distortion into the picture.
I don't know what you just said, but you had me at hello!!
> For coffee there's a 'sweet spot' for each method of preparation where
> coffee, roast of the coffee, freshness, time, temperature, grind (includes
> particle size and uniformity), and water quality all come together for the
> best cup.
I think I need a cigarette after reading that paragraph.
> I prefer to keep my bean in a cannister where they just echo around the
> walls talking to themselves and being homogeneous.
Same here! Will you be my new best friend?
> I think they call the coffee produced from
> beans left in your pocket while going through the wash 'pokey thruwaash'.
> These are not as sought after as Kopi Luwak coffee.
Is this 'word salad?'
Thanks be unto you!
-Katy
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 23:34:43
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1150005361.052396.26150@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Johnny wrote:
>
> > In this case size matters :-)
>
>
> Johnathan (may I call you Johnathan?),
it's a public unmoderated newsgroup, you can call me whatever you like.
However, I may not answer to some things some people call me sometimes.
> can you cite two cases in which
> size does not matter? Thanks.
yes I can but I may not. You are most welcome.
>
>
>
> > Here's an analogy that you might be able to visualize:
> > on the computer screen there's a matrix of dots (mine right now is
1024x768
> > dots or picture elements, pixels for short) that are different colors
but
> > they are all the same size dots within close tolerance. If, with the
same
> > image information supplied to these dots the dot sizes had a wider range
of
> > sizes it would introduce more distortion into the picture.
>
>
> I don't know what you just said, but you had me at hello!!
I guess then now I've had you. How does it feel to be had? :-)
>
> > For coffee there's a 'sweet spot' for each method of preparation where
> > coffee, roast of the coffee, freshness, time, temperature, grind
(includes
> > particle size and uniformity), and water quality all come together for
the
> > best cup.
>
>
> I think I need a cigarette after reading that paragraph.
>
Sometimes they go together really well but you should make sure you have the
very best cigarettes. See alt.cigarettes for guidance on this topic. :-)
>
> > I prefer to keep my bean in a cannister where they just echo around the
> > walls talking to themselves and being homogeneous.
>
>
> Same here! Will you be my new best friend?
Not at this time but thanks for asking.
>
> > I think they call the coffee produced from
> > beans left in your pocket while going through the wash 'pokey
thruwaash'.
> > These are not as sought after as Kopi Luwak coffee.
>
>
> Is this 'word salad?'
Here some context: http://www.ravensbrew.com/NewFiles/kopiluwak.html
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 22:51:49
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Jim Exline wrote:
> you certainly stated your original question in such a way
> as to make one wonder if you were truly sincere, or if you were indeed
> "bullshitting"!
James (May I call you James?), this sounds like a false dichotomy to
me. To your reckoning, one may either be sincere OR be bullshitting.
Sincere OR bullshitting. You presume a person will be one or the
other. You are forgetting another option! A little bit of
bullshitting.
> A hammer compared to a grinder? Come on, now! Did you really not know
> the difference between what the the two could do? I'll admit, my wife
> is not real knowledgeable in all things coffee, but she certainly knows
> the difference and advantage of using a grinder vs. using a hammer.
Women, eh, James!
> OK- I'll give you this one- it is indeed a genuine question, one to
> which many do not know the difference. As previously stated- using a
> blade grinder will give you very inconsistent results- grind size that
> will greatly vary in size, along with static electricity and possibly
> even burnt coffee.
Static electricity!! Now I have to worry about that? When I go to
Starbucks (boo!!), do I have to ask for "no static electricity" in my
caramel machiatto now?
> Your sincerity is taking a hit here! Either you really haven't
> appreciated the difference, or you really are simply "baiting" those
> here
Again, a false dichotomy. I can only do one or the other, according to
you: not appreciate the difference OR simply baiting. I submit to you
a third option: A little bit of bullshit.
> Oh boy- either you're psychotic- or you are truly ignorant to the
> process
I still don't know which one I am myself!
> If, on the other hand,
> you are merely bullshitting this NG, please don't waste the time of the
> vast knowledge that is represented here.
James, I would never "merely bullshit." I assure you, good sir, that
there is nothing 'mere' about the quality of my bullshit! When I
bullshit, I go all out. I use a burr grinder.
-Katy
|
| |
Date: 10 Jun 2006 22:29:42
From: Jim Exline
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
katy wrote:
Jim Exline wrote
> > To all of you who rode your high horse, and bitched about those of us-
> > yeah- I'm probably at the top of your list, second only to Dave B, who
> > are so "malicious" to the "newbies"- I told you so!
> Yeah, you guys!
> > The OP here was obviously baiting the regulars here, and some of you bit- "hook, line, and sinker"!
> No, I wasn't! I had a real question about grinding coffee! A question
> I've been thinking about for a long time and really wanted an answer
> to! Why can't you accept that? I have a real coffee question. And
> the nice people here answered it for me! So thank you, nice people!!
> Thanks to you all!!
> --Katy
Well- if that's truly the case- then as I stated before- I apologize to
you. However- you certainly stated your original question in such a way
as to make one wonder if you were truly sincere, or if you were indeed
"bullshitting"!
A hammer compared to a grinder? Come on, now! Did you really not know
the difference between what the the two could do? I'll admit, my wife
is not real knowledgeable in all things coffee, but she certainly knows
the difference and advantage of using a grinder vs. using a hammer.
Come on- one is for hammering nails, the other is for grinding coffee!
>Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
OK- I'll give you this one- it is indeed a genuine question, one to
which many do not know the difference. As previously stated- using a
blade grinder will give you very inconsistent results- grind size that
will greatly vary in size, along with static electricity and possibly
even burnt coffee.
>Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
Your sincerity is taking a hit here! Either you really haven't
appreciated the difference, or you really are simply "baiting" those
here who really can and do appreciate the difference a high quality
grinder can make!
>How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
Oh boy- either you're psychotic- or you are truly ignorant to the
process of grinding coffee- not stupid, just inexperienced in the
process.
If the above is true, and you are genuinely looking for answers, I
applaud your effort to obtain knowledge- after all, I started out
thinking that a $68 Hamilton Beach espresso machine was a really good
one! In that case, your inquires are welcome here, and we are more than
happy to help you in your quest for knowledge! If, on the other hand,
you are merely bullshitting this NG, please don't waste the time of the
vast knowledge that is represented here.
Jim E
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 12:53:40
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> > Katy's hammer?
> a great name for a coffee joint.
Merciful Neptune, you're right! Love it!
-Katy
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 12:49:04
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Dan Bollinger wrote:
> Katherin, (may I call you Katherine?) Obviously, you use Elmer's White Glue as
> your creamer. ;)
You may call me Katzman Scruthers.
White glue...check!!
--Katy
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 15:20:37
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>Dan Bollinger wrote:
>
>> Katherin, (may I call you Katherine?) Obviously, you use Elmer's White Glue as
>> your creamer. ;)
>
>
>You may call me Katzman Scruthers.
>
Tee hee... Scatman Caruthers played at my Uncle's Bar Mitzvah.. Must
have been around 1935-45 or so I think. REALLY!
Randy "nuh huh!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 12:46:51
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Wavy G wrote:
> I've got a set of "Monday" through "Sunday"
> coffee grinders for every day of the week.
Wavence (may I call you Wavence?), can you recommend a retail
establishment where I might purchase such a set of grinders? Thanks!!
--Katy
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 12:43:57
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Johnny wrote:
> How does it feel to be had? :-)
Uuummm....good?
-Katy
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 11:57:59
From: daveb
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Exline:
please quote me where I've been "vicious to a newbie"
thanks!
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
Jim Exline wrote:
> katy wrote:
> > Jim Exline wrote:
>
> > Jim, thank you for your reply! You're right; I haven't ain't ever been
> > there. I hear it's very nice this time of year and I hope to go there
> > someday when I save up enough money.
>
> > > Never mind- someone of your obvious intellect, or in this case- lack of
> > > intellect, wouldn't care- or in your case, wouldn't have the intellect
> > > to know the difference!
>
>
> > I think it goes, "...and the wisdom to know the difference." You went
> > to all the meetings; you should know this by now.
> >
> > And I'll have you know, I have a very *high* below-average
> > intelligence! (Okay, I can't take credit for that joke; I got it from
> > an old Robert Benchley book and have always liked it.)
> >
> >
> > > Thanks- just knowing that some of the issues that keep you up at night
> > > have been answered will assure that I've had a nice day!
> >
> >
> > Terrific! You are swell for saying so!
> >
> >
> > > Also- you may want to seek professional help, as it appears very
> > > obviously that you need it! If posting your bullshit to whatever
> > > newsgroup meets your fancy is your idea of an entertainig evening,
> > > please take your meds, and seek professional help!
> >
> >
> > Just because I' use coffee filters to cover my windows and store my
> > coffee beans up my nose does not mean I need professional help, but
> > nonetheless that's what they keep telling me. The beans, that is.
> > They tell me lots of things. But hey, thanks for your concern! I do
> > need a little neosporin on this cut I have; is that what you mean by
> > medication?
> >
> >
> > --Katy
> > http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
>
> To all of you who rode your high horse, and bitched about those of us-
> yeah- I'm probably at the top of your list, second only to Dave B, who
> are so "malicious" to the "newbies"- I told you so! The OP here was
> obviously baiting the regulars here, and some of you bit- "hook, line,
> and sinker"! I'll admit- I've been wrong in the past in regards to
> newbies, and I have no problem apologizing when I've been wrong and
> misunderstood a newbie's intent. However- it is very satisfying to get
> one right every once in a while! As far as the "treatment" of newbies,
> of course they should be granted the right to be heard and understood!
> As far as "doofusses" who are bored and are merely passing time by
> bullshitting everyone here, those same "rights" should never be
> extended to them- instead- the old "you wanna play, you gotta pay"
> rights should be extended to these jokers! I call 'em like I see 'em-
> right or wrong. This time- I saw 'em for what they really were!
>
> Jim E
|
| |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 11:56:38
From: daveb
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Exline:
<< . . .Please don't waste the time of the vast knowledge that is
represented here. . . >>
Hooo boy! now THAT is self-important!!
Jimmy, [can I call you Jimmy?] why do you feel the need to 'bust'
someone who has a question that is out of the ordinary? and may or may
NOT be humourous?? A little humour is a good thing. YOU don't need to
respond....
Dave
Jim Exline wrote:
> katy wrote:
> Jim Exline wrote
> > > To all of you who rode your high horse, and bitched about those of us-
> > > yeah- I'm probably at the top of your list, second only to Dave B, who
> > > are so "malicious" to the "newbies"- I told you so!
>
> > Yeah, you guys!
>
> > > The OP here was obviously baiting the regulars here, and some of you bit- "hook, line, and sinker"!
>
> > No, I wasn't! I had a real question about grinding coffee! A question
> > I've been thinking about for a long time and really wanted an answer
> > to! Why can't you accept that? I have a real coffee question. And
> > the nice people here answered it for me! So thank you, nice people!!
>
> > Thanks to you all!!
>
> > --Katy
>
> Well- if that's truly the case- then as I stated before- I apologize to
> you. However- you certainly stated your original question in such a way
> as to make one wonder if you were truly sincere, or if you were indeed
> "bullshitting"!
>
> A hammer compared to a grinder? Come on, now! Did you really not know
> the difference between what the the two could do? I'll admit, my wife
> is not real knowledgeable in all things coffee, but she certainly knows
> the difference and advantage of using a grinder vs. using a hammer.
> Come on- one is for hammering nails, the other is for grinding coffee!
>
> >Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
> OK- I'll give you this one- it is indeed a genuine question, one to
> which many do not know the difference. As previously stated- using a
> blade grinder will give you very inconsistent results- grind size that
> will greatly vary in size, along with static electricity and possibly
> even burnt coffee.
>
> >Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>
> Your sincerity is taking a hit here! Either you really haven't
> appreciated the difference, or you really are simply "baiting" those
> here who really can and do appreciate the difference a high quality
> grinder can make!
>
> >How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
> Oh boy- either you're psychotic- or you are truly ignorant to the
> process of grinding coffee- not stupid, just inexperienced in the
> process.
>
> If the above is true, and you are genuinely looking for answers, I
> applaud your effort to obtain knowledge- after all, I started out
> thinking that a $68 Hamilton Beach espresso machine was a really good
> one! In that case, your inquires are welcome here, and we are more than
> happy to help you in your quest for knowledge! If, on the other hand,
> you are merely bullshitting this NG, please don't waste the time of the
> vast knowledge that is represented here.
>
> Jim E
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 20:07:24
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer... (no, smash daveb instead)
|
No doubt about it, daveb knows humor (or should that be daveb knows no
humor - hmmmm). If there's any doubt just check out the alt.coffee archives.
It'll show that daveb is a hoot; almost every one of his comments is
overflowing with humor.
In fact whenever I see a daveb post I start laughing even before I open it,
knowing that he'll lighten my burden with a few hearty guffaws. You go
daveb, you rule the humor arena. BTW bub, how many PID's do you have to your
credit as of today?
Robert (loves a good laugh at daveb's expense) Harmon
"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1150052198.302301.80040@m38g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Exline:
>
> << . . .Please don't waste the time of the vast knowledge that is
> represented here. . . >>
>
> Hooo boy! now THAT is self-important!!
>
> Jimmy, [can I call you Jimmy?] why do you feel the need to 'bust'
> someone who has a question that is out of the ordinary? and may or may
> NOT be humourous?? A little humour is a good thing. YOU don't need to
> respond....
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Exline wrote:
>> katy wrote:
>> Jim Exline wrote
>> > > To all of you who rode your high horse, and bitched about those of
>> > > us-
>> > > yeah- I'm probably at the top of your list, second only to Dave B,
>> > > who
>> > > are so "malicious" to the "newbies"- I told you so!
>>
>> > Yeah, you guys!
>>
>> > > The OP here was obviously baiting the regulars here, and some of
>> > > you bit- "hook, line, and sinker"!
>>
>> > No, I wasn't! I had a real question about grinding coffee! A question
>> > I've been thinking about for a long time and really wanted an answer
>> > to! Why can't you accept that? I have a real coffee question. And
>> > the nice people here answered it for me! So thank you, nice people!!
>>
>> > Thanks to you all!!
>>
>> > --Katy
>>
>> Well- if that's truly the case- then as I stated before- I apologize to
>> you. However- you certainly stated your original question in such a way
>> as to make one wonder if you were truly sincere, or if you were indeed
>> "bullshitting"!
>>
>> A hammer compared to a grinder? Come on, now! Did you really not know
>> the difference between what the the two could do? I'll admit, my wife
>> is not real knowledgeable in all things coffee, but she certainly knows
>> the difference and advantage of using a grinder vs. using a hammer.
>> Come on- one is for hammering nails, the other is for grinding coffee!
>>
>> >Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>>
>> OK- I'll give you this one- it is indeed a genuine question, one to
>> which many do not know the difference. As previously stated- using a
>> blade grinder will give you very inconsistent results- grind size that
>> will greatly vary in size, along with static electricity and possibly
>> even burnt coffee.
>>
>> >Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>>
>> Your sincerity is taking a hit here! Either you really haven't
>> appreciated the difference, or you really are simply "baiting" those
>> here who really can and do appreciate the difference a high quality
>> grinder can make!
>>
>> >How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>>
>> Oh boy- either you're psychotic- or you are truly ignorant to the
>> process of grinding coffee- not stupid, just inexperienced in the
>> process.
>>
>> If the above is true, and you are genuinely looking for answers, I
>> applaud your effort to obtain knowledge- after all, I started out
>> thinking that a $68 Hamilton Beach espresso machine was a really good
>> one! In that case, your inquires are welcome here, and we are more than
>> happy to help you in your quest for knowledge! If, on the other hand,
>> you are merely bullshitting this NG, please don't waste the time of the
>> vast knowledge that is represented here.
>>
>> Jim E
>
|
| | |
Date: 11 Jun 2006 20:04:19
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
No doubt about it, daveb knows humor (or should that be daveb no's no
humor - hmmmm). If there's any doubt just check out the alt.coffee archives.
It'll show that daveb is a hoot; almost every one of his comments is
overflowing with humor.
In fact whenever I see a daveb post I start laughing even before I open it,
knowing that he'll lighten my burden with a few hearty guffaws. You go
daveb, you rule the humor arena. BTW bub, how many PID's do you have to your
credit as of today?
Robert (loves a good laugh at daveb's expense) Harmon
"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1150052198.302301.80040@m38g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Exline:
>
> << . . .Please don't waste the time of the vast knowledge that is
> represented here. . . >>
>
> Hooo boy! now THAT is self-important!!
>
> Jimmy, [can I call you Jimmy?] why do you feel the need to 'bust'
> someone who has a question that is out of the ordinary? and may or may
> NOT be humourous?? A little humour is a good thing. YOU don't need to
> respond....
>
> Dave
>
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2006 07:05:14
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
katy <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote:
> ..how is that different from a grinder?
>
> Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
> . . .
I'd recommend using a hatchet or ax:
Katy Borden took an axe
And gave her coffee forty whacks.
When she saw what she had done
She gave her beans a forty-one.
(the Lizzie Borden poem)
There is a confinement issue as the bean fragments would follow
Gallagher projectile paths. But assuming you have a suitable containment
device, the effects should be satisfactory.
Bob Wilson
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2006 21:26:18
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Wavy G wrote:
> "Katy's Hammer" sucks, man!
You're thinking of that other band, "Katy's Vacuum."
-Katy
http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2006 21:24:11
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Bob Wilson wrote:
> as the bean fragments would follow
> Gallagher projectile paths.
Gallagher projectile paths...heh heh... He sucks.
-Katy
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2006 21:22:45
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Randy G. wrote:
> Scatman Caruthers played at my Uncle's Bar Mitzvah..
Lucky!! I only know him from Sesame Street.
-Katy
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2006 21:21:22
From: katy
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
Hugh Jass wrote:
> Katy's Hammer could attract the coffee nutcakes that would want hammer
> processed ground coffee.
> If the hammer was made out of platinum and manufactured in Italy, all the
> better.
Mr. Jass, can you direct me to a website you think would be a good
place to apply for a business license? I can't wait to start my new
business! And thanks for the idea about serving nut cakes with my
hand-hammered coffee! You are full of great ideas!
You know what? If you come in to my new coffee shop on any first
Thursday of the month between 10am and 11am, I'll give you 10% off your
first cup!
--Katy
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2006 05:39:22
From: Hugh Jass
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
"katy" <thecitychicken@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1150172482.730461.201320@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hugh Jass wrote:
>
>> Katy's Hammer could attract the coffee nutcakes that would want hammer
>> processed ground coffee.
>> If the hammer was made out of platinum and manufactured in Italy, all the
>> better.
>
>
> Mr. Jass,
Please call me Hugh
> can you direct me to a website you think would be a good
> place to apply for a business license? I can't wait to start my new
> business! And thanks for the idea about serving nut cakes with my
> hand-hammered coffee! You are full of great ideas!
Have you considered franchising? This is going to be a 'smashing' success.
> You know what? If you come in to my new coffee shop on any first
> Thursday of the month between 10am and 11am, I'll give you 10% off your
> first cup!
I'll be there!
>
> --Katy
>
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2006 16:21:50
From: bizbee
Subject: Re: If I smash coffee beans with a hammer...
|
On 9 Jun 2006 20:50:50 -0700 in
<1149911450.121390.257220@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >, "katy"
<thecitychicken@yahoo.com > graced the world with this thought:
>...how is that different from a grinder?
>
>Why do people say to use a burr grinder and not a blade grinder?
>
>Isn't smashed up beans just smashed up beans?
>
>How do the beans know how they got broken into tiny little pieces?
>
>Thank you and have a nice day.
>
>--Katy
>http://www.myspace.com/thecitychicken
I guess if consistency from batch to bach is meaningless to you, then
it makes no difference whatsoever, really. On the other hand, if you
really liked that last cup of coffee you just made, don't you want to
duplicate it?
|
|
