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Main
Date: 23 Jun 2006 18:06:32
From: Kyle
Subject: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
*smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
instant?
Thanks for any help!
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 18:24:13
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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"Kyle" <kylejj64@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
>inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
>comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
>So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
>*smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
>old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
>instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
>anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
>instant?
>
By definition, it can't be- at least when used to brew a cup of coffee
for drinking.
If the universal truth that fresh coffee is best is indeed truth and
universal, then the quality of the beverage is in inverse proportion
to the amount of processing a coffee goes through. There aren't many
coffee processes that are more.. err.... dynamic than making instant.
Use it on ice cream or baking if you have to, but not to drink.
Randy "how long is an instant?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 20:10:29
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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Randy G. wrote:
> "Kyle" <kylejj64@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
>> inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
>> comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
>> So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
>> *smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
>> old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
>> instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
>> anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
>> instant?
>>
>
> By definition, it can't be- at least when used to brew a cup of coffee
> for drinking.
>
> If the universal truth that fresh coffee is best is indeed truth and
> universal, then the quality of the beverage is in inverse proportion
> to the amount of processing a coffee goes through. There aren't many
> coffee processes that are more.. err.... dynamic than making instant.
>
> Use it on ice cream or baking if you have to, but not to drink.
"Universal Truth"??? I think you've been drinking too much decaf!
I've had plenty of fresh coffee that was horrible - much less
drinkable than good instant coffee. I would also say say that most of
the coffee I've had at Starbucks is worse than a well made cup of
Taster's Choice.
The problem here is that you (and many coffee snobs, including my
wife!) are judging Instant by the same measure as "real" coffee. This
makes as much sense as claiming all beer is bad because it isn't wine.
Instant coffee can be a tasty hot brown beverage, vaguely related to
real coffee. Of things humans drink on occasion, it not on the top of
my list, but its far from the bottom.
BTW, I'm not someone who drank a lot of instant and then converted to
real; in fact I believe I only had 3 or 4 cups of perc'd coffee before
before being introduced to French Press La Minita at George Howell's
Coffee Connection around 1975. I acquired a tolerance of, not quite a
"taste for," instant when I realized that I had an absolute dependency
on at least on shot of caffeine in the morning, and instant suited me
better than tea. And, as for the "universal truth" of freshness, I
would much rather have instant than coffee which has had no resting time.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 20:24:28
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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On 2006-06-24, Kyle <kylejj64@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms?
At the risk of inviting heaps of scorn, I think there is a good
instant coffee. I've always kept a small jar of Taster's Choice on
hand. When I had to give up regular coffee for two years, I drank TC
decaf almost eclusively. I still will drink it if I want coffee close
to bedtime. Their Gourmet Roast is pretty darn good for an instant. I
haven't tried the newer 100% Columbian. It may be even better.
http://www.tasterschoice.com/OurCoffee/coffee_our.aspx
And yes, I roast, grind, brew, espress, and all that other stuff, so
I'm not totally unfamiliar with good coffee.
nb
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 18:13:45
From:
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
Kyle wrote:
> Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
> inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
> comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
> So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
> *smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
> old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
> instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
> anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
> instant?
>
> Thanks for any help!
Maybe the term applies when comparing one instant coffee to another.
Lets start with the assumption that all instant coffee is horrible.
However, amongst all the "horribles", Tasters Choice actually tastes
the best. Hence, Tasters Choice is a "Good" Instant Coffee.
Marty
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 11:30:15
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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There are "better" and "worse" instant coffees.
First you have to start with the beans. Generic instant coffee is made with
very cheap robusta beans that are bad. You can't make a silk purse from a
sow's ear. There are a few that start with better Arabica beans but no
instant maker would "waste" really high quality coffee on making instant. So
there's the first strike. But instant made with "better" beans will be
better.
The instant coffee brewing process is brutal because it is designed to
extract the maximum amount of solids from the beans, far more than is good
for flavor. The grinds are infused several times in a cascading system where
the hot water is run thru fresh grounds then thru once used grounds and then
twice used grounds. Then the oldest grounds are discarded and the process is
repeated. I know of no instant where this process is not used. Strike 2.
And no fix available.
Lastly, the brewed coffee has to be turned into a powder. There are
aromatic compounds in coffee that will evaporate if you dry brewed coffee to
dust, no matter what. Strike three. There are two methods - spray drying and
freeze drying. Freeze drying is better, so look for freeze dried instant.
There are also commercial coffee concentrates where rather than drying to a
powder the coffee is just concentrated into a liquid extract. These are very
good but are subject to spoilage and need to be kept refrigerated, so they
are not available to consumers.
A solution for home use is to make your own extract using the "cold brew"
process. You can start with good quailty coffee and do not over extract it.
To make a cup of coffee you add hot water to a couple of ounces of this
homemade concentrate. This is as close to good as you will find in the
world of "instant" brews. Google "toddy coffee" for more info.
"Kyle" <kylejj64@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1151111192.466649.219500@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
> inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
> comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
> So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
> *smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
> old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
> instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
> anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
> instant?
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 15:57:24
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:30:15 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>The instant coffee brewing process is brutal because it is designed to
>extract the maximum amount of solids from the beans, far more than is good
>for flavor. The grinds are infused several times in a cascading system where
>the hot water is run thru fresh grounds then thru once used grounds and then
>twice used grounds. Then the oldest grounds are discarded and the process is
>repeated. I know of no instant where this process is not used. Strike 2.
>And no fix available.
The grounds are hydrolyzed to get soluble "yields" of 50% to 60%
(instead of the 20% of regular coffee). Apparently, the taste (not the
aroma) of pre-WWII instant was quite good, since it was made from
regular 20% dissolved coffee.
Capturing the coffee aromatics and fixing them into a non-volatile oil
that can be added to the instant remains the holy grail of coffee
science as done by the big four. The oil currently added to instant
and R&G coffees is unstable and dissipates soon after the package is
opened. It does serve to give the customer a hit of fresh coffee aroma
when they open the jar or can.
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 07:44:55
From: wascher@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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When visiting friends in Australia, I was offered instant coffee. It
was trying to be polite, they were friends, and tea drinkers. But, the
stuff was pretty good. It was a Nestle premium instant coffee.
It was actually much better than some of the brewed coffee I've been
offered.
Kyle wrote:
> Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
> inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
> comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
> So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
> *smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
> old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
> instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
> anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
> instant?
>
> Thanks for any help!
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 12:03:39
From: A.G.McDowell
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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In article <kp4p92t3je620gb15r3usj4mm5kjb2jmro@4ax.com >, Randy G.
<frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > writes
>"Kyle" <kylejj64@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Is the phrase "good instant coffee" a contradiction in terms? I'm
>>inclined to think so at this point. I'm sort of a coffee snob when it
>>comes to beans, but I realize standards have to be lower for instant.
>>So, when it comes to something like Folgers Instant, I think it
>>*smells* pretty good for instant. But it tastes like just about any
>>old instant crap. So I don't expect greatness; I don't expect any
>>instant to taste like coffee made from good, fresh beans. But is there
>>anything generally recognized as good by coffee lovers in the world of
>>instant?
>>
>
>By definition, it can't be- at least when used to brew a cup of coffee
>for drinking.
>
>If the universal truth that fresh coffee is best is indeed truth and
>universal, then the quality of the beverage is in inverse proportion
>to the amount of processing a coffee goes through. There aren't many
>coffee processes that are more.. err.... dynamic than making instant.
>
>Use it on ice cream or baking if you have to, but not to drink.
>
> Randy "how long is an instant?" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
I think that most instant coffee is limited by the beans it is produced
from, rather than the process and storage that happens after that. I
have tried most of the decaf instant available in my local (UK)
supermarkets. I find Nescafe Alta Rica Decaf (currently labelled New)
noticeably closer to proper coffee than everything else I have tried -
and I can't tell much difference between these others. The label of Alta
Rica claims that it is produced from 100% arabica beans. The labels of
the others sometimes mention arabica, but in such a way that it does not
commit them to any particular proportion.
PS - I would welcome suggestions for alternatives available in the UK.
One source I haven't tried is the variety of Free Trade coffees
available e.g. in Oxfam shops, although a quick look suggests that they
don't include a 100% arabica in their selection.
--
A.G.McDowell
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 10:01:29
From: ---MIKE---
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
I have found Taster's Choice to be quite good when the jar is first
opened. After that it deteriorates rapidly.
---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580')
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 21:33:08
From: nimbus
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
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Yes, there is Good instant coffee. When you have nothing else, and you
really really want some coffee, and are desperate, and discover that
backup reserve of instant, you will find it to be AWESOME.
That said, I'm a coffee geek. I usually have a few (well 2-3) freshly
roasted (two, three, four day old) coffee varieties (or even blends) on
hand. I now keep one fresh decaf on hand also. My home coffees
generally come out of my RK drum. Yes, I drink too much coffee.
I will buy the wretched rest area machine coffees while on road trips,
just because they're coffee...and c'mon, if you are lucky enough to
have a "strong" button AND pull the cup out early, you can get half a
cup of interesting stuff. Once or twice, I'd even say good. My local
Kroger pharmacy has started installing machines that "fresh grind and
roast -watch while it brews" basically rest stop coffee. But I drink it
sometimes.
For instant, Walmart (easy, easy, kids...we poverty level entrepreneurs
who support our kids and still need $ to travel the world do need to
scrape pennies) ...Walmart instant is 100% Arabica, and tasted just
fine. (great value brand??) Great crema..haha...right out of the
microwave. But really, it is coffee, ain't that bad, and for us addicts
it works.
I keep my half gallon Thermos nearby in most instances. Filled with
fresh personal roast.
My new (used -thank you Chris!!!) Technivorm is in transit as we speak.
I loved my Presto Scandinavian, but when Technivorm calls how can one
resist (I felt like Odysseus sailing past the Sirens)...I couldn't
resist.
It's all relative. I even hit *$$ every few months to calibrate my
taste buds (to what I usually try to avoid while roasting)...
Cheers
-nimbus
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 18:34:52
From:
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
A TALE OF INSTANT COFFEE
According to my father the taste and appearance of instant (known in
the trade as soluble) coffee was dreadful from inception during WWI to
my youth after WWII. In the early sixties Dad was asked, by Elliot
Meyers an executive at Struthers Wells, to cup a new instant coffee
then in development for General Foods (a giant of the day). Dad
brought me along I think I was seventeen, and already in the business.
I sat by and watched as the master cupped.
Soluble products of the day were agglamorated (glumped to make it look
as fresh ground) aromatized to make it smell like coffee (instant
coffee had no smell) and coloring had been added to make it appear as
roasted as without these things instant resembled unbleached Hecksher's
brand flour with no smell. The industry had negotiated (lobbied) and
the government agreed to ingredients labeling that read "100% Instant
Coffee." This phrase included all these other ingredients that
needen'd then be displayed on the jar label.
The product Dad tasted was an early experimental version of the
original freeze dried coffee, later to be dubbed Maxim. For this test
a sample a freeze dried sample had been produced from 100% Colombian
beans. There was a control of 100% Colombian fresh ground/roast coffee
from the same batch on the table, and various other unnamed soluble
products. Pop was surprised at how good the product was by instant
coffee standards of the day, and on the drive home he talked about the
marvels of science and how someday there might be no more small coffee
companies as ours because If you really refined and produces such a
product and marketed it well as GF had the means to do there would be
no need for fellows who made the old fashioned whole bean products for
folks who were willing to slave over a Silex at the stove either at
home or in the commercial kitchen. He thought of it as a marvel of
science, and he thought that this stuff had the potential to be the end
of the world.
My coffee life went on and I did't think of the 'marvel of science'
much being more content to emerse myself in the Mochas and Javas of my
life. Then one day I came home to here the laughter of my Dad. GF had
launched Maxim and Dad had stopped at Max's Grocery store on Queens
Boulevard and brought home a jar. He declared that it was aweful. To
control costs they had made the product with the cheap robusta coffee
from which they made regular spray dried product defeating the whole
purpose of developing the new process of freeze dried instant. The old
man could not have been more pleased, announcing to all and sundry (my
sister Laura, mother and I) that it appeared as if this is what the
industry was about we needed never fear for our livlihood.
Things change. It is over 40-years since that day in my parent's
dining room, and GF is gone, the Maxim brand appears to be gone too.
There is, however, a thriving specialty coffee business in Auckland New
Zealand called Maxim. The moral of the story is if you live long
enough life has its small rewards.
-Donald Schoenholt
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 05:38:03
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
On 24 Jun 2006 18:34:52 -0700, i840coffee@optonline.net wrote:
>A TALE OF INSTANT COFFEE
Thanks for the history, Donald. You do, however, raise the spectre of
"specialty soluble" being a reality some day.
Marshall
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 04:30:13
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:38:03 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>On 24 Jun 2006 18:34:52 -0700, i840coffee@optonline.net wrote:
>
>>A TALE OF INSTANT COFFEE
>
>Thanks for the history, Donald. You do, however, raise the spectre of
>"specialty soluble" being a reality some day.
"artisan instant"
i wonder if i can build a miniature tower in my warehouse.
--barry "i should trademark that"
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 11:48:44
From: Kyle
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
Jack Denver wrote:
> There are "better" and "worse" instant coffees.
>
> First you have to start with the beans. Generic instant coffee is made with
> very cheap robusta beans that are bad. You can't make a silk purse from a
> sow's ear. There are a few that start with better Arabica beans but no
> instant maker would "waste" really high quality coffee on making instant. So
> there's the first strike. But instant made with "better" beans will be
> better.
>
>
> The instant coffee brewing process is brutal because it is designed to
> extract the maximum amount of solids from the beans, far more than is good
> for flavor. The grinds are infused several times in a cascading system where
> the hot water is run thru fresh grounds then thru once used grounds and then
> twice used grounds. Then the oldest grounds are discarded and the process is
> repeated. I know of no instant where this process is not used. Strike 2.
> And no fix available.
>
> Lastly, the brewed coffee has to be turned into a powder. There are
> aromatic compounds in coffee that will evaporate if you dry brewed coffee to
> dust, no matter what. Strike three. There are two methods - spray drying and
> freeze drying. Freeze drying is better, so look for freeze dried instant.
> There are also commercial coffee concentrates where rather than drying to a
> powder the coffee is just concentrated into a liquid extract. These are very
> good but are subject to spoilage and need to be kept refrigerated, so they
> are not available to consumers.
>
> A solution for home use is to make your own extract using the "cold brew"
> process. You can start with good quailty coffee and do not over extract it.
> To make a cup of coffee you add hot water to a couple of ounces of this
> homemade concentrate. This is as close to good as you will find in the
> world of "instant" brews. Google "toddy coffee" for more info.
Thank you for the remarkably informative reply. I was looking for
something that starts in a dry form, but I will try making toddy coffee.
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 23:41:37
From: Juan Garcia
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
The best instant coffee is Nescafe Alta Rica.
For starters, it has the right acidity, a traight seldom found in an instant
coffee. You'll notice a slight tingling sensation on the sides of your
tongue while drinking AR.
And Alta Rica has just the right bitterness blended in. I can only describe
it like the clean taste you get from eating a bitter yet sweet citrus fruit.
I don't know how they did it but Nescafe got the body right too. Not too
watery yet not too full, the viscosity is just right.
Finally, most instants lack intensity but not Alta Rica. The flavors are
blended in perfect harmony to yield a sharp and pleasing cup of instant
coffee.
I hope you enjoy Alta Rica as much as I do.
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 11:43:29
From: Kyle
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
Thanks, everyone. This is a cool group. I will try Taster's Choice.
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 14:23:45
From: Mathew Hargreaves
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
Thanks for the personal history recollection. Its always facinating
to have a small bit of coffee history written down for others to know.
My part is vacpots. I asm currently restoring the instructions to
the 1930's Rowenta E-5038 "Moka-Fix". It has two glass chambers, one
inside the other. It seems to function like a vacuum coffee maker and a
Moka pot, plus it dispenses like a coffe urn.
CHEERS...Matt
i840coffee@optonline.net wrote:
>
> A TALE OF INSTANT COFFEE
>
> According to my father the taste and appearance of instant (known in
> the trade as soluble) coffee was dreadful from inception during WWI to
> my youth after WWII. In the early sixties Dad was asked, by Elliot
> Meyers an executive at Struthers Wells, to cup a new instant coffee
> then in development for General Foods (a giant of the day). Dad
> brought me along I think I was seventeen, and already in the business.
> I sat by and watched as the master cupped.
>
> Soluble products of the day were agglamorated (glumped to make it look
> as fresh ground) aromatized to make it smell like coffee (instant
> coffee had no smell) and coloring had been added to make it appear as
> roasted as without these things instant resembled unbleached Hecksher's
> brand flour with no smell. The industry had negotiated (lobbied) and
> the government agreed to ingredients labeling that read "100% Instant
> Coffee." This phrase included all these other ingredients that
> needen'd then be displayed on the jar label.
>
> The product Dad tasted was an early experimental version of the
> original freeze dried coffee, later to be dubbed Maxim. For this test
> a sample a freeze dried sample had been produced from 100% Colombian
> beans. There was a control of 100% Colombian fresh ground/roast coffee
> from the same batch on the table, and various other unnamed soluble
> products. Pop was surprised at how good the product was by instant
> coffee standards of the day, and on the drive home he talked about the
> marvels of science and how someday there might be no more small coffee
> companies as ours because If you really refined and produces such a
> product and marketed it well as GF had the means to do there would be
> no need for fellows who made the old fashioned whole bean products for
> folks who were willing to slave over a Silex at the stove either at
> home or in the commercial kitchen. He thought of it as a marvel of
> science, and he thought that this stuff had the potential to be the end
> of the world.
>
> My coffee life went on and I did't think of the 'marvel of science'
> much being more content to emerse myself in the Mochas and Javas of my
> life. Then one day I came home to here the laughter of my Dad. GF had
> launched Maxim and Dad had stopped at Max's Grocery store on Queens
> Boulevard and brought home a jar. He declared that it was aweful. To
> control costs they had made the product with the cheap robusta coffee
> from which they made regular spray dried product defeating the whole
> purpose of developing the new process of freeze dried instant. The old
> man could not have been more pleased, announcing to all and sundry (my
> sister Laura, mother and I) that it appeared as if this is what the
> industry was about we needed never fear for our livlihood.
>
> Things change. It is over 40-years since that day in my parent's
> dining room, and GF is gone, the Maxim brand appears to be gone too.
> There is, however, a thriving specialty coffee business in Auckland New
> Zealand called Maxim. The moral of the story is if you live long
> enough life has its small rewards.
>
> -Donald Schoenholt
|
| |
Date: 26 Jun 2006 06:51:59
From:
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
Jack Denver wrote:
> A solution for home use is to make your own extract using the "cold brew"
> process. You can start with good quailty coffee and do not over extract it.
> To make a cup of coffee you add hot water to a couple of ounces of this
> homemade concentrate. This is as close to good as you will find in the
> world of "instant" brews. Google "toddy coffee" for more info.
Good comments throughout.
The Aeropress is also capable of making a fine concentrate, albeit in
small batches. This makes it great for iced coffee. Just add a shot of
dairy and some ice, and it begins strong and finishes a touch weak in
half an hour. Great for sipping.
I recommend alternative media (5 micron nominal polyester felt) for
filtering, and use the "inverted" technique to get all the oils
through.
I suspect -- though I've never shown it to my own satisfaction -- that
cold-brewed coffee will preserve longer in a fridge than hot-brewed.
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| |
Date: 28 Jun 2006 05:32:33
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Is there a Good Instant Coffee?
|
scott.marquardt@gmail.com wrote:
> The Aeropress is also capable of making a fine concentrate, albeit in
> small batches. This makes it great for iced coffee. Just add a shot of
> dairy and some ice, and it begins strong and finishes a touch weak in
> half an hour. Great for sipping.
Hear, hear. I bought an Aero just for that purpose. Just a little
patience with the plunger and you can make great concentrate.
Tell me about this other filter that you use, please. And about the
"upside down" thing.
Will
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|
