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Main
Date: 24 Jul 2006 10:59:23
From:
Subject: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
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If you go to my not particularly important blog
http://purekona.blogspot.com/ you will see what occurred this past
weekend.
Sorry to make you go elsewhere but perhaps that one further step will
keep out the creeps!
aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:23:27
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
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Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
<beans@smithfarms.com > wrote in message
news:q4cac2lrlcocbif0r4v9fp6316v4pc0j1t@4ax.com...
> If you go to my not particularly important blog
> http://purekona.blogspot.com/ you will see what occurred this past
> weekend.
>
> Sorry to make you go elsewhere but perhaps that one further step will
> keep out the creeps!
>
> aloha,
> Cea
>
> --smithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 21:09:57
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:23:27 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
Sounds like you endorse corporate rape and corruption.
jim
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 13:27:10
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:23:27 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
What do you mean Robert? I am a farmer and new HCA head is a blender
who managed to corrupt our state legislators into thinking that
raising the amount of real Kona in a Kona blend needed a *study*,etc.
(He'd have had to pay more for each of his crummy packages of Kona
Blend if each package needed a higher percentage to qulaify as a Kona
Blend.) A guy who thinks we farmers ought to follow the money just
like his questionable self. He's not the kind of person a farmer
likes.
Sour grapes, I don't know. This is quite complicated but the guy who
fixed the KCC election is now the contractor for this "mongoose". ugh
aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 23:46:07
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
OK, the elitist vs. the populist then. Is it better for many people to have
SOME Kona in their cup or should it be reserved for the right-thinking few
capable of really enjoying it? As my ol' professor was fond of saying, "For
every argument there is a counter argument. If you cannot recognize the
other persons point of view & argue it successfully then you are too one
dimensional in your thinking." It seems to me that finding common ground
would work to your advantage better than name calling & maybe even a little
histrionics.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
<beans@smithfarms.com > wrote in message
news:rglac213b3a4id6fi6jh7br4jolt8k0jns@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:23:27 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
>
> What do you mean Robert? I am a farmer and new HCA head is a blender
> who managed to corrupt our state legislators into thinking that
> raising the amount of real Kona in a Kona blend needed a *study*,etc.
> (He'd have had to pay more for each of his crummy packages of Kona
> Blend if each package needed a higher percentage to qulaify as a Kona
> Blend.) A guy who thinks we farmers ought to follow the money just
> like his questionable self. He's not the kind of person a farmer
> likes.
>
> Sour grapes, I don't know. This is quite complicated but the guy who
> fixed the KCC election is now the contractor for this "mongoose". ugh
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> --smithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 01:22:41
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 23:46:07 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>OK, the elitist vs. the populist then. Is it better for many people to have
>SOME Kona in their cup or should it be reserved for the right-thinking few
>capable of really enjoying it? As my ol' professor was fond of saying, "For
>every argument there is a counter argument. If you cannot recognize the
>other persons point of view & argue it successfully then you are too one
>dimensional in your thinking." It seems to me that finding common ground
>would work to your advantage better than name calling & maybe even a little
>histrionics.
The issue is "what does the Kona Coffee Council stand for?" The new
regime appears to favor exploiting the "Kona" name with little regard
for quality, slapping it on cans and bags of 90% non-Kona coffee until
the name loses its premium value. Killing the golden goose, if you
will. Cea's group of farmers favors preserving the Kona name by
preserving the integrity of Kona-branded coffee. I would think that
any coffee lover would side with Cea's group.
Marshall
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 03:14:53
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
OK, let's assume the "Kona" label has a marketable value. Who then controls
the name? Traditionally farmers of commodities like soy beans, corn, & yes
coffee, do not control the marketing of their products through registered
trademarks; the Vidalia onion is an excellent & rare example of an exception
to this rule.
When control of the raw commodity & marketing of the finished product occurs
there should be antitrust questions raised because they've achieved vertical
market control, the same thing that prompted the breakups of Standard Oil &
AT&T. This is especially true if attempts are made to prevent opening the
market to new enterprises by setting up artificial barriers to entry, such
as high cost of entry because of inflated costs of machinery patented or
licensed by a stakeholder in the status quo. Another might be setting an
arbitrarily high minimum content rule that enrich the original stakeholders
unfairly.
The best way to counter such intrusions into a vertically controlled market
is to advertise the commodity aggressively, with the aim of educating the
buying public. All too often the consumer's intelligence is disregarded when
fighting these kinds of incursions. If you want to force the new kid on the
block to play by your rules then make sure the buying public knows that
"Kona Blend" is not the same as Kona Coffee. Does anyone believe that
Costco's customers truly understand that the Jamaican Blue Mountain & Kona
blends on the shelves don't really taste like those coffees at 100%
strength? And, should it be Costco's job to educate the public?
I am a coffee lover, have been for over 50+ years. But I'm also a
businessman who's never asked anyone to do something for me if I could do it
myself. I didn't whine or cry foul when I lost a contract bid (even when I
knew it wasn't on the up & up). So I'm not terribly sympathetic to the Kona
farmers plight. Business is about change, good or bad isn't an issue, just
the inevitability of change & who controls the direction & pace of it.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:sasac219tirdbatc1j6s7oc6sf6i3oto6q@4ax.com...
>
> The issue is "what does the Kona Coffee Council stand for?" The new
> regime appears to favor exploiting the "Kona" name with little regard
> for quality, slapping it on cans and bags of 90% non-Kona coffee until
> the name loses its premium value. Killing the golden goose, if you
> will. Cea's group of farmers favors preserving the Kona name by
> preserving the integrity of Kona-branded coffee. I would think that
> any coffee lover would side with Cea's group.
>
> Marshall
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 21:11:22
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:14:53 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com >acted as a corporate rape and corruption
apologist when he wrote:
his line of bs.
jim
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 04:50:47
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Your ability to engage in witty repartee & cutting rhetoric is inspirational
to a simple country boy such as myself. Encore, encore!!
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"ensenadajim" <ensenadaXXXjim@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:3e6bc2d3chnf3ccoo9mde1v4ejkoop7mfh@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:14:53 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com>acted as a corporate rape and corruption
> apologist when he wrote:
>
> his line of bs.
>
>
> jim
>
>
>
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 01:06:35
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 04:50:47 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>Your ability to engage in witty repartee & cutting rhetoric is inspirational
>to a simple country boy such as myself. Encore, encore!!
I note that you are unwilling to accept the truth of what I said.
Absolutely telling.
jim
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:39:00
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>OK, let's assume the "Kona" label has a marketable value...
>
ASSUME!?
Randy "that's an ume lead by an ass" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 09:27:13
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On 2006-07-25, Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> trademarks; the Vidalia onion is an excellent & rare example of an exception
> to this rule.
Yeah, disregard all those who brought us Smithfield, Scotch,
Champagne, Roquefort, etc. Buncha sniveling elitists. We know you
are right, Robert, you being a Kona coffee farmer, and all.
What's next? Kopi Luwak blend? If civet doody can do that to a coffee
bean, think what it can do for your water!
nb
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 00:41:30
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:14:53 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>Business is about change, good or bad isn't an issue, just
>the inevitability of change & who controls the direction & pace of it.
I don't want to revisit this ad nauseum, but my guess is your business
was not located in Parma, Modena, Bordeaux, etc.
I don't have a clue what they do in Jamaica with regards to JBM, but
the Kona people have precedent and policy to back their revolt over
this "businessman".
This could be a watershed event for Kona, and I for one would be happy
to donate to a fund to litigate/legislate against any "business"
intent upon, well, this type of marketing malapropism.
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 11:43:23
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Robert Harmon wrote:
> OK, let's assume the "Kona" label has a marketable value. Who then
> controls the name? Traditionally farmers of commodities like soy beans,
> corn, & yes coffee, do not control the marketing of their products through
> registered trademarks; the Vidalia onion is an excellent & rare example of
> an exception to this rule.
>
> When control of the raw commodity & marketing of the finished product
> occurs there should be antitrust questions raised because they've achieved
> vertical market control, the same thing that prompted the breakups of
> Standard Oil & AT&T. This is especially true if attempts are made to
> prevent opening the market to new enterprises by setting up artificial
> barriers to entry, such as high cost of entry because of inflated costs of
> machinery patented or licensed by a stakeholder in the status quo. Another
> might be setting an arbitrarily high minimum content rule that enrich the
> original stakeholders unfairly.
>
> The best way to counter such intrusions into a vertically controlled
> market is to advertise the commodity aggressively, with the aim of
> educating the buying public. All too often the consumer's intelligence is
> disregarded when fighting these kinds of incursions. If you want to force
> the new kid on the block to play by your rules then make sure the buying
> public knows that "Kona Blend" is not the same as Kona Coffee. Does anyone
> believe that Costco's customers truly understand that the Jamaican Blue
> Mountain & Kona blends on the shelves don't really taste like those
> coffees at 100% strength? And, should it be Costco's job to educate the
> public?
>
> I am a coffee lover, have been for over 50+ years. But I'm also a
> businessman who's never asked anyone to do something for me if I could do
> it myself. I didn't whine or cry foul when I lost a contract bid (even
> when I knew it wasn't on the up & up). So I'm not terribly sympathetic to
> the Kona farmers plight. Business is about change, good or bad isn't an
> issue, just the inevitability of change & who controls the direction &
> pace of it.
Oh sod off. It's people like you that result in Byzantine laws being
enacted to substitute legislative micromanagement for honesty and fair
dealing.
I for one have had enough of your "if it's legal then it's right" bullshit.
<plonk >
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 17:13:16
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
It's not that your argument is lame, although it is; what's most
disconcerting is your naiveté. Ignore legality & insert your own moral
sensitivities into business & you'll end up with a Ken Lay in every board
room. Honesty and fair play are excellent words, but like most words,
subject to reinterpretation as situations change. Business law is all about
providing a level playing field for all parties.
And as far as your simplistic, "I for one have had enough of your "if it's
legal then it's right" bullshit", attitudes, plonk away big guy. Burying
one's head in the sand has always been an effective way of dealing with
issues.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > wrote in message
news:eadcab0h49@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> Oh sod off. It's people like you that result in Byzantine laws being
> enacted to substitute legislative micromanagement for honesty and fair
> dealing.
>
> I for one have had enough of your "if it's legal then it's right"
> bullshit.
>
> <plonk>
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 12:02:53
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:13:16 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>It's not that your argument is lame, although it is; what's most
>disconcerting is your naiveté. Ignore legality & insert your own moral
>sensitivities into business & you'll end up with a Ken Lay in every board
>room. Honesty and fair play are excellent words, but like most words,
>subject to reinterpretation as situations change. Business law is all about
>providing a level playing field for all parties.
>
>And as far as your simplistic, "I for one have had enough of your "if it's
>legal then it's right" bullshit", attitudes, plonk away big guy. Burying
>one's head in the sand has always been an effective way of dealing with
>issues.
Of course, your thoughts and idiocies make me wonder whether or not it
is better to have one's head buried in the sand or up one's own ass as
yours is.
jim
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 23:52:26
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
ensenadajim wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:13:16 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It's not that your argument is lame, although it is; what's most
>>disconcerting is your naiveté. Ignore legality & insert your own moral
>>sensitivities into business & you'll end up with a Ken Lay in every board
>>room. Honesty and fair play are excellent words, but like most words,
>>subject to reinterpretation as situations change. Business law is all
>>about providing a level playing field for all parties.
>>
>>And as far as your simplistic, "I for one have had enough of your "if it's
>>legal then it's right" bullshit", attitudes, plonk away big guy. Burying
>>one's head in the sand has always been an effective way of dealing with
>>issues.
>
> Of course, your thoughts and idiocies make me wonder whether or not it
> is better to have one's head buried in the sand or up one's own ass as
> yours is.
Fascinating, simply fascinating.
Now, I don't see anything from you except "rah rah Harmon" and assorted
insults directed at various people, so I guess that you can join Harmon.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 29 Jul 2006 13:04:37
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:52:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid > wrote:
>ensenadajim wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:13:16 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
>> <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It's not that your argument is lame, although it is; what's most
>>>disconcerting is your naiveté. Ignore legality & insert your own moral
>>>sensitivities into business & you'll end up with a Ken Lay in every board
>>>room. Honesty and fair play are excellent words, but like most words,
>>>subject to reinterpretation as situations change. Business law is all
>>>about providing a level playing field for all parties.
>>>
>>>And as far as your simplistic, "I for one have had enough of your "if it's
>>>legal then it's right" bullshit", attitudes, plonk away big guy. Burying
>>>one's head in the sand has always been an effective way of dealing with
>>>issues.
>>
>> Of course, your thoughts and idiocies make me wonder whether or not it
>> is better to have one's head buried in the sand or up one's own ass as
>> yours is.
>
>Fascinating, simply fascinating.
>
>Now, I don't see anything from you except "rah rah Harmon" and assorted
>insults directed at various people, so I guess that you can join Harmon.
Do what ya gotta do, don't talk about it. "Rah, Rah?" Are your ever
off-base. And looking at yourself in the mirror: just what did you
contribute?
jim
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 20:13:26
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
And how is a statement such as yours doing anything but reducing the
collective IQ of this group?
It's not fair that others use the law & common sense to further their
arguments while all you can do is model your rhetoric after Al Gore's model,
right? "When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have
the law on your side, argue the law. When you have neither, holler."
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"ensenadajim" <ensenadaXXXjim@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ainkc25icgscbhaegbn8n53bfghreh1hef@4ax.com...
>
> Of course, your thoughts and idiocies make me wonder whether or not it
> is better to have one's head buried in the sand or up one's own ass as
> yours is.
>
>
> jim
>
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 21:21:51
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:13:26 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > apologist for the corporate rape and pillage
set wrote:
>And how is a statement such as yours doing anything but reducing the
>collective IQ of this group?
>
>It's not fair that others use the law & common sense to further their
>arguments while all you can do is model your rhetoric after Al Gore's model,
>right? "When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have
>the law on your side, argue the law. When you have neither, holler."
You really don;t have a clue at all, do you? You've been told it time
and aain and we'renot seeing it go in one of your ears and out the
other. Perhaps it is getting lost in the vacuum between.
jim
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 15:59:57
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:Gduyg.4201$gF6.543@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> And how is a statement such as yours doing anything but reducing the
> collective IQ of this group?
>
And it _could_ also be said that the collective IQ of this group will rise
when you leave...
> It's not fair that others use the law & common sense to further their
> arguments while all you can do is model your rhetoric after Al Gore's
model,
> right? "When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you
have
> the law on your side, argue the law. When you have neither, holler."
which do you have? is it facts, law or neither? cos' you sure holler a lot.
It appears you have still, after all this time, not googled the history
associated with this issue and still think it's just fine if ballots are
rigged by the 'legal' means of having proxies filled out 'voluntarily' by
employees to sway the vote. After all it's legal so it must be just fine.
The end justifies the means.
Well _you_ deserve what we will get: kona that is 90% something else,
and doesn't say so, since it is not required by 'law' to say so.
Johnny "rise and shine"
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:16:39
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> OK, the elitist vs. the populist then. Is it better for many people to have
> SOME Kona in their cup or should it be reserved for the right-thinking few
> capable of really enjoying it? As my ol' professor was fond of saying, "For
> every argument there is a counter argument. If you cannot recognize the
> other persons point of view & argue it successfully then you are too one
> dimensional in your thinking." It seems to me that finding common ground
> would work to your advantage better than name calling & maybe even a little
> histrionics.
Excellent posting! In appreciation, I'd like to offer our finest Kona
blend:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/konablend/
We also have a special marketing plan you are eligable to join.
Bob Wilson
|
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 13:02:27
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Thanks Bob! That's the sort of reply that makes Usenet what it is today.
Smart, witty, well planned & executed, I only wish I'd thought of it first!
;)
For those who believe that Smith Farms is being hurt by the blenders, please
explain how. The blender is required to state on the front of the package
that the product is a blend. The coffee farmer leading the argument here is
a single-source vendor, much like an wine estate. It's product is grown in a
single vineyard & produced as a discrete product. It's USUALLY considered
to be the finest wines & sells for an appropriate price. Yet the 'blenders'
who produce varietals wines also have been known to produce excellent
products even with the mandatory percentages imposed by the legal &
association requirements.
The biggest differences between the two products, coffee & wine, is that the
public has been conditioned to accept wide price ranges & estate & varietals
pricing, as well as distinguishing between the qualities of various
varietals. Until the coffee industry can educate the buying public vis-ŕ-vis
the distinction between Folgers in their cup & 100% Smith Farms Kona, the
small elite farmers are fighting a losing battle.
And they should be thanking the blenders, not vilifying them, because
they're at least putting a 'Kona' product in the marketplace. In their own
way they're doing what Smith Farms should be doing, helping to make the
coffee buying public aware of the 'Kona' products.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"Bob Wilson" <bwilson4use@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1hj0lxk.ugxmzr1n5nhs0N%bwilson4use@hotmail.com...
> Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, the elitist vs. the populist then. Is it better for many people to
>> have
>> SOME Kona in their cup or should it be reserved for the right-thinking
>> few
>> capable of really enjoying it? As my ol' professor was fond of saying,
>> "For
>> every argument there is a counter argument. If you cannot recognize the
>> other persons point of view & argue it successfully then you are too one
>> dimensional in your thinking." It seems to me that finding common ground
>> would work to your advantage better than name calling & maybe even a
>> little
>> histrionics.
>
> Excellent posting! In appreciation, I'd like to offer our finest Kona
> blend:
>
> http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/konablend/
>
> We also have a special marketing plan you are eligable to join.
>
> Bob Wilson
>
>
>
|
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:18:36
From: GeeDubb
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
"Robert Harmon"
> And they should be thanking the blenders, not vilifying them, because
> they're at least putting a 'Kona' product in the marketplace. In their own
> way they're doing what Smith Farms should be doing, helping to make the
> coffee buying public aware of the 'Kona' products.
> --
I would think it depends on what it's being blended with. Associating Kona
with the taste of Vietnamese Robusta would make the coffee buying public
turn their nose......then on the other hand.....I guess most coffee drinkers
would think this a good taste. For example, a neighbor recently vacationed
on the big island. He was very excited to give me three samples of Kona
blends, pre-ground, that he had obtained while there. To him, these were
very good coffees and he was very excited to give them to me. I had to at
least try them and try I did, right before pouring them down the sink and
running for the water to rinse my mouth. I'm not a picky coffee drinker but
these were horrible. This will forever leave an impression of what Kona is
even if I know that Smith Farms 100% Kona is one of the smoothest and best
tasting coffees I've tried.
Gary
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 09:00:28
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
. . .
>
> For those who believe that Smith Farms is being hurt by the blenders, please
> explain how. The blender is required to state on the front of the package
> that the product is a blend. . . .
It devalues the quality of "Kona" as a distinct coffee. The blend fools
people, like my friends, who bought the Kona blend and found it tasted
terrible. They gave me the blend and I tasted and tossed it. Had I never
had Smithfarms Kona, I might have thought it was just another fraud . .
. the fraud was the blend.
Bob Wilson
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 18:03:09
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:02:27 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>The biggest differences between the two products, coffee & wine, is that the
>public has been conditioned to accept wide price ranges & estate & varietals
>pricing, as well as distinguishing between the qualities of various
>varietals. Until the coffee industry can educate the buying public vis-ŕ-vis
>the distinction between
Not exactly, and yes, I'm from the wine industry.
Wine consumers, at least American wine consumers, wouldn't know Ripple
from Margaux without labels. That's hyperbole but closer to the truth
than the reverse.
The coffee industry needs similar laws to stop greedy packagers from
capitalizing on a region's cache.
The biggest difference between coffee and wine are points of law.
A producer can't call it Champagne if it wasn't produced in Champagne
across Europe and in most other countries as a result of the Madrid
Treaty and the later Treaty of Versailles. This protects the integrity
of the product, and provides consumers with a level of protection.
U.S. champagne is a vastly inferior sparkling wine bearing no
resemblance to true Champagne, but U.S. wine producers are allowed to
use the European names due to a loophole; the Treaty of Versailles was
signed by President Wilson but not ratified by the U.S. Senate.
So, instead of a high quality carefully controlled and regulated
product such as the original, we have $3.00 Andre's crap labeled as,
and in competition with, true champagne.
If you can't follow that road and see the ultimate negative effect on
a product such as Kona coffee, then ...
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 22:44:44
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:02:27 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>Thanks Bob! That's the sort of reply that makes Usenet what it is today.
>Smart, witty, well planned & executed, I only wish I'd thought of it first!
>;)
>
>For those who believe that Smith Farms is being hurt by the blenders, please
>explain how. The blender is required to state on the front of the package
>that the product is a blend. The coffee farmer leading the argument here is
>a single-source vendor, much like an wine estate. It's product is grown in a
>single vineyard & produced as a discrete product. It's USUALLY considered
>to be the finest wines & sells for an appropriate price. Yet the 'blenders'
>who produce varietals wines also have been known to produce excellent
>products even with the mandatory percentages imposed by the legal &
>association requirements.
>
>The biggest differences between the two products, coffee & wine, is that the
>public has been conditioned to accept wide price ranges & estate & varietals
>pricing, as well as distinguishing between the qualities of various
>varietals. Until the coffee industry can educate the buying public vis-ŕ-vis
>the distinction between Folgers in their cup & 100% Smith Farms Kona, the
>small elite farmers are fighting a losing battle.
>
>And they should be thanking the blenders, not vilifying them, because
>they're at least putting a 'Kona' product in the marketplace. In their own
>way they're doing what Smith Farms should be doing, helping to make the
>coffee buying public aware of the 'Kona' products.
I see Wilson's humor and sarcasm went right over your head. You don't
need to duck your head, it's positioned so no one would aim that low.
jim
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:43:44
From: Espressopithecus (Java Man)
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
In article <zLbxg.4153$bP5.214@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com says...
> Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
>
It's a good thing you're here to help us all avoid expressing negative
opinions.
Rick
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2006 15:37:37
From: GeeDubb
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:zLbxg.4153$bP5.214@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
> --
> Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
This coming from a guy that hasn't even PID'd his Silvia yet.........
Gary <(;-}
> <beans@smithfarms.com> wrote in message
> news:q4cac2lrlcocbif0r4v9fp6316v4pc0j1t@4ax.com...
>> If you go to my not particularly important blog
>> http://purekona.blogspot.com/ you will see what occurred this past
>> weekend.
>>
>> Sorry to make you go elsewhere but perhaps that one further step will
>> keep out the creeps!
>>
>> aloha,
>> Cea
>>
>> --smithfarms.com
>> farmers of pure kona
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 19:41:28
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Robert Harmon wrote:
> Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
Very off the cuff remark. Try Googling this group for the story (if
you are at all interested)..
Cea has worked hard and most understand her (and other farmers) views.
Or do you believe that the large corporation should be able to diffuse
the brand to the extent that the product could contain <10% of the
advertised product?
--
Regards, Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 20:20:43
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
I'm having a hard time understanding the rancor over this issue. The
blenders must clearly state the percentage of Kona in their product. That is
plenty of protection for both growers & consumers. And I do understand their
point of view; protect the status quo. It's old news in business circles -
in fact at one point a law existed in New York that all motor vehicles had
to be equipped with a buggy whip, oat bag, and shovel & broom. Was this
intended to help the vehicle owner make better use of it or was it really a
way for the powerful hardware store owners to sell more of their goods?
A silly example maybe but if anyone cared to do a little research there are
thousands of such silly examples of protectionism & pork barrel boondoggles
around us everywhere. How about the dairy farmers whose price subsidies
requires them to dump excess inventories in the sewer, or the 'poor'
corporate farmers who're paid NOT to plant crops to keep prices artificially
high? Maybe the Kona farmers want Congress to pass subsidies for anyone
marketing 100% Kona coffee?
The problem in Hawaii isn't the coffee farmers being ripped off by the
blenders. It is simply a small minority of people trying to maintain control
of a product that for the most part the consuming public doesn't know or
care about. If they want to win this battle they've got to make the public
understand and appreciate the difference between a Kona blend & pure Kona
coffee. That won't be done in this newsgroup or by forming new committees.
It'll have to be done in the offices of New York's advertising mavens.
How? Marketing isn't my bag, but there are some very good people who can
help the shape the public's opinion. If the Kona farmers choose not to fight
for their products why should any of us give a damn?
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"Danny" <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote in message
news:4ipramF4tlmeU1@individual.net...
> Robert Harmon wrote:
>> Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail.
>
> Very off the cuff remark. Try Googling this group for the story (if you
> are at all interested)..
>
> Cea has worked hard and most understand her (and other farmers) views.
>
> Or do you believe that the large corporation should be able to diffuse the
> brand to the extent that the product could contain <10% of the advertised
> product?
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 04:21:40
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:20:43 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>I'm having a hard time understanding the rancor over this issue. The
>blenders must clearly state the percentage of Kona in their product.
ONLY IN HAWAII.
blended product sold elsewhere needs no declaration nor minimum
percentage of the named component.
if a blend is 1% kona and 99% panamanian, is it more truthful to label
it "kona blend" or "panama blend"?
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 04:15:29
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Quoth "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com >:
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 11:18:43
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Robert Harmon wrote:
> I'm having a hard time understanding the rancor over this issue. The
> blenders must clearly state the percentage of Kona in their product. That is
> plenty of protection for both growers & consumers. And I do understand their
> point of view; protect the status quo. It's old news in business circles -
> in fact at one point a law existed in New York that all motor vehicles had
> to be equipped with a buggy whip, oat bag, and shovel & broom. Was this
> intended to help the vehicle owner make better use of it or was it really a
> way for the powerful hardware store owners to sell more of their goods?
-snip-
I suggested you read previous threads, but apparently you don't wish
to be fully availed of the facts and issues before you continue with
your current stance. As Barry noted, the new movement is trying to
ensure that the brand is diluted, and there are no percentage markings
currently required on exports. This is exactly what Cea and the
coffee council were trying to establish before the big boys moved in.
--
Regards, Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 14:11:07
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:v8Qxg.3447$gF6.551@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I'm having a hard time understanding the rancor over this issue.
That could possibly be due to your own lack of research on the subject...
> The
> blenders must clearly state the percentage of Kona in their product.
It is my undertsnding that for export they don't need to.
>It is simply a small minority of people trying to maintain control
> of a product that for the most part the consuming public doesn't know or
> care about.
The small minority is the blenders...who find the need to embellish their
numbers by filling out proxies in the name of their workers.
Johnny "rise and shine ;-)"
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:52:13
From: butch burton
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
"Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail."
How can anyone not see what the Wayman crowd are doing - their 90/10
blending ploy will destroy the reputation of Kona Coffee - once
destroyed it is a bear to get back.
The election trick is something else - they obviously had this very
well planned. If they have a large warchest to fight legal action, the
reputation of Kona Coffee maybe headed down the tubes.
Several people in the CA wine industry tried various labeling ruses to
sell central valley plonk as high quality coastal wines - thankfully
that practice was eliminated or people saw through what some of the
fraudsters were trying to do and the products died a natural death.
Amazing how con artists are so very adept at deception. Wonder how
much they can skim off the public with the blending scam before they
eliminate any positive attributes Kona now has. Might take years.
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 11:54:32
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
In article <1153839133.833124.56400@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com >,
"butch burton" <spacetrax@wi.rr.com > wrote:
> "Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose view did not prevail."
>
> How can anyone not see what the Wayman crowd are doing - their 90/10
> blending ploy will destroy the reputation of Kona Coffee - once
> destroyed it is a bear to get back.
>
> The election trick is something else - they obviously had this very
> well planned. If they have a large warchest to fight legal action, the
> reputation of Kona Coffee maybe headed down the tubes.
>
> Several people in the CA wine industry tried various labeling ruses to
> sell central valley plonk as high quality coastal wines - thankfully
> that practice was eliminated or people saw through what some of the
> fraudsters were trying to do and the products died a natural death.
>
> Amazing how con artists are so very adept at deception. Wonder how
> much they can skim off the public with the blending scam before they
> eliminate any positive attributes Kona now has. Might take years.
I'm with you!
I've said I don't like Kona and that is because I've only had blends and
not very good ones at that.
People I know, whose opinions I value, tell me that real Kona, not
blended is very good. Unfortunately they've not felt the urge to send
me a whole-bean or green sample to see for myself. ;-(
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 20:36:16
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
> People I know, whose opinions I value, tell me that real Kona, not
> blended is very good. Unfortunately they've not felt the urge to send
> me a whole-bean or green sample to see for myself. ;-(
What do you have to trade for a sample?
Bob Wilson
|
| | | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 04:38:31
From: Mathew Hargreaves
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Why bother. One pound of basic green is $10 from Smithfarms. Let him
order a pound and try it himself and puts some pennies into the Smiths
pockets. He can roast or burn it to his taste.
CHEERS...Matt
Bob Wilson wrote:
>
> Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > People I know, whose opinions I value, tell me that real Kona, not
> > blended is very good. Unfortunately they've not felt the urge to send
> > me a whole-bean or green sample to see for myself. ;-(
>
> What do you have to trade for a sample?
>
> Bob Wilson
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 21:17:02
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Mathew Hargreaves <mathewdh@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
> Why bother. One pound of basic green is $10 from Smithfarms. Let him
> order a pound and try it himself and puts some pennies into the Smiths
> pockets. He can roast or burn it to his taste.
>
> CHEERS...Matt
Cea will get my re-order just as well. In my case, I'll get a taste or
two of something different for the cost of postage. I love kona but I'm
not so narrow as to thing there isn't something else that wouldn't be
interesting. If he likes the kona, he'll make is own order, again for
the cost of stateside shipping.
Everyone is happy.
Bob Wilson
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 22:21:15
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
In article <1hj1snf.o9elsa1k6remkN%bwilson4use@hotmail.com >,
bwilson4use@hotmail.com (Bob Wilson) wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > People I know, whose opinions I value, tell me that real Kona, not
> > blended is very good. Unfortunately they've not felt the urge to send
> > me a whole-bean or green sample to see for myself. ;-(
>
> What do you have to trade for a sample?
>
> Bob Wilson
Since I've just started in roasting, I've got a lot of small sample 1/2
lb packs. I'd rather not trade those as I've not tried all of them yet.
But I also have :
SM's DP Yirgacheffe
Willoughby's FTO Harar
SM's Brazil Cerrado 5th Place Faz. Pantano
and coming, as soon as I get confirmation, SM's new lot of Harar.
email me if you are interested in any of these and what ratio you'd
like. My email is valid.
I'm interested in 1/4 lb of pure Kona green as that would allow 2
batches to test with.
thanks for your interest.
Lloyd
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 21:17:01
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
> In article <1hj1snf.o9elsa1k6remkN%bwilson4use@hotmail.com>,
> bwilson4use@hotmail.com (Bob Wilson) wrote:
>
> > Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > People I know, whose opinions I value, tell me that real Kona, not
> > > blended is very good. Unfortunately they've not felt the urge to send
> > > me a whole-bean or green sample to see for myself. ;-(
> >
> > What do you have to trade for a sample?
> >
> > Bob Wilson
>
> Since I've just started in roasting, I've got a lot of small sample 1/2
> lb packs. I'd rather not trade those as I've not tried all of them yet.
> But I also have :
>
> SM's DP Yirgacheffe
> Willoughby's FTO Harar
> SM's Brazil Cerrado 5th Place Faz. Pantano
>
> and coming, as soon as I get confirmation, SM's new lot of Harar.
>
> email me if you are interested in any of these and what ratio you'd
> like. My email is valid.
>
> I'm interested in 1/4 lb of pure Kona green as that would allow 2
> batches to test with.
>
> thanks for your interest.
My e-mail is valid too. Will a dry cup work for you or will you need
two?
Send me your postal address and I'll get it out, cheap rate this week.
Once you get it, work up an equvalent volume, either one or two types,
and send them back. Stateside shipping should be pretty cheap.
I'm using an iRoast at 450F for the max, 15 minutes for a dark roast.
These are high moisture content beans.
Bob Wilson
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2006 23:54:26
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Mr. Harman's argument is robust, but falls because Kona coffee, as
the Vidalia onion is a rare example of an exception that should be
protected.
The fight for Kona is not a fight between elitists and the common man,
it is a fight for truth in labeling, consumer protection, and the right
of the small to have a level playing field against the mighty. In Kona
today it is a time to speak truth to power, and that is what these
independent small farmers are doing, even in the face of losing control
of their trade association, The Kona Coffee Council, to their
opposition, still they are fighting on, and all of us on the mainland
who understand the history and stakes in this struggle should applaud
their efforts as they are fighting on our behalf, to preserve protect
and defend America's coffee gift to the world from degradation in the
marketplace.
-Donald Schoenholt
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:59:23
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On 24 Jul 2006 23:54:26 -0700, i840coffee@optonline.net wrote:
>Mr. Harman's argument is robust, but falls because Kona coffee, as
>the Vidalia onion is a rare example of an exception that should be
>protected.
>
>The fight for Kona is not a fight between elitists and the common
man,
>it is a fight for truth in labeling, consumer protection, and the
right
>of the small to have a level playing field against the mighty. In
Kona
>today it is a time to speak truth to power, and that is what these
>independent small farmers are doing, even in the face of losing
control
>of their trade association, The Kona Coffee Council, to their
>opposition, still they are fighting on, and all of us on the mainland
>who understand the history and stakes in this struggle should applaud
>their efforts as they are fighting on our behalf, to preserve protect
>and defend America's coffee gift to the world from degradation in the
>marketplace.
>
>-Donald Schoenholt
Oh thank you so much Donald! You do understand so well.
warmest aloha from far away,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 01:06:35
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On 24 Jul 2006 23:54:26 -0700, i840coffee@optonline.net wrote:
>Mr. Harman's argument is robust, but falls because Kona coffee, as
>the Vidalia onion is a rare example of an exception that should be
>protected.
>
>The fight for Kona is not a fight between elitists and the common man,
>it is a fight for truth in labeling, consumer protection, and the right
>of the small to have a level playing field against the mighty. In Kona
>today it is a time to speak truth to power, and that is what these
>independent small farmers are doing, even in the face of losing control
>of their trade association, The Kona Coffee Council, to their
>opposition, still they are fighting on, and all of us on the mainland
>who understand the history and stakes in this struggle should applaud
>their efforts as they are fighting on our behalf, to preserve protect
>and defend America's coffee gift to the world from degradation in the
>marketplace.
>
>-Donald Schoenholt
Well said. Wondering if this goes over Harman's head.
jim
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 16:55:38
From: Neal Reid
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
In article
<1153810466.293062.105270@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com >,
i840coffee@optonline.net wrote:
> Mr. Harman's argument is robust, but falls because Kona coffee, as
> the Vidalia onion is a rare example of an exception that should be
> protected.
>
> The fight for Kona is not a fight between elitists and the common man,
> it is a fight for truth in labeling, consumer protection, and the right
> of the small to have a level playing field against the mighty. In Kona
> today it is a time to speak truth to power, and that is what these
> independent small farmers are doing, even in the face of losing control
> of their trade association, The Kona Coffee Council, to their
> opposition, still they are fighting on, and all of us on the mainland
> who understand the history and stakes in this struggle should applaud
> their efforts as they are fighting on our behalf, to preserve protect
> and defend America's coffee gift to the world from degradation in the
> marketplace.
>
> -Donald Schoenholt
This brings to mind the biggest boondoogle of them all in the
coffee world (IMHO).
Blue Mountain has a reputation that has held the price at
ridiculous levels - despite the fact that the coffee is nothing
special.
Someone has mentioned the average (American) can't tell plonk from
good wine without a label. Just so with coffee. I've known snobs
who 'only drink the best' - JBM or nothing. When I explain to them
the more JBM is sold IN THE UNITED STATES alone than is GROWN, and
that most of the true stuff is actually exported to Japan (i.e. in
all likelyhood what they are buying as JBM has little, if any REAL
BM coffee in it), they don't care - they're drinking the NAME not
the taste.
I applaud Cea. It's too bad we live in a society where (many
believe) their importance is proportional to their bank balance.
But I believe there's sufficient market out there for the masses
to buy the name while those of us who can TASTE will keep Cea and
her ilk in business, just as we have the Wallensford estate...
--
M for N in address to mail reply
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 21:03:53
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:55:38 -0400, Neal Reid <NealReid@Nagma.ca >
wrote:
>When I explain to them
>the more JBM is sold IN THE UNITED STATES alone than is GROWN,
I seem to remember something like that being discovered about another
locale
Did that happen more than once?
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 13:34:40
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:03:53 GMT, Steve <not@use.net > wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:55:38 -0400, Neal Reid <NealReid@Nagma.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>When I explain to them
>>the more JBM is sold IN THE UNITED STATES alone than is GROWN,
>
>I seem to remember something like that being discovered about another
>locale
>Did that happen more than once?
Thanks everybody. You are awesome!
Yes, it happened in Kona! 1996 in November when the Customs Agents
raided Kona Kai's office. The rumour said something like 2,000,000
pounds was produced and 20,000,000 was being sold.
aloha from Kona,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
|
| | | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2006 20:45:22
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On 2006-07-25, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com > wrote:
> Yes, it happened in Kona! 1996 in November when the Customs Agents
> raided Kona Kai's office. The rumour said something like 2,000,000
> pounds was produced and 20,000,000 was being sold.
That sounds familiar. I recall about that time a big scandal in the
San Francisco Bay Area. It was discovered a local importer/wholesaler
of Kona coffee was found to be defrauding his customers. Coffee that
was no more than 10% Kona, if that, was being sold as 100% Kona on a
scale of about 10 million dollars worth. As I recall, he did receive
some prison time.
Best of luck on turning the situation around and getting control of
your product back.
nb
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 06:13:24
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:45:22 -0500, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:
>On 2006-07-25, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, it happened in Kona! 1996 in November when the Customs Agents
>> raided Kona Kai's office. The rumour said something like 2,000,000
>> pounds was produced and 20,000,000 was being sold.
>
>That sounds familiar. I recall about that time a big scandal in the
>San Francisco Bay Area. It was discovered a local importer/wholesaler
>of Kona coffee was found to be defrauding his customers. Coffee that
>was no more than 10% Kona, if that, was being sold as 100% Kona on a
>scale of about 10 million dollars worth. As I recall, he did receive
>some prison time.
>
same scandal.
kona kai had a farm in HI and offices/warehouse in emeryville.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2006 13:41:33
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
>
>Thanks everybody. You are awesome!
>
>Yes, it happened in Kona! 1996 in November when the Customs Agents
>raided Kona Kai's office. The rumour said something like 2,000,000
>pounds was produced and 20,000,000 was being sold.
>
A good friend of mine did me a really great favor, and so to repay him
I roasted the only batch (about 250g) of 100% genuine Kona peaberry I
had (it was given to me, green). He had previously told me that Kona
was his favorite coffee- a fact I filed away in what little memory I
have left....
He told me the batch I gave him was the best coffee he had ever
tasted. I re-mentioned the benefit of fresh roasted (I have given him
a few pounds of fresh roast over the years), but he was shocked to
hear how little real Hawaiian coffee some of the "Kona blends"
contained.
I suppose we could debate the value of the name "Kona," but the way it
is misused ("Kona Blend from Hawaii" on a package means nothing to me
as a consumer), some of these blenders, and the lack of any real truth
in labeling in regards to coffee blends, has already figuratively
watered down the value of the name and literally watered down the
taste.
In this political age, it would seem that a coffee labeled with a red,
white, and blue sticker proclaiming "The only coffee grown in the
United States" or "100% American Grown" (Yes, I know, America is also
a continent, etc.) would have great value! But unfortunately they see
themselves selling 10x more coffee then they can grow by blending it
with lower-quality coffee and thus selling in greater quantity.
Eventually they will blend themselves to the point that they are
competing on a taste-level with Folger's. Sad, indeed.
Randy "they have no pride" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2006 13:36:25
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:41:33 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
.....
>
>He told me the batch I gave him was the best coffee he had ever
>tasted. I re-mentioned the benefit of fresh roasted (I have given him
>a few pounds of fresh roast over the years), but he was shocked to
>hear how little real Hawaiian coffee some of the "Kona blends"
>contained.
>
>I suppose we could debate the value of the name "Kona," but the way
it
>is misused ("Kona Blend from Hawaii" on a package means nothing to me
>as a consumer), some of these blenders, and the lack of any real
truth
>in labeling in regards to coffee blends, has already figuratively
>watered down the value of the name and literally watered down the
>taste.
>
>In this political age, it would seem that a coffee labeled with a
red,
>white, and blue sticker proclaiming "The only coffee grown in the
>United States" or "100% American Grown" (Yes, I know, America is also
>a continent, etc.) would have great value! But unfortunately they see
>themselves selling 10x more coffee then they can grow by blending it
>with lower-quality coffee and thus selling in greater quantity.
>Eventually they will blend themselves to the point that they are
>competing on a taste-level with Folger's. Sad, indeed.
>
> Randy "they have no pride" G.
>http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
Thanks Randy, it is about profit to the blender (and he probably
sleeps well at night) but the idea that our State of Hawaii is willing
to sell its soul (10% Kona and 90%whoknowshwat) and the soul of its
citizens because the blender mongoose said so...now that is
outrageous! I just don't get it. We are never going to be called a
proactive/ forward thinking state with the group of yoyo Legislators
we currently have in office. You would die to see how many seats go
uncontested in an election. We had one party in office for 40
straight years.From the time of Statehood in 1959 until last year when
we got a governor (female) from the other party. That alone was
refreshing. I wonder how many more years before we have fresh
courageous brains in the legislature.
I have not checked this fact this year, but I read once that 1/3 of
the people on Oahu, where Honolulu is and where 90% of the population
lives--one third--- work for the government. Can you imagine? I see no
hope for anything to change soon.
Thank you all again for your sweet support.
aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 09:07:41
From: Doug Cadmus
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Robert Harmon wrote:
> Thanks Bob! That's the sort of reply that makes Usenet what it is today.
> Smart, witty, well planned & executed, I only wish I'd thought of it firs=
t!
> ;)
>
> For those who believe that Smith Farms is being hurt by the blenders, ple=
ase
> explain how. The blender is required to state on the front of the package
> that the product is a blend. The coffee farmer leading the argument here =
is
> a single-source vendor, much like an wine estate. It's product is grown i=
n a
> single vineyard & produced as a discrete product. It's USUALLY considered
> to be the finest wines & sells for an appropriate price. Yet the 'blender=
s'
> who produce varietals wines also have been known to produce excellent
> products even with the mandatory percentages imposed by the legal &
> association requirements.
>
> The biggest differences between the two products, coffee & wine, is that =
the
> public has been conditioned to accept wide price ranges & estate & variet=
als
> pricing, as well as distinguishing between the qualities of various
> varietals. Until the coffee industry can educate the buying public vis-=
=E0-vis
> the distinction between Folgers in their cup & 100% Smith Farms Kona, the
> small elite farmers are fighting a losing battle.
While you clearly don't realize it, you're making a case that defines
rather clearly how Smith Farms and other Kona coffee growers have been
harmed.
The Blenders executed a "hostile takeover" of the very trade
organization that small-holder farmers in Kona created to educate the
buying public and to represent their interests in the state
legislature. Pre-takeover, that organization was forwarding a plank to
make labeling still more clear, which would have lent further import to
customer appreciation of the "single-estate" model, and to establish
*new* standards for blenders... those mandatory percentages that you
outline above.
Lacking those increased percentages - and in the absence of more
strident labeling standards - it's quite possible that, in their quest
for short-term gains, the blenders will further confuse the consumer
about just what Kona coffee is supposed to taste like, and ultimately
cause irreparable harm to all of Kona coffee -- single estates and
blenders too.
> And they should be thanking the blenders, not vilifying them, because
> they're at least putting a 'Kona' product in the marketplace. In their own
> way they're doing what Smith Farms should be doing, helping to make the
> coffee buying public aware of the 'Kona' products.
There's a word for this... Oh, I remember! *Bullshit*.
-deCadmus
www.bloggle.com
Made in Vermont
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 05:52:51
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Gentlemen, gentlemen, you are being taken in by Mr. Harmon's rather odd
sense of contrarian humor. Since a doral graduate of (wait for
it...) The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (whew..) could not
possibly be stupid enough actually to endorse the arguments he has put
forward, we must assume that this is merely an example of the pleasure
he takes in being a 'giner ('gin this, 'gin that). This is not an
unusual phenomenon among some of our senior citizens. The best
response is no response.
Will
Bob Wilson wrote:
> Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > OK, the elitist vs. the populist then. Is it better for many people to have
> > SOME Kona in their cup or should it be reserved for the right-thinking few
> > capable of really enjoying it? As my ol' professor was fond of saying, "For
> > every argument there is a counter argument. If you cannot recognize the
> > other persons point of view & argue it successfully then you are too one
> > dimensional in your thinking." It seems to me that finding common ground
> > would work to your advantage better than name calling & maybe even a little
> > histrionics.
>
> Excellent posting! In appreciation, I'd like to offer our finest Kona
> blend:
>
> http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/konablend/
>
> We also have a special marketing plan you are eligable to join.
>
> Bob Wilson
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 21:17:03
From: Bob Wilson
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Omniryx@gmail.com <Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote:
> Gentlemen, gentlemen, you are being taken in by Mr. Harmon's rather odd
> sense of contrarian humor. Since a doral graduate of (wait for
> it...) The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (whew..) could not
> possibly be stupid enough actually to endorse the arguments he has put
> forward, we must assume that this is merely an example of the pleasure
> he takes in being a 'giner ('gin this, 'gin that). This is not an
> unusual phenomenon among some of our senior citizens. The best
> response is no response.
Uhhhh, don't feed the troll?
Bob Wilson
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 23:48:51
From: ensenadajim
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On 26 Jul 2006 05:52:51 -0700, "Omniryx@gmail.com" <Omniryx@gmail.com >
wrote:
>Gentlemen, gentlemen, you are being taken in by Mr. Harmon's rather odd
>sense of contrarian humor. Since a doral graduate of (wait for
>it...) The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (whew..) could not
>possibly be stupid enough actually to endorse the arguments he has put
>forward, we must assume that this is merely an example of the pleasure
>he takes in being a 'giner ('gin this, 'gin that). This is not an
>unusual phenomenon among some of our senior citizens. The best
>response is no response.
>
Nice spin, but were it simply a contrarian sense of humor and given
that he is supposed to be intelligent, when he received the flack he
rightfully received, he should have backed out or explained himself -
not continued the same stupidity.
jim
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 02:58:58
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
How could ANYONE oppose protecting a known and globally respected
coffee variety?
HOW?
Smithfarms has a lot of people on YOUR side.
DAve
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 18:24:37
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:59:23 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
>If you go to my not particularly important blog
>http://purekona.blogspot.com/ you will see what occurred this past
>weekend.
>
>Sorry to make you go elsewhere but perhaps that one further step will
>keep out the creeps!
>
>aloha,
>Cea
>
> --smithfarms.com
>farmers of pure kona
While I sympathize with your plight, you have little to fear.
The vast majority of Kona available is only distinguished by the label
from the rest of the dreck that claims to be 'coffee'
Of all the people I know that claim to love coffee, only ONE actually
knows what is coffee. Most mindlessly dump in cream and sugar,
regardless of the pedigree.
Kona gets its fine reputation from cognoscenti who are unlikely to be
duped by scoundrel's blends and will continue to sing its praises far
and wide. The rabble will follow...
The cream always rises to the top.
Fear not and prosper.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 09:30:26
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:37 GMT, "I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:59:23 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
>
>
>While I sympathize with your plight, you have little to fear.
>
>The vast majority of Kona available is only distinguished by the
label
>from the rest of the dreck that claims to be 'coffee'
>
>Of all the people I know that claim to love coffee, only ONE actually
>knows what is coffee. Most mindlessly dump in cream and sugar,
>regardless of the pedigree.
>
>Kona gets its fine reputation from cognoscenti who are unlikely to be
>duped by scoundrel's blends and will continue to sing its praises far
>and wide. The rabble will follow...
>
>The cream always rises to the top.
>
>Fear not and prosper.
Thank You ALL, really sending you all lots of *aloha*, for your kind
and very generous support. It is about the level playing field and
not about corporate farming.
You all are the real coffee aficionados and the *real coffee* drinkers
and you would never be fooled about the 10% Blend.
I'll be sending your much appreciated comments around to the fairly
new group- the Kona Coffee Farmers Association
<http://www.konacoffeefarmers.org/ >, and each one will appreciate your
thoughtfulness. This new group is made up of only Kona Coffee farmers
and we have lost some of our naivete, e.g. won't accept proxies in
annual voting:) and have great focus and even grater ideas.
In the vernacular, you all *rock*!
warmest aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 02:13:46
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:30:26 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
> This new group is made up of only Kona Coffee farmers
>and we have lost some of our naivete, e.g. won't accept proxies in
>annual voting:) and have great focus and even grater ideas.
>
>In the vernacular, you all *rock*!
>
>warmest aloha,
>Cea
> --smithfarms.com
>farmers of pure kona
Good luck, Cea. But, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Some organizations can't get quorums together when they need them
without proxies. You might consider focusing on who gets to vote in
the first place, rather than doing away with proxies. Be sure you have
a lawyer who is familiar with Hawaii nonprofit law.
NOT LEGAL ADVICE, etc., etc.
Marshall
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2006 15:43:34
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
<beans@smithfarms.com > wrote in message
news:58gfc2pb7hkevunn2ehv9jh2iv4a2s7bl7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:37 GMT, "I->Ian" <someone@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:59:23 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>While I sympathize with your plight, you have little to fear.
>>
>>The vast majority of Kona available is only distinguished by the
> label
>>from the rest of the dreck that claims to be 'coffee'
>>
>>Of all the people I know that claim to love coffee, only ONE actually
>>knows what is coffee. Most mindlessly dump in cream and sugar,
>>regardless of the pedigree.
>>
>>Kona gets its fine reputation from cognoscenti who are unlikely to be
>>duped by scoundrel's blends and will continue to sing its praises far
>>and wide. The rabble will follow...
>>
>>The cream always rises to the top.
>>
>>Fear not and prosper.
>
> Thank You ALL, really sending you all lots of *aloha*, for your kind
> and very generous support. It is about the level playing field and
> not about corporate farming.
>
> You all are the real coffee aficionados and the *real coffee* drinkers
> and you would never be fooled about the 10% Blend.
>
> I'll be sending your much appreciated comments around to the fairly
> new group- the Kona Coffee Farmers Association
> <http://www.konacoffeefarmers.org/>, and each one will appreciate your
> thoughtfulness. This new group is made up of only Kona Coffee farmers
> and we have lost some of our naivete, e.g. won't accept proxies in
> annual voting:) and have great focus and even grater ideas.
>
> In the vernacular, you all *rock*!
>
> warmest aloha,
> Cea
> --smithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
Hey Cea, both yourself & Bob ***ROCK!!!*** {:-) {:-D
Cheers!
Craig.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 04:55:10
From: butch burton
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
Barry Jarrett wrote:
if a blend is 1% kona and 99% panamanian, is it more truthful to label
it "kona blend" or "panama blend"?
The "Kona Blender" is apparently selling a lot of the stuff - wonder
what he is blending with - somebody has to unload the stuff - would be
interesting to see how nasty a product he is using to blend with. If
it is Vietnamese Robusta triage - how low can you go?
Anybody got any idea of what they are blending with?
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2006 06:15:30
From:
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
On 27 Jul 2006 04:55:10 -0700, "butch burton" <spacetrax@wi.rr.com >
wrote:
>Barry Jarrett wrote:
>if a blend is 1% kona and 99% panamanian, is it more truthful to
label
>it "kona blend" or "panama blend"?
>
>The "Kona Blender" is apparently selling a lot of the stuff - wonder
>what he is blending with - somebody has to unload the stuff - would
be
>interesting to see how nasty a product he is using to blend with. If
>it is Vietnamese Robusta triage - how low can you go?
>
>Anybody got any idea of what they are blending with?
We're curious about that too. You would think Truth in Labeling would
necessitate that you tell what 90% of the stuff in the bag is, but it
doesn't. I may have said ti before but he - Wayman- Hawaii Coffee
Company of Lion's Coffee and Royal Kona, brings in tons of green to
obviously mix with the 10% Kona. In fairness he does sell some 100%
Kona, but much! much! more blend and junk stuff like "cookies &
creme", or "macadamia flavored...". Wish we knew.
aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2006 07:01:10
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Kona Issue Update with Opinions
|
|
|
