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Date: 25 Jun 2006 15:06:28
From: Alan
Subject: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni
Europiccola at a pretty good price; but, before I do, I'd appreciate if
anyone can answer a few questions for me:
(1) Since there is no pump, it would appear that the pressure at which the
water is forced thru the coffee is entirely dependent on the amount of force
one uses in pulling down the lever --- is this correct?
(1a) If this is correct, what is the maximum "bar" that can be
achieved using this lever method? (Technical specifications
indicate a boiler pressure of 0.7 - 0.8 bars, but this is, of course,
independent of the pressure exerted thru lever use)
(2) Does it operate just as well starting out with only a partially filled
boiler? (I usually make only one or two cups at a time once a day, and it'd
be a bit of pain to wait for a full boiler (one liter) to heat up.
Additionally, (and this may not be rational) I don't like the idea of
leaving water in the boiler to stagnate until the next time I use the
machine)
(3) What, if any, are the "down" sides of the Europiccola? (e.g. are certain
parts notorious for breaking or wearing out quickly? Is it difficult to get
parts? Are there any features in its design that are inherently
troublesome?, etc
Thanking you in advance for your answers and for your comments . . .
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 11:28:08
From: notbob
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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On 2006-06-25, Alan <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni
If you're looking for consistently good espresso, my advice is pass.
I've had one for several years. Never could get consistent shots, and
not for the lack of trying. To this day, I love their appearance and
clean-up is a breeze, but they're just too eratic. I now have a pump
machine and I'm a happy camper. I'm selling my LP ...cheap.
nb
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 18:07:02
From: Alan
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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"notbob" wrote
[...]
I'm selling my LP ...cheap.
>
> nb
and how cheap would that be? (my neighbor wants to sell his for $100) . . .
reply to my email if you'd like to sell
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 00:01:16
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 13:27:06
From: John LaBella
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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In article <449f2389.33393527@localhost >, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu
says...
>
> Most people who have both a Pavoni lever and a good pump machine, and who
> make more than a shot or two a day, seem to use the pump machine most often,
> just for sheer convenience and simplicity. There is however an active
> group of enthusiasts who love their home lever machines, and there is no
> denying that with care and practice you can get a very nice shot from one.
Next time you are through here I will have to try a shot for you with my
Pav.
The other thing they are REALLY good for is if you have a group of
people and they are wanting coffee flavoured milk drinks. You can use
your pump machine to generate the shots while the Pav steams away quite
merrily - no concerns for having to heat up or cool down as needed.
>
> - David R.
> --
> Less information than you ever thought possible:
> http://www.demitasse.net
>
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 10:36:22
From: RED DEVIL
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:27:06 GMT, John LaBella <blank@dev.com > wrote:
>In article <449f2389.33393527@localhost>, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu
>says...
>>
>> Most people who have both a Pavoni lever and a good pump machine, and who
>> make more than a shot or two a day, seem to use the pump machine most often,
>> just for sheer convenience and simplicity. There is however an active
>> group of enthusiasts who love their home lever machines, and there is no
>> denying that with care and practice you can get a very nice shot from one.
>Next time you are through here I will have to try a shot for you with my
>Pav.
>
>The other thing they are REALLY good for is if you have a group of
>people and they are wanting coffee flavoured milk drinks. You can use
>your pump machine to generate the shots while the Pav steams away quite
>merrily - no concerns for having to heat up or cool down as needed.
>>
>> - David R.
Owning a Pav is more a labor of love than anything else. So many
things have to be perfect to get that special shot but when it happens
you'll know that all that bother was worth it. I own a pump and also
had a superauto for awhile (that was a bad experiment) but I love to
play with my La Pavoni. The grind, tamp, bean have to be just so but
when that happens I don't think there's a better shot on earth. The
fun is getting there. The machine also looks really good sitting on
the counter in the kitchen. A pump will give you a consistant good
shot without too much effort on your part, the lever is an animal of a
different breed, work at it and you'll be rewarded.
La pavoni's are selling every day on Ebay for $250 + each. I've
never seen any going for the 25 or even $100 but if someone has one
at that price I'll take it!
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 22:03:08
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:42:46
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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How cheap? I would love to have one to sit on my shelves next to the
vac pots, presses and other antique brewers I've collected over the
years. Maybe we can trade?....al
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:28:08 -0500, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:
>On 2006-06-25, Alan <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni
>
>If you're looking for consistently good espresso, my advice is pass.
>
>I've had one for several years. Never could get consistent shots, and
>not for the lack of trying. To this day, I love their appearance and
>clean-up is a breeze, but they're just too eratic. I now have a pump
>machine and I'm a happy camper. I'm selling my LP ...cheap.
>
>nb
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 08:38:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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I can address item 3 directly.
I owned a EP for a short time. I only used it a few times. -- (is
there a common thread there?) I could not afford the time and wasted
coffee to develop to the skill level needed.
It has a lot of retro and traditional appeal, no doubt. and certainly
some people love them,
But:
1) The brew head gets too hot, and you must wait for it to cool.
2) It uses pressure to regulate temperature, and allows lots of
variation from nominal.
3) You must relieve all pressure b4 adding water.
4) Skin burns are a constant risk.
Technique and practice is vital -- other wise you may be VERY
disappointed.
Parts are easy to get and it is not hard to work on if you have a set
of snap ring pliers.
I would never own another, and will NOT work on them, for even if my
repair is perfect, I may be blamed for a bad outcome.
IMHO? AVOID, get yourself a nice NEW pump espresso machine, starting
at about $200.00
Saeco / Gaggia service SE
Alan wrote:
> I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni
> Europiccola at a pretty good price; but, before I do, I'd appreciate if
> anyone can answer a few questions for me:
> (1) Since there is no pump, it would appear that the pressure at which the
> water is forced thru the coffee is entirely dependent on the amount of force
> one uses in pulling down the lever --- is this correct?
> (1a) If this is correct, what is the maximum "bar" that can be
> achieved using this lever method? (Technical specifications
> indicate a boiler pressure of 0.7 - 0.8 bars, but this is, of course,
> independent of the pressure exerted thru lever use)
> (2) Does it operate just as well starting out with only a partially filled
> boiler? (I usually make only one or two cups at a time once a day, and it'd
> be a bit of pain to wait for a full boiler (one liter) to heat up.
> Additionally, (and this may not be rational) I don't like the idea of
> leaving water in the boiler to stagnate until the next time I use the
> machine)
> (3) What, if any, are the "down" sides of the Europiccola? (e.g. are certain
> parts notorious for breaking or wearing out quickly? Is it difficult to get
> parts? Are there any features in its design that are inherently
> troublesome?, etc
> Thanking you in advance for your answers and for your comments . . .
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 08:37:32
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:
>I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni
>Europiccola at a pretty good price;
>
It depends on the price whether it is a good deal or not. If it has
been sitting with water in it, or had not been cmpletely cleaned
before being put up for storage, there is a small chance that some of
the seals in the piston assembly might be damaged if the lever has
been operated a fw time in "testing" before haveing the piston removed
and cleaned. Not a prediction, just something to consider.
>...but, before I do, I'd appreciate if
>anyone can answer a few questions for me:
>(1) Since there is no pump, it would appear that the pressure at which the
>water is forced thru the coffee is entirely dependent on the amount of force
>one uses in pulling down the lever --- is this correct?
>
Yes.
> (1a) If this is correct, what is the maximum "bar" that can be
>achieved using this lever method? (Technical specifications
> indicate a boiler pressure of 0.7 - 0.8 bars, but this is, of course,
> independent of the pressure exerted thru lever use)
>
Boiler pressure relates to the temperature of the water. Brew force is
regulated by the lever action.
>(2) Does it operate just as well starting out with only a partially filled
>boiler? (I usually make only one or two cups at a time once a day, and it'd
>be a bit of pain to wait for a full boiler (one liter) to heat up.
>Additionally, (and this may not be rational) I don't like the idea of
>leaving water in the boiler to stagnate until the next time I use the
>machine)
>
The vast majority of home espresso machines (with the exception of the
steam-powered machines) leaves a full boiler when in storage, and all
that I have seen do not allow the emptying of teh boiler without at of
hassle, and in some cases it requires disassembly of some parts. In
other words, it isn't done. If it sits for a long period unused, just
refill it and flush water through to clean out the system. At around
205 degrees, not much can live in there.
>(3) What, if any, are the "down" sides of the Europiccola? (e.g. are certain
>parts notorious for breaking or wearing out quickly? Is it difficult to get
>parts? Are there any features in its design that are inherently
>troublesome?, etc
>
For multiple shots they do have a tendency to overheat (brew at too
hot of a temperaute. If you use the google groups search for LP, La
Pavoni, La Pavoni leverl machine, and such you should find a lot of
helpful info from the past:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.coffee
>Thanking you in advance for your answers and for your comments . . .
>
Not much help in this one, but doing what I can....
Randy "my MD has one" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:07:14
From: Alan
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:e0bt921unqg3v3u2rqhfnedgvnh3q1baao@4ax.com...
> "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni
>>Europiccola at a pretty good price;
>>
> It depends on the price whether it is a good deal or not. If it has
> been sitting with water in it, or had not been cmpletely cleaned
> before being put up for storage, there is a small chance that some of
> the seals in the piston assembly might be damaged if the lever has
> been operated a fw time in "testing" before haveing the piston removed
> and cleaned. Not a prediction, just something to consider.
>
>>...but, before I do, I'd appreciate if
>>anyone can answer a few questions for me:
>>(1) Since there is no pump, it would appear that the pressure at which
>>the
>>water is forced thru the coffee is entirely dependent on the amount of
>>force
>>one uses in pulling down the lever --- is this correct?
>>
> Yes.
>
>> (1a) If this is correct, what is the maximum "bar" that can be
>>achieved using this lever method? (Technical specifications
>> indicate a boiler pressure of 0.7 - 0.8 bars, but this is, of course,
>> independent of the pressure exerted thru lever use)
>>
> Boiler pressure relates to the temperature of the water. Brew force is
> regulated by the lever action.
But what would be the maximum pressure attainable by the lever action?
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 10:48:14
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
>But what would be the maximum pressure attainable by the lever action?
>
More than enough to make espresso- probably far more. What the maximum
pressue attained would depend on the force applied by the user, the
quality of the seals, etc. I don't think that the LP has any sort of
pressure regulation built into the brewing group.
I might pay $25 for a used one as a display piece to add to the
'museum,' but from all I have read, if I were asked by someone who was
serious about good, consistant quality espresso, I would not recommend
one.
If the price is right, you could use it for a bit, clean it up,
replace the seals if necessary, and sell it on eBay... Or if you liked
it, keep it.
ABOUT how much are they asking...? If it is a friend, ask if you can
borrow it to try it out.
If they're not a friend, write a bad check. ;-) <---
Randy "note smiley" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 19:46:12
From:
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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In alt.coffee, Randy G. <frcn@despammocncnet.com > wrote:
> I might pay $25 for a used one as a display piece to add to the
> 'museum,'
That's what I paid for mine, at a garage sale. The seller, and old
Italian woman, had lots of cool coffee stuff for sale. She and her
deceased husband used to bring stuff over for friends on their trips to
Italy, and she lots of moka posts and stuff left over. The La Pavoni had
been used daily by the husband until he died.
I still use it.
--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 19:48:13
From: anthony
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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I've been using a La Pavoni Professional (similar to the Europiccolo
but maybe a bigger boiler and a pressure-gauge) for about two months
now. Got it secondhand in great condition for around $170 US here in
Australia, and now I wouldn't part with it.
It's fiddly if you want to make several coffees at once, but I pull
great coffees (one espresso for myself and a latte for my wife) at
least three or four times a day with it. I found it takes only a couple
of days to get used to it .. and the pressure produced by the lever is
easily regulated by just varying degree of grind and tamping -- each
time I roast a new coffee blend, the optimum grind/tamp proportion
alters slightly.
It's very hands-on and is all the better for that. I love it. I'm
buying an ECM Botticelli pretty soon (got a good deal where it's
costing me the same as a Silvia, and my wife much prefers the look of
the ECM unit) but that won't stop me using my Pavoni.
It comes down to users either loving or loathing them. They make a
beautiful concentrated-flavour espresso, ristretto or latte, with great
natural crema; steam is instantly abundant, and the only drawback is
that the group-head can become over-hot if you don't switch the unit
off between shots -- though that can be easily managed too by just
turning the unit off between shots and dropping an icy-wet sponge cloth
over the group head.
As other respondees have noted, your burr-grinder is all-important. But
if you have that sorted, you are well on the way to having a great
Chrome Peackock love-affair.
Cheers, Anthony
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 16:07:31
From: daveb
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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the output is not worth the $25.
Dave "fytd6bdb5cfy" b
877 286 2833
opinions worth the price charged
KBuzbee wrote:
> martyminor11@yahoo.com wrote:
> > They are costly to maintain, y have a tendency to overheat.
> >
> > Marty
>
> How so?? $25 gaskets??
>
> Ken
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 15:22:34
From: KBuzbee
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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martyminor11@yahoo.com wrote:
> They are costly to maintain, y have a tendency to overheat.
>
> Marty
How so?? $25 gaskets??
Ken
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 14:51:40
From:
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
|
Alan wrote:
> I've got the opportunity to buy a two year-old (used 3-4 times) La Pavoni...
...snip...
> Thanking you in advance for your answers and for your comments . . .
Alan,
If you can get it for a really good price, my suggestion is just buy
it, shine it up real good, and just use it as a conversation piece.
They are real temperamental, and the learning curve to pull a great
shot is pretty steep. They are costly to maintain, and Randy "I gave
myself 3rd Degree Burns over 99% of my Body with a Lever Pull Pavoni"
G. is correct in stating that they have a tendency to overheat.
Marty
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 12:20:31
From: KBuzbee
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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I have a Europiccola. I love it! I use it every day. It does take a bit
more skill to pull a great shot but, contrary to many others here, once
you get the skills the pulls are rich and thick and very consistent.
The real joy (beside the espresso itself) is the process is totally
dependant on 'you'.
It's not for the "I want to push a button and get a coffee" crowd but
if you like the craft of creating something really special, you'll be
seduced by it's charms. (and if you do, visit home-barista lever
forum... lot's of good advice there) AND the La Pavoni will make WAY
better espresso than a $200 machine. Better than a $1,000 in my
experience.
The other points you got were right, it is easy to empty (I empty mine
every day and fill it fresh in the morning). It can overheat if you are
making more than 3-4 shots. It has plenty of pressure. 40 pounds on the
lever is often quoted. Reality is it depends so much on your grind,
your tamp etc....
One thing NOT mentioned... it is VERY easy to service yourself.
Honestly can't think of anything you couldn't do yourself. That's a
plus to me. Don't think I'd want to tear apart a La Marzocco....
On e last caveat - you need a really good (read consistent & stepless)
grinder. That doesn't necessary mean expensive. I use a Zass 175M (the
turkish mill) ~$90 - if you can find one.
Ken
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:14:36
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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Quoth "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com >:
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 00:11:01
From: wff_ng_7
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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"Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com > wrote:
> Yes. As for the difficulties of emptying a boiler, as you can probably
> could tell from looking at the picture, it's a simple matter of taking
> the filler cap off and inverting the machine to pour the water out, and
> it may be a good idea to do that once in a while on general principle.
There is actually a much easier way of draining it. I just got myself a
length of that soft clear nylon hose (1/4 inch, 1/8 inch?) and syphon the
water out into a pitcher on the floor. A lot easier than flipping the unit
over. I only flip it over if I want to get every last drop out.
--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 06:00:12
From: KBuzbee
Subject: Re: Europiccola - please?
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I'd like to make you a shot Dave.... Change your mind on the LaPa it
would. $2,000 pumps may do as well but $200 pumps do not.
Ken
daveb wrote:
> << You have nothing to lose..... >>
>
> makes a great display item, but make the coffee with a pump machine.
>
> my $.03
>
> dave
>
>
>
>
> anthony wrote:
> > daveb wrote:
> > > the output is not worth the $25.
> > >
> >
> > If you have the chance to buy relatively cheaply, go for it ... you can
> > always sell it on if you find yourself dissatisfied .. and chances are
> > that, like lots of us, you'll really relish the Pavoni experience. You
> > have nothing to lose.....
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 04:30:01
From: daveb
Subject: Europiccola - please?
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<< You have nothing to lose..... >>
makes a great display item, but make the coffee with a pump machine.
my $.03
dave
anthony wrote:
> daveb wrote:
> > the output is not worth the $25.
> >
>
> If you have the chance to buy relatively cheaply, go for it ... you can
> always sell it on if you find yourself dissatisfied .. and chances are
> that, like lots of us, you'll really relish the Pavoni experience. You
> have nothing to lose.....
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 22:29:43
From: anthony
Subject: Re: La Pavoni Europiccola --- opinions, please?
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daveb wrote:
> the output is not worth the $25.
>
If you have the chance to buy relatively cheaply, go for it ... you can
always sell it on if you find yourself dissatisfied .. and chances are
that, like lots of us, you'll really relish the Pavoni experience. You
have nothing to lose.....
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 18:50:50
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Europiccola - please?
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KBuzbee wrote:
> I'd like to make you a shot Dave.... Change your mind on the LaPa it
> would. $2,000 pumps may do as well but $200 pumps do not.
>
Good point, KBuzbee .... my approx $170 US for a Pavoni Professional
was certainly well-spent -- hate to think of what sort of junk I would
have bought in a pump machine for that money.
If you are going to step up from that level, then grab the Pavoni and
enjoy great coffee while you save for a Silvia or ECM Botticelli......
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 02:36:30
From: Brian Colwell
Subject: Re: Europiccola - please?
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"anthony" <anthonyjhcnospam@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:1151373050.517664.163490@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> KBuzbee wrote:
>> I'd like to make you a shot Dave.... Change your mind on the LaPa it
>> would. $2,000 pumps may do as well but $200 pumps do not.
>>
> Good point, KBuzbee .... my approx $170 US for a Pavoni Professional
> was certainly well-spent -- hate to think of what sort of junk I would
> have bought in a pump machine for that money.
> If you are going to step up from that level, then grab the Pavoni and
> enjoy great coffee while you save for a Silvia or ECM Botticelli......
>
Wish you guys would quit talking about your bargains, I paid about four
times as much :-(( ....Joking aside I have a Silvia and recently acquired a
La Pravoni pro,
The first couple days the stuff I was producing was pretty rank ! But since
then I am producing some pretty good shots on a consistence basis and I have
to admit it has improved my espresso making skills, even the shots I am
getting from my silvia are better !
BMC
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