| |
Main
Date: 28 Aug 2006 06:28:03
From: Anthony Altieri
Subject: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Not me, just throwing it out there...
http://bensbargains.net/deal/3819/
|
|
| |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 09:34:34
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Usually any home machine that has a thermoblock sucks badly. It doesn't
have to be that way, but in practice it is.
"Anthony Altieri" <altieri@optonline.net > wrote in message
news:1156771682.986420.156330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Not me, just throwing it out there...
>
> http://bensbargains.net/deal/3819/
>
|
| | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:52:01
From: Tom
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
OK, I'm confused!!! What exactly is a 'thermoblock' and what are the better
alternatives to heating the water??? What machines have this better system?
Tom
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:nYSdnSJ_XbdzbW_ZnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com...
> Usually any home machine that has a thermoblock sucks badly. It doesn't
> have to be that way, but in practice it is.
>
>
> "Anthony Altieri" <altieri@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1156771682.986420.156330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Not me, just throwing it out there...
>>
>> http://bensbargains.net/deal/3819/
>>
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:22:40
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Visit www.coffeegeek.com for lots more info.
A thermoblock is a block of metal made hot by an electric heating element,
with a convoluted passage thru which water flows - cold water is pumped in
one end and emerges as hot water. To make steam you pulse the pump on and
off to force just a dropful of water at a time into the block, which
flashes to steam. The selector knob on the front of the machine redirects
the output of the block from the brew head to the steam wand. Any machine
with a rotary selector knob front and center is a thermoblock.
The alternative is a boiler - a small vessel that preheats at least enough
water to complete a shot - that way you don't have to heat the water "on the
fly" during the brief period the pump is running. In steam mode the boiler
is heated even more and fills with steam. An example of such a good but
relatively inexpensive boiler machine would be a Gaggia Espresso.
"Tom" <tjwitman@bellsouth.net > wrote in message
news:uPHIg.1682$ry2.1065@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> OK, I'm confused!!! What exactly is a 'thermoblock' and what are the
> better alternatives to heating the water??? What machines have this
> better system?
>
> Tom
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 17:19:11
From: Tom
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Great explanation, Jack. Thanks a lot. That makes sense. I found this
site which explains it very well, too.
http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-stuff.html
I wonder how many of the manufacturers take the liberty to call their
thermoblock a 'boiler'. I guess you don't know for sure until you open it
up. :o) That goes for the semi-automatics also.
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:ReCdnQa5h5EMzW7ZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Visit www.coffeegeek.com for lots more info.
>
> A thermoblock is a block of metal made hot by an electric heating element,
> with a convoluted passage thru which water flows - cold water is pumped in
> one end and emerges as hot water. To make steam you pulse the pump on and
> off to force just a dropful of water at a time into the block, which
> flashes to steam. The selector knob on the front of the machine redirects
> the output of the block from the brew head to the steam wand. Any machine
> with a rotary selector knob front and center is a thermoblock.
>
> The alternative is a boiler - a small vessel that preheats at least enough
> water to complete a shot - that way you don't have to heat the water "on
> the fly" during the brief period the pump is running. In steam mode the
> boiler is heated even more and fills with steam. An example of such a
> good but relatively inexpensive boiler machine would be a Gaggia Espresso.
>
>
>
> "Tom" <tjwitman@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:uPHIg.1682$ry2.1065@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>> OK, I'm confused!!! What exactly is a 'thermoblock' and what are the
>> better alternatives to heating the water??? What machines have this
>> better system?
>>
>> Tom
>
>
|
| | | | | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 22:02:02
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:19:11 -0400, "Tom" <tjwitman@bellsouth.net >
wrote:
>Great explanation, Jack. Thanks a lot. That makes sense. I found this
>site which explains it very well, too.
>http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-stuff.html
>
>I wonder how many of the manufacturers take the liberty to call their
>thermoblock a 'boiler'. I guess you don't know for sure until you open it
>up. :o) That goes for the semi-automatics also.
I recall when I had a Krups machine, the box and manual proudly touted
the thermoblock as a "feature."
Marshall
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 18:06:45
From: Tom
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Yea, when I was looking at machines today, I saw that same thing for several
of them. It's all about 'salesmanship'. I was glad to see my Saeco has a
boiler. ;o)
"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:1tp6f25bqslsm3frh8u30njscuj2hgil37@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:19:11 -0400, "Tom" <tjwitman@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Great explanation, Jack. Thanks a lot. That makes sense. I found this
>>site which explains it very well, too.
>>http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-stuff.html
>>
>>I wonder how many of the manufacturers take the liberty to call their
>>thermoblock a 'boiler'. I guess you don't know for sure until you open it
>>up. :o) That goes for the semi-automatics also.
>
> I recall when I had a Krups machine, the box and manual proudly touted
> the thermoblock as a "feature."
>
> Marshall
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:09:45
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Take a look at Gaggia at many different sites. All use a real boiler
and many are very price competitive with the less quality thermoblock
machines.
Here's one place: http://www.wholelattelove.com/
There are many others.
Lloyd
> OK, I'm confused!!! What exactly is a 'thermoblock' and what are the better
> alternatives to heating the water??? What machines have this better system?
>
> Tom
>
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:nYSdnSJ_XbdzbW_ZnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Usually any home machine that has a thermoblock sucks badly. It doesn't
> > have to be that way, but in practice it is.
> >
> >
> > "Anthony Altieri" <altieri@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > news:1156771682.986420.156330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> Not me, just throwing it out there...
> >>
> >> http://bensbargains.net/deal/3819/
> >>
> >
> >
|
| |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 20:31:13
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Jack Denver wrote:
> Delonghi describes it as a boiler. Keep in mind that a "boiler" doesn't have
> to be big enough to run a locomotive - I had a Saeco that had a boiler that
> was around the size of a hockey puck (maybe 60 cc capacity) , but it was a
> boiler not a block. Made pretty good coffee, too.
That's what I had in mind - boiler must be bigger (and fit in a ship's
hold, right). Design factor based or heating element characteristics,
then. I wouldn't know (other than seeing Saeco on the "prefered"
lists) - not being up to an epicurean's taste for coffee. Just drank
enough to lately appreciate stumbling into a purer form these machines
offer. I could assume proximity to Italian culinary boundaries, if
defing pressure solely to process coffee bean oils A good cup,
refining methods and equipment to meet optimal standards, I had no idea
Italians were so devoted or had been at as long as they have. Seeing a
few Swiss or Italian spring leverwork drawn machines convinced me of
that.
|
| |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:16:49
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Jack Denver wrote:
> Visit www.coffeegeek.com for lots more info.
>
> A thermoblock is a block of metal made hot by an electric heating element,
> with a convoluted passage thru which water flows - cold water is pumped in
> one end and emerges as hot water. To make steam you pulse the pump on and
> off to force just a dropful of water at a time into the block, which
> flashes to steam. The selector knob on the front of the machine redirects
> the output of the block from the brew head to the steam wand. Any machine
> with a rotary selector knob front and center is a thermoblock.
>
> The alternative is a boiler - a small vessel that preheats at least enough
> water to complete a shot - that way you don't have to heat the water "on the
> fly" during the brief period the pump is running. In steam mode the boiler
> is heated even more and fills with steam. An example of such a good but
> relatively inexpensive boiler machine would be a Gaggia Espresso.
Makes me wonder. Thought it a thermoblock, looks like a thermoblock
after I took it apart to fix broken water hose and do a wand
modification (going to cut a fixed tamper extension for a barbermug
shaving brush and JB Weld both into a tamp) - though Delonghi is
calling it a boiler from the WLL site description. The "pulse steam"
method you've given definately isn't thermoblock. No dribbling pulses
to it *initially* (never mess beyond that - adequate to do latte).
Somebody else here was describing how they're run, and I've been
(basically) following that. a) Turn on and run the pump and water out
through open steam. Sort of a prime. b) Off pump, close steam
pressure valve and heat. Wait and froth. c) Run pump same as first.
Wait again running broiler/thermoblock up to temp on second thermostat.
(I preinfuse sometimes here). Lite's now up to temp, run pump thru PF.
Done. -- I added to again briefly run water through bare showerhead
to clean, and once again through removable bottomed PF cup (cpu grind
holder, Delonghi's(c) cup's a bottom crema enhancement contraption and
takes a little pressure). Pick and turn upside the whole contraption
over the sink to dump any resevoir water, wrap the cord around and set
back to kitchen counter wall until next time. Bought a supermarket
plastic bottle of natural lime concentrate for future capful diluted
descaling.
Ten minute runtime operation.
Double shots and not getting into reheat recycling. Also not
inordinate on heatup wait times. Some redish coloration to recent
mailorder Costa Rican preroast - trace red on less blond PF resulting
froath. Stronger stuff I suspect may be higher caffenine
concentration, but seems smooth and adequately fragrant whne drinking
straight (sip foam off to drink unmixed shots floating suspended above
a lower layer of milk) . Ebay $60US item.
http://www.wholelattelove.com/DeLonghi/bar32.cfm
|
| | |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 20:41:23
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Delonghi describes it as a boiler. Keep in mind that a "boiler" doesn't have
to be big enough to run a locomotive - I had a Saeco that had a boiler that
was around the size of a hockey puck (maybe 60 cc capacity) , but it was a
boiler not a block. Made pretty good coffee, too.
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote in message
news:1156807009.253532.161190@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Jack Denver wrote:
>> Visit www.coffeegeek.com for lots more info.
>>
>> A thermoblock is a block of metal made hot by an electric heating
>> element,
>> with a convoluted passage thru which water flows - cold water is pumped
>> in
>> one end and emerges as hot water. To make steam you pulse the pump on and
>> off to force just a dropful of water at a time into the block, which
>> flashes to steam. The selector knob on the front of the machine redirects
>> the output of the block from the brew head to the steam wand. Any machine
>> with a rotary selector knob front and center is a thermoblock.
>>
>> The alternative is a boiler - a small vessel that preheats at least
>> enough
>> water to complete a shot - that way you don't have to heat the water "on
>> the
>> fly" during the brief period the pump is running. In steam mode the
>> boiler
>> is heated even more and fills with steam. An example of such a good but
>> relatively inexpensive boiler machine would be a Gaggia Espresso.
>
> Makes me wonder. Thought it a thermoblock, looks like a thermoblock
> after I took it apart to fix broken water hose and do a wand
> modification (going to cut a fixed tamper extension for a barbermug
> shaving brush and JB Weld both into a tamp) - though Delonghi is
> calling it a boiler from the WLL site description. The "pulse steam"
> method you've given definately isn't thermoblock. No dribbling pulses
> to it *initially* (never mess beyond that - adequate to do latte).
> Somebody else here was describing how they're run, and I've been
> (basically) following that. a) Turn on and run the pump and water out
> through open steam. Sort of a prime. b) Off pump, close steam
> pressure valve and heat. Wait and froth. c) Run pump same as first.
> Wait again running broiler/thermoblock up to temp on second thermostat.
> (I preinfuse sometimes here). Lite's now up to temp, run pump thru PF.
> Done. -- I added to again briefly run water through bare showerhead
> to clean, and once again through removable bottomed PF cup (cpu grind
> holder, Delonghi's(c) cup's a bottom crema enhancement contraption and
> takes a little pressure). Pick and turn upside the whole contraption
> over the sink to dump any resevoir water, wrap the cord around and set
> back to kitchen counter wall until next time. Bought a supermarket
> plastic bottle of natural lime concentrate for future capful diluted
> descaling.
>
> Ten minute runtime operation.
>
> Double shots and not getting into reheat recycling. Also not
> inordinate on heatup wait times. Some redish coloration to recent
> mailorder Costa Rican preroast - trace red on less blond PF resulting
> froath. Stronger stuff I suspect may be higher caffenine
> concentration, but seems smooth and adequately fragrant whne drinking
> straight (sip foam off to drink unmixed shots floating suspended above
> a lower layer of milk) . Ebay $60US item.
>
> http://www.wholelattelove.com/DeLonghi/bar32.cfm
>
|
| | |
Date: 30 Aug 2006 18:56:12
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote in message
news:1156807009.253532.161190@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Makes me wonder. (snip)
>The "pulse steam"
> method you've given definately isn't thermoblock. (snip again)
Oh yes it is. My old thermoblock machine worked that way, the description
given was accurate. The (basic) electronics do the pulsing for you.
The steam produced is more 'wet' than is desirable; furthermore, one needs
to wait a while- with water spurting out initially- until the thermoblock
reaches 'steaming' temperature from brewing temp.Can be as much as 30 sec.,
so you need to put a jug underneath to catch the slops until you are geting
mostly steam. Then turn off, put milk under, & turn steam on again.
BTW Flasherly, how many shots have you had today?
--
"I won't go into binary counting here. For further information you can
search the Internet, or cut off all but one of your fingers."
-Roger Nichols
|
| |
Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:01:45
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
Tom wrote:
> Yea, when I was looking at machines today, I saw that same thing for several
Both my machines (Pavoni Pro and ECM Botticelli) have boilers, and I
guess my Atomic stove-top could be said to have a boiler.
But while most cheap machines use thermoblocks, isn't the problem with
thermoblocks more to do with the materials used and their proneness to
corrosion rather than their method, along with generally cheap
construction? I believe that here in Australia there is at least one
thermoblock machine, made by Sunbeam, which is quite well thought of,
which uses stainless-steel capillaries within the block, and which
presumably should avoid the corrosion hazard.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Aug 2006 18:48:02
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: Never heard of it: OK-so-so starter machine for someone?
|
"anthony" <anthonyjhcnospam@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:1156806105.655275.72660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Tom wrote:
>> Yea, when I was looking at machines today, I saw that same thing for
>> several
>
>
> Both my machines (Pavoni Pro and ECM Botticelli) have boilers, and I
> guess my Atomic stove-top could be said to have a boiler.
> But while most cheap machines use thermoblocks, isn't the problem with
> thermoblocks more to do with the materials used and their proneness to
> corrosion rather than their method, along with generally cheap
> construction? I believe that here in Australia there is at least one
> thermoblock machine, made by Sunbeam, which is quite well thought of,
> which uses stainless-steel capillaries within the block, and which
> presumably should avoid the corrosion hazard.
>
That Sunbeam- the EM6900- isn't too bad. Full-size (but not
industry-standard-compatible) group head.
There's a good review here:
http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/sunbeam.html
Interestingly, the machine mentioned at the start of this thread is sold
here in Australia under the Sunbeam label; they have it made in China. I'm
pretty sure that Sunbeam Australia designed it and rebadged as an Ariete for
sale in the US of A & elsewhere; someone sure did anyway!
I had a Sunbeam with a different casing, but otherwise identical to the
Ariete.
I don't believe that the thermoblock is the problem. What I believe lets the
machine down is that the group head collar is made of plastic, and thus
doesn't transfer heat to the group handle- which is only light alloy anyway.
Additionally, I had to replace the collar after it split apart after a
couple of years, but in its defence it was used constantly.
Is it an OK starter machine? Probably. Much less to go wrong in making an
average shot- but that's all you'll ever get out of it.
I replaced mine with a secondhand Gaggia Evolution, which with a large,
heavy chromed brass group handle and proper heat transfer to it has been a
revelation- by paying attention to a few things, I can get great shots with
it.
--
"I won't go into binary counting here. For further information you can
search the Internet, or cut off all but one of your fingers."
-Roger Nichols
|
| |
Date: 29 Aug 2006 04:10:22
From: daveb
Subject: OK starter machine for someone
|
Hell yes, why not?
dave
Anthony Altieri wrote:
> Not me, just throwing it out there...
>
> http://bensbargains.net/deal/3819/
|
|
