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Date: 07 Jun 2006 07:31:06
From: brett
Subject: No frothing: Part duex
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If the steam wand is submerged in milk but you still get some very loud
screaming, how is it able to suck any air? Where is it getting the air
from?
Thanks,
Brett
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 10:01:54
From: Karl
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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> seems) with water. But with milk, after 45 seconds (sometimes sooner),
> it starts boiling/churning and shaking the pitcher.
Sounds like you're boiling the milk. You need to stop at about 150
degrees; when the thermometer catches up you should be at 160, which is
often said to be optimal. If you reach boiling, it's way too hot.
Are you using a thermometer?
Karl
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 09:05:28
From: brett
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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Thanks Ben. I hate to open this aweful can of worms again but I've
already followed those directions:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/browse_thread/thread/6f0c5073ff496d47.
I get between 45 seconds and a minute before everything crashes. I've
read many directions on making micro froth and they are pretty much as
you described. I get the feeling something must be wrong with my
machine (Silvia).
Then again, this doesn't happen with water. I can steam all day (it
seems) with water. But with milk, after 45 seconds (sometimes sooner),
it starts boiling/churning and shaking the pitcher. I have no choice
but to stop because big chucks (not spatters) of milk are rising up out
of the pitcher and overflowing. It's a strong steady stream of steam
and doesn't look as though it would cause all of that. I guess until I
figure this out nothing will be useful.
I haven't actually timed everything but just counted in my head. The
pitcher seems to get very hot quick. To the point I can touch it.
What is the amount of time it should take a pitcher to reach a
temperature that you can no longer touch it (at full steam)?
Thanks,
Brett
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 17:17:21
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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On 7 Jun 2006 09:05:28 -0700, "brett" <account@cygen.com > wrote:
>Then again, this doesn't happen with water. I can steam all day (it
>seems) with water. But with milk, after 45 seconds (sometimes sooner),
>it starts boiling/churning and shaking the pitcher.
that is boiling the milk. you've overdone it.
my guess is you're putting the wand in too deep, initially, and not
resurfacing for air, and then going too long. if you get the milk too
hot, then all the foam will collapse (whatever you might have managed
to create), and you'll be left with flat stinky milk.
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 10:36:20
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
>On 7 Jun 2006 09:05:28 -0700, "brett" <account@cygen.com> wrote:
>
> >Then again, this doesn't happen with water. I can steam all day (it
> >seems) with water. But with milk, after 45 seconds (sometimes sooner),
> >it starts boiling/churning and shaking the pitcher.
>
>that is boiling the milk. you've overdone it.
>
>my guess is you're putting the wand in too deep, initially, and not
>resurfacing for air, and then going too long. if you get the milk too
>hot, then all the foam will collapse (whatever you might have managed
>to create), and you'll be left with flat stinky milk.
>
Yup.. As Alan stated earlier, it is a technique problem. i will try
again- Brett, you need to get someone to show you how to do it right.
Go to a coffee shop when they are not busy and talk it up with the
barrista. Find one willing to spend some time to show you how and/or
let you try. You might also try a different milk as some "economy"
grades/brands of milk are very difficult or impossible to stretch
well.
Randy "mail order micro-foam" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 08:40:14
From: BenB
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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Ken Fox wrote:
> "Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com> wrote in message
> news:0upd82lgbtvlsmkp4cfnptgstkp7n6gnm8@4ax.com...
> > On 7 Jun 2006 07:31:06 -0700, "brett" <account@cygen.com> wrote:
> >
> > >If the steam wand is submerged in milk but you still get some very loud
> > >screaming, how is it able to suck any air? Where is it getting the air
> > >from?
> >
> >
> > it doesn't and isn't. you have the wand too far into the pitcher and
> > the steam is screaming against the bottom. you might not have opened
> > the steam valve all the way, either, as that will make a bad scream,
> > too.
>
> Is it like this?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5q7d5
hehehe :-) love the understatement Ken.
I'm entirely sure of the scientific reason behind the screaming but it
will occur when you haven't injected any air into the milk:
-Before turning the steam on, submerge the tip just under the surface
of the milk (so it doesn't blow up in your face when you turn it on).
-Turn the steam on full.
-Lower the jug until the steam tip is just on the surface and you hear
the distinctive 'tch tch tch' sound.
-Keep inching the jug lower as your volume of milk increases as you
create more foam: make sure this movement is as gentle as possible to
inject only small bubles, resulting in dense, silky microfoam.
-Once you either have enough foam in the jug for the drink/s you're
creating or the jug is getting a bit too warm to hold, raise the jug up
so that the steam tip is submerged again (it only needs to be under a
little to stop injecting air).
-Position the jug to try and get a whirlpool motion going and keep
heating the milk until you reach 60 - 65C (around about the point where
you can't keep your hand on the side of the jug because it is so hot
but a milk thermometer is useful).
-Turn of the steam.
-Wipe the steam wand and purge.
Hope that helps and my appologies if I'm repeating things you already
know :-)
Cheers,
Ben
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 08:18:25
From: brett
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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> it doesn't and isn't. you have the wand too far into the pitcher and
> the steam is screaming against the bottom. you might not have opened
> the steam valve all the way, either, as that will make a bad scream,
> too.
I've moved the wand vertically to several positions and still get the
screaming. The steam is always open full.
Brett
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 14:51:37
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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On 7 Jun 2006 07:31:06 -0700, "brett" <account@cygen.com > wrote:
>If the steam wand is submerged in milk but you still get some very loud
>screaming, how is it able to suck any air? Where is it getting the air
>from?
it doesn't and isn't. you have the wand too far into the pitcher and
the steam is screaming against the bottom. you might not have opened
the steam valve all the way, either, as that will make a bad scream,
too.
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 09:21:39
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:0upd82lgbtvlsmkp4cfnptgstkp7n6gnm8@4ax.com...
> On 7 Jun 2006 07:31:06 -0700, "brett" <account@cygen.com> wrote:
>
> >If the steam wand is submerged in milk but you still get some very loud
> >screaming, how is it able to suck any air? Where is it getting the air
> >from?
>
>
> it doesn't and isn't. you have the wand too far into the pitcher and
> the steam is screaming against the bottom. you might not have opened
> the steam valve all the way, either, as that will make a bad scream,
> too.
Is it like this?
http://tinyurl.com/5q7d5
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 14:08:13
From: North Sullivan
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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On 7 Jun 2006 07:31:06 -0700, "brett" <account@cygen.com > wrote:
>If the steam wand is submerged in milk but you still get some very loud
>screaming, how is it able to suck any air? Where is it getting the air
>from?
>
>Thanks,
>Brett
We call that the train sound in my shop, and that sound is forbidden,
unless a customer has requested "extra hot." That sound occurs just
before the milk begins to boil.
Milk is easiest to stretch in the beginning when it's very cold. Dip
the wand just under the surface and make small movements up or down
until you hear the sound of ripping sheets. That's your sweet spot
and the sound of milk stretching. Move the wand down slowly to
maintain that sweet spot until you've stretched as much as you want.
Then, if needed, move the wand all the way to the bottom to simply
heat the milk to the temperature you desire.
How long this process takes depends upon how much milk is being
steamed and how much steam power your machine has. You'll get
better with practice.
North Sullivan
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 07:02:35
From: brett
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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No Froth: Part Fini
This morning I got lots of froth (filled the pitcher), no boiling and
no screaming. These last few posts did it. After verifying the milk
boiling, I understood what was going on. Now I can focus on micro
froth.
Thanks for having so much patience all. It's greatly appreciated. I
wonder if it is worth blogging or putting this on a website for
beginners that may come across the same thing? It seems like a very
rare incident.
Brett
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 07:14:53
From: Simpson
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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In article <1149775355.852176.139050@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com >,
account@cygen.com says...
snip
> Thanks for having so much patience all. It's greatly appreciated. I
> wonder if it is worth blogging or putting this on a website for
> beginners that may come across the same thing? It seems like a very
> rare incident.
>
> Brett
>
>
In the past everyone relied on thermometers, and a thermometer would
have told you right off that the milk was boiling. Nowadays people want
to rely on sound or touch to determine the right temp, and if you don't
already know what it is supposed to sound like or feel like, just how
are you to know? That is why I always tell people to start off with a
thermometer and give it up when they don't need it anymore.
Congratulations on your new steaming skills.
Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a
ess tee (dot) en ee tee
ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread, by accident, really.
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 21:33:21
From: Danny
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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Simpson wrote:
> In the past everyone relied on thermometers, and a thermometer would
> have told you right off that the milk was boiling. Nowadays people want
> to rely on sound or touch to determine the right temp, and if you don't
> already know what it is supposed to sound like or feel like, just how
> are you to know? That is why I always tell people to start off with a
> thermometer and give it up when they don't need it anymore.
I still do. When there are 3 or 4 people steaming at different times,
you need consistency of product. One persons' burning hand is
another's pleasure, and people don't always judge the deepening rumble
the same. I use a thermometer and dictate the temp to be steamed to.
We have a few customers who always ask for the milk hotter (and
that's asking for something when we steam to 160 anyway), so knowing
what temp the milk will scald and to stop before then is a help.
--
Regards,
Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.dannyscoffee.com (UK advert for my mobile espresso service)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/European online ordering for Malabar
Gold blend)
swap Z for above characters in email address to reply
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 17:43:58
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 20:45:55
From: Danny
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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D. Ross wrote:
>
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 19:32:40
From: BenB
Subject: Re: No frothing: Part duex
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The problem I have is finding a thermometer that's actually accurate
and doesn't have too much lag in its rise in temp.
Danny wrote:
> D. Ross wrote:
> >
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