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Main
Date: 06 Jun 2006 19:47:03
From: Paul Pratt
Subject: OT - greedy landlords
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Hi everyone,
The lease on my current office/workshop space is due to expire end of
august. A few of our neighbours moved out earlier this year and tipped
us off regarding escalating rents. It's not a grotty factory bldg. but
it is in the middle of nowhere and cannot be considered a prime factory
location. After 2 years the oh-so wonderful landlord is asking for a
65% increase in rent. My coffee bean sales are down approx 30%
compared with last year due to competition and a general poor economy.
Just last week one of my customers had to close their shop of 6 years.
It was originally my shop (opened in 2000) and was just a space a
landlord had - it required some imagination to turn it into a take-away
coffee bar but the residents of the bldg. loved it. The person that
bought the retail biz from me does a good job and although he has a
small chain he is still a small independant. He called me a few weeks
back to say that when he came to resign his lease, the landlord had
already put it out on the market and had received proposals from the
obvious coffee chains and had already accepted one of them. The irony
is that 6 years ago the larger chains had been approached and turned
the space down, now that the leg-work had been done it's a viable space
and they are all over it.
Since 1997 when Hong Kong was handed back to the Mainland the landlords
have dictated pretty much everything that goes on.
I have a few options of where to go in terms of a new unit - my
"bumper" accessories take up a lot of space and I need more space than
I have now anyway. The older factory units that once propelled HK
during the 60's and 70's into a manufacturing hub (garments, toys,
watches etc..) are so run down and grotty that they do have a certain
kind of charm but I'm not sure if I could stand working in such an
environment.
Anyway I'm off to look for some new premise.
Paul
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 22:21:54
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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"Paul Pratt" <paul@just-java.com > wrote in message
news:1149648423.898929.252220@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> The lease on my current office/workshop space is due to expire end of
> august. A few of our neighbours moved out earlier this year and tipped
> us off regarding escalating rents. It's not a grotty factory bldg. but
> it is in the middle of nowhere and cannot be considered a prime factory
> location. After 2 years the oh-so wonderful landlord is asking for a
> 65% increase in rent. >
> I have a few options of where to go in terms of a new unit - my
> "bumper" accessories take up a lot of space and I need more space than
> I have now anyway.
> Paul
>
Hi Paul,
Sorry I didn't make it to Charlotte but enjoyed meeting you in Seattle last
year. I'm enjoying my new Bumper Tamper and Knockbox.
ken
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 03:23:07
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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On 6 Jun 2006 19:47:03 -0700, "Paul Pratt" <paul@just-java.com > wrote:
>I have now anyway. The older factory units that once propelled HK
>during the 60's and 70's into a manufacturing hub (garments, toys,
>watches etc..) are so run down and grotty that they do have a certain
>kind of charm but I'm not sure if I could stand working in such an
>environment.
>
grotty is fun. cheap, too.
--barry "in an old lumber mill"
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 20:21:01
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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"Paul Pratt" <paul@just-java.com > wrote in message
news:1149648423.898929.252220@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>snip
> Anyway I'm off to look for some new premise.
>
> Paul
>
Good luck on the search Paul.
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 08:21:50
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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It takes two to tango - landlords can get the rents they are seeking only if
there are tenants willing to pay the rents being sought. So this is not
greed, just the market in action.
In order to protect yourself against future increases, you need to obtain,
if possible, either a longer initial term or preferably one or more
extension options at fixed increases. Or buy your own premises and become a
landlord yourself if you think it is such a lucrative business.
"Paul Pratt" <paul@just-java.com > wrote in message
news:1149648423.898929.252220@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> The lease on my current office/workshop space is due to expire end of
> august. A few of our neighbours moved out earlier this year and tipped
> us off regarding escalating rents. It's not a grotty factory bldg. but
> it is in the middle of nowhere and cannot be considered a prime factory
> location. After 2 years the oh-so wonderful landlord is asking for a
> 65% increase in rent. My coffee bean sales are down approx 30%
> compared with last year due to competition and a general poor economy.
>
> Just last week one of my customers had to close their shop of 6 years.
> It was originally my shop (opened in 2000) and was just a space a
> landlord had - it required some imagination to turn it into a take-away
> coffee bar but the residents of the bldg. loved it. The person that
> bought the retail biz from me does a good job and although he has a
> small chain he is still a small independant. He called me a few weeks
> back to say that when he came to resign his lease, the landlord had
> already put it out on the market and had received proposals from the
> obvious coffee chains and had already accepted one of them. The irony
> is that 6 years ago the larger chains had been approached and turned
> the space down, now that the leg-work had been done it's a viable space
> and they are all over it.
>
> Since 1997 when Hong Kong was handed back to the Mainland the landlords
> have dictated pretty much everything that goes on.
>
> I have a few options of where to go in terms of a new unit - my
> "bumper" accessories take up a lot of space and I need more space than
> I have now anyway. The older factory units that once propelled HK
> during the 60's and 70's into a manufacturing hub (garments, toys,
> watches etc..) are so run down and grotty that they do have a certain
> kind of charm but I'm not sure if I could stand working in such an
> environment.
>
> Anyway I'm off to look for some new premise.
>
> Paul
>
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 05:21:19
From: Phil Paintin
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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Paul Pratt wrote:
> Phil Paintin wrote:
>
> >
> > That's a suprise -- I'd have thought HK would be booming along with the
> > rest of the Chinese economy ?
>
> Well since the low of the asian economic crisis the statistics will
> agree with you - Hang Seng index is up and the all impt. property
> prices are up, albeit artificially manipulated by govt and property
> developers. Sales volumes of my customers have dropped over the past
> few years and a few have gone under. I wandered around a trendy rest
> and bar area the other day to see a customer and had never seen so many
> vacant shops since the economic crisis.
>
I guess the Ex-pat population of Westerners has reduced significantly
since the handback, and with them a lot of the trendy income. Do the
chinese consume much coffee?
> HK is still a special region and not the same as the mainland, to get
> machines into PRC I or my customers would have to pay an import duty.
> When I pay say a factory in PRC the banking systems are different and
> it`s wire transfer only and even then it`s a hell of a hassle.
>
So the chinese took on the exisiting infrastructure without imposing
their own and still treat it as a separate entity -- do they still
restrict movement across the border?
> Problem for HK is that all the manuf. has moved to PRC (apart from
> bumper tampers that is!) and with the opening up of PRC to the west the
> `stepping stone` advantage that HK enjoyed as the gateway into PRC has
> gone. You can look at websites such as www.alibaba.com and get a
> direct link to any factory you want.
Do you see yourself staying in HK ?
> The only kickback we get from PRC at the moment is all the smog and
> pollution from the factories accross the border - which is terrible.
>
Yeah, you can see the smog over SE Asia from space; not nice.
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 04:27:49
From: Paul Pratt
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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Phil Paintin wrote:
>
> That's a suprise -- I'd have thought HK would be booming along with the
> rest of the Chinese economy ?
Well since the low of the asian economic crisis the statistics will
agree with you - Hang Seng index is up and the all impt. property
prices are up, albeit artificially manipulated by govt and property
developers. Sales volumes of my customers have dropped over the past
few years and a few have gone under. I wandered around a trendy rest
and bar area the other day to see a customer and had never seen so many
vacant shops since the economic crisis.
HK is still a special region and not the same as the mainland, to get
machines into PRC I or my customers would have to pay an import duty.
When I pay say a factory in PRC the banking systems are different and
it`s wire transfer only and even then it`s a hell of a hassle.
Problem for HK is that all the manuf. has moved to PRC (apart from
bumper tampers that is!) and with the opening up of PRC to the west the
`stepping stone` advantage that HK enjoyed as the gateway into PRC has
gone. You can look at websites such as www.alibaba.com and get a
direct link to any factory you want.
The only kickback we get from PRC at the moment is all the smog and
pollution from the factories accross the border - which is terrible.
Paul
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 09:17:04
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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perhaps it's time to move? You'd be welcome over here!
ken
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 12:34:35
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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Business in HK (serious making & producing type business, that is) has
mostly migrated to the Chinese mainland. HK's advantage was always that it
was the controlled gateway to the Middle Kingdom, now it's just another
outpost.
--
Alan
alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 01:44:49
From: Phil Paintin
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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Paul Pratt wrote:
[snip]
> My coffee bean sales are down approx 30%
> compared with last year due to competition and a general poor economy.
>
That's a suprise -- I'd have thought HK would be booming along with the
rest of the Chinese economy ?
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 22:22:11
From:
Subject: Re: OT - greedy landlords
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Damn Paul, seems this is the summer year to move businesses. We just
move EPNW to a new building. We sold the old one and now have six times
more space. It is a dream come true for sure, but what a task. Our move
with EPNW was not dictated by a landlord, but simply the need for more
space. I could blame it all on Chris Tacy ( Malachi) But it is a good
thing overall.
But now for the bad news. I just found out that I will lose the lease
on my roaster at the end of July! Yep, I said July. That is only 60
days from now. I have been working with the air pollution control
folks, the gas utility, and generally trying to get things moving.
I was fortunate to save some space at the back of our new building for
future growth.....The future is now here I guess.
Good luck on finding a new spot and know that I'm hoping you find a
good one.
Cheers,
Terry Z
Paul Pratt wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> The lease on my current office/workshop space is due to expire end of
> august. A few of our neighbours moved out earlier this year and tipped
> us off regarding escalating rents. It's not a grotty factory bldg. but
> it is in the middle of nowhere and cannot be considered a prime factory
> location. After 2 years the oh-so wonderful landlord is asking for a
> 65% increase in rent. My coffee bean sales are down approx 30%
> compared with last year due to competition and a general poor economy.
>
> Just last week one of my customers had to close their shop of 6 years.
> It was originally my shop (opened in 2000) and was just a space a
> landlord had - it required some imagination to turn it into a take-away
> coffee bar but the residents of the bldg. loved it. The person that
> bought the retail biz from me does a good job and although he has a
> small chain he is still a small independant. He called me a few weeks
> back to say that when he came to resign his lease, the landlord had
> already put it out on the market and had received proposals from the
> obvious coffee chains and had already accepted one of them. The irony
> is that 6 years ago the larger chains had been approached and turned
> the space down, now that the leg-work had been done it's a viable space
> and they are all over it.
>
> Since 1997 when Hong Kong was handed back to the Mainland the landlords
> have dictated pretty much everything that goes on.
>
> I have a few options of where to go in terms of a new unit - my
> "bumper" accessories take up a lot of space and I need more space than
> I have now anyway. The older factory units that once propelled HK
> during the 60's and 70's into a manufacturing hub (garments, toys,
> watches etc..) are so run down and grotty that they do have a certain
> kind of charm but I'm not sure if I could stand working in such an
> environment.
>
> Anyway I'm off to look for some new premise.
>
> Paul
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