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Date: 07 Jun 2006 19:33:08
From: BenB
Subject: Purging steam wands on LM
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Hi All,
What's the general view out there about purging the steam wand of a
LaMarzocco before steaming? One of our local mechanics has recommended
not doing this as the super hot wand that you then dunk into your cold
milk syphons up the milk more. He says that he's having less service
issues concerning steaming pressure and dirtiness with those cafes that
don't flush out before steaming.
I know there's been many an argument about the affects of flushing out
condensation before steaming and how much it will affect the final
product but how does that weigh up against this maintenence issue?
Cheers,
Ben
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 22:15:13
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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I would say that this is not good advice.
If the machine has been idling a bit the steam condenses into water in
the wand and if you balst this into the milk it can shoot milk all
over. WHen you purge and shut off the steam, normally a small amount
of escaping steam will still be exiting the wand as you plunge it into
the milk. This will keep the milk from going up the wand if you
immediately start the steaming. At least that is my experience.
Randy "as limited as that may be" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
"BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>What's the general view out there about purging the steam wand of a
>LaMarzocco before steaming? One of our local mechanics has recommended
>not doing this as the super hot wand that you then dunk into your cold
>milk syphons up the milk more. He says that he's having less service
>issues concerning steaming pressure and dirtiness with those cafes that
>don't flush out before steaming.
>
>I know there's been many an argument about the affects of flushing out
>condensation before steaming and how much it will affect the final
>product but how does that weigh up against this maintenence issue?
>
>Cheers,
>Ben
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 23:39:49
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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"Randy G." wrote
>I would say that this is not good advice.
> If the machine has been idling a bit the steam condenses into water in
> the wand and if you balst this into the milk it can shoot milk all
> over. WHen you purge and shut off the steam, normally a small amount
> of escaping steam will still be exiting the wand as you plunge it into
> the milk. This will keep the milk from going up the wand if you
> immediately start the steaming. At least that is my experience.
>
> Randy "as limited as that may be" G.
In any case, I'd always thought that the proper way to introduce the wand
(after having purged it of any condensation), was to open the valve just a
bit before submerging it into the milk in order to ensure that milk wouldn't
work its way up the wand. Likewise, don't turn off the steam valve
completely until it has fully exited the milk. The trick, of course, (though
easily mastered) is gauging just the right amount of steam so you don't
splash all over when entering or exiting the milk.
Alan
>
>
> "BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>What's the general view out there about purging the steam wand of a
>>LaMarzocco before steaming? One of our local mechanics has recommended
>>not doing this as the super hot wand that you then dunk into your cold
>>milk syphons up the milk more. He says that he's having less service
>>issues concerning steaming pressure and dirtiness with those cafes that
>>don't flush out before steaming.
>>
>>I know there's been many an argument about the affects of flushing out
>>condensation before steaming and how much it will affect the final
>>product but how does that weigh up against this maintenence issue?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Ben
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 17:34:50
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
>In any case, I'd always thought that the proper way to introduce the wand
>(after having purged it of any condensation), was to open the valve just a
>bit before submerging it into the milk in order to ensure that milk wouldn't
>work its way up the wand. Likewise, don't turn off the steam valve
>completely until it has fully exited the milk. The trick, of course, (though
>easily mastered) is gauging just the right amount of steam so you don't
>splash all over when entering or exiting the milk.
>
>Alan
>
I agree.. it depends on the individual machine. Machines with quality
paddle valves (and othrs) allow the user better control over the
steam. With machines like Silvia, the screw type valve control using a
round knob makes it more difficult to have smooth control over a
gentle steam delivery when opening the valve. You can open it to
purge, then slowly shut it to the point that it is almost closed, or
gently closed, and try to plunge from there, but it takes some time
and adjustign to get it just right. That's was why I had adopted the
"shut-off-and-plunge method."
Randy "The Law of Whatever Works" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 21:33:28
From: Paul Pratt
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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That's a new one! Never had any milk in boiler episodes, the most I
have had is finding some nastiness inside a 6 year old steam wand but
that's about all. All my customers purge before and after - well
that's what they are told to anyway.
Paul
BenB wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> What's the general view out there about purging the steam wand of a
> LaMarzocco before steaming? One of our local mechanics has recommended
> not doing this as the super hot wand that you then dunk into your cold
> milk syphons up the milk more. He says that he's having less service
> issues concerning steaming pressure and dirtiness with those cafes that
> don't flush out before steaming.
>
> I know there's been many an argument about the affects of flushing out
> condensation before steaming and how much it will affect the final
> product but how does that weigh up against this maintenence issue?
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
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Date: 13 Jun 2006 20:44:09
From: cubastreet
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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Paul Pratt wrote:
> That's a new one! Never had any milk in boiler episodes, the most I
> have had is finding some nastiness inside a 6 year old steam wand but
> that's about all. All my customers purge before and after - well
> that's what they are told to anyway.
Yeah, all my customers tell me they backflush with purocaff daily, but
when I pull out the shower screen it's a different story...
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 18:09:33
From:
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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ALL steam wands should be purged prior to steam and purged once again
at the completion of steaming.
Adding the condensation from the wand to your fresh milk is not a great
idea and a potential health risk in some situations. This is where
purging after steaming is important, because if you do not then the
residual milk in the wand becomes potential hazardous.
The information from the tech is incorrect and almost all machines
built since the early 90's use anti siphon valves, which greatly reduce
the chance of siphoning. Some home machines however are still faced
with this problem.
Terry Z
BenB wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> What's the general view out there about purging the steam wand of a
> LaMarzocco before steaming? One of our local mechanics has recommended
> not doing this as the super hot wand that you then dunk into your cold
> milk syphons up the milk more. He says that he's having less service
> issues concerning steaming pressure and dirtiness with those cafes that
> don't flush out before steaming.
>
> I know there's been many an argument about the affects of flushing out
> condensation before steaming and how much it will affect the final
> product but how does that weigh up against this maintenence issue?
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 00:31:16
From: BenB
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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terryz@espressoparts.com wrote:
> ALL steam wands should be purged prior to steam and purged once again
> at the completion of steaming.
>
> Adding the condensation from the wand to your fresh milk is not a great
> idea and a potential health risk in some situations. This is where
> purging after steaming is important, because if you do not then the
> residual milk in the wand becomes potential hazardous.
>
> The information from the tech is incorrect and almost all machines
> built since the early 90's use anti siphon valves, which greatly reduce
> the chance of siphoning. Some home machines however are still faced
> with this problem.
>
> Terry Z
Thanks for all the comments. I too felt that there wasn't something
quite right with the picture, but was ready to defer to his more common
experience of having to visit cafes to clean milk from the steam wands.
I know that a cafe I worked at doing around 40kg per week
(predominantly milk based drinks) needed to get the inside of the steam
wand and the valve cleaned every few months. Is this a common
situation? Are there any particular methods that you guys use to keep
everything running smoothly? Currently, I flush before steaming, after
steaming immediately wipe the wand clean (including the tip) and then
flush out again. Can the steam boiler water level (ie. how wet the
steam is) have any affect on the syphoning action?
Terry: could you tell me more about the anti siphon valves?
Cheers,
Ben
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 09:04:09
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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"BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com > wrote:
>I know that a cafe I worked at doing around 40kg per week
>(predominantly milk based drinks) needed to get the inside of the steam
>wand and the valve cleaned every few months. Is this a common
>situation?
The only way milk can get UP into the steam wand is if there is milk
on the wand (or the wand is left immersed in a pitcher) and the wand
then cools off, either by resting in the cooling milk or when the
machine is turned off. Right after steaming, the wand is still quite a
bit hotter than the surrounding area and the air/steam inside the wand
will still expand slightly, for a short period of time, pushing milk
OUT of the wand, not sucking it in.
Another way is if the wand is left immersed in milk, the machine
turned off, and the steam valve left in the open position. The cooling
of the boiler will create a partial vacuum and suck in milk. But this
borders on the height of stupidity, if for no other reason than milk
should never be left sitting out ANYWHERE!
Any shop worth their weight in spent coffee pucks keeps a wet rag near
the wand with which to wipe it off after steaming and gives a blast of
steam right after stretching the milk. Newer machines are coming with
double-walled steam pipes to keep the outer surface cooler so milk
does not burn on, but even these still need to be wiped off.
And if you think milk is tough, try stretching soymilk.
Randy "soycow" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 17:22:35
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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If you want to see how pervasive the vacuum effect can be, try this.
Immerse a clean wand into water and remove it, leaving a drop of water
hanging from the end. Open the steam valve fully and watch that drop
of water disappear into the wand.
I have had customers who had no interest in cleaning the wand until
shift's end, and had an inch or so of caked-on milk around the wand.
Their closing procedure entailed turning the machine off,
depressurizing through the steam and hot water wands, and sticking the
steam wand, with the valve still open, into a glass of water to
dissolve the milk buildup. When they opened the next day, the glass of
water was empty, but the milk was easy to clean off the wand.
One memorable machine was a brass-domed Gaggia Asso at a classy
strip-club (I know, an oxymoron). By the time they called me, every
time they opened the steam wand to make a drink, the stench of the
poisoned boiler would clear the room and end a dance. Nasty. I loved
that account.
On any machine, the wand should be purged before steaming, wiped off
immediately after use and purged again. It is a procedure that should
be automatic and really only takes a couple of seconds. Anyone who
pays attention can see the milk come out of the wand during the
after-use purge. Eventually that little bit of milk will find its way
into your boiler. Any technician that advises against it should think
about changing occupations....al
On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 09:04:09 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>The only way milk can get UP into the steam wand is if there is milk
>on the wand (or the wand is left immersed in a pitcher) and the wand
>then cools off, either by resting in the cooling milk or when the
>machine is turned off. Right after steaming, the wand is still quite a
>bit hotter than the surrounding area and the air/steam inside the wand
>will still expand slightly, for a short period of time, pushing milk
>OUT of the wand, not sucking it in.
>
>Another way is if the wand is left immersed in milk, the machine
>turned off, and the steam valve left in the open position. The cooling
>of the boiler will create a partial vacuum and suck in milk. But this
>borders on the height of stupidity, if for no other reason than milk
>should never be left sitting out ANYWHERE!
>
>Any shop worth their weight in spent coffee pucks keeps a wet rag near
>the wand with which to wipe it off after steaming and gives a blast of
>steam right after stretching the milk. Newer machines are coming with
>double-walled steam pipes to keep the outer surface cooler so milk
>does not burn on, but even these still need to be wiped off.
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 14:51:56
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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sprsso <acritzer@cfl.rr.com > wrote:
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Date: 09 Jun 2006 15:13:48
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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On 9 Jun 2006 00:31:16 -0700, "BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com > wrote:
ds.
>I know that a cafe I worked at doing around 40kg per week
>(predominantly milk based drinks) needed to get the inside of the steam
>wand and the valve cleaned every few months. Is this a common
>situation?
no. something is wrong there.... was the wand wiped clean and
purged immediately after **EVERY** use?
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 00:26:20
From: BenB
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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Randy G. wrote:
> sprsso <acritzer@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 10:18:26
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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"BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com > wrote:
>So, while that seems like it should take care of any problems, we
>sometimes start to lose pressure in the steam wand and then we call out
>the technician who takes the wand and valve out, scrubs them clean and
>refixes them. The steaming pressure then is back up to normal.
>
Sounds like thee are times when this doesn't happen. Ask the tech what
it is he finds in teh wand. If it is milk residue then someone isn't
wiping or purging... the steam wand.
Mabe removing the steeam wand tip and soaking it once a week with
Urnex Rinza Milk Frother Cleaner or other such cleaner (even a soak in
Cafiza or similar) is in order as part of the routine...?
Randy "someone's lying" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 17:12:36
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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On 10 Jun 2006 00:26:20 -0700, "BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>So, while that seems like it should take care of any problems, we
>sometimes start to lose pressure in the steam wand and then we call out
>the technician who takes the wand and valve out, scrubs them clean and
>refixes them. The steaming pressure then is back up to normal.
>
next time this happens, unscrew the steam wand tip and clean out the
holes, and then see if you get your pressure back.
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 19:35:38
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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BenB wrote:
> So, I'm not sure where to go from here...what you've all stated above
> is exactly what I (and the other staff members) do: before steaming we
> flush the wand free of condensation. We then steam. After steaming we
> immediately wipe the steam wand down with a different coloured cloth
> that is not stored on the bench. We then purge the steam wand to flush
> out any milk. We've been doing this since we started.
>
> So, while that seems like it should take care of any problems, we
> sometimes start to lose pressure in the steam wand and then we call out
> the technician who takes the wand and valve out, scrubs them clean and
> refixes them. The steaming pressure then is back up to normal.
>
> Are you all saying that noone else experiences this? And if not, are
> there any tests I can do to find out exactly what is happening?
>
> Thanks again for all the comments.
>
As Barry said. Your technique is fine and won't result in milk
sticking inside the tube. Remove the wand tip and clean, regularly.
We keep a supply of cocktail sticks for this use, having first soaked
the tip in boiling water for a minute or so. We do this every week or
two.
--
Regards,
Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.dannyscoffee.com (UK advert for my mobile espresso service)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/European online ordering for Malabar
Gold blend)
swap Z for above characters in email address to reply
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 01:01:31
From: BenB
Subject: Re: Purging steam wands on LM
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Ok guys - I'll give it all a shot. Again, thanks for the input - i'll
update if anything develops.
Cheers,
Ben
Randy G. wrote:
> "BenB" <ben_bicknell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So, while that seems like it should take care of any problems, we
> >sometimes start to lose pressure in the steam wand and then we call out
> >the technician who takes the wand and valve out, scrubs them clean and
> >refixes them. The steaming pressure then is back up to normal.
> >
> Sounds like thee are times when this doesn't happen. Ask the tech what
> it is he finds in teh wand. If it is milk residue then someone isn't
> wiping or purging... the steam wand.
>
> Mabe removing the steeam wand tip and soaking it once a week with
> Urnex Rinza Milk Frother Cleaner or other such cleaner (even a soak in
> Cafiza or similar) is in order as part of the routine...?
>
>
> Randy "someone's lying" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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