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Main
Date: 10 Aug 2006 19:36:49
From: Cordovero
Subject: Retailer complaint...
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I'm one of those who hate when folks complain, but here goes with a likely
uncontroversial one:
What is up with Williams Sonoma? I really feel they do more damage to the
espresso hobby than just about anyone. In the days before I found internet
resources, they were the only exposure I had to non steam toy espresso
machines, and thus I learned that they are only for the super rich and they
are still plasticky looking.
But I stopped in while taking a stroll with my gf, and I found two more
annoying things. First, I checked out their coffee machines and espresso
machines, and most of them did not have prices on them anywhere. Are they
like Tiffany's now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them? And
then second, my gf was run down by one of the middle aged hyperactive
saleslady, and instead of an apology, the lady looked my gf up and down,
head to toe, and back, explicitly assessing our income level, clearly came
to a negative conclusion (I was wearing a thrift store shirt), and then gave
us a sarcastic "Can I help you?" and walked away without waiting for an
answer.
I really wonder how much damage they do to our hobby since they are the
first point of contact for many neophytes considering something other than a
steam toy from Macy's.
Thank god for the internet.
C
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 18:10:23
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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The WS of today is not the store of yesteryear- once upon a time, like Eddie
Bauer (another place gone sadly downhill), there really was a Chuck Williams
and he was a cooking enthusiast. Now it's just another big conglomerate
(they own Pottery Barn too) with their eye focused sharply on the bottom
line. I see more and more Chinese stuff in their stores. I don't mind
Chinese stuff in a Dollar Store but not at WS prices. They have some other
stuff that's of good quality but at twice (even 3x) what it would cost
somewhere else. I just did a random search to prove my point:
http://ww2.williams-sonoma.com/cat/pip.cfm?skus=8084618&pkey=xsrd0m1%7C15%7C0%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7Ccoffee&gids=sku8084618&cmsrc=sch
A plastic Melitta type cone to go on top of a thermos - how much for this
item? Sweetmarias (itself not a place known for discounting) will sell you
one for $10. How much at W-S? $15 , $20, $25? Nope, $30 for the plastic
filter cone that must cost 50 cents to make in China.
I really avoid the place but once in a while someone gives us a gift
certificate so I have to go in there. Just about the only thing I've ever
found at retail there is their cookbooks. Of course you could get those
discounted elsewhere but I'm glad that they sell them for list price and not
at a markup. Their specialty is I think stuff that will look really good on
the countertop but that you don't actually use. Mixers and cookware in
tutti frutti colors. Phony stuff for phony people.
As you say, thank goodness for the internet
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:lVLCg.2129$Sn3.2055@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I'm one of those who hate when folks complain, but here goes with a likely
> uncontroversial one:
>
> What is up with Williams Sonoma? I really feel they do more damage to the
> espresso hobby than just about anyone. In the days before I found
> internet resources, they were the only exposure I had to non steam toy
> espresso machines, and thus I learned that they are only for the super
> rich and they are still plasticky looking.
>
> But I stopped in while taking a stroll with my gf, and I found two more
> annoying things. First, I checked out their coffee machines and espresso
> machines, and most of them did not have prices on them anywhere. Are they
> like Tiffany's now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them?
> And then second, my gf was run down by one of the middle aged hyperactive
> saleslady, and instead of an apology, the lady looked my gf up and down,
> head to toe, and back, explicitly assessing our income level, clearly came
> to a negative conclusion (I was wearing a thrift store shirt), and then
> gave us a sarcastic "Can I help you?" and walked away without waiting for
> an answer.
>
> I really wonder how much damage they do to our hobby since they are the
> first point of contact for many neophytes considering something other than
> a steam toy from Macy's.
>
> Thank god for the internet.
>
> C
>
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 23:11:59
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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> A plastic Melitta type cone to go on top of a thermos - how much for this
> item? Sweetmarias (itself not a place known for discounting) will sell
> you one for $10. How much at W-S? $15 , $20, $25? Nope, $30 for the
> plastic filter cone that must cost 50 cents to make in China.
My thoughts exactly. It's not like they have much custom stuff, if any.
There's no reason not to check Amazon for most of their stuff.
I myself was looking to buy an electric hot water kettle for my move to L.A.
but couldn't find a price anywhere. That really got to me.
Pottery Barn is a place I actually used to like, too. I know a lot of
people make fun of the homogeneity of Pottery Barn decorating everywhere,
but I kind of like it. In fact, when I moved to Vegas four years ago, I
went to literally dozens of furniture stores, and I was floored by
ridiculously high prices for very ugly couches and accessories, and very
pushy salespeople. Pottery Barn and Pier One were welcome exceptions to the
furniture stores, though we ended up buying a sofa from a super mellow guy
at a Macy's Furniture Store.
That said, I went into Pottery Bary this year and I realize that unlike ten
years ago, when I was on a grad student's budget, I'm actually priced out of
the store nowadays. You, too, can buy an anitique looking fan made in China
for $250.
Oh well,
C
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 08:54:25
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 10:12:14
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:44dee8bf.133706009@localhost...
>
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 08:13:25
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:2WCDg.3753$Qf.1449@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu> wrote in message
> news:44dee8bf.133706009@localhost...
>>
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 20:57:45
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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Zabars in NY carries a lot of the Apilco stuff at discount, last time I was
there. A lot of their stuff is not in the catalog or website but if you call
the store they will ship it to you.
As for lifetime warranty, I was recently surprised to learn that all Ekco
products have one. I had an Ekco digital instant read thermo. for several
years and it went bad. I called the toll free # on their website and they
sent a replacement with no hassle.
I visited a WS / Pottery Barn outlet recently in Lancaster, PA . I was not
impressed at all - same experience as you.
I have to say that the help in the stores I've visited has been reasonably
nice to me, considering how little I ever buy there. If they would cut
their prices by about 1/2 to 1/3 I might even buy something there.
Over the years, I've acquired a reasonably good batterie de cuisine by
buying in dribs and drabs at outlet stores, job lot stores, etc. Some of the
price were absolutely unbeatable. I have a whole set of Cuisinart All-Clad
style tri-ply (stainless inside, alu. core, copper outside) that I paid
$5/pot for (including matching lids), $20 total for a set that retails for
$400. Why? Because somewhere along the line these pots had some of the
protective lacquer scratched off so they were tarnished in spots. If you've
ever bought copper cookware, if you intend to actually use it (instead of
putting it on display) the first thing you have to do is remove ALL the
lacquer anyway. But Cusinart couldn't sell this stuff retail with tarnish
spots, nor did it pay for them to strip and refinish them, so out they door
they went for $5 a pot. I regret that I didn't buy more - I could have set
my kids up as well (though at the time they were infants and it didn't occur
to me that someday they'd have their own kitchens too).
>
> I agree with the general idea in this thread, e.g. don't buy anything
> espresso related from these people unless you live in the Aleutian Islands
> and no one else will ship to you:-)
>
> On the other hand, they carry some stuff that others do not, some esoteric
> stuff like French restaurant styled porcelain, generally understated, some
> of which actually are exclusive copies they have made in Japan. Not too
> long ago, I replaced several sizes of old soup/breakfast/etc. bowls with
> their stuff. It wasn't cheap but even so it averaged about $8 per bowl
> and the stuff should last a very long time. Originally I'd intended to
> buy this stuff from Crate and Barrell but I couldn't find anything they
> had that I liked, and the same was true of several other retailers I tried
> first.
>
> Occasionally I'll buy a few pieces of Apilco tableware from my favorite
> restaurant in France, with their logos on it. If I want to buy more so
> that I can use the pieces when company comes, I fill in with
> un-monogrammed identical pieces from WS, which cost about half here with
> our weak dollar, even at WS prices. WS is the only company I'm aware of
> that carries the whole Apilco line in the USA.
>
> There are other examples of things that no one else carries. Also, WS has
> a sales page on their website and occasionally there are good deals,
> although seldom coffee-related.
>
> WS has a few outlet stores, one of which is near Cordovero in Vegas. My
> experience there was not good, with a pretty poor selection and
> unremarkable pricing.
>
> Their customer service can be excellent. My experience with the aged
> Dualit toaster was one example, but I've also had occasion to call them a
> month after buying something when I found that it had gone on sale for a
> lot less; they've always credited the difference back to my credit card
> without any questions.
>
> ken
>
>
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:41:20
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
>But I stopped in while taking a stroll with my gf, and I found two more
>annoying things. First, I checked out their coffee machines and espresso
>machines, and most of them did not have prices on them anywhere. Are they
>like Tiffany's now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them? And
>then second, my gf was run down by one of the middle aged hyperactive
>saleslady, and instead of an apology, the lady looked my gf up and down,
>head to toe, and back, explicitly assessing our income level, clearly came
>to a negative conclusion (I was wearing a thrift store shirt), and then gave
>us a sarcastic "Can I help you?" and walked away without waiting for an
>answer.
>
I would have had to say, "YES! You can help me. I want to talk to your
manager. You are in retail sales, and if you can't offer help to a
customer you need to be looking for another field of work, and I would
be more than glad to hasten that quest by talking to your manager and
doing my best to end your employment here."
My wife's boss was in a local office supply chain store and stopped an
employee: "I need some help choosing a...." whatever it was she was
looking for.
The employee pointed, and as he walked away he said, "They're on aisle
three."
She sweetly replied, "No. I need a LITTLE MORE help than that."
I did retail work and I know how hard it can be to be nice and helpful
to customers all day. I liked the work and don't take kindly to those
who do it just for the paycheck.
Randy "may I help you?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 20:32:19
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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It's not just them. When I lived in Seattle I bought most of my kitchen
tools & hardware at Sur La Table in Pike's Market. Now I live in the Houston
area & was glad to see they opened up a store in the River Oaks area six or
so years ago. I happened to need something so I thought I'd stop in &
browse. They had a Jura F9 & S9, a Saeco, & a Delonghi EAM3500, plus a half
dozen or so semi-auto machines. When I asked for a demo of the S9 no one
knew how to run it - the 'coffee' guy was at lunch.
So I browse through the gadgets & eventually the guy comes back & he warms
up the machine & goes through his spiel about how much better espresso is
now that they've automated the whole process. Then he reaches under the
counter & pulls out a bag of Millstone medium roast whole beans. I asked him
how long they'd been open & he said they finally got rid of the nasty stuff
that came from Jura & replaced it with the Millstone about a month ago.
After the machine warmed up & he pulled a blank shot he pulled a double for
me. Needless to say but it was pretty bad; in fact I can't remember ever
having worse from a top name brand machine. After he beamed at me & asked
what I thought I nearly choked.
So which is worse, a snobbish salesperson who offends people or an ignorant
'expert' trying to sell something he knows nothing about? Snobs don't bother
me because as a Texan I grew up with people who fit the saying "All hat, no
cows!". A snob may piss you off but an ignorant 'expert' will cost you
money!
--
Robert (phonetic definition of expert: ex = a has been, spurt = a drip under
pressure) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6rur
"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:lVLCg.2129$Sn3.2055@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I'm one of those who hate when folks complain, but here goes with a likely
> uncontroversial one:
>
> What is up with Williams Sonoma? I really feel they do more damage to the
> espresso hobby than just about anyone. In the days before I found
> internet resources, they were the only exposure I had to non steam toy
> espresso machines, and thus I learned that they are only for the super
> rich and they are still plasticky looking.
>
> But I stopped in while taking a stroll with my gf, and I found two more
> annoying things. First, I checked out their coffee machines and espresso
> machines, and most of them did not have prices on them anywhere. Are they
> like Tiffany's now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them?
> And then second, my gf was run down by one of the middle aged hyperactive
> saleslady, and instead of an apology, the lady looked my gf up and down,
> head to toe, and back, explicitly assessing our income level, clearly came
> to a negative conclusion (I was wearing a thrift store shirt), and then
> gave us a sarcastic "Can I help you?" and walked away without waiting for
> an answer.
>
> I really wonder how much damage they do to our hobby since they are the
> first point of contact for many neophytes considering something other than
> a steam toy from Macy's.
>
> Thank god for the internet.
>
> C
>
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:14:47
From: Karl
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
|
> What is up with Williams Sonoma? I really feel they do more damage to the
> espresso hobby than just about anyone.
To be fair, I need to say that they are the only place locally
(Northern VA) where I've been able to try out superautomatics. I had
toyed with the idea of getting one last year, but wanted to know
whether they made acceptable espresso. They sure sound convenient.
I found the staff at WS to be fairly helpful, certainly knowledgeable
about the running the machines, if not about espresso.
Played with their superautomatics, using my own roasted DSB (they were
using LaVazza) and determined they could make highly repeatable, but
very ordinary, espresso. Went out and got my Brewtus II instead.
But for WS, I probably would have bought a superautomatic and had to go
through the pain of returning it.
WS is expensive, but they used to be about the only place you could
find a lot of things, and they still have a lot of toys for those who
like to play with kitchen stuff.
Karl (who also thanks God for the Internet) Rice
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 15:24:50
From: wff_ng_7
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:
> First, I checked out their coffee machines and espresso machines, and most
> of them did not have prices on them anywhere. Are they like Tiffany's
> now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them?
I don't know if not putting the price on things is deliberate, or just
incompetence. It is something that really bugs me too. I think in many
stores it is deliberate, in the hopes that you'll be too embarrassed to
forego the sale when you find out the price at the register. I don't like
making split second purchase decisions at checkout; it infuriates me. If it
is deliberate policy not to mark prices, it backfires on me, but I get the
feeling it is successful for a majority of customers.
Not that it's a great store, but one thing I liked about K-Mart was they
were one of the first to install barcode readers to do price checks
throughout the store. I have seen recently that this has moved to more
upscale stores... I encountered a barcode reader in a Strawbridge's (soon to
become Macy's) in Wilmington, DE. I presume this was a Macy's change, as the
screens on the barcode reader already said Macy's, even though the store
itself was still a Strawbridge's.
In any case, I suppose it would be a bit difficult to lug a superautomatic
up to the barcode reader! ;-)
--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 19:01:38
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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> Not that it's a great store, but one thing I liked about K-Mart was they
> were one of the first to install barcode readers to do price checks
> throughout the store.
We have a new Whole Foods nearby and they have some barcode readers, too,
which I've already used. I like that, too.
C
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:29:42
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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"Cordovero" <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:mu4Dg.2528$Sn3.1606@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Not that it's a great store, but one thing I liked about K-Mart was they
> > were one of the first to install barcode readers to do price checks
> > throughout the store.
>
> We have a new Whole Foods nearby and they have some barcode readers, too,
> which I've already used. I like that, too.
>
> C
>
Not bar codes but K-Mart/Sears-they have an online order system for things
in their stores where you can check availability in stores near you then
order and pay for the item online then just swing by the store and pick it
up.
I'm not a usual customer of their's but used that great system twice in the
last 3 months for air-conditioning needs from Sears. The last was for an
item too big for me to load and I just backed my truck up to the door where
they have spaces set aside just for that and they wheeled it out and loaded
it on the truck. That's service.
Beats Home Desperates and Lowes hands down. The latter have not realised
what the web is about.
Sears/K-mart are leaving them in the dust in that regard.
And to mention coffee, tonight we get to cup a couple of Daterras: a yellow
bourbon and a peaberry. Roasted Wednesday evening. Looking forward to that
:-)
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:54:11
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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the reason prices are not posted:
1) "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"
OR
2) If you saw the prices, you would run screaming from the place.
BTW, our ws store has prices posted.
WHAT A RIPOFF!!
Dave
98
Cordovero wrote:
> > A plastic Melitta type cone to go on top of a thermos - how much for this
> > item? Sweetmarias (itself not a place known for discounting) will sell
> > you one for $10. How much at W-S? $15 , $20, $25? Nope, $30 for the
> > plastic filter cone that must cost 50 cents to make in China.
>
> My thoughts exactly. It's not like they have much custom stuff, if any.
> There's no reason not to check Amazon for most of their stuff.
>
> I myself was looking to buy an electric hot water kettle for my move to L.A.
> but couldn't find a price anywhere. That really got to me.
>
> Pottery Barn is a place I actually used to like, too. I know a lot of
> people make fun of the homogeneity of Pottery Barn decorating everywhere,
> but I kind of like it. In fact, when I moved to Vegas four years ago, I
> went to literally dozens of furniture stores, and I was floored by
> ridiculously high prices for very ugly couches and accessories, and very
> pushy salespeople. Pottery Barn and Pier One were welcome exceptions to the
> furniture stores, though we ended up buying a sofa from a super mellow guy
> at a Macy's Furniture Store.
>
> That said, I went into Pottery Bary this year and I realize that unlike ten
> years ago, when I was on a grad student's budget, I'm actually priced out of
> the store nowadays. You, too, can buy an anitique looking fan made in China
> for $250.
>
> Oh well,
> C
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:58:10
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
|
> BTW, our ws store has prices posted.
Most of them were, but not on a couple of things, including an electric hot
water kettle -- the only thing I was interested in. Actually I also looked
at the cutting knives, and the price list was very hard to match up with the
items in the case, but that may not be unique to ws.
C
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 04:25:35
From: bizbee
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
|
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:36:49 GMT in
<lVLCg.2129$Sn3.2055@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net >, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > graced the world with this
thought:
> Are they
>like Tiffany's now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them?
did you ask them? If not, why not, since you're asking us....
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 14:45:31
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
|
The new neighborhood troll?
C
"bizbee" <tuberoo@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:3LcDg.2701$Sn3.974@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:36:49 GMT in
> <lVLCg.2129$Sn3.2055@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, "Cordovero"
> <cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> graced the world with this
> thought:
>
>> Are they
>>like Tiffany's now, so that if you have to ask, you can't afford them?
>
> did you ask them? If not, why not, since you're asking us....
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 14:41:42
From: bizbee
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
|
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:36:49 GMT in
<lVLCg.2129$Sn3.2055@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net >, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroxxxremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > graced the world with this
thought:
>I'm one of those who hate when folks complain, but here goes with a likely
For someone that hates when people complain, you sure picked a couple
absurd things to complain about.
Sorry you lost your job at WS.
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 21:48:35
From: rasqual
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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D. Ross wrote:
>
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 01:07:32
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
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"rasqual" <scott.marquardt@gmail.com > wrote:
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 17:58:01
From: Doug Cadmus
Subject: Re: Retailer complaint...
|
Jack Denver wrote:
> The WS of today is not the store of yesteryear- once upon a time, like Eddie
> Bauer (another place gone sadly downhill), there really was a Chuck Williams
> and he was a cooking enthusiast. Now it's just another big conglomerate
> (they own Pottery Barn too) with their eye focused sharply on the bottom
> line.
There's your free market for ya, right there.
;)
-deCadmus
www.bloggle.com
Made in Vermont
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