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Date: 21 Jul 2006 10:28:13
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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First I want to thank those that helped and suggested roasting my own
coffee. It has been an adventure in pure pleasure.
I have the FreshRoast +8 roaster and am very happy with it and have
roasted a few fine beans over the last couple of weeks. For info, I
don't drink espresso shots at all, I do cafe cremas, Americanos, caps
and lattes. I also take all coffee sweet and light, just personal
preference.
I have noticed something in the resting and how it affects flavor.
First, with the sweetmarias Ethiopia FTO Yirgacheffe Dry Process I found
that allowing it to rest 12 hours and then making a cuppa, the berry
nuance is very much there and quite enjoyable. But, at the suggestion
of someone on a different board, when I let it rest 48 hours the result
was a bit different. While still very delicious, the berry nuance is
nearly gone.
Second, with the sweetmarias Sulawesi Toraja Grade 1, the rest time
didn't seem to make as much difference. At 12 and 48 hour rests, the
results were the same to my taste.
So at the moment, my observation is that for highly nuanced coffees,
maybe the shorter rest time is more important. Is that valid in all
cases? I don't know, if someone here has more experience, please give
an opinion or experience.
I have 3 shipments of beans coming in, 2 from SweetMarias and one from
Willoughby's (harrar). At the time of ordering, SM didn't have any
Harrar and after reading about it, I wanted some.
Lloyd
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 10:10:12
From:
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:28:13 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>First, with the sweetmarias Ethiopia FTO Yirgacheffe Dry Process I found
>that allowing it to rest 12 hours and then making a cuppa, the berry
>nuance is very much there and quite enjoyable. But, at the suggestion
>of someone on a different board, when I let it rest 48 hours the result
>was a bit different. While still very delicious, the berry nuance is
>nearly gone.
I'm inclined to agree. I'm a huge fan of red sea coffees. I, too, have
found that the subtlties tend to fade quickly and yemen and ethiopian
coffees are often at their best (to my taste) 12 to 36 hours after
roasting. I realize this goes against conventional wisdom, so it's
good to hear the same observation from someone else.
>
>Second, with the sweetmarias Sulawesi Toraja Grade 1, the rest time
>didn't seem to make as much difference. At 12 and 48 hour rests, the
>results were the same to my taste.
>
>Lloyd
As for the Sulawesi, 48 hrs is not a very long rest. You may notice
some changes at 3 to 4 days. I'm less enchanted by indos generally
(PNG being the exception), but I do think that they tend to retain
their qualities longer after roasting than most. I've always thought
that was one of the reasons Peet's (at least in the early days at the
Walnut and Vine mother ship) was so committed to Indos. That and
Indos' friendliness to Peet's darker style of roasting.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 23:28:37
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:10:12 -0700, Rogue Ja wrote:
> I've always thought
>that was one of the reasons Peet's (at least in the early days at the
>Walnut and Vine mother ship) was so committed to Indos. That and
>Indos' friendliness to Peet's darker style of roasting.
More likely the other way around. Alfred Peet spent years in Indonesia
in the Dutch coffee trade.
Marshall
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 20:28:12
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On 2006-07-21, Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> More likely the other way around. Alfred Peet spent years in Indonesia
> in the Dutch coffee trade.
Doing what? Making charcoal?
nb
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 17:44:08
From:
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:28:37 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:10:12 -0700, Rogue Ja wrote:
>
>> I've always thought
>>that was one of the reasons Peet's (at least in the early days at the
>>Walnut and Vine mother ship) was so committed to Indos. That and
>>Indos' friendliness to Peet's darker style of roasting.
>
>More likely the other way around. Alfred Peet spent years in Indonesia
>in the Dutch coffee trade.
>
>Marshall
Ah. Makes sense. Haven't had Peet's in years, but I was away a while
back and needed some coffee. Bought a hald pound of Major D's. Very
difficult to reconcile that coffee with my fond memories of Peet's . I
might as well have picked it up at starbucks. (yes, yes, I know...).
_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 20:38:44
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On 2006-07-22, Roque Ja <Roque > wrote:
> difficult to reconcile that coffee with my fond memories of Peet's . I
> might as well have picked it up at starbucks.....
Agreed. A new Peet's opened 2 short blocks from me. Their espresso
is pretty good. They consistently pull a good double. But, the two
times I've ordered a cup of coffee, black, they were both undrinkable.
Like sucking on a briquet. No matter. I now have a good epresso
machine and I leave Peet's to the less enlightened. ;)
nb
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 03:38:08
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:38:44 -0500, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:
>On 2006-07-22, Roque Ja <Roque> wrote:
>
>> difficult to reconcile that coffee with my fond memories of Peet's . I
>> might as well have picked it up at starbucks.....
>
>Agreed. A new Peet's opened 2 short blocks from me. Their espresso
>is pretty good. They consistently pull a good double. But, the two
>times I've ordered a cup of coffee, black, they were both undrinkable.
>Like sucking on a briquet. No matter. I now have a good epresso
>machine and I leave Peet's to the less enlightened. ;)
>
>nb
By which I assume you mean you personally didn't like it. As Peets has
hundreds of thousands of devoted customers, it is safe to assume that
in fact their coffee is very "drinkable."
Marshall "frequently drinks it"
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 23:05:04
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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<Rogue Ja > wrote
[...]
> I'm inclined to agree. I'm a huge fan of red sea coffees. I, too, have
> found that the subtlties tend to fade quickly and yemen and ethiopian
> coffees are often at their best (to my taste) 12 to 36 hours after
> roasting. I realize this goes against conventional wisdom, so it's
> good to hear the same observation from someone else.
[...]
Speaking of the Red Sea coffees, and for what it's worth, the traditional
coffee-brewing method in Yemen and in Ethiopia allows virtually NO "rest
time" after roasting. Beans are typically roasted in very small batches
(enough for 1-2 servings at a time), immediately pulverized (still hot from
the pan) in a mortar and pestle, and brewed right away (Turkish-style).
This is not to say that it's "better" that way --- I'm merely pointing out
what the "conventional wisdom" is regarding roasting in those Red Sea
countries . . .
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 18:33:13
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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In article <A4dwg.177002$F_3.63116@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net >,
"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Speaking of the Red Sea coffees, and for what it's worth, the traditional
> coffee-brewing method in Yemen and in Ethiopia allows virtually NO "rest
> time" after roasting. Beans are typically roasted in very small batches
> (enough for 1-2 servings at a time), immediately pulverized (still hot from
> the pan) in a mortar and pestle, and brewed right away (Turkish-style).
> This is not to say that it's "better" that way --- I'm merely pointing out
> what the "conventional wisdom" is regarding roasting in those Red Sea
> countries . . .
I had just finished roasting a small batch of Yirgacheffe and saw this
post. So I made a cafe crema (single dose of coffee, brewed to 5 oz).
Interesting...
A slight bit more bitter with a berry aftertone, quite good. I think I
prefer it after 12 hours rest though.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 13:15:07
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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In article <dp12c298l330302nldviu9bj2pv2akhnmb@4ax.com >, Rogue Ja
wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:28:13 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >First, with the sweetmarias Ethiopia FTO Yirgacheffe Dry Process I found
> >that allowing it to rest 12 hours and then making a cuppa, the berry
> >nuance is very much there and quite enjoyable. But, at the suggestion
> >of someone on a different board, when I let it rest 48 hours the result
> >was a bit different. While still very delicious, the berry nuance is
> >nearly gone.
>
>
> I'm inclined to agree. I'm a huge fan of red sea coffees. I, too, have
> found that the subtlties tend to fade quickly and yemen and ethiopian
> coffees are often at their best (to my taste) 12 to 36 hours after
> roasting. I realize this goes against conventional wisdom, so it's
> good to hear the same observation from someone else.
>
Maybe our tasters are out of whack! ;-)
I wasn't expecting a berry nuance with the Yirgacheffe, but it was
definitely there.
I have a Sidamo coming, probably tomorrow along with a Harar from
Willoughby's. I've never drank either so I'm looking forward to it.
>
> >
> >Second, with the sweetmarias Sulawesi Toraja Grade 1, the rest time
> >didn't seem to make as much difference. At 12 and 48 hour rests, the
> >results were the same to my taste.
> >
> >Lloyd
>
> As for the Sulawesi, 48 hrs is not a very long rest. You may notice
> some changes at 3 to 4 days. I'm less enchanted by indos generally
> (PNG being the exception), but I do think that they tend to retain
> their qualities longer after roasting than most. I've always thought
> that was one of the reasons Peet's (at least in the early days at the
> Walnut and Vine mother ship) was so committed to Indos. That and
> Indos' friendliness to Peet's darker style of roasting.
Hmm... I thought that roasted beans were really only great at less
than a week old. So does this mean roast, wait 3-4 days and drink fast?
;-)
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 16:45:11
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:28:13 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>So at the moment, my observation is that for highly nuanced coffees,
>maybe the shorter rest time is more important. Is that valid in all
>cases? I don't know, if someone here has more experience, please give
>an opinion or experience.
I'm not an expert but we are purchasing the same coffees, apparently,
from SM's.
The Sulawesi/Harar blend that is my staple drip coffee is drinkable
warm from the roaster, but days three and four are remarkably
improved. The Sulawesi becomes almost syrupy, the Harar becomes
blueberries and flowers, the combo blissful. Like a jazz jam that
begins a bit discordant but finishes in perfect euphonious harmony.
As to the Yirgacheffe Dry Process, I never had the berry nuance to
begin with, my batches tasted of dried fruit, peanuts, and were a
little herbaceous in a good way. The body seemed to improve each day,
but they flavor profile did not seem to shift. BTW it was roasted to
City and a touch more. I use the smell descriptions that Barry posted
to a question I had once to gauge the roast levels now, in addition to
the sounds.
Thom's Rwanda Gatare has been for me (outside of espresso blends) the
coffee most effected by rest I found the Gatare undrinkable until day
two, and it improved each day. It is not my "cup of tea", but it was
surprising to see the flavors shift around on that coffee to a degree
I had not experienced before over a 5 day period.
As for days 6 and beyond, I can't comment.
Coffee is a bit like cash with me, I enjoy burning through it with
abandon, and rarely have an opportunity to experience oversupply.
Those are my experiences, anyway. I haven't found that bold or subtle
flavors develop or decline based on their initial boldness or
subtlety. That's not to say that the coffees don't change...
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 10:00:48
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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"Steve" <not@use.net > wrote in message
news:opt1c2d72gts5ttva3jujpm8g503cg040h@4ax.com...
> <snip: 'great descriptions of various roasts and beans' />
>
You've missed your calling with those descriptions :-)
So what are you roasting with?
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 17:18:37
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:00:48 -0700, "Johnny"
<removethis.huuanito@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
>"Steve" <not@use.net> wrote in message
>news:opt1c2d72gts5ttva3jujpm8g503cg040h@4ax.com...
>> <snip: 'great descriptions of various roasts and beans' />
>>
>
>You've missed your calling with those descriptions :-)
>
>So what are you roasting with?
That's a nice compliment, thanks.
I have one of the rare first generation iRoasts that actually work
properly and are capable of producing (reasonably) consistent results.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 13:11:07
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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In article <opt1c2d72gts5ttva3jujpm8g503cg040h@4ax.com >,
Steve <not@use.net > wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:28:13 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >So at the moment, my observation is that for highly nuanced coffees,
> >maybe the shorter rest time is more important. Is that valid in all
> >cases? I don't know, if someone here has more experience, please give
> >an opinion or experience.
>
> I'm not an expert but we are purchasing the same coffees, apparently,
> from SM's.
>
> The Sulawesi/Harar blend that is my staple drip coffee is drinkable
> warm from the roaster, but days three and four are remarkably
> improved. The Sulawesi becomes almost syrupy, the Harar becomes
> blueberries and flowers, the combo blissful. Like a jazz jam that
> begins a bit discordant but finishes in perfect euphonious harmony.
>
> As to the Yirgacheffe Dry Process, I never had the berry nuance to
> begin with, my batches tasted of dried fruit, peanuts, and were a
> little herbaceous in a good way. The body seemed to improve each day,
> but they flavor profile did not seem to shift. BTW it was roasted to
> City and a touch more. I use the smell descriptions that Barry posted
> to a question I had once to gauge the roast levels now, in addition to
> the sounds.
>
> Thom's Rwanda Gatare has been for me (outside of espresso blends) the
> coffee most effected by rest I found the Gatare undrinkable until day
> two, and it improved each day. It is not my "cup of tea", but it was
> surprising to see the flavors shift around on that coffee to a degree
> I had not experienced before over a 5 day period.
>
> As for days 6 and beyond, I can't comment.
> Coffee is a bit like cash with me, I enjoy burning through it with
> abandon, and rarely have an opportunity to experience oversupply.
>
> Those are my experiences, anyway. I haven't found that bold or subtle
> flavors develop or decline based on their initial boldness or
> subtlety. That's not to say that the coffees don't change...
Great descriptions! And yes, we are buying from the same place, or at
least that stuff was from there.
About that blend? Sulawesi/Harar at what proportions? And do you roast
singly and then blend, or blend and then roast? I'm interested as I've
not done any blending yet.
With the Yirgacheffe Dry Process I did notice a berry nuance, but there
was a bit more difference than I initially indicated in the resting, I
had forgotten that. With the shorter rest, I had put the beans in a 1/2
pint jar sealed for the 12 hours, the next roast I put in a plastic bag
w/one-way valve for much longer. Both batches roasted at 6.5 minutes,
City+.
The longer rested coffee did taste different, closer to what you
described.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 18:31:20
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:11:07 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>Great descriptions! And yes, we are buying from the same place, or at
>least that stuff was from there.
>
>About that blend? Sulawesi/Harar at what proportions? And do you roast
>singly and then blend, or blend and then roast? I'm interested as I've
>not done any blending yet.
>
>With the Yirgacheffe Dry Process I did notice a berry nuance, but there
>was a bit more difference than I initially indicated in the resting, I
>had forgotten that. With the shorter rest, I had put the beans in a 1/2
>pint jar sealed for the 12 hours, the next roast I put in a plastic bag
>w/one-way valve for much longer. Both batches roasted at 6.5 minutes,
>City+.
>
>The longer rested coffee did taste different, closer to what you
>described.
I rest the coffee, and store it in, the Bosch valve bags that Thom
sells; interesting that we have the same taste experience around that
bag.
Hopefully someone will be along soon to explain that :-)
As to the blend, it is not my original blend, I took it directly from
Thom's blending page. The blend is 50%/50%, blended post-roast.
It's at http://www.sweetmarias.com/blending.html
HTH.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 15:57:41
From:
Subject: Re: Roasting & Resting, an observation
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Rogue wrote:
> As for the Sulawesi, 48 hrs is not a very long rest. You may notice
> some changes at 3 to 4 days. I'm less enchanted by indos generally
> (PNG being the exception), but I do think that they tend to retain
> their qualities longer after roasting than most. I've always thought
> that was one of the reasons Peet's (at least in the early days at the
> Walnut and Vine mother ship) was so committed to Indos. That and
> Indos' friendliness to Peet's darker style of roasting.
I've found that Harar is best straight from the cooler and fades to
junk after about 4 days. It's kind of heart breaking if you want
something that will last, but on the other hand it's great to have a
bag laying around if you run out - great coffee can be had in ten
minutes.
You might try putting a batch of something that needs a rest into a
regular ziplock bag. I squeeze the bag as I am closing it to push the
bulk of the air out. I can tell when it is done resting by how much it
has swelled. Usually coffees outgas at a nonlinear rate, with the bulk
coming out at the same time that the flavor peaks after resting. Try
it at report back.
Matthew
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