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Date: 25 Jul 2006 00:59:37
From: Davesport
Subject: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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Being new to making espresso I'm still messing with different grinds &
tamping pressure. Anyone care to reflect on which number they're grinding at
using a Silvia Rocky combination ?
TIA Dave.
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:01:03
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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"Davesport" <davesport@fastmail.com > wrote:
>Being new to making espresso I'm still messing with different grinds &
>tamping pressure. Anyone care to reflect on which number they're grinding at
>using a Silvia Rocky combination ?
>
There is no one number that always works- that is, the calibrations
are not that accurate. To find a starting place try this- WITH THE
GRINDER TURNED _OFF_, hold down the detent button and adjust finer
until the hopper stops. Now go about 15 steps the other way. By about
the third of fourth pull you should be pretty close. The range of
grind is fairly narrow- one or two clicks too fine and nothing comes
out for the first ten or fifteen seconds. One or two clicks too coarse
and the flow is like a tan Niagara.
The tip you were given about using the scale to judge your tamping
force is a good one. Most new home barristas who think they are
tamping at 35 pounds find that when they use a scale they are at more
like 50-60. Aim for ABOUT no more than 30 pounds on the second tamp.
As time goes on you will be more able to feel the tamp and adjust to
the situation, but for now, using a consistent dose, leveling
procedure, and tamp, and then adjusting the grind to that will be of
the greatest benefit to you in the long run.
Consistency, attention to details, and patience will pay great
dividends in the long run- and making espresso is all about the long
run.
..and what coffee are you using?
Randy "see below" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 14:21:23
From: Davesport
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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I'm using coffee that "Drury Tea & Coffee" sent me when I bought the Silvia
& Rocky. It says Siena on the bag but TBH I couldn't shed any more light on
it as I've nothing to compare with. The tamper that was supplied is a cheapo
plastic job that's too small for the basket & is also convex. I've since had
a better result using the bottom of a suitably sized drinking glass. ( Stop
sniggering up at the back there ! ) I've now ordered the right size tamper
for the job & I'm certain this will help. I've also been using too much
pressure & will have to dig out the scales & look at how much pressure I'm
using.
As an aside. My wife & kids think I'm turning into an "Anorak" doing all
this just to get a "cup of coffee" Am I alone ???
Dave. In a hot & very sunny Scotland.
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:rs8bc2p21tg1q61gjqgd19t1h2j4jpsonj@4ax.com...
> "Davesport" <davesport@fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Being new to making espresso I'm still messing with different grinds &
>>tamping pressure. Anyone care to reflect on which number they're grinding
>>at
>>using a Silvia Rocky combination ?
>>
>
> There is no one number that always works- that is, the calibrations
> are not that accurate. To find a starting place try this- WITH THE
> GRINDER TURNED _OFF_, hold down the detent button and adjust finer
> until the hopper stops. Now go about 15 steps the other way. By about
> the third of fourth pull you should be pretty close. The range of
> grind is fairly narrow- one or two clicks too fine and nothing comes
> out for the first ten or fifteen seconds. One or two clicks too coarse
> and the flow is like a tan Niagara.
>
> The tip you were given about using the scale to judge your tamping
> force is a good one. Most new home barristas who think they are
> tamping at 35 pounds find that when they use a scale they are at more
> like 50-60. Aim for ABOUT no more than 30 pounds on the second tamp.
> As time goes on you will be more able to feel the tamp and adjust to
> the situation, but for now, using a consistent dose, leveling
> procedure, and tamp, and then adjusting the grind to that will be of
> the greatest benefit to you in the long run.
>
> Consistency, attention to details, and patience will pay great
> dividends in the long run- and making espresso is all about the long
> run.
>
> ..and what coffee are you using?
>
>
> Randy "see below" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
>
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:29:41
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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It has been quite some time, but we need to remind that you NEED a
proper sized tamper. You're ordering the proper sized one was a huge
step.
When you get to the point that you are making great coffee beverages
and the weather turns cold and damp, they will be begging for coffee
and you can turn it around on them! ;-)
Check for local roasters who can do a proper espresso and get friendly
there. They should let you know when roast days are so you can arrange
to get fresh. Otherwise, a home roaster may be in your future. If the
family thinks you're crazy now, just wait! ;-)
Randy "5 roasters" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
"Davesport" <davesport@fastmail.com > wrote:
>
>I'm using coffee that "Drury Tea & Coffee" sent me when I bought the Silvia
>& Rocky. It says Siena on the bag but TBH I couldn't shed any more light on
>it as I've nothing to compare with. The tamper that was supplied is a cheapo
>plastic job that's too small for the basket & is also convex. I've since had
>a better result using the bottom of a suitably sized drinking glass. ( Stop
>sniggering up at the back there ! ) I've now ordered the right size tamper
>for the job & I'm certain this will help. I've also been using too much
>pressure & will have to dig out the scales & look at how much pressure I'm
>using.
>
>As an aside. My wife & kids think I'm turning into an "Anorak" doing all
>this just to get a "cup of coffee" Am I alone ???
>
>Dave. In a hot & very sunny Scotland.
>"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
>news:rs8bc2p21tg1q61gjqgd19t1h2j4jpsonj@4ax.com...
>> "Davesport" <davesport@fastmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Being new to making espresso I'm still messing with different grinds &
>>>tamping pressure. Anyone care to reflect on which number they're grinding
>>>at
>>>using a Silvia Rocky combination ?
>>>
>>
>> There is no one number that always works- that is, the calibrations
>> are not that accurate. To find a starting place try this- WITH THE
>> GRINDER TURNED _OFF_, hold down the detent button and adjust finer
>> until the hopper stops. Now go about 15 steps the other way. By about
>> the third of fourth pull you should be pretty close. The range of
>> grind is fairly narrow- one or two clicks too fine and nothing comes
>> out for the first ten or fifteen seconds. One or two clicks too coarse
>> and the flow is like a tan Niagara.
>>
>> The tip you were given about using the scale to judge your tamping
>> force is a good one. Most new home barristas who think they are
>> tamping at 35 pounds find that when they use a scale they are at more
>> like 50-60. Aim for ABOUT no more than 30 pounds on the second tamp.
>> As time goes on you will be more able to feel the tamp and adjust to
>> the situation, but for now, using a consistent dose, leveling
>> procedure, and tamp, and then adjusting the grind to that will be of
>> the greatest benefit to you in the long run.
>>
>> Consistency, attention to details, and patience will pay great
>> dividends in the long run- and making espresso is all about the long
>> run.
>>
>> ..and what coffee are you using?
>>
>>
>> Randy "see below" G.
>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>>
>>
>>
>
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 20:07:27
From: Ken Wilson
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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"Randy G."
> It has been quite some time, but we need to remind that you NEED a
> proper sized tamper. You're ordering the proper sized one was a huge
> step.
No you don't.
Nor, unless the silvia is different to every other coffee machine I've ever
used - and extensive testing and discourse on alt.c showed - do you need to
tamp at any particular pressure - as long as you are consistent.
There is a body of thought that an undersized tamper pushed in the 4
quadrants does a better job.
A posh tamper is a joy to use - but its a luxury.
and we have been down this route more than once, Randy......
and, yes, my wife thinks I am a coffee nerd - and she doesn't like the
output. OTOH, we've had some people round this afternoon that we haven't
seen for 4 yrs since they last came round for dinner. She chastised me
becuase her hubby went home and spent £240 on an espresso machine.... - so
some people think its worth it!
Ken
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 20:20:21
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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I've been playing with the minimalist tamp lately - using the tamp to level
off not compress the coffee. Not all machines seem to work well using this
method. My Gaggia Espresso likes a light tamp, 10-15 lbs; the old-style
Coffee likes no tamp, just level; the LP Pro & Gaggia Classic like a heavy
tamp of 30# plus. The La Cimbali doesn't seem to care what I do, tamp hard
get great crema, tamp lightly & get more flavor - it's all GOOD!
The two constants for all machines I use are a fine grind & preinfusing by
stopping the pull at the first sign of output in the bottom of the cup.
After 10-15 seconds I restart the pull & finish the shot. With the latest
blend I roasted (50/50 blend of Indonesian & Columbian) I get better than
50% crema through a non pressurized PF.
More important than the grind & tamp is the temperature. I've learned to
temp surf the Gaggia's & I've pretty much mastered keeping the group temps
constant. I wish there were ways to measure the water temp in the group but
all I have to go on now is the taste of the output. Too hot & the results
taste burned; not hot enough & I get a sour taste. Maybe some day I'll get
ambitious & drill into the group & place a probe to monitor the temps. But
not today, I've got to catch up on my naps.
--
Robert (keep meticulous records or make the same mistakes until you do)
Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"Ken Wilson" <ken@kwilsonDEDUCT.fsnet.co.uk > wrote in message
news:ea5q49$1k9$1@nntp.aioe.org...
> No you don't.
>
> Nor, unless the silvia is different to every other coffee machine I've
> ever used - and extensive testing and discourse on alt.c showed - do you
> need to tamp at any particular pressure - as long as you are consistent.
>
> There is a body of thought that an undersized tamper pushed in the 4
> quadrants does a better job.
>
> A posh tamper is a joy to use - but its a luxury.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 07:42:07
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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"Ken Wilson" <ken@kwilsonDEDUCT.fsnet.co.uk > wrote:
>"Randy G."
>
>> It has been quite some time, but we need to remind that you NEED a
>> proper sized tamper. You're ordering the proper sized one was a huge
>> step.
>
>No you don't.
>
The guys first words were, "I'm new to making espresso..." and so I
figured that making it as easy and straightforward would be the best
advice. In my experience the dose is most important and any gyrations
done in the tamping process is to compensate for poor dosing, clumps,
cavities in the dose, etc. This would seem to be substantiated by the
general lack of accurate tamping as seen in Italy at so many shops as
reported here on alt.cofee.
What I have been doing with excellent results is the joystick tamp.
For the first light tamp, grasp the tamper's handle and turn (not spin
and not twist) the tamper in a small circle like a joystick to
compress the outer regions of the puck, tap the PF to loosen coffee
around the edges and then finish tamp, and then polish.
Randy "whatever works I suppose" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 09:37:47
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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Davesport wrote:
> As an aside. My wife & kids think I'm turning into an "Anorak" doing all
> this just to get a "cup of coffee" Am I alone ???
No, lots of spouses, POSSLQs and friends have thought that...right up
until the time that you show them what a really good cup of coffee
tastes like.
--
St. John
He looked at me as if I were a side dish he hadn't ordered.
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 21:39:54
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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I think my rocky is on 5 or 6
but i think they are all different aren't they? i mean my 5 does not
equal your 5
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 20:34:14
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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Davesport wrote:
> Being new to making espresso I'm still messing with different grinds &
> tamping pressure. Anyone care to reflect on which number they're grinding at
> using a Silvia Rocky combination ?
>
> TIA Dave.
FWIW, 10 works for us (give or take a click)
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 19:24:13
From: LF
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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Davesport wrote:
> Being new to making espresso I'm still messing with different grinds &
> tamping pressure. Anyone care to reflect on which number they're grinding at
> using a Silvia Rocky combination ?
>
> TIA Dave.
My $0.02 -- from a fellow beginner:
Ah, you're on the path.
1) Get a bathroom scale to measure your tamping pressure. Choose one
tamping pressure and stick with it for a while. (I like 30#)
2) Start with the Rocky on 5. Regulate the grind until you get a 2 oz
pour in 25-30 seconds.
3) While you are working on 1 & 2, google "temperature surfing" and
"Silvia."
All the best,
Larry
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 22:57:00
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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> The range of grind is fairly narrow- one or two clicks too fine and nothing comes
> out for the first ten or fifteen seconds. One or two clicks too coarse
> and the flow is like a tan Niagara.
> Randy "see below" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
How many seconds does it take for you to come out?
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 22:16:59
From: razmoo
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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Robert Harmon wrote:
>
> The two constants for all machines I use are a fine grind & preinfusing by
> stopping the pull at the first sign of output in the bottom of the cup.
> After 10-15 seconds I restart the pull & finish the shot.
Is this for real? The pre infusing thing. Is it common at all?
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 10:11:52
From: Leo95se
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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my tranquilo has the same 'problem'. either too course or too fine.
sort of frustrating since its only function is to grind my damn coffee.
lol.
anyway, with summer humidity in full swing, im up about 2 notches from
spring weather.
Randy G. wrote:
The range of
> grind is fairly narrow- one or two clicks too fine and nothing comes
> out for the first ten or fifteen seconds. One or two clicks too coarse
> and the flow is like a tan Niagara.
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 20:15:59
From:
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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I just upgraded from a Rocky to a Macap M4 stepless. The Macap is a
great grinder.
I heard and experienced it as well that starting out with a Rocky a
setting of about +6-+8 from zero works for a while but at some point
you start going finer. For me I started at about +8 with a new Rocky
and the shots were decent for a few months but I found I had to fine
down the grind to keep the pour times consistent until I ended up at
+2-+3 from zero.
I also home roast and starting off I roasted almost everything light
but slowly started going to the dark side. That could be one of the
reasons for going finer- there's more oils still in bean with a light
roast so more blooming would mean a coarser grind, reverse for dark
roasts. Still, going finer with a Rocky over time seems to be a common
thing for what ever reason.
For dosing I grind for dose and that's a rounded scoop of beans per
single. With a single basket I find dosing over the top and
distributing it level tp the basket's rim ends up over dosing so I stay
with the grind from a rounded espresso coffee scoop and with an even
Weiss distribution and then a NSEW level with a litle slightly convex
scraper I made out of a plastic container lid I get an even and proper
dose for a single shot that pours very well. For doubles it's all
hands on from distribution to leveling and scraping off before tamp.
I used to tamp 50lbs + but lately I tamp until I just feel the dose
bottoming out on compression, seal with a little NSEW wiggle, polish
with about 10lbs and the pours seem much more even.
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 22:23:16
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Rocky grinder. How fine to grind ?
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mrgnomer@hotmail.com wrote:
>I also home roast and starting off I roasted almost everything light
>but slowly started going to the dark side. That could be one of the
>reasons for going finer- there's more oils still in bean with a light
>roast so more blooming would mean a coarser grind, reverse for dark
>roasts. Still, going finer with a Rocky over time seems to be a common
>thing for what ever reason.
>
I think that is in part to folks discovering that they are tamping
really too hard, and by using a lighter tamp and a finer grind the
taste of the espresso improves. I imagine that the burrs seat in/break
in/wear which would/might account for some of the change as well.
Randy "need a dose" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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