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Date: 08 Aug 2006 18:29:02
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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$50 off this week (according to the site)
go to http://www.coffeeroasting.com
Note: I am not affiliated with them in any way.
Lloyd
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 12:42:34
From: Zox
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <1155151942.171708.118300@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > > $50 off this week (according to the site)
> > > go to http://www.coffeeroasting.com
> >
> > I don't get it. Roasting involves high temperatures,
> > but their roaster is clearly made out of plastic.
>
> The roasting chamber and heat source isn't...
>
> Same for the FreshRoast and iRoast.
Not to poo-poo everything but there are limits to
coffee addiction. The day I put in an order for a roaster
is the day it's time to reform.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:07:06
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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"Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Not to poo-poo everything but there are limits to
>coffee addiction. The day I put in an order for a roaster
>is the day it's time to reform.
So, do you buy your meat pre-cooked? Unless you have a source for
fresh-roasted coffee that is TRULY fresh, you don't know what you are
missing. Green coffee will keep for a year but once roasted is good
for maybe ten days for espresso and about two weeks for other
methods. There are storage methods that can extend that, but just like
with meat, fresh is best.
If you drink it only for the caffeine addiction, then it really
doesn't matter, but if taste is important, try fresh. I give away
about 30-50 pounds of coffee a year (a guess). I give it to just about
everyone I meet- dors, receptionists, the guys at the pick 'n pull
wrecking yard, my physical therapists, friends, my tax accountant,
etc., etc. I can say that, virtually without exception, everyone
tells me that it is the best coffee they have ever had. The coffee I
use about 95% of the time is "sweep." It is mixed Arabica beans swept
ff the floor, leftovers in the bottom of bags, etc. Mostly good
quality commercial grade beans, but all mixed together. Why is it so
good? Because it is fresh!
There are a few notable exceptions- the Special Reserve Bourbon
Rwandan from Green Mountain was delicious beyond description. I will
never be able to duplicate that. But generally, for the cost, fresh
home roast is best.
Randy "haven't gone back" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:48:55
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <1155152554.532159.110340@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
"Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > In article <1155151942.171708.118300@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > > > $50 off this week (according to the site)
> > > > go to http://www.coffeeroasting.com
> > >
> > > I don't get it. Roasting involves high temperatures,
> > > but their roaster is clearly made out of plastic.
> >
> > The roasting chamber and heat source isn't...
> >
> > Same for the FreshRoast and iRoast.
>
> Not to poo-poo everything but there are limits to
> coffee addiction. The day I put in an order for a roaster
> is the day it's time to reform.
Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping distance
at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific flavors that
are in coffee that you've never tasted.
Home roasting is easy, quick and certainly no messier than running your
espresso machine.
But to each his own I guess.
Lloyd
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 01:19:20
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 14:48:55 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
>Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping distance
>at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific flavors that
>are in coffee that you've never tasted.
>
>Home roasting is easy, quick and certainly no messier than running your
>espresso machine.
>
>But to each his own I guess.
>
>Lloyd
Most Americans have excellent commercial roasters (or roaster outlets)
within a reasonable drive, subway ride or even a walk (in L.A. we have
all three). I've never seen a proper survey, but my sense from
alt.coffee is that more people home roast as a hobby for pleasure than
because they have no other way to get fresh coffee.
Marshall
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 01:46:03
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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I only found two commercial roasters in Vegas, and the espresso blends from
both were fairly awful. I spoke with one of them at length, and they seemed
to have little idea what they were doing.
I home roast, but not for the pleasure of the hobby, but for lack of local
alternatives, and economical reasons relating to biweekly mail order.
C
> Most Americans have excellent commercial roasters (or roaster outlets)
> within a reasonable drive, subway ride or even a walk (in L.A. we have
> all three). I've never seen a proper survey, but my sense from
> alt.coffee is that more people home roast as a hobby for pleasure than
> because they have no other way to get fresh coffee.
>
> Marshall
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:40:35
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <fu1ld29ba9tmskoom49td5vpcnke2v3gf0@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 14:48:55 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> >Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping distance
> >at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific flavors that
> >are in coffee that you've never tasted.
> >
> >Home roasting is easy, quick and certainly no messier than running your
> >espresso machine.
> >
> >But to each his own I guess.
> >
> >Lloyd
>
> Most Americans have excellent commercial roasters (or roaster outlets)
> within a reasonable drive, subway ride or even a walk (in L.A. we have
> all three). I've never seen a proper survey, but my sense from
> alt.coffee is that more people home roast as a hobby for pleasure than
> because they have no other way to get fresh coffee.
>
> Marshall
That may very well be true, but in St. Louis I was only able to find one
roaster. Even there wasn't close enough for me to make it a trip every
week or even every other week.
And just for the sake of argument, just because there is a roaster
within reasonable distance, doesn't mean there is one that is roasting
the beans you might want.
And yes, roasting is a hobby. A hobby with a heck of a side benefit. I
have more variety in my kitchen than I see anywhere close by.
BTW, a roaster outlet might not be selling very freshly roasted beans.
For instance, Gloria Jeans has plenty of coffee in open air bins and
can't even tell you when the beans were roasted.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 04:54:12
From: cschepers
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> That may very well be true, but in St. Louis I was only able to find one
> roaster. Even there wasn't close enough for me to make it a trip every
> week or even every other week.
Are you still in St. Louis? You can get beans from barry.. apparently
he's not half-bad. ;-) Kaldi's is ok too.
Chris
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:39:12
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <UZyCg.83023$FQ1.33068@attbi_s71 >,
cschepers <cschepers@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > That may very well be true, but in St. Louis I was only able to find one
> > roaster. Even there wasn't close enough for me to make it a trip every
> > week or even every other week.
>
> Are you still in St. Louis? You can get beans from barry.. apparently
> he's not half-bad. ;-) Kaldi's is ok too.
>
> Chris
I live about 2 hours outside of St. Louis, but I roast my own...
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 04:15:08
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:40:35 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>In article <fu1ld29ba9tmskoom49td5vpcnke2v3gf0@4ax.com>,
> Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 14:48:55 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
>> >Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping distance
>> >at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific flavors that
>> >are in coffee that you've never tasted.
>> >
>> >Home roasting is easy, quick and certainly no messier than running your
>> >espresso machine.
>> >
>> >But to each his own I guess.
>> >
>> >Lloyd
>>
>> Most Americans have excellent commercial roasters (or roaster outlets)
>> within a reasonable drive, subway ride or even a walk (in L.A. we have
>> all three). I've never seen a proper survey, but my sense from
>> alt.coffee is that more people home roast as a hobby for pleasure than
>> because they have no other way to get fresh coffee.
>>
>> Marshall
>
>That may very well be true, but in St. Louis I was only able to find one
>roaster. Even there wasn't close enough for me to make it a trip every
>week or even every other week.
How far was Fairview Heights?
Marshall
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:41:32
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <elcld2di8qm6a0ip23lqinhtgaj6ujpli8@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:40:35 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <fu1ld29ba9tmskoom49td5vpcnke2v3gf0@4ax.com>,
> > Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 14:48:55 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> >> >Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping distance
> >> >at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific flavors that
> >> >are in coffee that you've never tasted.
> >> >
> >> >Home roasting is easy, quick and certainly no messier than running your
> >> >espresso machine.
> >> >
> >> >But to each his own I guess.
> >> >
> >> >Lloyd
> >>
> >> Most Americans have excellent commercial roasters (or roaster outlets)
> >> within a reasonable drive, subway ride or even a walk (in L.A. we have
> >> all three). I've never seen a proper survey, but my sense from
> >> alt.coffee is that more people home roast as a hobby for pleasure than
> >> because they have no other way to get fresh coffee.
> >>
> >> Marshall
> >
> >That may very well be true, but in St. Louis I was only able to find one
> >roaster. Even there wasn't close enough for me to make it a trip every
> >week or even every other week.
>
> How far was Fairview Heights?
>
> Marshall
About 1.5 hours normally, now with massive road construction, a bit
longer.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:29:03
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:47:13
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:29:03 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 09:50:09
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 15:40:45
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:50:09 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 16:06:30
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <fqsrd2dbnefn855trciihe2jip8219jn9m@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:50:09 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
> Ross) wrote:
>
> >
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 22:46:53
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:06:30 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>> The market area for roasters may be much wider than you realize. Zoka
>> sells in Southern California. Intelligentsia sells in Detroit and
>> Boston. Gimme sells all over the Northeast. (just to name a vert few
>> of many).
>>
>> People who are serious about coffee are opening shops in small towns.
>> They read the Internet and are aware of which roasters have the best
>> reputations. You can hear them on Portafilter.net talking about their
>> relationships with them. You just have to ask when they usually get
>> their deliveries, and you've got a source of great, fresh coffee.
>>
>> Marshall
>
>I notice you left out the midwest. ;-)
????
Marshall
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 18:18:05
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <1hmsd216c1lr320adu9d5jpfgu4fd7o32u@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:06:30 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >> The market area for roasters may be much wider than you realize. Zoka
> >> sells in Southern California. Intelligentsia sells in Detroit and
> >> Boston. Gimme sells all over the Northeast. (just to name a vert few
> >> of many).
> >>
> >> People who are serious about coffee are opening shops in small towns.
> >> They read the Internet and are aware of which roasters have the best
> >> reputations. You can hear them on Portafilter.net talking about their
> >> relationships with them. You just have to ask when they usually get
> >> their deliveries, and you've got a source of great, fresh coffee.
> >>
> >> Marshall
> >
> >I notice you left out the midwest. ;-)
>
> ????
> Marshall
Why a question? You were pointing out lots of places and parts of the
country to get fresh roasted coffee and left out a huge space in the
middle...
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 08:39:31
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 14:48:11
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:39:31 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 00:05:43
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 18:08:31
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:44dfba77.9292662@localhost...
>
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 08:24:55
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:38:52
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:05:43 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 12:48:25
From: Mike Garner
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <44dede1c.130982863@localhost >, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu
says...
> Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 14:44:10
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:48:25 GMT, Mike Garner <coffee_snood@quar.net >
wrote:
>Exactly. People who aren't from Texas, just don't understand how *big*
>of a state this is.
Californians have a pretty good idea. Ask Randy Glass.
> What speciality roasters there are in the state,
>just aren't close to many folks. I live in a Dallas suburb, so by using
>Marshall's example, I should be able to find a roaster in the area.
Not necessarily. I included roaster outlets. First you'd need to talk
to the coffee shops in your area and find out who supplies tham and
when. Second, I only claimed that most people in the country had such
access. 49% might not.
Remember I was originally responding to Lloyd Parsons, when he wrote
"Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping
distance at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific
flavors that are in coffee that you've never tasted." He seemed to
imply that not being " within a day or two's shipping distance at
reasonable cost" was the norm. I think many people are simply unaware
of how much good roasted coffee is available to them.
>I know of about two. (Corroborated with coffeereview.com, thanks.) By
>the time I get to either, it's an hour drive without traffic. Yes,
>Dallas is spread out that much.
Again, I would call them and find out who they wholesale to that is
more convenient.
>What Marshall seems to be forgetting is that in a large part of the
>midwest, south, and southwest, big cities aren't necessarily the major
>population centers, as a great number of us are in more rural areas.
Right. Everyone's on their ranch clearing brush. But, wait! 5,161,544
in Dallas-Ft. Worth-Arlington MSA and 4,715,407 in
Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land. That's half the population of Texas. 63.5%
of Texans live in just the top 5 MSA's (out of 25). And that was 6
years ago. Lots more now. Sounds a lot like much of the rest of the
country.
http://txsdc.utsa.edu/tpepp/2004projections/2004_txpopprj_msatotnum.php
The thing most people remark on when they drive across the U.S.A. is
how concentrated the population is and how vast the empty or
nearly-empty areas are. This is a very urbanized country.
Marshall
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 13:25:35
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <iscud2hi9r74jhke98ad1gll5sa7ejvig0@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:48:25 GMT, Mike Garner <coffee_snood@quar.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Exactly. People who aren't from Texas, just don't understand how *big*
> >of a state this is.
>
> Californians have a pretty good idea. Ask Randy Glass.
>
> > What speciality roasters there are in the state,
> >just aren't close to many folks. I live in a Dallas suburb, so by using
> >Marshall's example, I should be able to find a roaster in the area.
>
> Not necessarily. I included roaster outlets. First you'd need to talk
> to the coffee shops in your area and find out who supplies tham and
> when. Second, I only claimed that most people in the country had such
> access. 49% might not.
>
But how old is the stuff at the outlets? Is it really fresh or is it a
bit old.
> Remember I was originally responding to Lloyd Parsons, when he wrote
> "Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping
> distance at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific
> flavors that are in coffee that you've never tasted." He seemed to
> imply that not being " within a day or two's shipping distance at
> reasonable cost" was the norm. I think many people are simply unaware
> of how much good roasted coffee is available to them.
>
If people are unaware then the roasters aren't doing a very good job of
getting the info out are they?
> >I know of about two. (Corroborated with coffeereview.com, thanks.) By
> >the time I get to either, it's an hour drive without traffic. Yes,
> >Dallas is spread out that much.
>
> Again, I would call them and find out who they wholesale to that is
> more convenient.
>
Again bringing in the issue of freshness.
> >What Marshall seems to be forgetting is that in a large part of the
> >midwest, south, and southwest, big cities aren't necessarily the major
> >population centers, as a great number of us are in more rural areas.
>
> Right. Everyone's on their ranch clearing brush. But, wait! 5,161,544
> in Dallas-Ft. Worth-Arlington MSA and 4,715,407 in
> Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land. That's half the population of Texas. 63.5%
> of Texans live in just the top 5 MSA's (out of 25). And that was 6
> years ago. Lots more now. Sounds a lot like much of the rest of the
> country.
> http://txsdc.utsa.edu/tpepp/2004projections/2004_txpopprj_msatotnum.php
>
> The thing most people remark on when they drive across the U.S.A. is
> how concentrated the population is and how vast the empty or
> nearly-empty areas are. This is a very urbanized country.
>
> Marshall
True, the cities do hold a larger proportion of the population. But
even in some cities, drive time is an issue because of congestion and
sheer size that some cities sprawl out to. I don't go into the city
very much because it is such a pita. Last time I was in Chicago they
were doing traffic reports on Sunday night because they are always so
jammed up there. Add in the construction that seems to be going on with
nearly every major highway and a road trip just isn't the fun it used to
be.
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 18:42:32
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:25:35 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>> Remember I was originally responding to Lloyd Parsons, when he wrote
>> "Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping
>> distance at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific
>> flavors that are in coffee that you've never tasted." He seemed to
>> imply that not being " within a day or two's shipping distance at
>> reasonable cost" was the norm. I think many people are simply unaware
>> of how much good roasted coffee is available to them.
>>
>If people are unaware then the roasters aren't doing a very good job of
>getting the info out are they?
It's tricky. Some independent coffee shops proudly announce on signs
that "We serve ______," others will tell you if you ask, while others
keep it a secret. The roasters don't always know how their coffee shop
accounts feel about it and are not likely to advertise the
relationship without permission.
Sometimes it's a branding issue (the shops don't want to promote
another brand), and sometimes the shops just want to keep a free hand
to change roasters without alarming their customers. Some shop owners
also feel they maintain a little more bargaining leverage it they
haven't publicly tied their destiny to a single roaster.
Restaurant accounts are somewhat different, as no one thinks they
roast their own. Intelligtentsia, for example, proudly announces that
Charlie Trotter's serves their coffee.
Marshall
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 14:27:12
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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In article <u0sud29l7p7k82qfbb4t1e6n702af66s06@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:25:35 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >> Remember I was originally responding to Lloyd Parsons, when he wrote
> >> "Then unless you have a roaster within a day or two's shipping
> >> distance at reasonable cost, you'll be missing out on some terrific
> >> flavors that are in coffee that you've never tasted." He seemed to
> >> imply that not being " within a day or two's shipping distance at
> >> reasonable cost" was the norm. I think many people are simply unaware
> >> of how much good roasted coffee is available to them.
> >>
> >If people are unaware then the roasters aren't doing a very good job of
> >getting the info out are they?
>
> It's tricky. Some independent coffee shops proudly announce on signs
> that "We serve ______," others will tell you if you ask, while others
> keep it a secret. The roasters don't always know how their coffee shop
> accounts feel about it and are not likely to advertise the
> relationship without permission.
>
> Sometimes it's a branding issue (the shops don't want to promote
> another brand), and sometimes the shops just want to keep a free hand
> to change roasters without alarming their customers. Some shop owners
> also feel they maintain a little more bargaining leverage it they
> haven't publicly tied their destiny to a single roaster.
>
> Restaurant accounts are somewhat different, as no one thinks they
> roast their own. Intelligtentsia, for example, proudly announces that
> Charlie Trotter's serves their coffee.
>
> Marshall
There's the rub, huh?
Around here, the coffee shops are not very informative. They do sell
beans, but if you ask them for roast date, the best you can get is when
they received it. They don't really know.
Is that generally true? And if so, we are now back to where do you get
your FRESH beans? Looks more and more like internet/mail order, doesn't
it?
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 19:49:18
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:27:12 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>In article <u0sud29l7p7k82qfbb4t1e6n702af66s06@4ax.com>,
>Around here, the coffee shops are not very informative. They do sell
>beans, but if you ask them for roast date, the best you can get is when
>they received it. They don't really know.
>
>Is that generally true?
Yes.
>And if so, we are now back to where do you get
>your FRESH beans? Looks more and more like internet/mail order, doesn't
>it?
The first important question is "WHO roasts their beans?" The kinds of
roasters we've been talking about here usually get them out within a
day of roasting, often same day. Delivery can be anywhere from same
day to two or three days later, depending on distance and other
variables. I don't even touch my beans for espresso until 3 days after
roasting (maybe 2 for drip), so this wouldn't be a major issue for me.
Marshall
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 16:09:22
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
In article <i30vd25nvp903aios6b9t63peel68tv12k@4ax.com >,
Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:27:12 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <u0sud29l7p7k82qfbb4t1e6n702af66s06@4ax.com>,
>
> >Around here, the coffee shops are not very informative. They do sell
> >beans, but if you ask them for roast date, the best you can get is when
> >they received it. They don't really know.
> >
> >Is that generally true?
>
> Yes.
>
> >And if so, we are now back to where do you get
> >your FRESH beans? Looks more and more like internet/mail order, doesn't
> >it?
>
> The first important question is "WHO roasts their beans?" The kinds of
> roasters we've been talking about here usually get them out within a
> day of roasting, often same day. Delivery can be anywhere from same
> day to two or three days later, depending on distance and other
> variables. I don't even touch my beans for espresso until 3 days after
> roasting (maybe 2 for drip), so this wouldn't be a major issue for me.
>
> Marshall
My head is spinning! ;-)
So to get fresh we need to find a supplier locally. This might be an
outlet that either can't or won't tell us who the roaster is, doesn't
know or won't say the roast date and isn't advertising very well to get
the word out.
OR
We can order roasted from a trusted roaster online or get green beans
and roast our own. Or if we are lucky enough, we can go into a local
roaster and buy freshly roasted coffee.
Does that just about cover it??? ;-)
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 00:01:37
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:09:22 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>In article <i30vd25nvp903aios6b9t63peel68tv12k@4ax.com>,
> Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>My head is spinning! ;-)
>
>So to get fresh we need to find a supplier locally. This might be an
>outlet that either can't or won't tell us who the roaster is, doesn't
>know or won't say the roast date and isn't advertising very well to get
>the word out.
Don't use that retailer.
>OR
>
>We can order roasted from a trusted roaster online or get green beans
>and roast our own. Or if we are lucky enough, we can go into a local
>roaster and buy freshly roasted coffee.
Yes.
>Does that just about cover it??? ;-)
No. You left out the coffee shops I was recommending. The ones who buy
from good roasters, will tell you who they are and when they get their
deliveries. Lots of those around (but not enough!).
Marshall
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 00:46:57
From: Mike Garner
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
In article <b3fvd29s5ontbhq5b0am64lto6c80gfqh1@4ax.com >,
mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net says...
> No. You left out the coffee shops I was recommending. The ones who buy
> from good roasters, will tell you who they are and when they get their
> deliveries. Lots of those around (but not enough!).
>
> Marshall
>
Well, Marshall, tell you what. I'll make this easy and narrow the
disucssion down. Since you're obviously the expert here, why don't you
locate at least three coffeeshops (not serving *$ or Seattle's Best) or
roasters in the 30 mile radius surrounding the zip code of 75028 (which
happens to be one of the biggest suburbs of Dallas).
Once you've done that, I'll personally call them and find out if the
engage in retail sales and just how fresh that coffee is.
Mike
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:38:08
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:46:57 GMT, Mike Garner <coffee_snood@quar.net >
wrote:
>In article <b3fvd29s5ontbhq5b0am64lto6c80gfqh1@4ax.com>,
>mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net says...
>
>> No. You left out the coffee shops I was recommending. The ones who buy
>> from good roasters, will tell you who they are and when they get their
>> deliveries. Lots of those around (but not enough!).
>>
>> Marshall
>>
>
>
>Well, Marshall, tell you what. I'll make this easy and narrow the
>disucssion down. Since you're obviously the expert here, why don't you
>locate at least three coffeeshops (not serving *$ or Seattle's Best) or
>roasters in the 30 mile radius surrounding the zip code of 75028 (which
>happens to be one of the biggest suburbs of Dallas).
>
>Once you've done that, I'll personally call them and find out if the
>engage in retail sales and just how fresh that coffee is.
>
>Mike
That's your job, not mine. But, I'll give you a head start. Bill
McAlpin owns one of the greatest coffee estates in the world, "La
Minita" in Costa Rica. He also owns Distant Lands Coffee Roaster in
Tyler. I'd give them a call and see who they sell to locally and what
their mail order arrangements are.
11754 State Highway 64 West
Tyler, Texas 75704-9493
(800) 346-5459 Toll Free
Marshall
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 12:47:53
From: Mike Garner
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
In article <oq20e25ru2se4llc54ie5mnugembq5p13o@4ax.com >,
mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net says...
> That's your job, not mine. But, I'll give you a head start. Bill
> McAlpin owns one of the greatest coffee estates in the world, "La
> Minita" in Costa Rica. He also owns Distant Lands Coffee Roaster in
> Tyler. I'd give them a call and see who they sell to locally and what
> their mail order arrangements are.
>
> 11754 State Highway 64 West
> Tyler, Texas 75704-9493
> (800) 346-5459 Toll Free
>
> Marshall
>
How is it my job? It's your arguement, not mine. I know what's here.
I'll call Bill and find out, but in the mean time, I'll tell you this.
I've lived in DFW most of my life and I've been in this hobby for close
to ten years now. While I'm aware of three roasters in the area,
they're all at least an hour's drive. Not to mention that every single
one of them sells coffee at 100% more than it costs for me to order
green, including shipping.
I understand your arguement and if I lived next to Intelly or Counter
Culture, I'd absoultely love to just stop in and pick up what I need.
Simple fact is that well over half of the us isn't fortunate to have
that available.
I understand that you gave up on home roasting, but don't underestimate
those of us that have put in the time to hone our skills. Even if I'm
only getting 95% of what's in the bean, it's still better than the
alternative.
Mike
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 15:23:29
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:47:53 GMT, Mike Garner <coffee_snood@quar.net >
wrote:
>I understand your arguement and if I lived next to Intelly or Counter
>Culture, I'd absoultely love to just stop in and pick up what I need.
>Simple fact is that well over half of the us isn't fortunate to have
>that available.
Obviously it isn't a simple fact. It's a debatable proposition, at
least until the U.S. Census Bureau decides to devote the manpower to
survey fresh roasted coffee accessibility .
>I understand that you gave up on home roasting, but don't underestimate
>those of us that have put in the time to hone our skills. Even if I'm
>only getting 95% of what's in the bean, it's still better than the
>alternative.
I think home roasting is a wonderful hobby with endless possibilities
for creative investigation. I'm fortunate enough to have several home
roasting friends who send me their handiwork from time to time.
I also acknowledge it is a necessity for many people. I spent three
years in a small, remote city that was a culinary desert (but now is a
culinary hot spot, including coffee).
What I object to (probably too frequently), is: "Welcome to
alt.coffee. Now you'll have to home roast, because we're sure you have
no other options."
Marshall
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 19:23:04
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
Marshall writes:
> What I object to (probably too frequently), is: "Welcome to
> alt.coffee. Now you'll have to home roast, because we're sure
> you have no other options."
It's a stance that emphasizes freshness, and it suggests that home
roasting is easy. I'm sure I'll do it someday, but not this year or
next ... I remember Randy's story about giving away poppers and not
getting any feedback. Maybe the recipients got bad results??
Felix
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 17:48:25
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:50:09 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>
>I still don't buy it. The top 10 US cities combined have only around 10% of
>the nation's population; the US is pretty spread-out. It is easy to lose
>perspective when you live in a big coastal city.
>
>Even if we expand to "metropolitan statistical areas" - ie, include suburbs
>and other nearby regions - and include the top *25* such MSAs, we get only
>122 million people, far from half the current US population.
But, you'll totally lose perspective of what "urban" is, if you stop
at the top 25. Heavily built up Santa Barbara - Santa Maria (400,000
people in 2000) clocks in at lowly #114. Not to mention Silicon
Valley, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Orlando, and
New Orleans (pre-Katrina), which you've also chucked out.
Marshall
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 12:32:22
From: Zox
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> $50 off this week (according to the site)
> go to http://www.coffeeroasting.com
I don't get it. Roasting involves high temperatures,
but their roaster is clearly made out of plastic.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:36:47
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
In article <1155151942.171708.118300@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com >,
"Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > $50 off this week (according to the site)
> > go to http://www.coffeeroasting.com
>
> I don't get it. Roasting involves high temperatures,
> but their roaster is clearly made out of plastic.
The roasting chamber and heat source isn't...
Same for the FreshRoast and iRoast.
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 16:54:26
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
Lloyd Parsons asks:
> > ????
> > Marshall
>
> Why a question? You were pointing out lots of places and
> parts of the country to get fresh roasted coffee and left
> out a huge space in the middle...
According to http://www.visitdetroit.com/tourprofessionals ...
"There may not be another Midwest city so rich in heritage and so
unique in things to see and do than metro Detroit. Detroit is the
Midwest's oldest big city [...]"
Felix
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 18:58:06
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
In article <1155426866.183820.163250@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons asks:
> > > ????
> > > Marshall
> >
> > Why a question? You were pointing out lots of places and
> > parts of the country to get fresh roasted coffee and left
> > out a huge space in the middle...
>
> According to http://www.visitdetroit.com/tourprofessionals ...
>
> "There may not be another Midwest city so rich in heritage and so
> unique in things to see and do than metro Detroit. Detroit is the
> Midwest's oldest big city [...]"
>
>
> Felix
Well of course THEY'D say that! ;-)
But it is well north of most of the midwest, not quite driving distance
for the vast majority of those that live in the midwest.
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 00:39:38
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:58:06 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:
>In article <1155426866.183820.163250@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lloyd Parsons asks:
>> > > ????
>> > > Marshall
>> >
>> > Why a question? You were pointing out lots of places and
>> > parts of the country to get fresh roasted coffee and left
>> > out a huge space in the middle...
>>
>> According to http://www.visitdetroit.com/tourprofessionals ...
>>
>> "There may not be another Midwest city so rich in heritage and so
>> unique in things to see and do than metro Detroit. Detroit is the
>> Midwest's oldest big city [...]"
>>
>>
>> Felix
>
>Well of course THEY'D say that! ;-)
>
>But it is well north of most of the midwest, not quite driving distance
>for the vast majority of those that live in the midwest.
You've also banished Chicago (Intelligentsia) from your personal
Midwest. Intelly sells all over the Midwest. Other top M-W roasters
include alt.coffee's own Barry Jarrett (Riley's - St. Louis environs),
The Roasterie (Kansas City), Paradise Roasters (Minn.), PT's (Topeka),
and Alterra (Milwaukee). Check out coffeereview.com. Bet you'll find a
bunch of great roasters you never heard of.
Marshall
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:47:07
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
"the guys at the pick 'n pull wrecking yard," =
noted coffe conosewers!
Randy G. wrote:
> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Not to poo-poo everything but there are limits to
> >coffee addiction. The day I put in an order for a roaster
> >is the day it's time to reform.
>
> So, do you buy your meat pre-cooked? Unless you have a source for
> fresh-roasted coffee that is TRULY fresh, you don't know what you are
> missing. Green coffee will keep for a year but once roasted is good
> for maybe ten days for espresso and about two weeks for other
> methods. There are storage methods that can extend that, but just like
> with meat, fresh is best.
>
> If you drink it only for the caffeine addiction, then it really
> doesn't matter, but if taste is important, try fresh. I give away
> about 30-50 pounds of coffee a year (a guess). I give it to just about
> everyone I meet- dors, receptionists, the guys at the pick 'n pull
> wrecking yard, my physical therapists, friends, my tax accountant,
> etc., etc. I can say that, virtually without exception, everyone
> tells me that it is the best coffee they have ever had. The coffee I
> use about 95% of the time is "sweep." It is mixed Arabica beans swept
> ff the floor, leftovers in the bottom of bags, etc. Mostly good
> quality commercial grade beans, but all mixed together. Why is it so
> good? Because it is fresh!
>
> There are a few notable exceptions- the Special Reserve Bourbon
> Rwandan from Green Mountain was delicious beyond description. I will
> never be able to duplicate that. But generally, for the cost, fresh
> home roast is best.
>
> Randy "haven't gone back" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 10:45:01
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
Marshall writes:
> You just have to ask when they usually get their deliveries,
> and you've got a source of great, fresh coffee.
I suppose that must work sometimes, somewhere ... Working a few blocks
from Intelligentsia's Monadnock store, and riding the train past
Metropolis ten times a week, it's easy for me to buy good, fresh beans.
On the other hand, though Intelligentsia's presence at O'Hare airport
may have been an extreme example of the pitfalls of selling wholesale
quantities, it should remind us that there's a significant difference
between buying directly from the roaster and buying from one of its
resellers. Sometimes, the retailer buys from a distributor. As the
pipeline grows longer, the roaster loses control.
In other words, knowing when the deliveries arrive isn't enough. I know
you believe that roast dates would help, but I think they would force
these businesses into an unsustainable mode.
Buying roasted beans requires effort, even if you live/work where I do.
Felix
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 20:57:10
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
Marshall writes:
> >Even if we expand to "metropolitan statistical areas" - ie,
> >include suburbs and other nearby regions - and include the
> >top *25* such MSAs, we get only 122 million people, far from
> >half the current US population.
>
> But, you'll totally lose perspective of what "urban" is, if you
> stop at the top 25. Heavily built up [...]
Population distribution is relevant only if it's correlated with the
distribution of retailers selling good, roasted beans. I'm skeptical,
partly because Chicago's MSA is so large. It includes parts of Indiana
and Wisconsin, yet my experience within the city supports my claim that
buying directly from the roaster is significantly better than buying
from a reseller. I'd be very surprised if there are better resellers in
the suburbs.
Admittedly, the situation in Chicago might be atypical because of its
large size, but I'm also familiar with Boston. Its MSA includes Lowell,
which we discussed recently. The fourth largest city in Massachusetts
doesn't even have a Starbucks, and people in that MSA periodically drop
in asking for sources ...
Send me $30 and I'll send you two pounds of Intelligentsia beans, one
from Monadnock and one from a reseller. USPS Priority Mail. I'll throw
in a tin of Stewart's :-)
Felix
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 08:41:06
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Sale on Zach & Dani's roaster
|
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