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Date: 06 Jun 2006 05:24:19
From: bearljensen
Subject: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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After cleaning Silvia w/ Cafiza and pulling about 12 great shots in
succession, suddenly I can't get more than a dribble coming out through
an empty portafilter. The water heats on normal "on" mode, and the
wand still works fine, both for steam and for hot water. Suggestions?
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 07:55:59
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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"bearljensen" <bearljensen@hotmail.com > wrote:
>After cleaning Silvia w/ Cafiza and pulling about 12 great shots in
>succession, suddenly I can't get more than a dribble coming out through
>an empty portafilter. The water heats on normal "on" mode, and the
>wand still works fine, both for steam and for hot water. Suggestions?
>
I will take a shot at this [sorry]:
Turn on the brew switch and check the following two things:
either..
1) Is there water coming out of the 2-way vale, filling up the drip
tray
- or -
2) remove the top of the water tank, lift up the SHORT water hose and
see if water is coming out of that hose.
- and -
3) the volume of water pumped through the wand is greater than that
coming out of the brewhead (cc per ten seconds).
If "1" then the 3-way is not properly functioning or if "2" then there
is a clog or blockage in the brew path.
Randy "???" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 21:41:38
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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Answered this one on GG. Blocked solenoid or dead coil.
--
Alan
alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 15:34:08
From: bearljensen
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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Thanks guys. I'll check the solenoid this evening.
Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
> Answered this one on GG. Blocked solenoid or dead coil.
>
>
> --
> Alan
>
> alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
> www.coffeeco.com.au
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 10:10:10
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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And why were you using Cafiza ?? --
and Rg means "3 way valve."
use Cleancaf or other DESCALING AGENT -- and don't backflush -- ever.
Dave
76 Silvias DONE!
bearljensen wrote:
> After cleaning Silvia w/ Cafiza and pulling about 12 great shots in
> succession, suddenly I can't get more than a dribble coming out through
> an empty portafilter. The water heats on normal "on" mode, and the
> wand still works fine, both for steam and for hot water. Suggestions?
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 05:23:00
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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If AC has been over this and over this already, just ignore me, but...
Does anyone have a definitive answer about backflushing Silvia? I note
that Dave (above) says never do it and Rancilio advises against it but
tons of people do it all the time and their machines seem to suffer no
ill effects.
So what's the story? And if one is not to backflush, how is one to
remove from the 3-way and the lines the gunk that one gets out by
backflushing? Just leave it there? How tasty is that?
Still learning. Always learning.
Will
"The human capacity to try weird stuff with their machines is nearly
boundless"
bearljensen wrote:
> Thanks guys. I'll check the solenoid this evening.
>
> Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
> > Answered this one on GG. Blocked solenoid or dead coil.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alan
> >
> > alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
> > www.coffeeco.com.au
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 09:05:05
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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"Omniryx@gmail.com" <Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote:
>If AC has been over this and over this already, just ignore me, but...
>
We have been all over this issue, but it is still worth addressing...
>Does anyone have a definitive answer about backflushing Silvia? I note
>that Dave (above) says never do it and Rancilio advises against it but
>tons of people do it all the time and their machines seem to suffer no
>ill effects.
>
There is not a 'definitive' answer. Rancilio "officially" (whatever
that is) does not recommend it so that they do not have to be liable
for the idiots who will turn on the pump and walk away from the
machine. Virtually every new commercial machine comes with a blank
filter basket or backflush disc so that the machine can be maintained.
Additionally, there has only been ONE (and only one) report of a
machine being damaged in any way by backflushing in the 5.5 years I
have been on this list.
Remember that when backflushing the machine is merely working at it's
pre-determined maximum load which is regulated by the bypass valve in
the boiler. The pressure is reached and the water is pumped back into
the water reservoir through the second hose (the shorter one).
The only difference between backflushing and choking the machine
(grinding so fine that no water gets through the coffee puck) is that
with the puck there is a slight amount of absorption of the initial
pressure flow of the water. With a blind filter the water hammer
effect causes a faster opening of the safety bypass valve and a faster
rise in the water pressure. The difference between these two
situations as far as the machine is concerned is quite minimal.
There are two 'main' dangers to backflushing:
1) It can blow out the boiler gasket which is an O ring trapped
between the brewhead (base of the boiler) ad the boiler's body which
contains the heating element. This O ring is well trapped between
these two halves of the assembly and if it blows out I maintain that
it was faulty and about to fail anyway.
2) The pump can theoretically be damaged if it is left running with
the blank portafilter in place. These pumps are designed as
intermittent duty devices and are not meant to run at full capacity
for twenty or thirty minutes or more as might happen if some
unthinking person was operating it. Even so, they are merely an
electromagnet operating a piston and based on reports here, pumps that
fail in this procedure are damaged by being operated without water. It
is the O rings and other parts of the pump assembly itself that fail.
>So what's the story? And if one is not to backflush, how is one to
>remove from the 3-way and the lines the gunk that one gets out by
>backflushing? Just leave it there? How tasty is that?
>
The 3-way valve can be disassembled, and the steps are here:
http://member.newsguy.com/~jenkins/silvia/
Backflushing steps on my website at:
http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/HowToBackflush.html
But cleaning that assembly is just one part of the job. There are
paths in the brewhead that will not get cleansed if the disassembly of
the 3-way is the only cleaning procedure that is done.
>Still learning. Always learning.
>
I recently used Urnex Cafiza to backflush. This was the first time I
used that product (I had used two other brands previously). I highly
recommend Cafiza. It works really well, and you can actually use less
of it, so the additional cost is offset. And it works great!
Randy "ya I do" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 12:37:19
From:
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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Altura Coffee, the New Zealand agents for Rancilio, supply instructions
that are sealed in behind Rancilio tape in the box with the Silvia.
These instructions detail a back-flushing procedure. So I hope they
will cover any damage that occurs due to back-flushing (within the
warranty period) as long as those instructions are followed. Oh yes,
they also include a back-flushing disc, so as far as I can tell these
guys have no issues with back-flushing the Silvia.
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 21:36:11
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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>So I hope they
>will cover any damage that occurs due to back-flushing (within the
>warranty period) as long as those instructions are followed.
Altura might. Rancilio won't.
--
Alan
alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 20:32:18
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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jswright@paradise.net.nz wrote in news:1149795439.414514.3830
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
> Altura Coffee, the New Zealand agents for Rancilio, supply instructions
> that are sealed in behind Rancilio tape in the box with the Silvia.
> These instructions detail a back-flushing procedure. So I hope they
> will cover any damage that occurs due to back-flushing (within the
> warranty period) as long as those instructions are followed. Oh yes,
> they also include a back-flushing disc, so as far as I can tell these
> guys have no issues with back-flushing the Silvia.
>
Here in the U.S., where liability litigation is king, companies are forced
to put nonsensical things in operating instructions just to cover their
butts. Backflushing has a risk of splashing hot water on the operator if
care isn't taken. I wonder what liability issues WLL, etc., might have if
someone is burned using one of the blind disks they sell?
Robert (couldn't be a lawyer - knew who my father was) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
Remove "Z" to reply via email.
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 14:37:00
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>jswright@paradise.net.nz wrote in news:1149795439.414514.3830
>@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Altura Coffee, the New Zealand agents for Rancilio, supply instructions
>> that are sealed in behind Rancilio tape in the box with the Silvia.
>> These instructions detail a back-flushing procedure. So I hope they
>> will cover any damage that occurs due to back-flushing (within the
>> warranty period) as long as those instructions are followed. Oh yes,
>> they also include a back-flushing disc, so as far as I can tell these
>> guys have no issues with back-flushing the Silvia.
>>
>
>Here in the U.S., where liability litigation is king, companies are forced
>to put nonsensical things in operating instructions just to cover their
>butts. Backflushing has a risk of splashing hot water on the operator if
>care isn't taken. I wonder what liability issues WLL, etc., might have if
>someone is burned using one of the blind disks they sell?
>
I wonder...?
backflushing is only done to machines that have 3-way valves. When the
brew switch is turned to the off position, the 3-way relieves pressure
from the brew path. Thus, when the PF is removed there is no pressure
behind the blind filter to speak of so the possibility of spraying hot
water is virtually zero. When the pump is on, it is virtually
impossible to remove a properly tightened PF. In all other situations
that come to mind (ie. brewing espresso, blank shot to clean screen,
etc.) backflushing is no more (and possibly less) a personal injury
liability than any other function of an espresso machine. It would
seem that there is far more danger with the steam wand pumping steam
and hot water than would be presented by the backflushing process.
Randy "my opinion what is mine and what it is" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 13:03:10
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Silvia won't pull water for shot. Help!
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jswright@paradise.net.nz wrote:
>Altura Coffee, the New Zealand agents for Rancilio, supply instructions
>that are sealed in behind Rancilio tape in the box with the Silvia.
>These instructions detail a back-flushing procedure. So I hope they
>will cover any damage that occurs due to back-flushing (within the
>warranty period) as long as those instructions are followed. Oh yes,
>they also include a back-flushing disc, so as far as I can tell these
>guys have no issues with back-flushing the Silvia.
>
It seems to be the importer's discretion as to whether they wish to
support the practice. In the US, the importer's comments seem to
indicate that they will not warranty a fault casued by backflushing as
to is often repeated by resellers. What remains is that there is no
way to tell whether a customer has damaged the machine by backflushing
other than the customer sent the machine for serivce with the blind
portafilter still in place...
It would seem that NZ residents would be more responsible than
American consumers with their machines, but that isn't really saying
much. Unfortunately, I live in a country where a person who put a
fresh, hot cup of coffee in her crotch and got burned successfully
sued [ya, ya, I know about the oid.. blah blah blah]. Worse yet, the
bath anti-slip mats say "THIS SIDE DOWN" on the face of the mat with
the suction cups. At this point I am only suprised that firearms don't
have "HOLD OTHER END" engraved at the muzzle end of the barrel.
Randy "how did we survive?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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