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Main
Date: 24 Jul 2006 19:35:53
From: Randy G.
Subject: Speaking of lever machines...
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Speaking of lever machines...
I recently typed of the MD to whom I gifted a jar of coffee. To
refresh your memory, he had mentioned that he liked Turkish, so I
roasted a batch of an Indonesian with some Tanzanian peaberry to an
active second and ground it about 4 clicks finer than I do for
espresso. Mind you, I have never made Turkish and everything I did was
all just a wild guess based on what I had on hand and some research on
the net.
I got a reply from him through the receptionist. He said that for
Turkish it was a bit too dark-roasted and it didn't float [needed to
be ground finer...? I am guessing..]. He also has a La Pavoni lever
machine of which he is very proud. He used the coffee in that and he
said.. and I quote, "It was the best espresso I have ever had."
And although it is not news for most of you. The moral is, start with
fresh coffee!
For the Turkish, I would only guess that the coffee was too dark
because the Turkish coffee is traditionally (or at least,
historically) pan roasted so the inside of the bean is usually less
roasted than the outside which creates a blend of the acidic light
roast innards and the much darker roasted outer portions of the
bean.....? I suppose I will have to hit the import store and find a
nice Ibrick to figure it out for myself. ;-)
Randy "ibrick... Do YOU brick?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 01:42:48
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Randy G." wrote
> Speaking of lever machines...
>
> I recently typed of the MD to whom I gifted a jar of coffee. To
> refresh your memory, he had mentioned that he liked Turkish, so I
> roasted a batch of an Indonesian with some Tanzanian peaberry to an
> active second and ground it about 4 clicks finer than I do for
> espresso. Mind you, I have never made Turkish and everything I did was
> all just a wild guess based on what I had on hand and some research on
> the net.
>
> I got a reply from him through the receptionist. He said that for
> Turkish it was a bit too dark-roasted and it didn't float [needed to
> be ground finer...? I am guessing..]. He also has a La Pavoni lever
> machine of which he is very proud. He used the coffee in that and he
> said.. and I quote, "It was the best espresso I have ever had."
>
> And although it is not news for most of you. The moral is, start with
> fresh coffee!
>
> For the Turkish, I would only guess that the coffee was too dark
> because the Turkish coffee is traditionally (or at least,
> historically) pan roasted so the inside of the bean is usually less
> roasted than the outside which creates a blend of the acidic light
> roast innards and the much darker roasted outer portions of the
> bean.....? I suppose I will have to hit the import store and find a
> nice Ibrick to figure it out for myself. ;-)
As for the degree of roasting, although there are some that prefer it dark,
Turkish style coffee is traditionally made from a sort of medium dark roast
(sorry I can't describe it better). Interestingly enough, my favorite
coffee-roaster in Cairo referred to the darker roasts as "American-style".
As for the grind, it should be almost like flour.
I'm puzzled by your friend's comment that it didn't "float" ---- the grounds
should NOT float. They should sink to the bottom. Perhaps he was referring
to the fact that there was no "crema" floating on the top. Not
surprisingly, this crema --- referred to in Egypt as "al-wesh" (literally
"the face") --- is considered to be an indication of a well-made cup . . .
To bore you even further, although I'm sure you know what kind of pot to use
for Turkish coffee, "ibrik" is really the wrong word.
An "ibrik" is usually a long-spouted pitcher, not suitable for coffee-making
at all. The Turkish coffee pot is called "cezve" (pronounced "jezve" ) in
Turkish --- it's also commonly known as a "kanaka" in Arabic (pictures
posted on alt.binaries.coffee)
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 22:14:52
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
>As for the degree of roasting, although there are some that prefer it dark,
>Turkish style coffee is traditionally made from a sort of medium dark roast
>(sorry I can't describe it better). Interestingly enough, my favorite
>coffee-roaster in Cairo referred to the darker roasts as "American-style".
>
If my previous roast and my MD's comments are any indication, I would
say it should be roasted to just at or possibly an instant before the
first clicks of second crack at the darkest.
> As for the grind, it should be almost like flour.
>
I do believe that is just about what I had. My impression when feeling
it as I began the grind was that it was somewhat like talc, but flour
is also an accurate description.
>I'm puzzled by your friend's comment that it didn't "float" ---- the grounds
>should NOT float. They should sink to the bottom. Perhaps he was referring
>to the fact that there was no "crema" floating on the top.
>
I don't know as I got the comment second hand.
>To bore you even further, although I'm sure you know what kind of pot to use
>for Turkish coffee, "ibrik" is really the wrong word.
>An "ibrik" is usually a long-spouted pitcher, not suitable for coffee-making
>at all. The Turkish coffee pot is called "cezve" (pronounced "jezve" ) in
>Turkish --- it's also commonly known as a "kanaka" in Arabic (pictures
>posted on alt.binaries.coffee)
It also seems that there is some confusion when googling this as the
words ibrik and cezve seem to be used interchangeably in some places
and not others.. My reading of some web pages led me to believe that
it should be tall with a narrowing neck, but searching for cezve I get
items that look more like steaming pitchers like:
http://turkishtaste.stores.yahoo.net/turcofpotlar.html
As a matter of fact, I bought one of those at Harper's Ferry kitchen
store being sold as a steaming pitcher... looks like I will be making
some Turkish soon in my cezve!
From your pics it is clear that the Western world often misuses the
term "ibrik."
Thanks for all that. Sounds like you need to put a good Turkish
Coffee site together!
Randy "not taffy" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 15:13:08
From: wff_ng_7
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:
> It also seems that there is some confusion when googling this as the
> words ibrik and cezve seem to be used interchangeably in some places
> and not others.. My reading of some web pages led me to believe that
> it should be tall with a narrowing neck, but searching for cezve I get
> items that look more like steaming pitchers like:
> http://turkishtaste.stores.yahoo.net/turcofpotlar.html
I've got two, one made in Sarajevo decades ago when it was in Yugoslavia.
The other was made in Portugal in the 1990s. Both are copper, tin lined,
with brass handles. The Sarajevo one holds about two ounces, and is part of
a serving set that includes two cups, each holding about an ounce. The
Portugal one is much larger, holding about eight ounces. Things work best if
the size of your ibrik matches the quantity you are making. In form, mine
are both similar to the following (tall with narrowing neck):
http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/22/25/2d_1_b.JPG
That image is from an eBay seller in Istanbul, by the way.
There always seem to be some for sale on eBay. Once in a while one will find
the typical alcohol burner for making turkish coffee there too. That site,
Natasha's Cafe sells the alcohol burners new.
--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 10:47:10
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:0jtdc29bv5n0h2vm6rkoqjjtqovqau3c26@4ax.com...
> "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>As for the degree of roasting, although there are some that prefer it
>>dark,
>>Turkish style coffee is traditionally made from a sort of medium dark
>>roast
>>(sorry I can't describe it better). Interestingly enough, my favorite
>>coffee-roaster in Cairo referred to the darker roasts as
>>"American-style".
>>
> If my previous roast and my MD's comments are any indication, I would
> say it should be roasted to just at or possibly an instant before the
> first clicks of second crack at the darkest.
>
>> As for the grind, it should be almost like flour.
>>
> I do believe that is just about what I had. My impression when feeling
> it as I began the grind was that it was somewhat like talc, but flour
> is also an accurate description.
>
>>I'm puzzled by your friend's comment that it didn't "float" ---- the
>>grounds
>>should NOT float. They should sink to the bottom. Perhaps he was
>>referring
>>to the fact that there was no "crema" floating on the top.
>>
> I don't know as I got the comment second hand.
>
>>To bore you even further, although I'm sure you know what kind of pot
>>to use
>>for Turkish coffee, "ibrik" is really the wrong word.
>>An "ibrik" is usually a long-spouted pitcher, not suitable for
>>coffee-making
>>at all. The Turkish coffee pot is called "cezve" (pronounced
>>"jezve" ) in
>>Turkish --- it's also commonly known as a "kanaka" in Arabic
>>(pictures
>>posted on alt.binaries.coffee)
>
> It also seems that there is some confusion when googling this as the
> words ibrik and cezve seem to be used interchangeably in some places
> and not others.. My reading of some web pages led me to believe that
> it should be tall with a narrowing neck, but searching for cezve I get
> items that look more like steaming pitchers like:
> http://turkishtaste.stores.yahoo.net/turcofpotlar.html
> As a matter of fact, I bought one of those at Harper's Ferry kitchen
> store being sold as a steaming pitcher... looks like I will be making
> some Turkish soon in my cezve!
>
> From your pics it is clear that the Western world often misuses the
> term "ibrik."
>
> Thanks for all that. Sounds like you need to put a good Turkish
> Coffee site together!
>
> Randy "not taffy" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
Try lookin' @ these! http://www.natashascafe.com/html/foodncoffee.html
Craig.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 09:19:04
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote:
>Try lookin' @ these! http://www.natashascafe.com/html/foodncoffee.html
>Craig.
I have seen a number similar to some of those.
Generally speaking, I would be wary about actually using any that
state that they are "tinned" inside as this could make them quite high
in lead content..
Randy "got enough brain damage from the 70's already" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 15:12:09
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:0c5fc2dh07da5jjfthkav7mu8lp37lgu05@4ax.com...
> "Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>Try lookin' @ these! http://www.natashascafe.com/html/foodncoffee.html
>>Craig.
>
> I have seen a number similar to some of those.
>
> Generally speaking, I would be wary about actually using any that
> state that they are "tinned" inside as this could make them quite high
> in lead content..
>
>
> Randy "got enough brain damage from the 70's already" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
The best copper cookware was tinned.
http://www.rockymountainretinning.com/
So you're saying it isn't food grade tinning? They've made
Cezve's/Ibriki's for a few centuries in the Middle East. Are you saying
they're trying to poison us? {:-O
Craig.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 12:55:11
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote:
>
>The best copper cookware was tinned.
>http://www.rockymountainretinning.com/
>So you're saying it isn't food grade tinning? They've made
>Cezve's/Ibriki's for a few centuries in the Middle East. Are you saying
>they're trying to poison us? {:-O
Are you saying that there are people in the middle east NOT trying to
poison us? ;-)
I do not know what process they are using to tin nor what they are
using. I have seen a number of these sold "for decorative use only"
and so would urge caution is all. The heat used as well as the acidic
nature of coffee has the potential of leaching substantial amounts of
lead IF it were the case that a lead/tin alloy was being used for
tinning. I would certainly hope not.
Randy "daime bramaged" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 17:58:19
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:orhfc29u592gbphlv0mlug42pav6ecrvg6@4ax.com...
> "Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>>The best copper cookware was tinned.
>>http://www.rockymountainretinning.com/
>>So you're saying it isn't food grade tinning? They've made
>>Cezve's/Ibriki's for a few centuries in the Middle East. Are you
>>saying
>>they're trying to poison us? {:-O
>
>
> Are you saying that there are people in the middle east NOT trying to
> poison us? ;-)
>
Hehehh {:-(
> I do not know what process they are using to tin nor what they are
> using. I have seen a number of these sold "for decorative use only"
> and so would urge caution is all. The heat used as well as the acidic
> nature of coffee has the potential of leaching substantial amounts of
> lead IF it were the case that a lead/tin alloy was being used for
> tinning. I would certainly hope not.
>
Yes I understand that Randy..
>
> Randy "daime bramaged" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
Cheers,
Craig.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 12:53:57
From: hudson
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:sMzxg.135460$dW3.106987@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> To bore you even further, although I'm sure you know what kind of pot to
> use for Turkish coffee, "ibrik" is really the wrong word.
> An "ibrik" is usually a long-spouted pitcher, not suitable for
> coffee-making at all. The Turkish coffee pot is called "cezve"
> (pronounced "jezve" ) in Turkish --- it's also commonly known as a
> "kanaka" in Arabic (pictures posted on alt.binaries.coffee)
>
It's an Ibrik in Greek.
Stuart Hudson
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 12:11:04
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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It's hard to make generalizations when it comes to "Turkish" coffee because
the style was dispersed across a huge area corresponding roughly to the
former Ottoman Empire and beyond into other parts of the Moslem world, with
vastly different cultures ranging from the Bedouins of the desert to
sophisticated urban centers that had coffee houses with a sophisticated cafe
culture before the drink was even known in the West. Each nationality is
convinced that THEIR version and method of prep. of Turkish coffee (lighter,
darker, with cardamom, without, etc.) is THE AUTHENTIC ONE and all the
others are horrid. Likewise, the local names for the cooking vessels vary.
So it's a lot like the tale of the blind men and the elephant.
Where did your MD learn Turkish coffee? This may give better hints as to
his preferred style.
That being said, the most typical bean used in modern times would be all
Brasil. I think, as in espresso that the natural process beans give the
most "crema" (what he meant by "float"). Try a very light roast - what we
would call a cinnamon (colored) roast, not even to the start of 2nd crack
and see whether that does the trick. You may want to run it thru a whirly
blade after burr grinding to truly pulverize the coffee - it can't be ground
too finely.
"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:v50bc2doogvtgmqfkb1qll2eo9p8e62nqt@4ax.com...
> Speaking of lever machines...
>
> I recently typed of the MD to whom I gifted a jar of coffee. To
> refresh your memory, he had mentioned that he liked Turkish, so I
> roasted a batch of an Indonesian with some Tanzanian peaberry to an
> active second and ground it about 4 clicks finer than I do for
> espresso. Mind you, I have never made Turkish and everything I did was
> all just a wild guess based on what I had on hand and some research on
> the net.
>
> I got a reply from him through the receptionist. He said that for
> Turkish it was a bit too dark-roasted and it didn't float [needed to
> be ground finer...? I am guessing..]. He also has a La Pavoni lever
> machine of which he is very proud. He used the coffee in that and he
> said.. and I quote, "It was the best espresso I have ever had."
>
> And although it is not news for most of you. The moral is, start with
> fresh coffee!
>
> For the Turkish, I would only guess that the coffee was too dark
> because the Turkish coffee is traditionally (or at least,
> historically) pan roasted so the inside of the bean is usually less
> roasted than the outside which creates a blend of the acidic light
> roast innards and the much darker roasted outer portions of the
> bean.....? I suppose I will have to hit the import store and find a
> nice Ibrick to figure it out for myself. ;-)
>
>
> Randy "ibrick... Do YOU brick?" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 23:54:45
From: Ivo van der Putten
Subject: Re: Speaking of lever machines...
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Jack Denver schreef:
> It's hard to make generalizations when it comes to "Turkish" coffee because
> the style was dispersed across a huge area corresponding roughly to the
> former Ottoman Empire and beyond into other parts of the Moslem world, with
> vastly different cultures ranging from the Bedouins of the desert to
> sophisticated urban centers that had coffee houses with a sophisticated cafe
> culture before the drink was even known in the West. Each nationality is
> convinced that THEIR version and method of prep. of Turkish coffee (lighter,
> darker, with cardamom, without, etc.) is THE AUTHENTIC ONE and all the
> others are horrid. Likewise, the local names for the cooking vessels vary.
> So it's a lot like the tale of the blind men and the elephant.
>
> Where did your MD learn Turkish coffee? This may give better hints as to
> his preferred style.
>
> That being said, the most typical bean used in modern times would be all
> Brasil. I think, as in espresso that the natural process beans give the
> most "crema" (what he meant by "float"). Try a very light roast - what we
> would call a cinnamon (colored) roast, not even to the start of 2nd crack
> and see whether that does the trick. You may want to run it thru a whirly
> blade after burr grinding to truly pulverize the coffee - it can't be ground
> too finely.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
> news:v50bc2doogvtgmqfkb1qll2eo9p8e62nqt@4ax.com...
>> Speaking of lever machines...
>>
>> I recently typed of the MD to whom I gifted a jar of coffee. To
>> refresh your memory, he had mentioned that he liked Turkish, so I
>> roasted a batch of an Indonesian with some Tanzanian peaberry to an
>> active second and ground it about 4 clicks finer than I do for
>> espresso. Mind you, I have never made Turkish and everything I did was
>> all just a wild guess based on what I had on hand and some research on
>> the net.
>>
>> I got a reply from him through the receptionist. He said that for
>> Turkish it was a bit too dark-roasted and it didn't float [needed to
>> be ground finer...? I am guessing..]. He also has a La Pavoni lever
>> machine of which he is very proud. He used the coffee in that and he
>> said.. and I quote, "It was the best espresso I have ever had."
>>
>> And although it is not news for most of you. The moral is, start with
>> fresh coffee!
>>
>> For the Turkish, I would only guess that the coffee was too dark
>> because the Turkish coffee is traditionally (or at least,
>> historically) pan roasted so the inside of the bean is usually less
>> roasted than the outside which creates a blend of the acidic light
>> roast innards and the much darker roasted outer portions of the
>> bean.....? I suppose I will have to hit the import store and find a
>> nice Ibrick to figure it out for myself. ;-)
>>
>>
>> Randy "ibrick... Do YOU brick?" G.
>> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>>
>>
>
>
Turkish turkish coffee is mostly Rio Minas, roasted longish - 18
minutes, not very dark. (Roasting starts from 130C)
It is ground very fine, not possible in conventional grinders, even the
expensive German grinders can't cope . .
The use a whirly blade grinder is not recommended . .
Preparation >> http://www.gebrand.nl/Turksekoffie_eng.htm
The use of Natural Brazils is not necessarily for the crema, freshly
roast "any type of coffee" will give you a rich crema if you follow the
right method.
Ivo
www.ongebrand.nl
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