coffee-forum.net Promoting coffee discussion.

Main Date: 09 Aug 2006 12:30:47 From: Zox Subject: Starbucks in France experiences Hello coffee addicts, I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the situation eventually. 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on the Starbucks.fr website. 3. I go to another place, the Starbucks at Odeon metro station in Paris and both the French workers and the one British worker are cool about everything and very polite and accommodating in every way. This is especially good news because this is in an area where the regular French cafes price-gouge everybody, as in $3 for an espresso. I recommend this Starbucks. So there you are.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:06:56 From: Iceman Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > beans@smithfarms.com wrote: > > > > > >> Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit > > >> down...??? > > > > > >More than what? > > In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to > > stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat > > at a table that same food will cost more. In Italy, when the menu says your drink costs X, many cafes will charge you: X if you drink it at the counter 2X if you sit at a table inside 3X if you sit at a table outside In France there's generally a small difference between counter and table prices, but not like in Italy. > I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is > automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > Euros, tax and service included. That's a separate issue. Restaurants usually add the tip to the bill in most of Europe, but cafes usually don't.     Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:11:54 From: notbob Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 2006-08-10, Iceman <oneofcold@yahoo.com > wrote: > In Italy, when the menu says your drink costs X, many cafes will charge > you: > > X if you drink it at the counter > > 2X if you sit at a table inside > > 3X if you sit at a table outside How many x's if you're riding off on your Vespa? nb       Date: 10 Aug 2006 03:15:40 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences notbob wrote: > On 2006-08-10, Iceman <oneofcold@yahoo.com> wrote: > > In Italy, when the menu says your drink costs X, many cafes will charge > > you: > > > > X if you drink it at the counter > > > > 2X if you sit at a table inside > > > > 3X if you sit at a table outside > > How many x's if you're riding off on your Vespa? If you're quick enought it's free ;--) -- Best Greg         Date: 10 Aug 2006 08:52:54 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow wrote: > > > > X if you drink it at the counter > > > > > > 2X if you sit at a table inside > > > > > > 3X if you sit at a table outside > > > > How many x's if you're riding off on your Vespa? > > If you're quick enought it's free ;--) > I think the saying "If you don't like the way I drive stay off the sidewalk" originated in Italy. We arrived there late one day and were out looking for a place for dinner. Just like here, the have one way streets. Motorcyclists who want to go opposite to the direction of the cars drive down the sidewalk.... and fast.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 08:21:21 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in news:UqmdnafRq9hnPkfZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@comcast.com: > On 2006-08-10, Iceman <oneofcold@yahoo.com> wrote: >> In Italy, when the menu says your drink costs X, many cafes will >> charge you: >> >> X if you drink it at the counter >> >> 2X if you sit at a table inside >> >> 3X if you sit at a table outside > > How many x's if you're riding off on your Vespa? Hit and run coffee? How terribly gauche of you. -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell   Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:16:57 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. So the Starbucks experience in France is the same as the Starbucks experience in the US. Isn't that consistency what people want? -- Craig     Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:36:10 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch writes: > So the Starbucks experience in France is the same as the Starbucks > experience in the US. Isn't that consistency what people want? When they are seeking out a specific brand, yes. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:08:12 From: rosie Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > situation eventually. > > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on > the Starbucks.fr website. > ERMMM..... so did you do anything right ?? Rosie   Date: 10 Aug 2006 01:36:51 From: {{{{{Welcome}}}}} Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Thus spaketh Zox: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > Why would you want to even enter a Starbucks, let alone drink the crap they serve? -- DVD rental: www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk/dvd PAYG Mobile Offers: www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk/payg Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk   Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:54:40 From: Alan Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" wrote > Hello coffee addicts, <<ill-tempered, self-centered, whiny rant snipped >> > So there you are. Folks have already paid far too much attention to your little rant, but I just can't resist --- you're a self-centered, insensitive little twerp, Zox . . . you better hope you never sit me next to me when you take of your shoes and plant your feet on a chair . .   Date: 09 Aug 2006 16:18:50 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > > Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, > where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, > instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. > I refuse to spend serious money if they won't > let me taste my food the entire time. I was there at approximately the same time (World Cup Championship + Tour de France), but it seems your Paris and my Paris are two different worlds. sf non-smoker   Date: 09 Aug 2006 16:13:51 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences PeterL wrote: > > Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not > available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking > part. 1. Bring Splenda with you, if it's that important. 2. Most of Europe is "non-smoking" now. I spent a month there this summer and saw more smokers in London than in Paris.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 18:03:05 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. Gauging by the description of your reactions, you obviously believe tourists can impose their values on others rather than "when in Rome...". -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell     Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:23:28 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > Gauging by the description of your reactions, you obviously believe > tourists can impose their values on others rather than "when in > Rome...". Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit down...??? -- Best Greg       Date: 09 Aug 2006 18:32:30 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote in news:Q7uCg.1799$Sn3.1469@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > Michel Boucher wrote: > >> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 >> @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >> >> > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >> > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. >> >> Gauging by the description of your reactions, you obviously >> believe tourists can impose their values on others rather than >> "when in Rome...". > > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit > down...??? More than what? -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell         Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:38:17 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:32:30 -0500, Michel Boucher <alsandorz@rogers.com > wrote: >"Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote >in news:Q7uCg.1799$Sn3.1469@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > >> Michel Boucher wrote: >> >>> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 >>> @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >>> >>> > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >>> > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. >>> >>> Gauging by the description of your reactions, you obviously >>> believe tourists can impose their values on others rather than >>> "when in Rome...". >> >> Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit >> down...??? > >More than what? In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat at a table that same food will cost more. aloha, Cea --smithfarms.com farmers of pure kona roast beans to kona to email           Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:50:38 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences beans@smithfarms.com wrote: > > >> Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit > >> down...??? > > > >More than what? > In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to > stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat > at a table that same food will cost more. I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 Euros, tax and service included. .             Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:05:39 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca > wrote in news:44DA74CE.36C3882F@sympatico.ca: > If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > Euros, tax and service included. Almost all prices in Europe include VAT or other sales tax. I say almost all because some picky person will come up with an exception like salt or gas... -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell             Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:11:28 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > beans@smithfarms.com wrote: > > >>>>Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit >>>>down...??? >>> >>>More than what? >> >>In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to >>stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat >>at a table that same food will cost more. > > > I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is > automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > Euros, tax and service included. Which is why the prices on the menu a waiter hands you are likely to be higher than those posted behind the bar. > . >           Date: 09 Aug 2006 18:45:08 From: notbob Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 2006-08-09, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com > wrote: > In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to > stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat > at a table that same food will cost more. Are you serious? And how do they know? Are there Starbucks that actually have table service? Is this commom practice at other eating establishments, this butt space pricing versus foot space pricing? nb             Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:23:06 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:45:08 -0500, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote: >On 2006-08-09, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com> wrote: > >> In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to >> stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat >> at a table that same food will cost more. > >Are you serious? And how do they know? Are there Starbucks that >actually have table service? Is this commom practice at other eating >establishments, this butt space pricing versus foot space pricing? > >nb They only have so much table and chair space. I know this is for sure in Firenze/Florence. They ask if you are eating in or not. Makes sense to me. I do not know about Starbucks because although they are on every street corner, I never have visited one. (We bring our own coffee or have it shipped. We are coffee farmers after all<g >.) I am talking about lunch or dinner places. aloha, Cea --smithfarms.com farmers of pure kona roast beans to kona to email             Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:50:13 From: D. Ross Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:               Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:16:26 From: poldy Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences In article <44db0d24.106562689@localhost >, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote: > This is the norm in Italy, and it makes some sense if you think of it as > renting a table at which you plan to sit for a while. There are some cafes in the US which provides free Wifi access. So some people take advantage and occupy tables for hours. Some establishments have started shutting off Wifi during rush hours, to try to get people to move on.                 Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:53:15 From: Jim Ley Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:16:26 -0700, poldy <poldy@kfu.com > wrote: >In article <44db0d24.106562689@localhost>, > ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote: > >> This is the norm in Italy, and it makes some sense if you think of it as >> renting a table at which you plan to sit for a while. > >There are some cafes in the US which provides free Wifi access. So some >people take advantage and occupy tables for hours. I'm at a Little Chef in the UK on the A303 at the minute, I've been here pushing 90 minutes, despite being pretty busy, they don't seem to have minded and have been out with the free refills on the coffee quickly and friendly. I spend most of time working in pubs and cafes, I've never had anyone impatient to move me on, even in busy places. Jim.                   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:03:07 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Jim Ley wrote: > > > I'm at a Little Chef in the UK on the A303 at the minute, I've been > here pushing 90 minutes, despite being pretty busy, they don't seem to > have minded and have been out with the free refills on the coffee > quickly and friendly. > > I spend most of time working in pubs and cafes, I've never had anyone > impatient to move me on, even in busy places. And that is one of my problems with Starbucks. The few that are around here have very limited seating. I appreciate that warm atmosphere. So, it seems do a lot of other people who park there for hours nursing a coffee. There is never a place to sit and enjoy the coffee, so I don't often go there.                   Date: 12 Aug 2006 10:03:27 From: D. Ross Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences         Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:37:56 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote:... > "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote > in news:Q7uCg.1799$Sn3.1469@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > > > Michel Boucher wrote: > > > >> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > >> @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > >> > >> > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > >> > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > >> > >> Gauging by the description of your reactions, you obviously > >> believe tourists can impose their values on others rather than > >> "when in Rome...". > > > > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit > > down...??? > > More than what? More than those patrons who stand at the counter...??? -- Best Greg           Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:03:06 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote in news:oluCg.1808$Sn3.191@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: >> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit >> > down...??? >> >> More than what? > > More than those patrons who stand at the counter...??? I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just feeling playful tonight? -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell             Date: 10 Aug 2006 01:39:26 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote in > news:oluCg.1808$Sn3.191@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > > >> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit > >> > down...??? > >> > >> More than what? > > > > More than those patrons who stand at the counter...??? > > I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just > feeling playful tonight? Don't we have to first establish whether there *are* any Starbucks outlets in Italy? ;---) -- Best Greg               Date: 10 Aug 2006 08:16:54 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote in news:i7wCg.6667$0e5.5091@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: >> I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just >> feeling playful tonight? > > Don't we have to first establish whether there *are* any Starbucks > outlets in Italy? Why don't you go and find out :-) -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell               Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:40:23 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > : > >Michel Boucher wrote: > >> "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote in >> news:oluCg.1808$Sn3.191@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: >> >> >> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit >> >> > down...??? >> >> >> >> More than what? >> > >> > More than those patrons who stand at the counter...??? >> >> I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just >> feeling playful tonight? > > >Don't we have to first establish whether there *are* any Starbucks outlets >in Italy? > >;---) Careful on that tack - you'll have Mixi over redefining what Italy is before you know it. -- Tim C.               Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:51:44 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Cretinus martin's bastard son "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > a écrit dans le message de news: i7wCg.6667$0e5.5091@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > Michel Boucher wrote: > >> "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote in >> news:oluCg.1808$Sn3.191@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: >> >> >> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit >> >> > down...??? >> >> >> >> More than what? >> > >> > More than those patrons who stand at the counter...??? >> >> I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just >> feeling playful tonight? > > > Don't we have to first establish whether there *are* any Starbucks outlets > in Italy? > > ;---) > > -- > Best > Greg > > >             Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:51:14 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences He is a little excited, waiting for Jacqueline to appear "Michel Boucher" <alsandorz@rogers.com > a écrit dans le message de news: Xns981AD6266D232mortimertherat@216.196.97.131... > "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote in > news:oluCg.1808$Sn3.191@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > >>> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit >>> > down...??? >>> >>> More than what? >> >> More than those patrons who stand at the counter...??? > > I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just > feeling playful tonight? > > -- > > "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth > is a revolutionary act." > > George Orwell       Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:12:29 From: poldy Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences In article <Q7uCg.1799$Sn3.1469@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net >, "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote: > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit down...??? I didn't think there were Starbucks in Italy. How would they compete with lower-priced espressos and capuccinos? Just checked their web site. You can't search for any locations in Italy (goes from Ireland to Japan) so presumably there aren't any.         Date: 11 Aug 2006 06:59:06 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences poldy <poldy@kfu.com > wrote in news:poldy-D4A9FD.21122910082006@comcast.dca.giganews.com: > I didn't think there were Starbucks in Italy. How would they > compete with lower-priced espressos and capuccinos? Shouldn't that be expressi and capuccini? :-) Never underestimate the ability of a US corporation to complete miss the obvious. -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell           Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:46:37 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > poldy <poldy@kfu.com> wrote in > news:poldy-D4A9FD.21122910082006@comcast.dca.giganews.com: > > > I didn't think there were Starbucks in Italy. How would they > > compete with lower-priced espressos and capuccinos? > > Shouldn't that be expressi and capuccini? :-) > > Never underestimate the ability of a US corporation to complete miss > the obvious. Like Walmart did in Germany and South Korea :-) -- Best Greg             Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:03:52 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote in news:hL0Dg.6772$xp2.4906@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net: > Michel Boucher wrote: > >> poldy <poldy@kfu.com> wrote in >> news:poldy-D4A9FD.21122910082006@comcast.dca.giganews.com: >> >> > I didn't think there were Starbucks in Italy. How would they >> > compete with lower-priced espressos and capuccinos? >> >> Shouldn't that be expressi and capuccini? :-) >> >> Never underestimate the ability of a US corporation to complete miss >> the obvious. > > Like Walmart did in Germany and South Korea :-) Pretty close but more like Pizza Hut opening restaurants in Italy. From the Wikipedia article: "Pizza hut ha aperto propri ristoranti in 86 paesi del mondo, senza però mai osare metter piede in Italia." Smart people. -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell   Date: 09 Aug 2006 16:02:53 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. <snip > I spent 9 days in Paris last month and saw Starbucks there - but I didn't go to Europe to have an American experience. It's absolutly mind boggling that you choose Starbucks three different times over any random Parisian sidewalk cafe. The French make a fairly decent expresso, but I think their regular coffee sucks, so maybe what Starbucks serves is actually prefered by the French. sf who ran into Rick Steves in Dublin last week and has a picture to prove it   Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:38:42 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Why would ANYONE want to drink Starbuck's coffee in FRANCE?????? In the U.S., maybe - before they came along, restaurant coffee here was like dishwater, and Starbuck's popularity did force them to a somewhat higher standard than that. (But in France?) Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. SFAIK, they ALL do - everywhere! > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > situation eventually. I'm sure no one was sorry to see you go. Americans such as you, they can do without - you've given us a bad enough reputation already. > > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US You've GOT to be kidding! In most restaurants in the U.S. (even Starbucks) you'd be asked to either put your shoes on or leave - even in "redneck" country (obviously your point of origin). Many eating establishments in resort areas have signs at the entrance saying things like "No shirt, no shoes, no service" - and they enforce them.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:37:45 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop@earthlink.net > : >Why would ANYONE want to drink Starbuck's coffee in >FRANCE?????? In the U.S., maybe - before they came along, >restaurant coffee here was like dishwater, and Starbuck's >popularity did force them to a somewhat higher standard than >that. (But in France?) > >Zox wrote: > >> Hello coffee addicts, >> >> I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >> and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > >SFAIK, they ALL do - everywhere! Ah, but then you've tasted real coffee Evelyn. Something this poor oik will probably never do. -- Tim C.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:50:19 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences In the US granny, eh ? Tell us more about the US, your favorite subject on this group "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop@earthlink.net > a écrit dans le message de news: ebdo4u029nk@news2.newsguy.com... > Why would ANYONE want to drink Starbuck's coffee in FRANCE?????? In the > U.S., maybe - before they came along, restaurant coffee here was like > dishwater, and Starbuck's popularity did force them to a somewhat higher > standard than that. (But in France?) > > Zox wrote: > >> Hello coffee addicts, >> >> I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >> and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > SFAIK, they ALL do - everywhere! > >> >> 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say >> is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. >> But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit >> cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there >> that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the >> situation eventually. > > I'm sure no one was sorry to see you go. Americans such as you, they can > do without - you've given us a bad enough reputation already. > >> >> 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >> read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >> which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >> I've been to throughout the US > > You've GOT to be kidding! In most restaurants in the U.S. (even > Starbucks) you'd be asked to either put your shoes on or leave - even in > "redneck" country (obviously your point of origin). Many eating > establishments in resort areas have signs at the entrance saying things > like "No shirt, no shoes, no service" - and they enforce them. >   Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:19:33 From: Bailey Legull Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences panem@myway.com wrote: > Bailey Legull wrote: > > Ugly American tourists want to know. > > Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe > automatically Ugly Irish? How about French people going to > French restaurants overseas? That's odd logic. Are these pubs and restaurants ugly, overpriced chains that couldn't hold the jockstraps of their (native) counterparts? Starbucks is crap compared to what AMERICA has to offer. Now transplant it to a country with arguably the best coffee in the world. I go to France as often as I can. Some of my fondest memories include getting coffee first thing in the morning from some little hole-in-the-wall bar or cafe and watching men in overalls sweep the sleeping city clean with big orange brooms. Sigh. Spectacular. Really, if you need to go to Starbucks, stay home.     Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:36:22 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Bailey Legull wrote: > I go to France as often as I can. Some of my fondest memories include > getting coffee first thing in the morning from some little > hole-in-the-wall bar or cafe and watching men in overalls sweep the > sleeping city clean with big orange brooms. That would be Mixi leading a tour group... -- Best Greg     Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:01:57 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Bailey Legull wrote: > panem@myway.com wrote: > >>Bailey Legull wrote: >> >>>Ugly American tourists want to know. >> >>Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe >>automatically Ugly Irish? How about French people going to >>French restaurants overseas? > > > That's odd logic. Are these pubs and restaurants ugly, overpriced > chains that couldn't hold the jockstraps of their (native) > counterparts? Starbucks is crap compared to what AMERICA has to offer. > Now transplant it to a country with arguably the best coffee in the > world. In any case, it was the OP's confessed BEHAVIOUR that brands him an "Ugly American", not his unaccountable taste in coffee.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:53:10 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Bailey Legull wrote: > Ugly American tourists want to know. Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe automatically Ugly Irish? How about French people going to French restaurants overseas?     Date: 09 Aug 2006 18:05:39 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences panem@myway.com wrote in news:1155160390.827599.201110 @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > How about French people going to > French restaurants overseas? In my experience, they complain about the food :-) -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell     Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:17:06 From: Padraig Breathnach Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences panem@myway.com wrote: > >Bailey Legull wrote: >> Ugly American tourists want to know. > >Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe >automatically Ugly Irish? I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and then seek the experiences you can have at home? -- PB The return address has been MUNGED My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/       Date: 10 Aug 2006 03:18:05 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Padraig Breathnach writes: > I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that > most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs > overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and > then seek the experiences you can have at home? The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an excuse for staying in a foreign country. Anyone can open a pub. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.         Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:46:39 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:18:05 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that >> most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs >> overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and >> then seek the experiences you can have at home? > >The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an >excuse for staying in a foreign country. Anyone can open a pub. The main reason is to make money. People associate the Irish with pubs, and so Irish pubs are popular. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --         Date: 10 Aug 2006 11:48:20 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > : >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that >> most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs >> overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and >> then seek the experiences you can have at home? > >The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an >excuse for staying in a foreign country. ... The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to make money for the owners. At least in my experience in German speaking countries they are frequented mostly by locals - many of which have been, or want to go to Ireland. Ireland is a very poplar (non-sun-worshipping) holiday destination amongst Germans/Austrians. The rest are either British and Irish u who just go occasionally and are rarely regulars. >... Anyone can open a pub. That'S not quite true, and you know it. -- Tim C.         Date: 10 Aug 2006 08:23:48 From: Padraig Breathnach Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that >> most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs >> overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and >> then seek the experiences you can have at home? > >The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an >excuse for staying in a foreign country. Anyone can open a pub. I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no Irish staff at all. The main reason for running an Irish pub abroad is that it tends to be a profitable venture. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/           Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:34:50 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Padraig Breathnach writes: > I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work > in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no > Irish staff at all. They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs. People in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk, and that type of drinking is well adapted to a pub. People in Southern Europe usually drink for other reasons and only become drunk incidentally (if at all), and that is better adapted to other venues, such as restaurants, clubs, or other places where the primary product or service is not based on alcohol. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.             Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:33:03 From: Ian F. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote in message news:oqrld2livdodc8tpeb7m54kn5hjbl1egif@4ax.com... > They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs. Very few of those now. Everyone seems to have mobiles/cells. Ian             Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:29:00 From: Padraig Breathnach Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work >> in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no >> Irish staff at all. > >They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs. > Do you mean staff or customers? My experience of Irish pubs overseas is very limited, as I generally choose to avoid them. That limited experience suggests to me that the large majority of staff and customers seem to be locals. >People in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk, and that type of >drinking is well adapted to a pub. > While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk; most don't. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/               Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:02:34 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Padraig Breathnach writes: > Do you mean staff or customers? Both. > While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in > the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink > to get drunk; most don't. The UK and Ireland both have serious problems with public intoxication and binge drinking. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.                 Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:30:25 From: Padraig Breathnach Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in >> the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink >> to get drunk; most don't. > >The UK and Ireland both have serious problems with public intoxication >and binge drinking. There you go, snipping relevant context again. The fact that the UK and Ireland have problems with public intoxication and binge drinking does not justify your generalisation that people in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk. Do you agree with what I said: that most don't? -- PB The return address has been MUNGED My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/                   Date: 11 Aug 2006 05:23:18 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Padraig Breathnach writes: > The fact that the UK and Ireland have problems with public > intoxication and binge drinking does not justify your generalisation > that people in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk. The sources I've read say exactly that. Most people in these countries who drink do so specifically to get drunk, as opposed to other countries where drinking is prevalent but public intoxication is considered socially unacceptable. > Do you agree with what I said: that most don't? No. Those who drink in these countries tend to drink to get drunk. There are other countries with similar problems, especially in Northern Europe. The U.S. and Japan are apparently this way as well. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.                     Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:25:31 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > : >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> The fact that the UK and Ireland have problems with public >> intoxication and binge drinking does not justify your generalisation >> that people in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk. > >The sources I've read say exactly that. What are your sources, specifically? -- Tim C.                       Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:20:17 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Tim C. writes: > What are your sources, specifically? I don't keep a log of my sources. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.                         Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:51:07 From: Bob Barnett Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Tim C. writes: > > >>What are your sources, specifically? > > > I don't keep a log of my sources. > You have no sources                         Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:24:30 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > : >Tim C. writes: > >> What are your sources, specifically? > >I don't keep a log of my sources. Can you remember them then? -- Tim C.                           Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:38:53 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Tim C. writes: > Can you remember them then? Not usually. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.                     Date: 11 Aug 2006 20:07:35 From: Danny Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > > No. Those who drink in these countries tend to drink to get drunk. For goodness sake - I've had enough of your generalisations. I'm English. I drink occasionally. I don't get drunk. Neither does anyone I know. They go to pubs or other venues for a good night out, that doesn't include the desire to get drunk. There is a problem with drink, as there is in many countries, and I will state that historically, our licensing laws, where drinking was permitted between specific hours, has promoted a binge culture in some people, but "some" isn't "most", and it tends to be more prevalent in younger people. Once older, drinking excessively has big problems, like drink-driving, which is far less of a problem these days, or in employment, where drinking is far more frowned upon than it might have been in the past. -- Regards, Danny http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site) http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)                 Date: 10 Aug 2006 16:10:41 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > > While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in > > the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink > > to get drunk; most don't. > > The UK and Ireland both have serious problems with public intoxication > and binge drinking. Northern Europe is supposed to have more intoxication and binge drinking, but Paris was the only place in Europe where I saw drunken women fighting. It was wicked. One drunken broad lifted the the other woman's near comatose head and smashed it against a table. Paris is also the only place where I saw people pissing in the streets, morning, noon and night, right out in the open on crowded streets. We stayed in hotel one night, and one night only, where half the time you looked out the window some drunk was pissing on the sidewalk. I used to believe that line about how when people are raised with the French attitude toward alcohol and nudity they had a more mature approach. Then I went to France and learned that Boulevard is more than a strip of greenery down the middle of a wide street. It is a place for the drunks to hang out all day and all night, and that almost all advertising is done with pictures of tits and ass.                   Date: 11 Aug 2006 05:20:50 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith writes: > Northern Europe is supposed to have more intoxication and binge drinking, > but Paris was the only place in Europe where I saw drunken women fighting. > It was wicked. One drunken broad lifted the the other woman's near > comatose head and smashed it against a table. Paris is also the only > place where I saw people pissing in the streets, morning, noon and night, > right out in the open on crowded streets. We stayed in hotel one night, > and one night only, where half the time you looked out the window some > drunk was pissing on the sidewalk. When was this? And where in Paris were you? > I used to believe that line about how when people are raised with the > French attitude toward alcohol and nudity they had a more mature approach. > Then I went to France and learned that Boulevard is more than a strip of > greenery down the middle of a wide street. It is a place for the drunks to > hang out all day and all night, and that almost all advertising is done > with pictures of tits and ass. The French are more easy-going with nudity and alcohol, but it is also true that nudity and alcohol are ubiquitous in French society. It's hard to identify cause and effect, though. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.                 Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:23:56 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > : >Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> Do you mean staff or customers? > >Both. > >> While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in >> the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink >> to get drunk; most don't. > >The UK and Ireland both have serious problems with public intoxication >and binge drinking. Most other places do as well - only in the UK it's fashionable to be paranoid about it. -- Tim C.                   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:41:35 From: cybercat Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Tim C." <tim.challenger@aon.at > wrote in message news:n2cod29nv7avajei1r32o9pc68hvhed833@4ax.com... > Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> : > > >Padraig Breathnach writes: > > > >> Do you mean staff or customers? > > > >Both. > > > >> While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in > >> the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink > >> to get drunk; most don't. > > > >The UK and Ireland both have serious problems with public intoxication > >and binge drinking. > > Most other places do as well - only in the UK it's fashionable to be > paranoid about it. > -- WAHHH hahaha! Really?! Is that sooooo ... ;)                     Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:58:41 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "cybercat" <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com > : > >"Tim C." <tim.challenger@aon.at> wrote in message >news:n2cod29nv7avajei1r32o9pc68hvhed833@4ax.com... >> Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> : >> >> >Padraig Breathnach writes: >> > >> >> Do you mean staff or customers? >> > >> >Both. >> > >> >> While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in >> >> the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink >> >> to get drunk; most don't. >> > >> >The UK and Ireland both have serious problems with public intoxication >> >and binge drinking. >> >> Most other places do as well - only in the UK it's fashionable to be >> paranoid about it. >> -- > >WAHHH hahaha! Really?! Is that sooooo ... ;) And your point is ...? -- Tim C.             Date: 10 Aug 2006 19:22:31 From: JohnT Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote in message news:oqrld2livdodc8tpeb7m54kn5hjbl1egif@4ax.com... > Padraig Breathnach writes: > >> I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work >> in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no >> Irish staff at all. > > They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs. > > People in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk, and that type of > drinking is well adapted to a pub. People in Southern Europe usually > drink for other reasons and only become drunk incidentally (if at > all), and that is better adapted to other venues, such as restaurants, > clubs, or other places where the primary product or service is not > based on alcohol. But as you don't travel, haven't any recent knowledge of any of the places you refer to, and have been gratuitously insulting to millions of people such as myself who drink in moderation, why should anyone take any notice of you. And please do remind me about the uniiversal rules of music. JohnT               Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:03:05 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences JohnT writes: > But as you don't travel, haven't any recent knowledge of any of the places > you refer to ... I read. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.                 Date: 10 Aug 2006 22:54:08 From: JohnT Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote in message news:qm0nd2t9rtrharn71vd20itn6kov003tjl@4ax.com... > JohnT writes: > >> But as you don't travel, haven't any recent knowledge of any of the >> places >> you refer to ... > > I read. But you recently said that you don't. And, in this context, reading won't confer knowledge. JohnT                 Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:30:33 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > : >JohnT writes: > >> But as you don't travel, haven't any recent knowledge of any of the places >> you refer to ... > >I read. If your demonstrations of reading and comprehension here is anything to go by, you were probably reading the Beano. -- Tim C.         Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:09:43 From: David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: > Padraig Breathnach writes: > > > I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that > > most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs > > overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and > > then seek the experiences you can have at home? > > The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an > excuse for staying in a foreign country. Anyone can open a pub. Go away and play with yourself. -- David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org       Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:34:37 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Padraig Breathnach wrote: > panem@myway.com wrote: > > > >Bailey Legull wrote: > >> Ugly American tourists want to know. > > > >Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe > >automatically Ugly Irish? > > I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that > most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs > overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and > then seek the experiences you can have at home? Besides which the "Irish Pubs" to found everywhere from Papeete to Nizhny Novgorod to Caracas are hardly representative of the "real" Ireland. They are almost as ubiquitous as McDonalds and are more "concept" than "reality"... -- Best Greg         Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:06:58 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote in news:hiuCg.1803$Sn3.112@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > Besides which the "Irish Pubs" to found everywhere from Papeete to > Nizhny Novgorod to Caracas are hardly representative of the "real" > Ireland. We have an English pub here in Ottawa that puts on the green for Saint Patrick's Day. I find that a bit bizarre. -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell           Date: 10 Aug 2006 01:40:52 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote > in news:hiuCg.1803$Sn3.112@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: > > > Besides which the "Irish Pubs" to found everywhere from Papeete to > > Nizhny Novgorod to Caracas are hardly representative of the "real" > > Ireland. > > We have an English pub here in Ottawa that puts on the green for Saint > Patrick's Day. I find that a bit bizarre. I can beat that -- in Chicago we have an English pub that is actually Scots... -- Best Greg             Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:49:01 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Lol morrow socializing in pubs Poor, lonesome morrow "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > a écrit dans le message de news: E8wCg.6668$0e5.1006@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > Michel Boucher wrote: > >> "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote >> in news:hiuCg.1803$Sn3.112@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net: >> >> > Besides which the "Irish Pubs" to found everywhere from Papeete to >> > Nizhny Novgorod to Caracas are hardly representative of the "real" >> > Ireland. >> >> We have an English pub here in Ottawa that puts on the green for Saint >> Patrick's Day. I find that a bit bizarre. > > > I can beat that -- in Chicago we have an English pub that is actually > Scots... > > -- > Best > Greg > > >         Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:39:33 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow wrote: > Besides which the "Irish Pubs" to found everywhere from Papeete to Nizhny > Novgorod to Caracas are hardly representative of the "real" Ireland. They > are almost as ubiquitous as McDonalds and are more "concept" than > "reality"... I had a good time in an Irish Pub in Copenhagen. We had wanted to take someone out for some drinks because he had worked so hard to help us out with some family stuff and we knew that someone else was getting the credit. He had suggested the spot. It was a nice place, and one of the very few places we found in that country were prices didn't make us almost faint.           Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:57:20 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > Gregory Morrow wrote: > > > Besides which the "Irish Pubs" to found everywhere from Papeete to Nizhny > > Novgorod to Caracas are hardly representative of the "real" Ireland. They > > are almost as ubiquitous as McDonalds and are more "concept" than > > "reality"... > > I had a good time in an Irish Pub in Copenhagen. We had wanted to take > someone out for some drinks because he had worked so hard to help us out with > some family stuff and we knew that someone else was getting the credit. He had > suggested the spot. It was a nice place, and one of the very few places we > found in that country were prices didn't make us almost faint. > The guy(s) who run those Irish pub franchises are good businessmen. They can ship an "authentic" Irish pub most anywhere in the world and have it up and running in no time... When the Iron Curtain started breaking up Irish pubs were often the first "western" - type businesses that opened up in some of these countries. IIRC there was one opened at Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport in the late 80's or so, it was the first private business to open in that airport. Of course that also may have had something to do with Air Rianta (Irish Airports Authority) being given the franchise to operate the duty - frees at some Russian airports... Unlike the American franchise McDonalds, Irish pubs don't carry any "cultural imperialism", etc. baggage. I mean who doesn't love an Irish pub? Some French farmer isn't going to attack the place and in India you don't have to adjust to local vegan food customs, etc., etc... Canny business people those Irish! -- Best Greg             Date: 10 Aug 2006 03:18:48 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow writes: > The guy(s) who run those Irish pub franchises are good businessmen. They > can ship an "authentic" Irish pub most anywhere in the world and have it up > and running in no time... All you need is alcohol. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.             Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:09:44 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow wrote: > > > I had a good time in an Irish Pub in Copenhagen. We had wanted to take > > someone out for some drinks because he had worked so hard to help us out > with > > some family stuff and we knew that someone else was getting the credit. He > had > > suggested the spot. It was a nice place, and one of the very few places we > > found in that country were prices didn't make us almost faint. > > > > The guy(s) who run those Irish pub franchises are good businessmen. They > can ship an "authentic" Irish pub most anywhere in the world and have it up > and running in no time... Just have lots of beer and whiskey and the Irish will come :-) There is one in a city near here. Some friends of mine play there, Irish music of course. > Unlike the American franchise McDonalds, Irish pubs don't carry any > "cultural imperialism", etc. baggage. I mean who doesn't love an Irish pub? > Some French farmer isn't going to attack the place and in India you don't > have to adjust to local vegan food customs, etc., etc... Irish cuisine, and i use the term loosely, is a lot of meat and potatoes, so vegetarians are pretty much SOL on that account. No self respecting Irishmen is going to cook up a batch of Irish Vegan Stew with tofu instead of lamb.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 11:58:03 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Padraig Breathnach wrote: > panem@myway.com wrote: > >>Bailey Legull wrote: >> >>>Ugly American tourists want to know. >> >>Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe >>automatically Ugly Irish? > > > I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that > most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs > overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and > then seek the experiences you can have at home? For no good reason, that reminds me of a "foreign" film I saw eons ago (when they were still mostly in black and white). It dealt with an Englishman who was the envy of his friends because he had arranged to spend a week-end in Paris. Of course there were all the nudge-nudge, wink-wink comments from the friends, to which he replied with a knowing smile. The film then showed his "exciting" weekend - a bed & breakfast featuring a sour-faced English landlady, and the entire week-end spent at an "English" pub in Paris. No Folies Bergere, no wild, wild women - just a quiet couple of days he might just as well have spent at home! >       Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:04:15 From: tim Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Padraig Breathnach" <padraigb@MUNGEDiol.ie > wrote in message news:ahnkd2pa1mk1ib9d53nfe7gt5qvo5ha46n@4ax.com... > panem@myway.com wrote: >> >>Bailey Legull wrote: >>> Ugly American tourists want to know. >> >>Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe >>automatically Ugly Irish? > > I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that > most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs > overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and > then seek the experiences you can have at home? Because IME they are almost always staffed by english speaking staff. The usefullness of this, of course, depends upon whether the local bars are also staffed with english speaking staff, but I can think of one or two regions where this is not common. tim > > -- > PB > The return address has been MUNGED > My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/         Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:27:11 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "tim" <tim_not_at_home2006@yahoo.co.uk > : > >Because IME they are almost always staffed by english >speaking staff. Not ime. When they first open and for a while afterwards you'd be right. But after that they drift into normality, with the odd one around sometimes. -- Tim C.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 11:48:21 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences panem@myway.com wrote: > Bailey Legull wrote: > >>Ugly American tourists want to know. > > > Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe > automatically Ugly Irish? How about French people going to > French restaurants overseas? Apply a little MORE "logic" and read the OP's original post. His confessed behaviour is hardly an advertisement for American tourists! (Quite apart from the quality of Starbuck's coffee, which he may prefer simply be because he's never encountered the genuine beverage.)   Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:19:17 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Ian Smith wrote: > Always assuming some antisocial American hasn't decided to sit at the > next table Most rational people consider SMOKING to be antisocial.     Date: 09 Aug 2006 21:26:14 From: Ian Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 9 Aug 2006 14:19:17 -0700, panem@myway.com <panem@myway.com > wrote: > > Ian Smith wrote: > > > Always assuming some antisocial American hasn't decided to sit at the > > next table > > Most rational people consider SMOKING to be antisocial. So what? I made no comment about smoking. You can draw no rational conclusions about my attitude to smoking from the comment I made. regards, Ian SMith --   Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:07:46 From: Carmen Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > situation eventually. > > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on > the Starbucks.fr website. > > 3. I go to another place, the Starbucks at Odeon metro station > in Paris and both the French workers and the one British worker > are cool about everything and very polite and accommodating > in every way. This is especially good news because this is > in an area where the regular French cafes price-gouge everybody, > as in $3 for an espresso. I recommend this Starbucks. > > So there you are. I must take issue with your assertion that it's okay to take one's shoes off at Starbucks stateside, or to put your feet on the furniture. It's not. First, there's the ubiquitous "No shirt, no shoes, no service by order of the Health Department" signs everywhere one turns. Second, it's just plain rude to put your dirty feet or shoes up on the furniture. Someone else is going to sit there eventually - after you get done taking up two chairs for one person - and they don't want to sit in your filth. Yes, you found a non-smoking place to have coffee. I can understand how welcome that can be - cigarette smoke triggers migraines for me so I literally have no choice but to find such a place. Did you *have* to play the Ugly American while you were there? Carmen     Date: 09 Aug 2006 16:44:37 From: Harry Moos Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Carmen" <carmensrt@gmail.com > wrote in message news:1155157666.482908.239170@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Zox wrote: >> 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >> read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >> which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >> I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off >> your shoes of course! I'm sure it's NOT "100% OK" in the USA. I have had to enforce the "shoes required" law and it's usually children, not adults, who need to be reminded. And it is a law, not a suggestion, in many public areas -- especially food service.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 21:52:41 From: Danny Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > situation eventually. > > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on > the Starbucks.fr website. With your attitude I'd rather not serve you anyway. And putting your feet up on a chair after taking your shoes off is bad mannered. I'd rather have the Frenchman smoking his Citanes or whatever. It's their country, live by their customs (and they aren't renowned for their love of the smoking policy). In a later post you state that you want to enjoy the food and drink, not the cigarette smoke, so why did you visit a *$ anyway - there are many enjoyable places to eat and drink in Paris, most of which aren't expensive, even in the touristy spots - we stay within 3 streets of the Eiffel Tower and can always find rsonably priced places. Pavement tables are better from a smoking perspective, and have great ambience, too. -- Regards, Danny http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site) http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)     Date: 09 Aug 2006 11:17:54 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:52:41 +0100, Danny <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote: >Zox wrote: >> > >With your attitude I'd rather not serve you anyway. And putting your >feet up on a chair after taking your shoes off is bad mannered. I'd >rather have the Frenchman smoking his Citanes or whatever. It's their >country, live by their customs (and they aren't renowned for their >love of the smoking policy). > >In a later post you state that you want to enjoy the food and drink, >not the cigarette smoke, so why did you visit a *$ anyway - there are >many enjoyable places to eat and drink in Paris, most of which aren't >expensive, even in the touristy spots - we stay within 3 streets of >the Eiffel Tower and can always find rsonably priced places. Pavement >tables are better from a smoking perspective, and have great ambience, >too. I was recently (and luckily) in Paris and quite frankly, I expected more smokers. When I got back people asked if there were a lot more smokers than we see here and I said "no". In Paris they do tend to just toss their cigarette butts in the street when done, but the street cleaner men are there every day, bright and early to power wash down the streets. From my small view, it seems that Paris, Firenze and London are not fostering smoking any more than the US is. I do think the OP was rude and reminiscent of an "Ugly American". No shoes? In Hawaii we think that is okay at the beach and around the house, but in a public restaurant and on the chair? Don't think so. aloha, Cea --smithfarms.com farmers of pure kona roast beans to kona to email   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:37:08 From: aem Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Frightens Me wrote: > > Gosh, are you an American by any chance? > Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem     Date: 10 Aug 2006 00:04:47 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com > wrote: > >Dave Frightens Me wrote: >> >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? >> > >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --       Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Frightens Me wrote: > On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >> > >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? > >> > > > >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem > > It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who claim I'm a troll... -- Best Greg         Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:47:40 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 GMT, "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > wrote: > >Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >Dave Frightens Me wrote: >> >> >> >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? >> >> >> > >> >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem >> >> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > > >I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who claim >I'm a troll... You're a shit-stirrer, not a troll! -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --           Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:55:07 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Frightens Me wrote: > On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 GMT, "Gregory Morrow" > <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > >Dave Frightens Me wrote: > > > >> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? > >> >> > >> > > >> >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem > >> > >> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > > > > > >I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who claim > >I'm a troll... > > You're a shit-stirrer, not a troll! Lol...and I've got me own religion too ;-p -- Best Greg             Date: 11 Aug 2006 02:07:05 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow wrote: > Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 GMT, "Gregory Morrow" >> <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> Dave Frightens Me wrote: >>> >>>> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dave Frightens Me wrote: >>>>>> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? >>>>>> >>>>> Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem >>>> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. >>> >>> I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who > claim >>> I'm a troll... >> You're a shit-stirrer, not a troll! > > > Lol...and I've got me own religion too ;-p Tax deductible? -- Craig               Date: 11 Aug 2006 02:18:54 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch wrote: > Gregory Morrow wrote: > > Dave Frightens Me wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 GMT, "Gregory Morrow" > >> <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> > >>> Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >>>>>> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? > >>>>>> > >>>>> Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem > >>>> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > >>> > >>> I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who > > claim > >>> I'm a troll... > >> You're a shit-stirrer, not a troll! > > > > > > Lol...and I've got me own religion too ;-p > > Tax deductible? I'll have to work on that ;-) -- Best Greg         Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:49:33 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences You sure act like one, 8 years and still understands nothing "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > a écrit dans le message de news: R4uCg.1797$Sn3.813@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >Dave Frightens Me wrote: >> >> >> >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance? >> >> >> > >> >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem >> >> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > > > I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who > claim > I'm a troll... > > -- > Best > Greg > > > >         Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:07:37 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow wrote: > Dave Frightens Me wrote: > > >>On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>Dave Frightens Me wrote: >>> >>>>Gosh, are you an American by any chance? >>>> >>> >>>Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem >> >>It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > > > > I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who claim > I'm a troll... ....But a self-confessed one, IIRC! ;-) >           Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:52:45 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > Gregory Morrow wrote: > > > Dave Frightens Me wrote: > > > > > >>On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" <aem_again@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Dave Frightens Me wrote: > >>> > >>>>Gosh, are you an American by any chance? > >>>> > >>> > >>>Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem > >> > >>It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > > > > > > > > I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who claim > > I'm a troll... > > ....But a self-confessed one, IIRC! ;-) At least I possess of measure of self - awareness (I think!), Evelyn... ;-) -- Best Greg       Date: 09 Aug 2006 17:08:31 From: notbob Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 2006-08-09, Dave Frightens Me <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu > wrote: > It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. Then he's and idiot. nb         Date: 10 Aug 2006 00:31:00 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences notbob wrote: > On 2006-08-09, Dave Frightens Me <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote: > >> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll. > > Then he's and idiot. There are plenty of them around! -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --         Date: 09 Aug 2006 17:09:27 From: notbob Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 2006-08-09, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote: > Then he's and idiot. s/and/an/   Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:29:24 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 9 Aug 2006 12:30:47 -0700, "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote: >Hello coffee addicts, >So there you are. Gosh, are you an American by any chance? What were the burger places like? -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:08:49 From: Bailey Legull Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Tell me, how's the Taco Bell in Mexico? How's the Michelob in Germany, the Cheez Whiz in Switzerland, the Hershey bars in Belgium? Ugly American tourists want to know.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:07:22 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > > Those who drink in these countries tend to drink to get drunk. > The Irish say that the only day of the year they get drunk on is St. Patrick's Day. All the other days, they're just practicing.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:07:58 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > Two questions: Fair questions. > 1) Did you do anything else in France? Yes, I marvelled at the wonderful architecture and beautiful women, went to about 15 museums, learned how to make crepes, took about 1000 photographs, and watched the Tour de France in person. > 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the > equivalent of McDonald's? Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. I refuse to spend serious money if they won't let me taste my food the entire time.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 00:26:12 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences I'd rather breathe cigarette smoke than the smell of your socks... "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > a écrit dans le message de news: 1155154078.719947.252070@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > >> Two questions: > > Fair questions. > >> 1) Did you do anything else in France? > > Yes, I marvelled at the wonderful architecture and > beautiful women, went to about 15 museums, > learned how to make crepes, took about 1000 > photographs, and watched the Tour de France > in person. > >> 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the >> equivalent of McDonald's? > > Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, > where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, > instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. > I refuse to spend serious money if they won't > let me taste my food the entire time. >       Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:17:34 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences gRunge oozed: > I'd rather breathe cigarette smoke than the smell of your socks... > Or Jacqueline's panties...??? -- Best Greg > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news: > 1155154078.719947.252070@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > > > JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > > > >> Two questions: > > > > Fair questions. > > > >> 1) Did you do anything else in France? > > > > Yes, I marvelled at the wonderful architecture and > > beautiful women, went to about 15 museums, > > learned how to make crepes, took about 1000 > > photographs, and watched the Tour de France > > in person. > > > >> 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the > >> equivalent of McDonald's? > > > > Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, > > where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, > > instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. > > I refuse to spend serious money if they won't > > let me taste my food the entire time. > > > >         Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:48:08 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Aah morrow getting excited At least she wears some, not like you dirty pervert "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowIMPLEMENTPLAN9!@earthlink.net > a écrit dans le message de news: i2uCg.1795$Sn3.498@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > gRunge oozed: > >> I'd rather breathe cigarette smoke than the smell of your socks... >> > > > Or Jacqueline's panties...??? > > -- > Best > Greg > > > >> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news: >> 1155154078.719947.252070@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> > >> > JoeSpareBedroom wrote: >> > >> >> Two questions: >> > >> > Fair questions. >> > >> >> 1) Did you do anything else in France? >> > >> > Yes, I marvelled at the wonderful architecture and >> > beautiful women, went to about 15 museums, >> > learned how to make crepes, took about 1000 >> > photographs, and watched the Tour de France >> > in person. >> > >> >> 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the >> >> equivalent of McDonald's? >> > >> > Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, >> > where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, >> > instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. >> > I refuse to spend serious money if they won't >> > let me taste my food the entire time. >> > >> >> > >     Date: 09 Aug 2006 21:28:09 From: Padraig Breathnach Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote: >> 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the >> equivalent of McDonald's? > >Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, >where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, >instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. >I refuse to spend serious money if they won't >let me taste my food the entire time. My personal experience of Starbucks: I'd rather not taste the stuff they sell as coffee. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/     Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:13:16 From: Ian Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 9 Aug 2006 13:07:58 -0700, Zox <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote: > > Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, > where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, > instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. Always assuming some antisocial American hasn't decided to sit at the next table, take his shoes off and put his feet up on a chair, of course. Even worse if he then get shitty when someone makes it clear they expect him to behave in a reasonably civilised manner. regards, Ian SMith --       Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:52:08 From: Steve Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 09 Aug 2006 20:13:16 GMT, Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk > wrote: >On 9 Aug 2006 13:07:58 -0700, Zox <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Because it's one of the few nonsmoking establishments, >> where I can actually *taste* my food and drinks, >> instead of tasting whatever I'm breathing in. > >Always assuming some antisocial American hasn't decided to sit at the >next table, take his shoes off and put his feet up on a chair, of >course. > >Even worse if he then get shitty when someone makes it clear they >expect him to behave in a reasonably civilised manner. > >regards, Ian SMith LOL Maybe he didn't 'splain it in Amuricun.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:04:51 From: PeterL Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1155151847.776385.46220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Hello coffee addicts, > > > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > Two questions: > > 1) Did you do anything else in France? > 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the > equivalent of McDonald's? Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking part.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:23:55 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences PeterL wrote: > Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not > available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking > part. No-one 'needs Splender'. -- Craig       Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:17:10 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch wrote: > PeterL wrote: > >> Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not >> available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking >> part. > > > No-one 'needs Splender'. The brand name is "Splenda", and if you prefer your coffee sweetened and are diabetic, you do INDEED "need" it or some generic thereof. >         Date: 11 Aug 2006 05:18:53 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes: > The brand name is "Splenda", and if you prefer your coffee > sweetened and are diabetic, you do INDEED "need" it or some > generic thereof. There are many types of artificial sweeteners, although Splenda has an advantage where high temperatures are concerned. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.           Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:08:41 From: Michael \Dog3\ Lonergan Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > news:rtsnd2ll8oo8sbapru166h5edgpob2b5rl@4ax.com: > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes: > >> The brand name is "Splenda", and if you prefer your coffee >> sweetened and are diabetic, you do INDEED "need" it or some >> generic thereof. > > There are many types of artificial sweeteners, although Splenda has an > advantage where high temperatures are concerned. > Has anyone tried Altern? It's the same as Splenda and here in St. Louis it's about $2.00 less on the 200 count box than Splenda. Michael -- "I live on good soup and not fine words" --Moliere, La Femmes Savantes             Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:35:55 From: dgs Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote: > Has anyone tried Altern? It's the same as Splenda and here in St. Louis > it's about $2.00 less on the 200 count box than Splenda. You negelected to mention one other important "feature" about Altern: one must be prepared to do business with the Wal-Mart borg in order to purchase the stuff. No, thanks. -- dgs         Date: 11 Aug 2006 02:02:32 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > > > Craig Welch wrote: > >> PeterL wrote: >> >>> Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not >>> available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking >>> part. >> >> >> No-one 'needs Splender'. > > The brand name is "Splenda", I know. > and if you prefer your coffee sweetened and > are diabetic, you do INDEED "need" it or some generic thereof. The days when diabetics thought a spoonfull of sugar would cause them a problem are long gone. The pastry with the coffee would do the real damage. -- Craig           Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:07:31 From: Michael \Dog3\ Lonergan Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch <craig@pacific.net.sg > news:YyRCg.10303$rP1.9404@news-server.bigpond.net.au: > > The days when diabetics thought a spoonfull of sugar would cause them > a problem are long gone. The pastry with the coffee would do the real > damage. I use sugar in recipes calling for sugar. The colas I drink are artificially sweetened and I use either Splenda or Altern (same as Splenda only less expensive)in coffee, iced tea, lemonade, smoothies etc. Sugar will not hurt a diabetic if used with discretion and the diabetic knows what they are doing. I'm type 2 and I'm doing everything I can to avoid type 1. I do not want to become a slave to insulin injections. For me, this means avoiding carbs where possible and not overloading on sweets made with sugar etc. I also have to avoid fats because of a heart and artery condition. It's difficult but I manage to eat well and maintain both diseases. Michael -- "I live on good soup and not fine words" --Moliere, La Femmes Savantes           Date: 10 Aug 2006 23:39:30 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch wrote: > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > >> >> >> Craig Welch wrote: >> >>> PeterL wrote: >>> >>>> Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not >>>> available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking >>>> part. >>> >>> >>> >>> No-one 'needs Splender'. >> >> >> The brand name is "Splenda", > > > I know. > > > and if you prefer your coffee sweetened and > >> are diabetic, you do INDEED "need" it or some generic thereof. > > > The days when diabetics thought a spoonfull of sugar would cause them a > problem are long gone. The pastry with the coffee would do the real damage. > But if you think Starbuck's COFFEE is bad.....     Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:44:44 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences PeterL wrote: > JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > >>"Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>news:1155151847.776385.46220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> >>>Hello coffee addicts, >>> >>>I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >>>and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. >> >>Two questions: >> >>1) Did you do anything else in France? >>2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the >>equivalent of McDonald's? > > > Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not > available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking > part. Why not just carry packets of it in your pocket, and have REAL coffee somewhere else? >       Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:18:02 From: JoeSpareBedroom Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop@earthlink.net > wrote in message news:ebdog6329nk@news2.newsguy.com... > > > PeterL wrote: > >> JoeSpareBedroom wrote: >> >>>"Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>news:1155151847.776385.46220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >>> >>>>Hello coffee addicts, >>>> >>>>I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >>>>and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. >>> >>>Two questions: >>> >>>1) Did you do anything else in France? >>>2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the >>>equivalent of McDonald's? >> >> >> Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not >> available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking >> part. > > Why not just carry packets of it in your pocket, and have REAL coffee > somewhere else? >> > You win, for best high tech solution. :)   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:04:13 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. So - one fewer than would have sucked in the US. B;   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:02:44 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences PeterL wrote: > He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the > place. Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer and makes people want to strangle you?     Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:20:43 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >> place. > > Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? > > Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer > and makes people want to strangle you? It doesn't cause lung cancer. It is associated with a higher risk of lung cancer. That's not the same thing. Some people like to smoke. Some don't. It's what's generally called a 'freedom of choice' matter. If you don't like smoking, don't go where people smoke. -- Craig       Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:25:55 From: JoeSpareBedroom Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Craig Welch" <craig@pacific.net.sg > wrote in message news:%JwCg.9705$rP1.7989@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > Zox wrote: > >>> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >>> place. >> >> Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? >> >> Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer >> and makes people want to strangle you? > > It doesn't cause lung cancer. It is associated with a higher risk of lung > cancer. That's not the same thing. At least half the attraction of food is based on scent. Unless everything you eat contains pepperoni, it's pretty hard for food aromas to cut through a haze of smoke. And, by the way, I smoke, but never in the house, and never around people who are eating.         Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:37:29 From: Anon Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:TOwCg.7459$Oh1.3059@news01.roc.ny... > > At least half the attraction of food is based on scent. Unless everything > you eat contains pepperoni, it's pretty hard for food aromas to cut > through a haze of smoke. And, by the way, I smoke, but never in the house, > and never around people who are eating. > And unless your meal contains lots of Parmesan or Romano cheese, smelly feet would cause loss of appetite at the very least. Last time I checked, nobody puts smelly cheese in their coffee, even at Starbucks.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:43:43 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to Craig Welch <craig@pacific.net.sg > : >Some people like to smoke. Some don't. It's what's generally called a >'freedom of choice' matter. If you don't like smoking, don't go where >people smoke. Some people like to machine-gun playgrounds full of schoolkids before they shoot themselves. It's a freedom of choice matter with a different timescale. -- Tim C.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:30:56 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch writes: > It doesn't cause lung cancer. It is associated with a higher risk of > lung cancer. That's not the same thing. Correlation is not causation, true. But the most likely reason for the correlation is that smoking causes lung cancer. About 95% of lung cancers occur in smokers (the rest are associated with radon exposure). Even asbestos is not too much of an issue as long as it is not associated with smoking (although it's best to avoid asbestos, of course). > Some people like to smoke. Some don't. It's what's generally called a > 'freedom of choice' matter. If you don't like smoking, don't go where > people smoke. If you smoke, don't go where smoking is not allowed, or don't smoke when you go there. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.     Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:43:00 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > PeterL wrote: > > >>He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >>place. > > > Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? > > Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer > and makes people want to strangle you? After strangling YOU for being such a prat, of course!     Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:21:40 From: hudson Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1155153763.747756.261890@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > PeterL wrote: > >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >> place. > > Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? > > Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer > and makes people want to strangle you? > Gosh you do sound like an unpleasant little twat. Stuart Hudson     Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:18:01 From: Anon Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences I'm a non-smoker but I would much rather smell cigarette smoke than stinky feet. Unless you in an Italian restaurant, keep your shoes on and the stink contained. "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1155153763.747756.261890@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > PeterL wrote: > >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >> place. > > Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? > > Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer > and makes people want to strangle you? >     Date: 10 Aug 2006 09:14:16 From: Goomba38 Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > PeterL wrote: > >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >> place. > > Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you? > > Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer > and makes people want to strangle you? > Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to strangle too... WHY would you do such a thing??   Date: 09 Aug 2006 13:00:14 From: PeterL Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Zox writes: > > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > > situation eventually. > > What did you do? He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the place.     Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:08:16 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences PeterL writes: > He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the > place. I think taking off shoes is rather odd and inappropriate, but I don't know what the custom is at Starbucks. I worry mostly about hygiene. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 00:06:22 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 22:08:16 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >PeterL writes: > >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >> place. > >I think taking off shoes is rather odd and inappropriate, but I don't >know what the custom is at Starbucks. I worry mostly about hygiene. Wouldn't worrying about health be more effective? -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --         Date: 10 Aug 2006 03:16:44 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Frightens Me writes: > Wouldn't worrying about health be more effective? Hygiene is an aspect of health. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.           Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:42:44 From: Dave Frightens Me Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:16:44 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >Dave Frightens Me writes: > >> Wouldn't worrying about health be more effective? > >Hygiene is an aspect of health. Indeed, but wouldn't worrying about health be more effective? -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- --   Date: 09 Aug 2006 12:57:11 From: PeterL Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Joseph Coulter wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > > > I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > > your shoes of course! > > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the > cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. I would definitely agree with that. It's not OK in any restaurant or coffee shops I go to in the US. > > -- > Joseph Coulter > Cruises and Vacations > http://www.josephcoulter.com/     Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:47:11 From: John Pezzano Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Anyone who goes to Starbucks in the first place has to have his head examined. Overpriced yuppie junk. And worse yet, the jerk goes to one in Europe! If you're going to do that, stay home! JohnP "PeterL" <po.ning@gmail.com > wrote in message news:1155153431.648407.203920@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Joseph Coulter wrote: >> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 >> @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >> >> > I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >> > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >> > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >> > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off >> > your shoes of course! >> >> I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the >> cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. > > I would definitely agree with that. It's not OK in any restaurant or > coffee shops I go to in the US. > >> >> -- >> Joseph Coulter >> Cruises and Vacations >> http://www.josephcoulter.com/ >       Date: 10 Aug 2006 03:20:47 From: Steve Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 22:47:11 -0400, "John Pezzano" <jpezz@myway.com > wrote: >Anyone who goes to Starbucks in the first place has to have his head >examined. Overpriced yuppie junk. > >And worse yet, the jerk goes to one in Europe! If you're going to do that, >stay home! As a citizen of "home", I request he stay in Europe.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:50:17 From: JoeSpareBedroom Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1155151847.776385.46220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. Two questions: 1) Did you do anything else in France? 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the equivalent of McDonald's?     Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:08:49 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences JoeSpareBedroom writes: > 2) Of all the places in France to get coffee, why would you pick the > equivalent of McDonald's? It's hardly the equivalent of McDonald's; Starbucks is dramatically more expensive. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 15:26:57 From: Carmen Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Carmen writes: > > > If you're listening to the ADA their definition of "extreme" will have > > lulled you into a false sense of safety. > > Because they know nothing compared to you? No, try because "they're at odds with the rest of the world in their approach to diabetes management. > > The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists put the > > pre-prandial max at 110 mg/dl and 2-hour post-prandial at 140 mg/dl, > > and a goal of max HbA1c 6.5% for diabetes management. > > So? We are not talking about glucose levels of 800 here. If you've *really* been reading the research you'd know damage gets done at levels lower than the ADA allows, never mind 800. Carmen   Date: 09 Aug 2006 21:46:42 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox writes: > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > situation eventually. What did you do? > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on > the Starbucks.fr website. Do not complain to the French headquarters; complain to worldwide headquarters. Starbucks in France is run by a franchise that I think is based in Spain or Italy (I forget), and it can naturally be expected to act on your complaint in the usual European way--whereas American headquarters will act on it in a more American way. It helps if you can imply that the latter will incur some sort of liability through the actions of the franchise; the possibility of litigation always motivates American companies. > 3. I go to another place, the Starbucks at Odeon metro station > in Paris and both the French workers and the one British worker > are cool about everything and very polite and accommodating > in every way. This is especially good news because this is > in an area where the regular French cafes price-gouge everybody, > as in $3 for an espresso. I recommend this Starbucks. All of the Starbucks in Paris charge a lot. They increased their prices 40% in just the first year of their presence, as I recall. I haven't gone to them much because they have a habit of locking their emergency exits. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:19:21 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Do not complain to the French headquarters; complain to worldwide > headquarters. Starbucks in France is run by a franchise that I think > is based in Spain or Italy (I forget), and it can naturally be > expected to act on your complaint in the usual European way--whereas > American headquarters will act on it in a more American way. It helps > if you can imply that the latter will incur some sort of liability > through the actions of the franchise; the possibility of litigation > always motivates American companies. You're encouraging this jerk to complain, and to threaten litigation, because a Starbucks employee encouraged him to act in a dignified way? Odd. -- Craig       Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:33:07 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch writes: > You're encouraging this jerk to complain, and to threaten litigation, > because a Starbucks employee encouraged him to act in a dignified way? It depends on how the employee behaved. More importantly, whenever one disagrees with a policy, complaints should go to the U.S. headquarters for an American chain, not to local franchise holders, as the latter may simply ignore the complaint unless they are under pressure from the U.S. The U.S. headquarters can be pressured by showing how they might incur liability through the actions of their subsidiary (or by showing potential negative publicity); American companies are no more moral than a robot and mu$t be pre$$ured in other way$ before they will act. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:39:56 From: Joseph Coulter Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > your shoes of course! I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. -- Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations http://www.josephcoulter.com/     Date: 10 Aug 2006 01:01:02 From: David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Joseph Coulter <yourDROPTHISvacation@comcast.net > wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > > > I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > > your shoes of course! > > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the > cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. Wow. Cigarette smoking gets up my nose, physically. My eyes sting, my throat hurts. 2nd hand cigarette smoke is one the biggest drawbacks on the otherwise pleasurable pursuit of travel. My worst reaction to someone putting their feet up on a chair would be mild indignance, but I'd still be OK. They'd have to have _very_ smelly feet for it to have a physical effect. I'm genuinely surprised you can equate the two- and for the record, I don't think it's "OK" to put your feet up on seats- or at least, I don't do it. -- David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org     Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:40:30 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Joseph Coulter wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > > >> I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >>read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >>which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >>I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off >>your shoes of course! > > > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the > cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. I have NEVER been in a restaurant in the U.S. where they allowed that sort of thing - even Micky D's! >       Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:46:20 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Aaaah the US and hey presto ! She's back Duuuuh "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop@earthlink.net > a écrit dans le message de news: ebdo88129nk@news2.newsguy.com... > > > Joseph Coulter wrote: > >> "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 >> @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >> >> >>> I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >>>read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >>>which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >>>I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off >>>your shoes of course! >> >> >> I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the >> cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. > > I have NEVER been in a restaurant in the U.S. where they allowed that sort > of thing - even Micky D's! >> >     Date: 10 Aug 2006 00:25:06 From: Runge Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences He'd better not take iff his shoes in front of me dumbo american "Joseph Coulter" <yourDROPTHISvacation@comcast.net > a écrit dans le message de news: Xns981A9F601CD2yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136... > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > >> I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >> read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >> which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >> I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off >> your shoes of course! > > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the > cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. > > -- > Joseph Coulter > Cruises and Vacations > http://www.josephcoulter.com/ >       Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:25:18 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences gRunge whinges: > He'd better not take iff his shoes in front of me > dumbo american Yet your "patron" Jacqueline takes off more than that in front of you all the time, gRunge...!!! -- Best Greg "and she's BELGIAN..." > "Joseph Coulter" <yourDROPTHISvacation@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message > de news: Xns981A9F601CD2yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136... > > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > > > >> I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > >> read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > >> which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > >> I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > >> your shoes of course! > > > > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the > > cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. > > > > -- > > Joseph Coulter > > Cruises and Vacations > > http://www.josephcoulter.com/ > > > >     Date: 09 Aug 2006 21:18:49 From: Squet34785 Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Joseph Coulter wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1155151847.776385.46220 > @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > >> I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to >> read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >> which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks >> I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off >> your shoes of course! > > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as > the cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on > his side. Yup, agreed. I expect this kind of behaviour from chavs in cinemas. All that was left was for you to throw some food at other patrons, wear a burberry cap, and drain the economy by signing on for as many years as possible until claiming disability for an itchy scrot.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:22:20 From: Omniryx@gmail.com Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Oh, I well remember recovering from a Harvard commencement at 1369 in Cambridge and seeing a young woman walk in, wearing a sparkling new doral gown, throw herself down into a chair, and put her bare and very dirty feet up on the table. Sic transit gloria mundi. Nobody said a thing. Will Negativemark wrote: > I'm going to agree, who takes there shoes off to drink coffee in > public? I have seen people walk barefoot in the subway in the summer > (oh you are just asking for an infection) but I have never seen it in a > coffee shop. Very odd.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 07:13:43 From: dee Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Zox writes: > > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > > situation eventually. > > What did you do? > > > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up > > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to > > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. > > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! > > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. > > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but > > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on > > the Starbucks.fr website. Maybe that gesture is considered to be kind, friendly and appropriate in Paris. You wouldn't know, like some gestures I had were considered rude in UK, but perfectly polite and acceptable in HK. Anyhow, Zox, hope you feel better soon. > > Do not complain to the French headquarters; complain to worldwide > headquarters. Starbucks in France is run by a franchise that I think > is based in Spain or Italy (I forget), and it can naturally be > expected to act on your complaint in the usual European way--whereas > American headquarters will act on it in a more American way. It helps > if you can imply that the latter will incur some sort of liability > through the actions of the franchise; the possibility of litigation > always motivates American companies. > > > 3. I go to another place, the Starbucks at Odeon metro station > > in Paris and both the French workers and the one British worker > > are cool about everything and very polite and accommodating > > in every way. This is especially good news because this is > > in an area where the regular French cafes price-gouge everybody, > > as in $3 for an espresso. I recommend this Starbucks. > > All of the Starbucks in Paris charge a lot. They increased their > prices 40% in just the first year of their presence, as I recall. > > I haven't gone to them much because they have a habit of locking their > emergency exits. > > -- > Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 06:26:45 From: Negativemark Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Goomba38 wrote: > Zox wrote: > > PeterL wrote: > > > >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the > >> place. > Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to > strangle too... > WHY would you do such a thing?? I'm going to agree, who takes there shoes off to drink coffee in public? I have seen people walk barefoot in the subway in the summer (oh you are just asking for an infection) but I have never seen it in a coffee shop. Very odd.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:39:29 From: JoeSpareBedroom Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Negativemark" <negativemark@gmail.com > wrote in message news:1155216405.640507.308350@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Goomba38 wrote: >> Zox wrote: >> > PeterL wrote: >> > >> >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the >> >> place. > >> Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to >> strangle too... >> WHY would you do such a thing?? > > I'm going to agree, who takes there shoes off to drink coffee in > public? I have seen people walk barefoot in the subway in the summer > (oh you are just asking for an infection) but I have never seen it in a > coffee shop. Very odd. > Nothing surprises me. I used to go camping regularly in NY State Parks. Pattern: Someone would get the bathroom sparkling clean. An hour later, one sink looks like someone rinsed mud off their shoes in it, and the other contains gobs of glistening green phlegm. Probably the same pigs who burn plastic plates in their campfires. Some people live like animals.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:54:19 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > > > Nothing surprises me. I used to go camping regularly in NY State Parks. > Pattern: Someone would get the bathroom sparkling clean. An hour later, one > sink looks like someone rinsed mud off their shoes in it, and the other > contains gobs of glistening green phlegm. Probably the same pigs who burn > plastic plates in their campfires. > > Some people live like animals. Some people are disgusting. Eight years ago we were in Europe and after entering France at Strasbourg we stopped at a roadside rest area. The washroom facilities were quite nice. It even had a shower. The problem was that someone has shit on the toilet seat and in the shower. I worked for a while as a weekend janitor in a small restaurant. The women's washroom was always infinitely worse than the men's room. That really surprised me. I grew up with three brothers and my mother was the one who taught us not to make a mess, stressed the importance of aim, and to clean up after ourselves. I was surprised to see that women are such slobs.         Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:37:26 From: notbob Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 2006-08-10, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca > wrote: > has shit on the toilet seat and in the shower. Often, this is a cultural phenomena. We had many asian workers and asian visitors to our company and it quickly became apparent many asian cultures do not use toilets as we know them. They squat over a hole or trough to do their business. When confronted with a western style toilet, they often perch on the seat and squat. Their aim is not always true. > I worked for a while as a weekend janitor in a small restaurant. The women's > washroom was always infinitely worse than the men's room. Sad, but true. Women seem to be much more gross than men in this area. nb nb         Date: 10 Aug 2006 19:14:57 From: Danny Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > I worked for a while as a weekend janitor in a small restaurant. The women's > washroom was always infinitely worse than the men's room. That really > surprised me. I grew up with three brothers and my mother was the one who > taught us not to make a mess, stressed the importance of aim, and to clean up > after ourselves. I was surprised to see that women are such slobs. Unfortunately true here too. In 4 years of running one nightclub we had many broken toilet seats and mirrors in the ladies, sanitary towels and other unmentionables thrown round the place (with the proper disposal facilities available), lipstick over all the mirrors, and broken door locks. The Gents? One mirror tile, which probably fell off due to age. -- Regards, Danny http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site) http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)   Date: 10 Aug 2006 04:30:47 From: stark Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > > All of the Starbucks in Paris charge a lot. They increased their > prices 40% in just the first year of their presence, as I recall. > > I haven't gone to them much because they have a habit of locking their > emergency exits. That wouldn't stop James Bond.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 03:05:39 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf wrote: > The French make a fairly decent expresso, but I think their regular > coffee sucks, so maybe what Starbucks serves is actually prefered by > the French. I, like a great many French people, prefer Starbucks because their espresso is superior to French espresso and it is a smoke-free establishment where you can lounge around. And yes, you can put your feet up if you take off your shoes as I did and I have seen French people do it. All this "Ugly American" talk is infantile and boorish.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:19:02 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > : >And yes, you can put your feet up >if you take off your shoes as I did and I have seen French >people do it. All this "Ugly American" talk is infantile >and boorish. Aha, changing the goalposts now are we? Maybe your feet were dirty? Maybe the others were lucky. But you do behave like an ugly American, even here. -- Tim C.       Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:25:34 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Tim C. wrote: > Following up to "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> : > > >>And yes, you can put your feet up >>if you take off your shoes as I did and I have seen French >>people do it. All this "Ugly American" talk is infantile >>and boorish. > > > Aha, changing the goalposts now are we? > Maybe your feet were dirty? Maybe the others were lucky. But you do behave > like an ugly American, even here. And make a lot of Americans ashamed to admit to being your fellow-countryment!   Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:58:32 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Joseph Coulter wrote: > I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the > cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. By your logic, it is un-French to be a nonsmoker.     Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:15:25 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > : >By your logic, it is un-French to be a nonsmoker. And your point is? -- Tim C.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 02:07:04 From: Craig Welch Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Joseph Coulter wrote: > >> I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the >> cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side. > > By your logic, it is un-French to be a nonsmoker. That wasn't suggested by the poster. -- Craig     Date: 10 Aug 2006 20:59:50 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox writes: > By your logic, it is un-French to be a nonsmoker. That is very nearly true. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 02:33:28 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Tim C. wrote: > Ignorant American oik. Is that you Herr Haider, hiding behind Timmy C's name?     Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:22:37 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > : > >Tim C. wrote: > >> Ignorant American oik. > >Is that you Herr Haider, hiding behind Timmy C's name? Oh no, it's definitely me. -- Tim C.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:34:05 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > : > I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, >which, i Ignorant American oik. -- Tim C.   Date: 10 Aug 2006 08:47:53 From: Ian F. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1155151847.776385.46220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Hello coffee addicts, > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. Does anyone get the feeling that Cathy and Bill may be back? Ian     Date: 10 Aug 2006 08:15:19 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Ian F. wrote: > "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1155151847.776385.46220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > > Hello coffee addicts, > > > > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > > Does anyone get the feeling that Cathy and Bill may be back? > Maybe we'll be treated to a whirlwind "All the Starbucks in Europe in 21 Days!" tour...with snaps no less! -- Best Greg   Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:39:21 From: ensenadajim Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 9 Aug 2006 12:30:47 -0700, "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote: >Hello coffee addicts, > >I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France >and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. Thank you for confirming to the French that all Americans are uneducated boors. You make an ass out of yourself by ASSUMING that behavior that is tolerated in teh Us will equally be tolerated elsewhere. What a frigging brain-dead moron you are. You must make your mother proud - she did want a moron for a son, did she not? jim     Date: 10 Aug 2006 15:36:50 From: Steve Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 22:39:21 -0700, ensenadajim <ensenadaXXXjim@yahoo.com > wrote: >What a frigging brain-dead moron you are. You must make your mother >proud - she did want a moron for a son, did she not? Ya really need to come out of your shell, Jim. :-)       Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:13:33 From: ensenadajim Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:36:50 GMT, Steve <not@use.net > wrote: >On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 22:39:21 -0700, ensenadajim ><ensenadaXXXjim@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>What a frigging brain-dead moron you are. You must make your mother >>proud - she did want a moron for a son, did she not? > >Ya really need to come out of your shell, Jim. :-) Which one? ;- > jim   Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:06:15 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > Some people live like animals. And the boy who didn't like my putting my foot up was very much thinking and feeling like an animal. An ape in particular, beating his chest, pushing people around, making a minor thing seem like a big offense.     Date: 13 Aug 2006 13:34:32 From: Alan Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" wrote > > JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > >> Some people live like animals. > > And the boy who didn't like my putting my > foot up was very much thinking and feeling > like an animal. An ape in particular, beating his chest, > pushing people around, making a minor thing > seem like a big offense. With your whiny, overdeveloped sense of entitlement, it's a wonder some "ape" hasn't beaten you to well-deserved bloody pulp . . .       Date: 13 Aug 2006 14:58:46 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Alan wrote: > "Zox" wrote > >>JoeSpareBedroom wrote: >> >> >>>Some people live like animals. >> >>And the boy who didn't like my putting my >>foot up was very much thinking and feeling >>like an animal. An ape in particular, beating his chest, >>pushing people around, making a minor thing >>seem like a big offense. > > > With your whiny, overdeveloped sense of entitlement, it's a wonder some > "ape" hasn't beaten you to well-deserved bloody pulp . . . Too bad they haven't! Then he might have something genuine to complain about. (At least it might persuade him to stay home, not provide France with yet another example of a rude, boorish American tourist!) > >     Date: 13 Aug 2006 13:38:47 From: hudson Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1155315975.511575.131270@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > >> Some people live like animals. > > And the boy who didn't like my putting my > foot up was very much thinking and feeling > like an animal. An ape in particular, beating his chest, > pushing people around, making a minor thing > seem like a big offense. > What was that you said about personal insults? Mind you I doubt whether you can remember that long ago. Stuart Hudson   Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:06:12 From: Carmen Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Carmen writes: > > > I'd suggest you search the journals for research concerning the effects > > of short-term spikes vis-a-vis oxidative stress and apoptosis leading > > to neuropathy. Or not. Your eyesight and your feet, right? > > I've already read on this before. Complications are associated with > chronic hyperglycemia. An occasional spike does nothing (provided it > is not extreme, of course). If you're listening to the ADA their definition of "extreme" will have lulled you into a false sense of safety. The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists put the pre-prandial max at 110 mg/dl and 2-hour post-prandial at 140 mg/dl, and a goal of max HbA1c 6.5% for diabetes management. Carmen     Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:25:00 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Carmen writes: > If you're listening to the ADA their definition of "extreme" will have > lulled you into a false sense of safety. Because they know nothing compared to you? > The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists put the > pre-prandial max at 110 mg/dl and 2-hour post-prandial at 140 mg/dl, > and a goal of max HbA1c 6.5% for diabetes management. So? We are not talking about glucose levels of 800 here. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:02:39 From: Bailey Legull Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > Bailey Legull wrote: > > > panem@myway.com wrote: > > > >>Bailey Legull wrote: > >> > >>>Ugly American tourists want to know. > >> > >>Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe > >>automatically Ugly Irish? How about French people going to > >>French restaurants overseas? > > > > > > That's odd logic. Are these pubs and restaurants ugly, overpriced > > chains that couldn't hold the jockstraps of their (native) > > counterparts? Starbucks is crap compared to what AMERICA has to offer. > > Now transplant it to a country with arguably the best coffee in the > > world. > > In any case, it was the OP's confessed BEHAVIOUR that brands > him an "Ugly American", not his unaccountable taste in coffee. Well, I'll use his taste in coffee also. It's offensive to the French for Americans to automatically assume their exports are superior to the native French establishments. If someone goes there and just eats McDonalds they're Ugly Americans no matter *how* they act. But frankly, I look down on anyone who goes to a chain restaurant. They were invented fifty years ago, when there weren't many restaurants and the ones that existed were bad. Chains were for travellers who wanted to be assured of a certain standard of quality. Just a few months ago, though, I drove across the U. S., and let me tell you -- I don't think you can drive twenty miles in the U. S. without passing a GREAT local restaurant. There's no reason for McDonalds to exist any more. Now if we could just get people to stop going. . . .     Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:31:52 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Bailey Legull wrote: > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > > Bailey Legull wrote: > > > > > panem@myway.com wrote: > > > > > >>Bailey Legull wrote: > > >> > > >>>Ugly American tourists want to know. > > >> > > >>Applying logic, are Irish people who go to Irish pubs across the globe > > >>automatically Ugly Irish? How about French people going to > > >>French restaurants overseas? > > > > > > > > > That's odd logic. Are these pubs and restaurants ugly, overpriced > > > chains that couldn't hold the jockstraps of their (native) > > > counterparts? Starbucks is crap compared to what AMERICA has to offer. > > > Now transplant it to a country with arguably the best coffee in the > > > world. > > > > In any case, it was the OP's confessed BEHAVIOUR that brands > > him an "Ugly American", not his unaccountable taste in coffee. > > Well, I'll use his taste in coffee also. It's offensive to the French > for Americans to automatically assume their exports are superior to the > native French establishments. If someone goes there and just eats > McDonalds they're Ugly Americans no matter *how* they act. > Plenty of French must be "Ugly Americans" too, as France is McDo's most profitable European (and possibly ex - US) market...it's not all Yank tourists eating there. > But frankly, I look down on anyone who goes to a chain restaurant. > They were invented fifty years ago, when there weren't many restaurants > and the ones that existed were bad. Chains were for travellers who > wanted to be assured of a certain standard of quality. Just a few > months ago, though, I drove across the U. S., and let me tell you -- I > don't think you can drive twenty miles in the U. S. without passing a > GREAT local restaurant. There's no reason for McDonalds to exist any > more. Now if we could just get people to stop going. . There are "great" local restos in the US, but you might have to do a little research to find them in the more rural areas. In plenty of places McDonalds (and other chains) is still a big step up from what's available locally... -- Best Greg     Date: 13 Aug 2006 21:46:27 From: dgs Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Bailey Legull wrote: > [...] Just a few > months ago, though, I drove across the U. S., and let me tell you -- I > don't think you can drive twenty miles in the U. S. without passing a > GREAT local restaurant. Whafuck you talking about, homes? There are vast stretches of the USA where there are *no* towns or restaurants. There are also plenty of stretches where there is a town, but the sole eatery there is little more that a ptomaine palace serving heaps o' greasy fried junk. No thanks. Way too many Place That Suck dot the highways and byways of this big-ass hurkin' place we call America. You'll have to provide extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim. Google maps API would be a good start. > There's no reason for McDonalds to exist any > more. Now if we could just get people to stop going. . . . There's plenty of reason. Lots of people have never outgrown having the palates of six-year-olds. McD's appeals to such folks, and it does so consistently, everywhere. Ditto with Burger King, Wendy's, Applebee's, and the rest of the chain junk that blights the American landscape. -- dgs   Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:02:30 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Goomba38 wrote: > Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to > strangle too... > WHY would you do such a thing?? WHY not? Everyone does it in the USA, and French do it in France. If you take off your shoes there is no harm in it.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:43:23 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Goomba38 wrote: > > >>Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to >>strangle too... >>WHY would you do such a thing?? > > > WHY not? Everyone does it in the USA, and French > do it in France. If you take off your shoes there is no harm > in it. > "Everyone" most certainly does NOT do it in the USA! (Nor in France, nor any other civilzed part of the world.) I'm sure every country has its share of mannerless riff-raff, but don't assume everyone is like you!     Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:39:13 From: Steve Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On 11 Aug 2006 10:02:30 -0700, "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote: >WHY not? Everyone does it in the USA, and French >do it in France. If you take off your shoes there is no harm >in it. You post from an interesting IP address to be such an expert on the U.S. o       Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:23:43 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Steve writes: > You post from an interesting IP address to be such an expert on the > U.S. There is no correlation between IP addresses and expertise. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.         Date: 11 Aug 2006 20:59:58 From: Steve Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:23:43 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote: >Steve writes: > >> You post from an interesting IP address to be such an expert on the >> U.S. > >There is no correlation between IP addresses and expertise. Heh heh, sure.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:00:42 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate wrote: > Wow. Cigarette smoking gets up my nose, physically. My eyes sting, my > throat hurts. 2nd hand cigarette smoke is one the biggest drawbacks on > the otherwise pleasurable pursuit of travel. My worst reaction to > someone putting their feet up on a chair would be mild indignance, but > I'd still be OK. They'd have to have _very_ smelly feet for it to have a > physical effect. I'm genuinely surprised you can equate the two- and for > the record, I don't think it's "OK" to put your feet up on seats- or at > least, I don't do it. In the USA, it's common for people to put up their feet -- without shoes -- at Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, Borders, and any number of others places. Nobody but the most tyrranical employees ever complains. In France, I have seen French put up their feet. The exception is on trains, where the train workers are very polite about telling people not to. The little tyrant I encountered at Starbucks was not only improperly dressed for his job, but he was threatening. He needed to be fired, simply put.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:33:58 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and > deansgate wrote: > > >>Wow. Cigarette smoking gets up my nose, physically. My eyes sting, my >>throat hurts. 2nd hand cigarette smoke is one the biggest drawbacks on >>the otherwise pleasurable pursuit of travel. My worst reaction to >>someone putting their feet up on a chair would be mild indignance, but >>I'd still be OK. They'd have to have _very_ smelly feet for it to have a >>physical effect. I'm genuinely surprised you can equate the two- and for >>the record, I don't think it's "OK" to put your feet up on seats- or at >>least, I don't do it. > > > In the USA, it's common for people to put up their > feet -- without shoes -- at Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, > Borders, and any number of others places. Nobody > but the most tyrranical employees ever complains. > In France, I have seen French put up their feet. Not in any part of the USA I'VE ever been! It's true I've so far avoided "redneck" country, but I question whether they even have Starbucks there, and I seriously doubt the presence of any Barnes & Noble (no point, when the local inhabitants are functionally illiterate).   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:57:11 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > After strangling YOU for being such a prat, of course! Smoking causes premature aging of the skin, and a look of leathery skankiness.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:56:15 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences hudson wrote: > Gosh you do sound like an unpleasant little twat. He who cannot win a debate will resort to shameful personal insults.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:52:34 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Runge wrote: > He'd better not take iff his shoes in front of me > dumbo american So I suppose the French who were doing the same were dumb too? Or perhaps you're just very intolerant.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:29:32 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Runge wrote: > >>He'd better not take iff his shoes in front of me >>dumbo american > > > So I suppose the French who were doing the same > were dumb too? Or perhaps you're just very intolerant. Doesn't that rather contradict your original post? And why, in that case, would the management ask YOU to replace your shoes? Evidently you are not only a boorish American, but a STUPID boorish American! >   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:51:43 From: Cochon Capitaliste Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Zox writes: > > > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say > > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France. > > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit > > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there > > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the > > situation eventually. > > What did you do? > > > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up > > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to > > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person. > > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more! > > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris. > > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but > > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on > > the Starbucks.fr website. > > Do not complain to the French headquarters; complain to worldwide > headquarters. Starbucks in France is run by a franchise that I think > is based in Spain or Italy (I forget), and it can naturally be > expected to act on your complaint in the usual European way--whereas > American headquarters will act on it in a more American way. It helps > if you can imply that the latter will incur some sort of liability > through the actions of the franchise; the possibility of litigation > always motivates American companies. > > > 3. I go to another place, the Starbucks at Odeon metro station > > in Paris and both the French workers and the one British worker > > are cool about everything and very polite and accommodating > > in every way. This is especially good news because this is > > in an area where the regular French cafes price-gouge everybody, > > as in $3 for an espresso. I recommend this Starbucks. > > All of the Starbucks in Paris charge a lot. They increased their > prices 40% in just the first year of their presence, as I recall. > > I haven't gone to them much because they have a habit of locking their > emergency exits. > > -- > Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. You paid $3 for an espresso at Starbucks in Paris. How odd! The medium of exchange here in France is the Euro. In Paris you can get an espresso at a cafe for about =80 1,20.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:06:53 From: Gregory Morrow Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Cochon Capitaliste OINKS: > In Paris you can get an >espresso at a cafe for about ? 1,20. You mean they let a FILTHY stinking PIG like you into a cafe...??? -- Best Greg   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:49:58 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > I think the saying "If you don't like the way I drive stay off the sidewalk" > originated in Italy. We arrived there late one day and were out looking for a > place for dinner. Just like here, the have one way streets. Motorcyclists who > want to go opposite to the direction of the cars drive down the sidewalk.... > and fast. In France, bicyclists ride the wrong way on 1-way streets all the time, but not on sidewalks.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:48:03 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote: > Why would you want to even enter a Starbucks, let alone drink the crap > they serve? It's smoke-free, which is why the place was flooded with nonsmoking French people.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:47:08 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Alan wrote: > "Zox" wrote> Hello coffee addicts, > <<ill-tempered, self-centered, whiny rant snipped>> > > So there you are. > > Folks have already paid far too much attention to your little rant, but I > just can't resist --- <childish blather....> He who knows he cannot win a debate will resort to personal attacks.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 09:41:54 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences American@NumberOne.org wrote: > He should have gotten down on his hands an knees and thanked you > personally for saving his ass in WWII! The person in quesion was a young punk, and actually I have found that older French men have a sober respect.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:26:15 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > American@NumberOne.org wrote: > > >>He should have gotten down on his hands an knees and thanked you >>personally for saving his ass in WWII! > > > The person in quesion was a young punk, and actually I have found that > older French men have a sober respect. > Not really! They're just too polite to let you see how they actually feel. (From what you've revealed of yourself here, I doubt whether many AMERICANS would have any respect for you!)   Date: 11 Aug 2006 07:16:01 From: Carmen Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic wrote: > Carmen writes: > > > I'd strongly disagree. The tighter one's BG control is, the better a > > diabetic does. Sugars count - any sugar - they do damage, and that > > damage is cumulative. > > Not true. What counts is hyperglycemia. Chronic hyperglycemia causes > the damage that in turn produces all the long-term, serious > complications of diabetes. Avoid chronic hyperglycemia, and these > complications will never occur. If blood glucose is maintained well > below 200, complications are unlikely. > > Brief hyperglycemic episodes are not a serious problem. And eating > sugar is harmless, as long as it does not lead to hyperglycemia (and a > teaspoon of sugar isn't likely to do this in most adults). I'd suggest you search the journals for research concerning the effects of short-term spikes vis-a-vis oxidative stress and apoptosis leading to neuropathy. Or not. Your eyesight and your feet, right? Carmen > > Unless I tell them a dor can't > > tell my bloodwork from a normal non-diabetic. *That's* good BG > > control. > > Yes, but it isn't essential to avoid complications. > > > <Stepping off soapbox> > > Be careful: it sounds like the box is pretty high. > > -- > Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:44:01 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Carmen writes: > I'd suggest you search the journals for research concerning the effects > of short-term spikes vis-a-vis oxidative stress and apoptosis leading > to neuropathy. Or not. Your eyesight and your feet, right? I've already read on this before. Complications are associated with chronic hyperglycemia. An occasional spike does nothing (provided it is not extreme, of course). -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:13:26 From: Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences In alt.coffee Zox <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote: > Hello coffee addicts, > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked. > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair, > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt, > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me > to put my foot down but clearly is already pissed off and gives me > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little fucker! > I should have smacked him upside the head. I am aghast that he talked to an American like that! What nerve! He should have gotten down on his hands an knees and thanked you personally for saving his ass in WWII! Any American should have the right to do whatever he pleases anywhere in Europe! If he wants to put his feet up and relax, those surrender monkeys should bring him a pillow and give him a massage! What nerve!   Date: 11 Aug 2006 05:32:03 From: Carmen Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Craig Welch wrote: > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > > > > > > Craig Welch wrote: > > > >> PeterL wrote: > >> > >>> Starbuck serves a function. I need Splender for my coffee. It is not > >>> available anywhere else but Starbucks. And of course the no smoking > >>> part. > >> > >> > >> No-one 'needs Splender'. > > > > The brand name is "Splenda", > > I know. > > > and if you prefer your coffee sweetened and > > are diabetic, you do INDEED "need" it or some generic thereof. > > The days when diabetics thought a spoonfull of sugar would cause them a > problem are long gone. The pastry with the coffee would do the real damage. I'd strongly disagree. The tighter one's BG control is, the better a diabetic does. Sugars count - any sugar - they do damage, and that damage is cumulative. The ADA is way out to lunch as far as their lackadaisical carbohydrate recommendations. An HbA1c of 7 as a goal is a crime as far as I'm concerned, as are their BG goals. Those levels have been shown to lead to damage, yet the ADA still insist on recommending them. I suppose the reasoning is that the stringent levels that would lead to minimal or no damage would not be met by the vast majority of people so why recommend them at all. My own HbA1c is 4.9, and my fasting BG is mid 80s. Unless I tell them a dor can't tell my bloodwork from a normal non-diabetic. *That's* good BG control. I've been a Type II for some time now and I've been low carbing to keep my BGs that low since 1/1/99. My triglycerides dropped to below 200 and my total cholesterol is as well (185). My HDL (the "good" cholesterol) rose to 71 from the 34 it was on my low fat ADA-recommended diet - and I exercised on both eating plans. <Stepping off soapbox > Carmen     Date: 11 Aug 2006 15:45:32 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Carmen writes: > I'd strongly disagree. The tighter one's BG control is, the better a > diabetic does. Sugars count - any sugar - they do damage, and that > damage is cumulative. Not true. What counts is hyperglycemia. Chronic hyperglycemia causes the damage that in turn produces all the long-term, serious complications of diabetes. Avoid chronic hyperglycemia, and these complications will never occur. If blood glucose is maintained well below 200, complications are unlikely. Brief hyperglycemic episodes are not a serious problem. And eating sugar is harmless, as long as it does not lead to hyperglycemia (and a teaspoon of sugar isn't likely to do this in most adults). > Unless I tell them a dor can't > tell my bloodwork from a normal non-diabetic. *That's* good BG > control. Yes, but it isn't essential to avoid complications. > <Stepping off soapbox> Be careful: it sounds like the box is pretty high. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 02:30:13 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences If the French do it, then "when in France, do as the French" and put up your feet. You're only pointing the finger at me because you are obnoxious and need to transfer your guilt. Thus you are little more than a bully.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:33:54 From: Tim C. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Following up to "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > : > >If the French do it, then "when in France, do as the French" >and put up your feet. I suppose you could have just shot the waiter dead, as they murder people in France too. >You're only pointing the finger at me because you are >obnoxious and need to transfer your guilt. >Thus you are little more than a bully. Run out of ideas for discussion already have you? -- Tim C.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:10:06 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > If the French do it, then "when in France, do as the French" > and put up your feet. I've yet to encounter a Frenchman who does so - at least in public! > > You're only pointing the finger at me because you are > obnoxious and need to transfer your guilt. "Pot, meet kettle" > > Thus you are little more than a bully. ...And you are clearly an ugly American boor! >     Date: 12 Aug 2006 09:20:46 From: Ian F. Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "Zox" <z444y@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1155288613.359880.177490@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > If the French do it, then "when in France, do as the French" > and put up your feet. Twaddle. Anyone who takes off their shoes and puts their feet on a chair in public is a bad-mannered imbecile. Period. No French or American person I know would dream of doing this. Ian   Date: 11 Aug 2006 21:57:30 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Gregory Morrow wrote: > Cochon Capitaliste OINKS: > > > In Paris you can get an > >espresso at a cafe for about ? 1,20. > > > You mean they let a FILTHY stinking PIG like you into a cafe...??? > He means convert the euro into dollars, add tax for consuming it on the property, round it off and voila - it's a $3 expresso to complain about in rfc.   Date: 12 Aug 2006 04:19:57 From: bizbee Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences What the fuck kind of boor goes to France, and goes to Starbuck's?   Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:42:57 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf wrote: > > > I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is > > automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > > Euros, tax and service included. > > Next time you travel, be sure to read your bills carefully. Including > gratuity varies by establishment. At the bottom of your bill in > France, you will see "service compris or service non compris" and words > to that effect in other countries. We were surprised the first couple > of times we saw non compris because we thought gratuity was always > included. I know that they have to put Service Compris on the bill if it is included, have seen some without it, but have never seen non compris. I made a habit of asking. A waitress told me that they have to have service compris on the bill if it is included, except in Paris, because in Paris it has to be included.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:21:27 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > > I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is > automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > Euros, tax and service included. Next time you travel, be sure to read your bills carefully. Including gratuity varies by establishment. At the bottom of your bill in France, you will see "service compris or service non compris" and words to that effect in other countries. We were surprised the first couple of times we saw non compris because we thought gratuity was always included.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:55:10 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences notbob wrote: > On 2006-08-09, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com> wrote: > > > In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to > > stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat > > at a table that same food will cost more. > > Are you serious? And how do they know? Are there Starbucks that > actually have table service? Is this commom practice at other eating > establishments, this butt space pricing versus foot space pricing? > > nb The food/drink cost the same, you pay tax or not according to where you consume it. First: They ask you where you're going to consume it Then: You are taxed or not taxed accordingly *consume it on site, pay the tax Why? I dunno. It's the same here in Calfiornia.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 16:43:07 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf wrote: > > right out in the open on crowded streets. We stayed in hotel one night, > > and one night only, where half the time you looked out the window some > > drunk was pissing on the sidewalk. > > > > Good grief. What ghetto area were you in? I don't think it gets that > bad here - even in the Tenderloin (San Francisco). We were right across the street from the Moulin Rouge in Pigaille. My brother's travel agent neighbour booked it for us. We had an amazing view from our hotel room windows. Looking up to the top of Montmarte we had a nice view of Sacre Couer. Panning down there was the interesting skyline of the area, until you get down to ground level to see all the signs for the sex shops, live sex shows. Looking down at the side street below you stood a 50-50 chance of catching someone having a leak. I don't blame the Parisians for the litter on the streets. Like most places I have visited in Europe, litter is much more common in the places that attract tourists. The streets of Pigaille are swept clean every morning, and the streets and sidewalks are washed down with lots and lots of water. It is the morning flush.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:50:34 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith writes: > We were right across the street from the Moulin Rouge in Pigaille. The garden spot of Paris. You may well have been looking at tourists. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:32:30 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > > Northern Europe is supposed to have more intoxication and binge drinking, > but Paris was the only place in Europe where I saw drunken women fighting. > It was wicked. One drunken broad lifted the the other woman's near > comatose head and smashed it against a table. Paris is also the only > place where I saw people pissing in the streets, morning, noon and night, > right out in the open on crowded streets. We stayed in hotel one night, > and one night only, where half the time you looked out the window some > drunk was pissing on the sidewalk. > Good grief. What ghetto area were you in? I don't think it gets that bad here - even in the Tenderloin (San Francisco).   Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:09:04 From: Zox Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Carmen wrote: > I must take issue with your assertion that it's okay to take one's > shoes off at Starbucks stateside, or to put your feet on the furniture. > It's not. Yes it is. It happens every single day in thousands of Starbucks and numerous other cafes and restaurants. So please don't try getting morally self-righteous, it won't work.     Date: 11 Aug 2006 14:51:11 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Zox wrote: > Carmen wrote: > > >>I must take issue with your assertion that it's okay to take one's >>shoes off at Starbucks stateside, or to put your feet on the furniture. >> It's not. > > > Yes it is. It happens every single day in thousands > of Starbucks and numerous other cafes and restaurants. > So please don't try getting morally self-righteous, > it won't work. Are you REALLY such an unobservant idiot you haven't even noticed that behavior similar to yours is vastly in the minority? (Regardless of the quality of its coffee, even Starbucks maintains certain standards, as do McDonalds and the other fast-food chains.)   Date: 12 Aug 2006 05:47:18 From: Omniryx@gmail.com Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences But see my earlier post about dirty feet on tables in Cambridge....hardly red neck country. EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > Not in any part of the USA I'VE ever been! It's true I've > so far avoided "redneck" country, but I question whether > they even have Starbucks there, and I seriously doubt the > presence of any Barnes & Noble (no point, when the local > inhabitants are functionally illiterate).     Date: 12 Aug 2006 10:48:50 From: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Omniryx@gmail.com wrote: > But see my earlier post about dirty feet on tables in > Cambridge....hardly red neck country. England or Massachusetts? (I suppose even civilized locations may have SOME ignorant riff-raff among their clientele, but I can't imagine any reputable establishment ALLOWING such uncouth behaviour - even Starbucks or McD's.) > > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > >>Not in any part of the USA I'VE ever been! It's true I've >>so far avoided "redneck" country, but I question whether >>they even have Starbucks there, and I seriously doubt the >>presence of any Barnes & Noble (no point, when the local >>inhabitants are functionally illiterate). > >   Date: 12 Aug 2006 04:48:58 From: Iceman Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf wrote: > Dave Smith wrote: > > sf wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is > > > > automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > > > > Euros, tax and service included. > > > > > > Next time you travel, be sure to read your bills carefully. Including > > > gratuity varies by establishment. At the bottom of your bill in > > > France, you will see "service compris or service non compris" and words > > > to that effect in other countries. We were surprised the first couple > > > of times we saw non compris because we thought gratuity was always > > > included. > > > > I know that they have to put Service Compris on the bill if it is included, > > have seen some without it, but have never seen non compris. I made a habit of > > asking. A waitress told me that they have to have service compris on the bill > > if it is included, except in Paris, because in Paris it has to be included. > > We were in Paris for 9 days last month, Dave. I think only one bill > (the first one, of course) did not clearly indicate if gratuity was > included or not. Maybe they are trying to make it easier for first > timer American tourists now. In many Asian cultures there is no tipping. In fact, giving a tip in Japan would either offend ("I don't require extra money to do my job with pride!") or confuse ("why did you leave money on the table?") the recipient. Now that Europe receives a large number of Asian tourists, having bills that don't include service would mean that many Asians would simply not tip. And of course, if they included service charges without marking the bill, many clueless Americans would wind up paying double tips.     Date: 12 Aug 2006 15:26:03 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Iceman writes: > In many Asian cultures there is no tipping. In fact, giving a tip in > Japan would either offend ("I don't require extra money to do my job > with pride!") or confuse ("why did you leave money on the table?") the > recipient. Sounds good to me. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 11 Aug 2006 23:18:10 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > sf wrote: > > > > > > I don't know about Italy, but in many parts of western Europe, service is > > > automatically included in the price. If something says 5 Euros, it's 5 > > > Euros, tax and service included. > > > > Next time you travel, be sure to read your bills carefully. Including > > gratuity varies by establishment. At the bottom of your bill in > > France, you will see "service compris or service non compris" and words > > to that effect in other countries. We were surprised the first couple > > of times we saw non compris because we thought gratuity was always > > included. > > I know that they have to put Service Compris on the bill if it is included, > have seen some without it, but have never seen non compris. I made a habit of > asking. A waitress told me that they have to have service compris on the bill > if it is included, except in Paris, because in Paris it has to be included. We were in Paris for 9 days last month, Dave. I think only one bill (the first one, of course) did not clearly indicate if gratuity was included or not. Maybe they are trying to make it easier for first timer American tourists now.     Date: 12 Aug 2006 11:52:59 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf writes: > We were in Paris for 9 days last month, Dave. I think only one bill > (the first one, of course) did not clearly indicate if gratuity was > included or not. Maybe they are trying to make it easier for first > timer American tourists now. Most American tourists do not read French, so whether or not it is on the bill makes little difference. They are usually surprised when I tell them that the tip is always included. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.       Date: 12 Aug 2006 07:51:53 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com > wrote in news:s69rd21oj9kf929mu01urthtab6ll2avob@4ax.com: > They are usually surprised when I > tell them that the tip is always included. Actually, service is not the tip. What you call a tip is a "pourboire", a sum of money handed to the staff in appreciation and literally meaning "for drink". Service is a guaranteed amount which constitutes the employee's remuneration and is based on a percentage of the sale. Which is to say that people serving in restaurants and cafés in France (and elsewhere) are commissioned and the amount is included up front so you exactly what it is. You are still free to express your satisfaction with a pourboire which is over and above the actual "salary" of the employee. -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell   Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:34:42 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > sf wrote: > > > > right out in the open on crowded streets. We stayed in hotel one night, > > > and one night only, where half the time you looked out the window some > > > drunk was pissing on the sidewalk. > > > > > > > Good grief. What ghetto area were you in? I don't think it gets that > > bad here - even in the Tenderloin (San Francisco). > > We were right across the street from the Moulin Rouge in Pigaille. My brother's > travel agent neighbour booked it for us. We had an amazing view from our hotel > room windows. Looking up to the top of Montmarte we had a nice view of Sacre > Couer. Panning down there was the interesting skyline of the area, until you get > down to ground level to see all the signs for the sex shops, live sex shows. > Looking down at the side street below you stood a 50-50 chance of catching > someone having a leak. > Sounds like the type of area where that sort of thing goes on. > > I don't blame the Parisians for the litter on the streets. Like most places I > have visited in Europe, litter is much more common in the places that attract > tourists. The streets of Pigaille are swept clean every morning, and the > streets and sidewalks are washed down with lots and lots of water. It is the > morning flush. Yes, I'm familiar with that. Love it, but am not sure how enviornmentally sound the flushing is. Is the water processed before it's expelled? It's wonderful to see the streets and especially the sidewalks cleaned on a daily basis. Paris also has many convenient garbage cans for the public to put their trash in, but by evening the place is filthy again... no matter where you are downtown. Too bad. I watched people toss small pieces of paper onto the sidewalk that could easily have gone into a pocket or just held for a few more feet until they reached the garbage can. Enviornmental awareness isn't universal, that's for sure.     Date: 12 Aug 2006 11:51:14 From: Mxsmanic Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf writes: > Yes, I'm familiar with that. Love it, but am not sure how > enviornmentally sound the flushing is. Is the water processed before > it's expelled? I believe it is screened to remove debris; otherwise I don't believe that it is processed, since it's no dirtier than storm runoff, and it goes through the same system (which is separate from the sanitary sewer system). I'm citing this from memory so I cannot guarantee the details. > It's wonderful to see the streets and especially the > sidewalks cleaned on a daily basis. Paris also has many convenient > garbage cans for the public to put their trash in, but by evening the > place is filthy again... no matter where you are downtown. The French have very little sense of social responsibility when it comes to keeping the city clean. Tourists are even worse. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.   Date: 12 Aug 2006 16:40:47 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > > It's odd, but I always hear of people being treated do badly in > restaurants and hotels in Quebec, and more often then not it happened to > a friend or relative. I have never had anything but very good service > there. > When we visited Montreal and Quebec City, our experience was the same as yours. Unfailingly good service and not a grouch in sight.... even when we got lost and had to ask directions.   Date: 12 Aug 2006 16:36:52 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > "sf" <sfpipeline@gmail.com> wrote in > > > > ABSOLUTELY (I detest everything you mentioned) and the service > > isn't rushed either. > > Part of that is because the people waiting on you are either the > owners (in smaller restaurants) or people who serve on a professional > basis. Being a waiter is a not a summer or part-time job or an after > school job, it is generally considered full-time employment. > > In Montreal, more and more restaurants employ persons who have > qualified at the Institut de tourisme et d'hotellerie du Qu=E9bec's 1 > year certificate course on professional restaurant service. > I believe it. The absolute best waiter we had was in Bath, England at the Pump Room. I swear he graduated from butler school. He was young (30ish if that) and gave us totally formal service. I haven't experienced that in years! We would have gone back and requested him, but it was his last day there and he wasn't going to begin his new job as head waiter in another establishment until the end of August so we couldn't follow him.   Date: 12 Aug 2006 13:53:15 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Dave Smith wrote: > sf wrote: > > > > > Thank you. I had no idea they were commissioned employees. I just > > don't see how it would work. They certainly don't act like they are > > working on commission, there is no upselling and more than one wait > > staff serviced the tables in many of the places where I ate. > > That's the nice part about it isn't' it? > I have come to dislike all the tip generating behaviour in wait staff these > days, like crouching down, introducing themselves, upselling, silly smiley > faces on the bills etc. ABSOLUTELY (I detest everything you mentioned) and the service isn't rushed either.     Date: 12 Aug 2006 16:44:23 From: Michel Boucher Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences "sf" <sfpipeline@gmail.com > wrote in news:1155415995.415632.181700@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: >> > Thank you. I had no idea they were commissioned employees. I >> > just don't see how it would work. They certainly don't act >> > like they are working on commission, there is no upselling and >> > more than one wait staff serviced the tables in many of the >> > places where I ate. >> >> That's the nice part about it isn't' it? >> I have come to dislike all the tip generating behaviour in wait >> staff these days, like crouching down, introducing themselves, >> upselling, silly smiley faces on the bills etc. > > ABSOLUTELY (I detest everything you mentioned) and the service > isn't rushed either. Part of that is because the people waiting on you are either the owners (in smaller restaurants) or people who serve on a professional basis. Being a waiter is a not a summer or part-time job or an after school job, it is generally considered full-time employment. In Montreal, more and more restaurants employ persons who have qualified at the Institut de tourisme et d'hotellerie du Québec's 1 year certificate course on professional restaurant service. http://www.ithq.qc.ca/en/academics.php?prog=12 The certificate ensures that the employee is professionally trained and can do wine service, informal and formal service, pleasant conversation (in both officious languages) etc. None of this money- oriented fawning which sours a meal. Now, knowing this group, I'm sure someone will pipe up with their uncle Arthur's horror story of the time he was looked down upon at a Montréal restaurant for asking for ketchup (in English) to put on his boeuf en croûte. Well, tough noogies...:-) -- "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell       Date: 12 Aug 2006 19:27:54 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > > > ABSOLUTELY (I detest everything you mentioned) and the service > > isn't rushed either. > > Part of that is because the people waiting on you are either the > owners (in smaller restaurants) or people who serve on a professional > basis. Being a waiter is a not a summer or part-time job or an after > school job, it is generally considered full-time employment. > > In Montreal, more and more restaurants employ persons who have > qualified at the Institut de tourisme et d'hotellerie du Qu=E9bec's 1 > year certificate course on professional restaurant service. > > http://www.ithq.qc.ca/en/academics.php?prog=3D12 > > The certificate ensures that the employee is professionally trained > and can do wine service, informal and formal service, pleasant > conversation (in both officious languages) etc. None of this money- > oriented fawning which sours a meal. > > Now, knowing this group, I'm sure someone will pipe up with their > uncle Arthur's horror story of the time he was looked down upon at a > Montr=E9al restaurant for asking for ketchup (in English) to put on his= > boeuf en cro=FBte. Well, tough noogies...:-) It's odd, but I always hear of people being treated do badly in restaurants and hotels in Quebec, and more often then not it happened to a friend or relative. I have never had anything bu very good service there. The worst that ever happened to me was asking for a Molson Golden and getting a Coca Cola, at two different places on the same trip. The only sauciness I ever got from a waitress in Montreal was in a vegetarian Indian place there. The place had an unbelievably inexpensive= dinner deal, $4.95 including dessert, though dessert was one little sweet= goody. I had had enough before I got to the rice. My son asked about dessert, and the waitress, the most unfortunate looking woman I ever saw,= short, dumpy, ugly, huge nose, no teeth said" Yes, it is included, but (pointing to me) he can not have dessert because he did not eat his rice." :-)   Date: 12 Aug 2006 16:43:07 From: Dave Smith Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences sf wrote: > > Thank you. I had no idea they were commissioned employees. I just > don't see how it would work. They certainly don't act like they are > working on commission, there is no upselling and more than one wait > staff serviced the tables in many of the places where I ate. That's the nice part about it isn't' it? I have come to dislike all the tip generating behaviour in wait staff these days, like crouching down, introducing themselves, upselling, silly smiley faces on the bills etc.   Date: 12 Aug 2006 12:09:46 From: sf Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences Michel Boucher wrote: > Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in > news:s69rd21oj9kf929mu01urthtab6ll2avob@4ax.com: > > > They are usually surprised when I > > tell them that the tip is always included. > > Actually, service is not the tip. > > What you call a tip is a "pourboire", a sum of money handed to the > staff in appreciation and literally meaning "for drink". > > Service is a guaranteed amount which constitutes the employee's > remuneration and is based on a percentage of the sale. Which is to say > that people serving in restaurants and caf=E9s in France (and elsewhere) > are commissioned and the amount is included up front so you exactly > what it is. You are still free to express your satisfaction with a > pourboire which is over and above the actual "salary" of the employee. > Thank you. I had no idea they were commissioned employees. I just don't see how it would work. They certainly don't act like they are working on commission, there is no upselling and more than one wait staff serviced the tables in many of the places where I ate. Most of the time we left an extra tip, but every now and then we didn't. If we got barebones service (rare), we just let it stand at service compris.   Date: 13 Aug 2006 15:54:23 From: Omniryx@gmail.com Subject: Re: Starbucks in France experiences The inability of people to say, "You're right, I blew it" is amazing isn't it? It was Cambridge MA, immediately following Harvard commencement and the foot girl was a fresh-minted PhD. Does it ever get warm enough in the real Cambridge to go barefoot??? EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: > Alan wrote: > > > "Zox" wrote > > > >>JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Some people live like animals. > >> > >>And the boy who didn't like my putting my > >>foot up was very much thinking and feeling > >>like an animal. An ape in particular, beating his chest, > >>pushing people around, making a minor thing > >>seem like a big offense. > > > > > > With your whiny, overdeveloped sense of entitlement, it's a wonder some > > "ape" hasn't beaten you to well-deserved bloody pulp . . . > > Too bad they haven't! Then he might have something genuine > to complain about. (At least it might persuade him to stay > home, not provide France with yet another example of a rude, > boorish American tourist!) > > > > >