| |
Main
Date: 05 Oct 2006 02:00:57
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Someone is going to get one hell of a machine for relatively little money!
This looks like the current production model & they sell new for $4000 -
$5000. It'll probably sell on eBay for $700 - $1200 - a steal.
Cimbali is a top performer, some call them the Porsche of espresso
machines.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160036926894
&fromMakeTrack=true
Robert (I'm tempted to jump all over this myself, but I won't!) Harmon
|
|
| |
Date: 04 Oct 2006 21:14:46
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
I've been watching eBay espresso listings because I am going to sell one or
two myself. However, I have noticed this week that a lot of them never get
a bid. It seems like the Krups/Braun/deLonghi types are getting some
action, but the high end home machines are getting relisted. They either go
without bids or don't reach reserve. Some are understandable, because
starting bids for used machines are sometimes higher than current retail,
even before shipping charges. But overall it seems to be a pretty slow
market right now. Are espresso machines a seasonal market?
"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:Xns9852D5C8F4064rhharmonZhotmailcom@207.217.125.201...
> Someone is going to get one hell of a machine for relatively little money!
> This looks like the current production model & they sell new for $4000 -
> $5000. It'll probably sell on eBay for $700 - $1200 - a steal.
|
| |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 07:09:01
From: daveb
Subject: WOW! ebay has stuff??
|
I think at this point harmon, most of us know how to find things on
ebay.
Dave "122" b
|
| | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 17:28:45
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: WOW! ebay has stuff??
|
"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in news:1160057341.835662.222520
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
> I think at this point harmon, most of us know how to find things on
> ebay.
>
> Dave "122" b
>
Hey Dave,
You're just like veryone else - they've all got assholes & your opinions
serve as a reminder that you are an asshole.
Have a good day, bub.
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.
|
| | | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 12:23:48
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: WOW! ebay has stuff??
|
Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
>"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote in news:1160057341.835662.222520
>@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I think at this point harmon, most of us know how to find things on
>> ebay.
>>
>> Dave "122" b
>>
>
>Hey Dave,
>You're just like veryone else - they've all got assholes & your opinions
>serve as a reminder that you are an asshole.
>
>Have a good day, bub.
>
>Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
Amazing.. If you remember, just a few days ago he was spamming his
business relationship with Chris Coffee and some machine they had
enhanced, and he even talked about the price they were charging. The
worst thing about it is that Chris use to have a decent reputation
around here IIRC. It is possible that Chris has not authorized nor
endorsed this spamming- I hope so. Maybe someone should bring it to
Chris' attention and let him know how his name is being used. It takes
a lot to establish a positive business name and reputation and little
to run it into the ground.
Randy "Chris? You listening?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 20:19:50
From: Mud Pup
Subject: Re: WOW! ebay has stuff??
|
Randy G. wrote:
>
> It is possible that Chris has not authorized nor
> endorsed this spamming- I hope so.
I would guess he hasn't. He has a sticky note in the home barista
marketplace, an appropriate place, AFAIK, so presumably he
knows what's inappropriate.
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 15:18:47
From:
Subject: Re: WOW! ebay has stuff??
|
Interesting. Leave for a few weeks, come back and find nothing
changes. Harmon's still an asshole and Randygeeman is still threatened
by the guy who actually contributes something of value as opposed to
than pompous opinions.
On Thu, 05 2006 12:23:48 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:
>Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote in news:1160057341.835662.222520
>>@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> I think at this point harmon, most of us know how to find things on
>>> ebay.
>>>
>>> Dave "122" b
>>>
>>
>>Hey Dave,
>>You're just like veryone else - they've all got assholes & your opinions
>>serve as a reminder that you are an asshole.
>>
>>Have a good day, bub.
>>
>>Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
>
>Amazing.. If you remember, just a few days ago he was spamming his
>business relationship with Chris Coffee and some machine they had
>enhanced, and he even talked about the price they were charging. The
>worst thing about it is that Chris use to have a decent reputation
>around here IIRC. It is possible that Chris has not authorized nor
>endorsed this spamming- I hope so. Maybe someone should bring it to
>Chris' attention and let him know how his name is being used. It takes
>a lot to establish a positive business name and reputation and little
>to run it into the ground.
>
>
> Randy "Chris? You listening?" G.
>http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>
_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.
|
| |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 00:31:09
From: anthony
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
It's interesting the seller isn't making any claims for its condition
... ie, not specifying that it's in good working order.
|
| | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 10:02:37
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
You're right! And that's why eBay has a contact seller feature, to pin
sellers down on the details.
--
Robert (The Devil's in the details.) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"anthony" <anthonyjhcnospam@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:1160033469.196472.272970@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It's interesting the seller isn't making any claims for its condition
> ... ie, not specifying that it's in good working order.
>
|
| | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 10:47:57
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
"anthony" > wrote in message
> It's interesting the seller isn't making any claims for its condition
> ... ie, not specifying that it's in good working order.
A Trabant .......... in Porshe clothing?
|
| |
Date: 04 Oct 2006 21:09:26
From: Erik Groomer
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
> Are espresso machines a seasonal market?
Yes.
|
| | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 09:17:27
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
What's the best season for sellers? I bought my Gaggia right after
Christmas, which I thought was a good time for buyers.
"Erik Groomer" <ViridianCoffee@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160021366.483852.317670@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Are espresso machines a seasonal market?
>
> Yes.
>
|
| | | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 12:14:36
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Any major gift giving season - before Christmas, before Father's Day.
Birthdays and new business startups are pretty well distributed year round.
"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in message
news:nN2dnbRWJeBzjrjYnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@news.ruraltel.net...
> What's the best season for sellers? I bought my Gaggia right after
> Christmas, which I thought was a good time for buyers.
>
> "Erik Groomer" <ViridianCoffee@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1160021366.483852.317670@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> Are espresso machines a seasonal market?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
>
|
| |
Date: 06 Oct 2006 08:42:33
From: daveb
Subject: rg has stuff??
|
oh, he sees my writings when someone else quotes me.
that is why he is STILL responding! Mr. RJ.
as to why so bitter, angry, etc., I do not know.
Dave "123" b
877 286 2833
|
| |
Date: 06 Oct 2006 08:41:46
From: daveb
Subject: rg has stuff??
|
oh, he sees my writings when someone else quotes me.
that is why he is STILL responding! -- RJ
as to why so bitter, angry, etc. I do not know.
Dave "123" b
877 286 2833
Rough-Jaw wrote:
> On Thu, 05 2006 13:23:48 -0700, Randy G. wrote:
>
> > Amazing.. If you remember, just a few days ago he was spamming his
> > business relationship with Chris Coffee and some machine they had
> > enhanced, and he even talked about the price they were charging. The
> > worst thing about it is that Chris use to have a decent reputation
> > around here IIRC. It is possible that Chris has not authorized nor
> > endorsed this spamming- I hope so. Maybe someone should bring it to
> > Chris' attention and let him know how his name is being used. It takes
> > a lot to establish a positive business name and reputation and little
> > to run it into the ground.
>
> He's still spamming, but nobody replies. Lucky you. You don't ever see
> his boorish spew.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 15 Oct 2006 19:21:07
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
"Robert Harmon" wrote in message
> Someone is going to get one hell of a machine for relatively little money!
> This looks like the current production model & they sell new for $4000 -
> $5000. It'll probably sell on eBay for $700 - $1200 - a steal.
>
Yep, went for $1200 in the end. A couple of 2 group Cimbali finished on eBay
uk this morning :-
M30 Classic http://tinyurl.com/y8hdvq failed starting price of £380
M20 http://tinyurl.com/y3hcm9 1 successful bid at £350
Cheap but risky I guess, if their from bankrupt cafes - you may loose the
maintenance history.
BD
|
| |
Date: 16 Oct 2006 08:58:25
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Bertie Doe wrote:
> "Robert Harmon" wrote in message
> > Someone is going to get one hell of a machine for relatively little mon=
ey!
> > This looks like the current production model & they sell new for $4000 -
> > $5000. It'll probably sell on eBay for $700 - $1200 - a steal.
> >
> Yep, went for $1200 in the end. A couple of 2 group Cimbali finished on e=
Bay
> uk this morning :-
>
> M30 Classic http://tinyurl.com/y8hdvq failed starting price of =A3380
> M20 http://tinyurl.com/y3hcm9 1 successful bid at =A3350
>
> Cheap but risky I guess, if their from bankrupt cafes - you may loose the
> maintenance history.
>
> BD
Interesting. I wonder what the average life expectancy is for a
commercial like that? The M30 is certainly at least 3rd-hand having
maintenance stickers from London, and the south-west a couple of
hundred miles away, and was now sold from Stratford upon Avon a hundred
or so miles from either. The steam wands were worn down to the brass
and no doubt the PFs were a loose fit in the group. The seller of the
M20 said it was ~18 yrs old. It's certainly a lot of metal for the
money, but at what point does a machine like that become uneconomic to
repair?
|
| | |
Date: 16 Oct 2006 16:12:31
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
"Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com > wrote in
news:1161014305.410334.218960@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> Bertie Doe wrote:
>> "Robert Harmon" wrote in message
>> > Someone is going to get one hell of a machine for relatively little
>> > mon
> ey!
>> > This looks like the current production model & they sell new for
>> > $4000 - $5000. It'll probably sell on eBay for $700 - $1200 - a
>> > steal.
>> >
>> Yep, went for $1200 in the end. A couple of 2 group Cimbali finished
>> on e
> Bay
>> uk this morning :-
>>
>> M30 Classic http://tinyurl.com/y8hdvq failed starting price of £380
>> M20 http://tinyurl.com/y3hcm9 1 successful bid at £350
>>
>> Cheap but risky I guess, if their from bankrupt cafes - you may loose
>> the maintenance history.
>>
>> BD
>
> Interesting. I wonder what the average life expectancy is for a
> commercial like that? The M30 is certainly at least 3rd-hand having
> maintenance stickers from London, and the south-west a couple of
> hundred miles away, and was now sold from Stratford upon Avon a
> hundred or so miles from either. The steam wands were worn down to
> the brass and no doubt the PFs were a loose fit in the group. The
> seller of the M20 said it was ~18 yrs old. It's certainly a lot of
> metal for the money, but at what point does a machine like that become
> uneconomic to repair?
>
>
FYI; I don't know if any of the espresso machine makers do enough
desructive testing to be able to put out meaningful MTBF statistics. But
I do know that there is no 'life espectancy' for any machine if you mean
free of repair & maintenance work. It's pretty much a matter of doing the
preventitve maintenance & luck of the draw as to whether the part that
breaks is a $1 or $500 piece.
It's more a matter of parts availability than cost. If you can find them
the electrics might set you back $30 to $200 per piece, wiring, gaskets &
o-rings are cheap. But repairing some of these older machines turns into
a scavenger hunt. I've been forced from time to time to buy whole
machines just to get parts for a current project (but the up side to this
is I usually have parts for another project or to share with friends).
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.
|
| |
Date: 17 Oct 2006 06:36:34
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Robert Harmon wrote:
> "Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1161014305.410334.218960@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > Bertie Doe wrote:
> >> "Robert Harmon" wrote in message
> >> > Someone is going to get one hell of a machine for relatively little
> >> > mon
> > ey!
> >> > This looks like the current production model & they sell new for
> >> > $4000 - $5000. It'll probably sell on eBay for $700 - $1200 - a
> >> > steal.
> >> >
> >> Yep, went for $1200 in the end. A couple of 2 group Cimbali finished
> >> on e
> > Bay
> >> uk this morning :-
> >>
> >> M30 Classic http://tinyurl.com/y8hdvq failed starting price of =A3380
> >> M20 http://tinyurl.com/y3hcm9 1 successful bid at =A3350
> >>
> >> Cheap but risky I guess, if their from bankrupt cafes - you may loose
> >> the maintenance history.
> >>
> >> BD
> >
> > Interesting. I wonder what the average life expectancy is for a
> > commercial like that? The M30 is certainly at least 3rd-hand having
> > maintenance stickers from London, and the south-west a couple of
> > hundred miles away, and was now sold from Stratford upon Avon a
> > hundred or so miles from either. The steam wands were worn down to
> > the brass and no doubt the PFs were a loose fit in the group. The
> > seller of the M20 said it was ~18 yrs old. It's certainly a lot of
> > metal for the money, but at what point does a machine like that become
> > uneconomic to repair?
> >
> >
> FYI; I don't know if any of the espresso machine makers do enough
> desructive testing to be able to put out meaningful MTBF statistics. But
> I do know that there is no 'life espectancy' for any machine if you mean
> free of repair & maintenance work. It's pretty much a matter of doing the
> preventitve maintenance & luck of the draw as to whether the part that
> breaks is a $1 or $500 piece.
>
> It's more a matter of parts availability than cost. If you can find them
> the electrics might set you back $30 to $200 per piece, wiring, gaskets &
> o-rings are cheap. But repairing some of these older machines turns into
> a scavenger hunt. I've been forced from time to time to buy whole
> machines just to get parts for a current project (but the up side to this
> is I usually have parts for another project or to share with friends).
>
Thanks. Do you know what the situation is with replacing groups?
Presumably these must get worn out over time due to the frequent
metal-to-metal rubbing with the PF? With an E61, the cost of a new
group must be a major chunk of the machine's overall value?
I take your point that most parts are not expensive to replace, but I
imagine that with very well-worn machines there comes a time when many
things are worn to a point where they could do with replacing in the
short term, especially if the preventative maintenance has been
neglected; e.g. steam/water valves, seals, pump, heater, p-stat, level
switch whatever, and this would outweigh the purchase price?
With second-hand cars it's pretty straightforward even for a non-expert
to compare present value against potential value with cost of parts and
repairs and make an informed purchase decision. Whereas with espresso
m/cs, there aren't those tables of value against age/mileage/condition,
and valuing an ebay lot is of course harder still.
Perhaps old commercials on ebay are only really suitable for someone
who has the facilities and inclination to carry out fairly major
repairs if needed, and view the restoration as a hobby, rather than for
someone wanting a machine to work from the off, because there's
basically no reliable way to assess the condition from a distance.
Anyway just thinking out loud . . .
|
| | |
Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:07:05
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
"Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com > wrote in
news:1161092194.367938.302860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> Perhaps old commercials on ebay are only really suitable for someone
> who has the facilities and inclination to carry out fairly major
> repairs if needed, and view the restoration as a hobby, rather than
> for someone wanting a machine to work from the off, because there's
> basically no reliable way to assess the condition from a distance.
> Anyway just thinking out loud . . .
>
>
Howdy Phil!
Shhhh, don't think so loudly or you'll wake the neighbor's baby. ;)
I understand your concern & if you want a machine to use right now then
you're better off buying new or at least a fully reconditioned machine
from someone with a good reputation; like me. ;)
I've torn into many used consumer grade espresso machines as well as a
handful of commercial models. The pro machines are more complicated,
especially the automatic dosing type but both types are basically the same
with one having more robust pieces.
That said, by asking the right questions & holding eBay to it's buyer
protection policies one can expect to get a used commercial machine with
relatively few problems.
Other than electrics there is very little to go seriously wrong in an
espresso machine. Valve or gasket leaking? Buy new o-rings or gasket & fix
it. If the control panel or IC card gets fried then you're looking at some
big bucks, but these are the things you should be asking about.
Fixing these old (10 - 15) machines is a hoot. And heck if it was difficult
do you really think I'd be doing it?
Good Luck!
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.
|
| | |
Date: 19 Oct 2006 16:47:43
From: Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
On 17 2006 06:36:34 -0700, "Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com > wrote:
>With second-hand cars it's pretty straightforward even for a non-expert
>to compare present value against potential value with cost of parts and
>repairs and make an informed purchase decision. Whereas with espresso
>m/cs, there aren't those tables of value against age/mileage/condition,
>and valuing an ebay lot is of course harder still.
People get foxed on used cars all the time. It's easy to disguise
major problems so they outlive the warranty, if there is one. Gearbox
noisy? Pack it with pantyhose. Differential going "wow-wow-wow"?
Get some bananas ....
>Perhaps old commercials on ebay are only really suitable for someone
>who has the facilities and inclination to carry out fairly major
>repairs if needed, and view the restoration as a hobby, rather than for
>someone wanting a machine to work from the off, because there's
>basically no reliable way to assess the condition from a distance.
>Anyway just thinking out loud . . .
When it comes to espresso machines, I'm strictly an amateur. My
first, and only, commercial machine is a two-group La Marzocco GS-2,
which I bought (through eBay) in known-bad, partially-disassembled
condition. Since I'd never seen the inside of a commercial espresso
machine before I got the GS-2, it took a little head-scratching to
figure out some of the details, but fixing it up wasn't too hard.
All the parts were available from a single source, I found part
numbers and assembly drawings for the manual groups on the Internet,
and none of the work required exceeded the capabilities of a decent
handyman with a voltmeter, a propane torch, and a set of metric
wrenches.
It probably took me 10 times as long to do it as it would have taken a
pro, but I had the time.
After the rebuild, in 2001, it has worked very well. There have been
minor repairs, but no show-stoppers. I rebuilt the groups about a
year ago, etc. Most problems give you _lots_ of warning.
Total cost to date?
Machine: 600
Parts for first rebuild: 200
Parts for group rebuild: 100
Incidental parts along the way 100
-----------
Total $1,000
My machine is not in commercial use, but it was for the first 25 years
of its life, and certainly could be again. In commercial use, I'd
expect twice-yearly group rebuilds, quarterly steam-valve rebuilds
(about $10 in parts), and quarterly group-to-portafilter gaskets
(another $10).
It's hell for stout, all mechanical except for the auto-fill (and that
has a manual override), and generally immortal. It will run as long
as you can find the parts or have them made. You can have a lot of
parts made for the price difference between my GS-2 and a new FB-70.
-Shel
|
| | | |
Date: 20 Oct 2006 00:16:05
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Well put, Sheldon. I've been trying to convince people that working on these
things isn't rocket science. It's been my impression that a good trade
school education or OJT program are all that's needed to qualify as a
technician. The one thing that makes working on them even slightly difficult
is the lack of technical manuals. But with help to be had here & other
online forums manuals aren't really necessary anyways. Rebuilding a
commercial machine is very satisfying plus you get to consume the results.
Just don't be intimidated & remember it's all a do over if you do make a
mistake.
--
Robert (half the fun of having a new toy is taking it apart to see how it
works) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
"Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL" <aquaman@tandem.artell.net > wrote in message
news:8c2gj2h4sv0smi86ujhme1af7dkqarufdr@4ax.com...
snipped
> It will run as long
> as you can find the parts or have them made. You can have a lot of
> parts made for the price difference between my GS-2 and a new FB-70.
>
> -Shel
>
|
| | | |
Date: 20 Oct 2006 01:02:03
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
"Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL" <aquaman@tandem.artell.net > wrote in message
news:8c2gj2h4sv0smi86ujhme1af7dkqarufdr@4ax.com...
> >
> After the rebuild, in 2001, it has worked very well. There have been
> minor repairs, but no show-stoppers. I rebuilt the groups about a
> year ago, etc. Most problems give you _lots_ of warning.
>
> Total cost to date?
>
> Machine: 600
> Parts for first rebuild: 200
> Parts for group rebuild: 100
> Incidental parts along the way 100
> -----------
> Total $1,000
>
> My machine is not in commercial use, but it was for the first 25 years
> of its life, and certainly could be again. In commercial use, I'd
> expect twice-yearly group rebuilds, quarterly steam-valve rebuilds
> (about $10 in parts), and quarterly group-to-portafilter gaskets
> (another $10).
>
> It's hell for stout, all mechanical except for the auto-fill (and that
> has a manual override), and generally immortal. It will run as long
> as you can find the parts or have them made. You can have a lot of
> parts made for the price difference between my GS-2 and a new FB-70.
>
> -Shel
>
Shel,
Here's a really stupid question, and maybe the answer is something
particular to LMs and has no application to a Cimbali. What exactly do you
mean by a "group rebuild?" I have never done such a thing in my 10+ years
of Cimbali Junior(s) ownership. I have replaced group gaskets and screens
regularly, cleaned everything up nicely, even replaced a group bell recently
mostly for cosmetic reasons. I've even removed a group from the boiler/HX
complex (granted, this is a HX machine and not a double boiler), replaced
the HX (which could have just been descaled, which I did later and retain
that one as a spare).
Could you please let me know what is involved in rebuilding the group of an
LM?
ken
|
| | | | |
Date: 22 Oct 2006 10:20:30
From: Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
On Fri, 20 2006 01:02:03 -0600, "Ken Fox"
<morceaudemerde@snipThisPleaseHotmail.com > wrote:
[snip tale of my acquisition and rebuild of my La Marzocco GS-2]
>Here's a really stupid question, and maybe the answer is something
>particular to LMs and has no application to a Cimbali. What exactly do you
>mean by a "group rebuild?" I have never done such a thing in my 10+ years
>of Cimbali Junior(s) ownership. I have replaced group gaskets and screens
>regularly, cleaned everything up nicely, even replaced a group bell recently
>mostly for cosmetic reasons. I've even removed a group from the boiler/HX
>complex (granted, this is a HX machine and not a double boiler), replaced
>the HX (which could have just been descaled, which I did later and retain
>that one as a spare).
>
>Could you please let me know what is involved in rebuilding the group of an
>LM?
The GS-2 uses LM's old "manual" groups. They have a rotary valve
which is actuated by the barists. To seal the rotary valve and its
shaft, they have about half a dozen O-rings and three teflon seals,
all of which are wearing parts and have to be replaced from time to
time. It's _lots_ different from a group that uses a solenoid valve
and is otherwise free from moving parts.
Diagram at http://espressoparts.com/category/03.01.lamarzocco.01/
In my case, the O-rings didn't so much wear as just get over-brittle
from the heat, over a period of three years. Once they dry out, they
crack, and you get a little leak. So one of the groups started
dripping. I let it drip for several weeks, since it was only a drop
now and then. It wasn't fixing itself, though, so I had to do it.
Since I had rebuilt the groups when I rebuilt the machine before, and
could get a complete kit of parts, it took about two hours from the
time I pulled the plug until I pulled a test shot. No drama. In a
commercial setting, I'd do it after hours.
-Shel
|
| |
Date: 18 Oct 2006 01:58:49
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Robert Harmon wrote:
> "Phil P" <charneybarn@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1161092194.367938.302860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > Perhaps old commercials on ebay are only really suitable for someone
> > who has the facilities and inclination to carry out fairly major
> > repairs if needed, and view the restoration as a hobby, rather than
> > for someone wanting a machine to work from the off, because there's
> > basically no reliable way to assess the condition from a distance.
> > Anyway just thinking out loud . . .
> >
> >
>
> Howdy Phil!
>
> Shhhh, don't think so loudly or you'll wake the neighbor's baby. ;)
>
> I understand your concern & if you want a machine to use right now then
> you're better off buying new or at least a fully reconditioned machine
> from someone with a good reputation; like me. ;)
>
> I've torn into many used consumer grade espresso machines as well as a
> handful of commercial models. The pro machines are more complicated,
> especially the automatic dosing type but both types are basically the same
> with one having more robust pieces.
>
> That said, by asking the right questions & holding eBay to it's buyer
> protection policies one can expect to get a used commercial machine with
> relatively few problems.
>
> Other than electrics there is very little to go seriously wrong in an
> espresso machine. Valve or gasket leaking? Buy new o-rings or gasket & fix
> it. If the control panel or IC card gets fried then you're looking at some
> big bucks, but these are the things you should be asking about.
>
> Fixing these old (10 - 15) machines is a hoot. And heck if it was difficult
> do you really think I'd be doing it?
>
> Good Luck!
>
Thanks, I think you've convinced me, the next upgrade will be a s/h
small commercial, just need to do some more research so as I'll know
what questions to ask!
|
| |
Date: 23 Oct 2006 04:49:06
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: WOW! La Cimbali M32 Bistro 1-group on eBay
|
Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL wrote:
> On Fri, 20 2006 01:02:03 -0600, "Ken Fox"
> <morceaudemerde@snipThisPleaseHotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip tale of my acquisition and rebuild of my La Marzocco GS-2]
>
> >Here's a really stupid question, and maybe the answer is something
> >particular to LMs and has no application to a Cimbali. What exactly do you
> >mean by a "group rebuild?" I have never done such a thing in my 10+ years
> >of Cimbali Junior(s) ownership. I have replaced group gaskets and screens
> >regularly, cleaned everything up nicely, even replaced a group bell recently
> >mostly for cosmetic reasons. I've even removed a group from the boiler/HX
> >complex (granted, this is a HX machine and not a double boiler), replaced
> >the HX (which could have just been descaled, which I did later and retain
> >that one as a spare).
> >
> >Could you please let me know what is involved in rebuilding the group of an
> >LM?
>
> The GS-2 uses LM's old "manual" groups. They have a rotary valve
> which is actuated by the barists. To seal the rotary valve and its
> shaft, they have about half a dozen O-rings and three teflon seals,
> all of which are wearing parts and have to be replaced from time to
> time. It's _lots_ different from a group that uses a solenoid valve
> and is otherwise free from moving parts.
>
> Diagram at http://espressoparts.com/category/03.01.lamarzocco.01/
>
> In my case, the O-rings didn't so much wear as just get over-brittle
> from the heat, over a period of three years. Once they dry out, they
> crack, and you get a little leak. So one of the groups started
> dripping. I let it drip for several weeks, since it was only a drop
> now and then. It wasn't fixing itself, though, so I had to do it.
>
> Since I had rebuilt the groups when I rebuilt the machine before, and
> could get a complete kit of parts, it took about two hours from the
> time I pulled the plug until I pulled a test shot. No drama. In a
> commercial setting, I'd do it after hours.
>
> -Shel
Thanks for the info Sheldon; a real-world example is always helpful to
get a handle on things. The rugged simplicity of older machines that
you mention is definitely appealing after reading about the costs
involved with replacing electronic control boards etc. Thanks also for
those used car tips; I have a 13 year old volkwagen I need to sell-on
soon . . . . ;-)
|
|
