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Main
Date: 25 Jun 2006 14:55:15
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: after-dinner espresso...
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...at an italian restaurant.
$250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:06:47
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:55:15 GMT, Barry Jarrett
<barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
>
>...at an italian restaurant.
>
>$250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
>http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
So, you're upset 'cause they spilled some?
Marshall
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 18:17:11
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:06:47 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:55:15 GMT, Barry Jarrett
><barry@rileys-coffee.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>...at an italian restaurant.
>>
>>$250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>>
>>http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
>
>So, you're upset 'cause they spilled some?
actually, that was the first thing the waitress apologized for when i
commented about the espresso having "monumental suckage".
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 13:12:39
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:06:47 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
>>...at an italian restaurant.
>>
>>$250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>>
>>http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
>
>So, you're upset 'cause they spilled some?
only some
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 13:42:40
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Marshall wrote:
> So, you're upset 'cause they spilled some?
You didn't notice a more important deficiency?
--
St. John
What does "it" mean in the sentence, "What time is it?"
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:59:02
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:42:40 -0400, "St. John Smythe"
<sinjen@n4vu.com > wrote:
>Marshall wrote:
>
>> So, you're upset 'cause they spilled some?
>
>You didn't notice a more important deficiency?
Not all jokes come with smilies.
Marshall
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 10:14:01
From: notbob
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On 2006-06-25, Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
> $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
Almost as bad as the 6-7oz double shot I was once served. A really
bad coffee/bean shop that, not surprisingly, went under.
nb
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 15:08:23
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Looks incredibly familiar. Were you in Florida? Hope you sent it back,
and offered to help make it better. If not, you would be terrifically
embarrased to dine with me or Karen....al
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:55:15 GMT, Barry Jarrett
<barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
>
>...at an italian restaurant.
>
>$250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
>http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 15:17:20
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:08:23 GMT, sprsso <acritzer@cfl.rr.com > wrote:
>
>Looks incredibly familiar. Were you in Florida? Hope you sent it back,
>and offered to help make it better. If not, you would be terrifically
>embarrased to dine with me or Karen....al
>
i was goaded into ordering it by our host, who knew that the whole
thing would be a trainwreck, so i didn't make a big fuss out of it.
besides, it turns out it would have been a wasted effort, as the
coffee apparently was out of a douwe egbert pushbutton machine.
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 08:02:05
From: daveb
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Disgraceful.
but I'm also hoping it was not $62.50 a cup! :)
(Excuse me, but where is the 'crema'?? -- Oh, it is over there on the
side board) direct quote at a now defunct California 'coffee'
franchise - Java Centrale
Makes that Nestle instant sound yummy!
Dave
Barry Jarrett wrote:
> ...at an italian restaurant.
>
> $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
> http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 23:18:25
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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In extreme cases like this, I'd do the same as if I was served food that was
inedible or wine that was spoiled - I'd politely tell the waitron that I'd
like to send the item back. If you've already spent $250, they won't argue
about taking $3 off the check. But mostly I know better than to order
espresso in a restaurant in the US.
"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:fq8t92deiepc5m5uc7god0fjl5m6ecl0e3@4ax.com...
>
> ...at an italian restaurant.
>
> $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
> http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
>
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 05:21:13
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Quoth "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net >:
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 19:45:01
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On 26 Jun 2006 05:21:13 GMT, "Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com > wrote:
>Quoth "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net>:
>
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 16:26:01
From: bernie digman
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Barry Jarrett wrote:
> ...at an italian restaurant.
>
> $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
> http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
>
You be on the bad dog list of restaurant owners in you area.
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the camera came out just to see the look on faces of
the staff. "Look at the bumpkin-bet he's never seen a real expresso."
Bernie
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 03:40:29
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:26:01 -0600, bernie digman <bdigman@zianet.com >
wrote:
> You be on the bad dog list of restaurant owners in you area.
that would be june...
she was actually referred to as "that coffee bitch" by a local
bartender.
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 22:18:10
From: bernie digman
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:26:01 -0600, bernie digman <bdigman@zianet.com>
> wrote:
>
> > You be on the bad dog list of restaurant owners in you area.
>
> that would be june...
>
> she was actually referred to as "that coffee bitch" by a local
> bartender.
>
Whoa. That sounds like a great slogan for a t-shirt. Never mind. I stay in enough p.c. poo as it
is without going to the expense of putting it on a t-shirt.
Bernie
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 22:19:55
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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bernie digman <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:
>Barry Jarrett wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:26:01 -0600, bernie digman <bdigman@zianet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > You be on the bad dog list of restaurant owners in you area.
>>
>> that would be june...
>>
>> she was actually referred to as "that coffee bitch" by a local
>> bartender.
>>
>
> Whoa. That sounds like a great slogan for a t-shirt. Never mind. I stay in enough p.c. poo as it
>is without going to the expense of putting it on a t-shirt.
-------------------------------
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 00:59:02
From: Steve
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:26:01 -0600, bernie digman <bdigman@zianet.com >
wrote:
>"Look at the bumpkin-bet he's never seen a real expresso."
LOL, I thought the same thing.
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 15:19:45
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:
>
>...at an italian restaurant.
>
>$250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
>http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
I hope when my fellow alties get served something like that
(especially after spending $85 per person for a dinner, in an Italian
restaurant!), that they complain at LEAST as loud as they do about my
posts here on alt.coffee.. ;-)
It looks like they were emptying the drip tray and some accidentally
missed the saucer and got into the cup.
Randy "that's coffee- not espresso, and it's barely coffee" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 20:32:21
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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If anyone served me anything that looked like that, the next thing I would
be doing is timing how fast the manager could make it to my table. Please,
please don't tell me that the stains were on the cup and saucer when it got
to you.
After showing the manager the absolute mess that was put in front of me, I
would probably tell him that if his establisment can't make espresso or
doesn't know what espresso is, then take it off the menu.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:fq8t92deiepc5m5uc7god0fjl5m6ecl0e3@4ax.com...
>
> ...at an italian restaurant.
>
> $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
> http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
>
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 20:55:22
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:32:21 GMT, "The Other Funk"
<bobbie@moondoggie.com > wrote:
>If anyone served me anything that looked like that, the next thing I would
>be doing is timing how fast the manager could make it to my table. Please,
>please don't tell me that the stains were on the cup and saucer when it got
>to you.
>After showing the manager the absolute mess that was put in front of me, I
>would probably tell him that if his establisment can't make espresso or
>doesn't know what espresso is, then take it off the menu.
>Bob
Why friends don't invite alties out to dinner....
Marshall
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 15:48:04
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:01ut921igiorasq33e9mn8tfq9sf042a2n@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:32:21 GMT, "The Other Funk"
> <bobbie@moondoggie.com> wrote:
>
>>If anyone served me anything that looked like that, the next thing I would
>>be doing is timing how fast the manager could make it to my table. Please,
>>please don't tell me that the stains were on the cup and saucer when it
>>got
>>to you.
>>After showing the manager the absolute mess that was put in front of me, I
>>would probably tell him that if his establisment can't make espresso or
>>doesn't know what espresso is, then take it off the menu.
>>Bob
>
> Why friends don't invite alties out to dinner....
>
> Marshall
I almost never order coffee in restaurants anymore, however when I look at
the drinks my dining companions are served, the picture that Barry shows is
at least as good as average, other than for the mess that was made on the
saucer. Had the server wiped off the cup and put it on a clean saucer, it
would not stand out. A lot of restaurant "espressos" have at least twice as
much volume as that one.
ken
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 17:59:44
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Ken Fox wrote:
> Had the server wiped off the cup and put it on a clean saucer, it
> would not stand out.
...except for the total absence of crema.
--
St. John
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 18:00:20
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
"St. John Smythe" <sinjen@n4vu.com > wrote in message
news:e7n10g$47i$23@n4vu2.n4vu.com...
> Ken Fox wrote:
>> Had the server wiped off the cup and put it on a clean saucer, it
>> would not stand out.
>
> ...except for the total absence of crema.
>
> --
> St. John
from what I have seen served, that does not stand out.
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 13:11:26
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote in message
news:fq8t92deiepc5m5uc7god0fjl5m6ecl0e3@4ax.com...
>
> ...at an italian restaurant.
>
> $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
>
> http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
>
was the dinner better?
ken
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 07:53:05
From: daveb
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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James at Fornobravo, nice guy.
who knew that pizza ovens were so complex?
Dave "vcfcuybtyt67omikbtykaq" b
Jack Denver wrote:
> Welcome, lurker!
>
> See this article:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3753575.stm
>
> and this
>
> http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/VPN_spec.html
>
> http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/pizza_napoletana.html
>
>
> You're of course right that it's not DOC which applies to wine but rather
> "STG" or Specialita' Traditionale Garantita, or Vera Pizza Napoletana (VPN)
> in the case of pizza.
>
>
> I think it would be a wonderful idea if something similar could be done for
> espresso and there could be a logo displayed if your establishment served
> "Vera Espresso Italiano" or somesuch - that way it would be less of a
> crapshoot when you ordered coffee.
>
>
> "Leo95se" <leo.zick@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151326818.238393.323880@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Donn Cave wrote:
> >> There's a pizza place a couple blocks from us, largish and very popular
> >> place that boasts an official `Denominazione di Origine Controllata'
> >> certification for Neapolitan pizza, which according to them has some
> >> legal status with the Italian government.
> >
> > my fist post here.. been reading for a while.. quite an amusing group
> > you all are!
> >
> > first - most restaurant espresso sucks. its really that simple. even if
> > it had any hope of having a decent crema on top, it would dissipate by
> > the time it got to you since the bartender (yes, bartender, not
> > barista, in most cases) makes it and it just waits until the server
> > gets it to you. oh how i miss italy for that.
> >
> > also, DOC is used for wine ratings by the italian govt. doc is itlays
> > 2nd highest rating, below docg, for govt approved wine that meets their
> > wine standards. id argue to say the VDT (vino di tavola), the lowest
> > 'rank' has equally as good wines since these tend to be produced by
> > local vineyards that dont want to pay for the better rankings. anyway,
> > this is a topic for another board :) still dont know how the wine
> > authorities are rating pizza now though!
> >
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 06:00:18
From: Leo95se
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
Donn Cave wrote:
> There's a pizza place a couple blocks from us, largish and very popular
> place that boasts an official `Denominazione di Origine Controllata'
> certification for Neapolitan pizza, which according to them has some
> legal status with the Italian government.
my fist post here.. been reading for a while.. quite an amusing group
you all are!
first - most restaurant espresso sucks. its really that simple. even if
it had any hope of having a decent crema on top, it would dissipate by
the time it got to you since the bartender (yes, bartender, not
barista, in most cases) makes it and it just waits until the server
gets it to you. oh how i miss italy for that.
also, DOC is used for wine ratings by the italian govt. doc is itlays
2nd highest rating, below docg, for govt approved wine that meets their
wine standards. id argue to say the VDT (vino di tavola), the lowest
'rank' has equally as good wines since these tend to be produced by
local vineyards that dont want to pay for the better rankings. anyway,
this is a topic for another board :) still dont know how the wine
authorities are rating pizza now though!
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 09:26:58
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
Welcome, lurker!
See this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3753575.stm
and this
http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/VPN_spec.html
http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/pizza_napoletana.html
You're of course right that it's not DOC which applies to wine but rather
"STG" or Specialita' Traditionale Garantita, or Vera Pizza Napoletana (VPN)
in the case of pizza.
I think it would be a wonderful idea if something similar could be done for
espresso and there could be a logo displayed if your establishment served
"Vera Espresso Italiano" or somesuch - that way it would be less of a
crapshoot when you ordered coffee.
"Leo95se" <leo.zick@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151326818.238393.323880@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Donn Cave wrote:
>> There's a pizza place a couple blocks from us, largish and very popular
>> place that boasts an official `Denominazione di Origine Controllata'
>> certification for Neapolitan pizza, which according to them has some
>> legal status with the Italian government.
>
> my fist post here.. been reading for a while.. quite an amusing group
> you all are!
>
> first - most restaurant espresso sucks. its really that simple. even if
> it had any hope of having a decent crema on top, it would dissipate by
> the time it got to you since the bartender (yes, bartender, not
> barista, in most cases) makes it and it just waits until the server
> gets it to you. oh how i miss italy for that.
>
> also, DOC is used for wine ratings by the italian govt. doc is itlays
> 2nd highest rating, below docg, for govt approved wine that meets their
> wine standards. id argue to say the VDT (vino di tavola), the lowest
> 'rank' has equally as good wines since these tend to be produced by
> local vineyards that dont want to pay for the better rankings. anyway,
> this is a topic for another board :) still dont know how the wine
> authorities are rating pizza now though!
>
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 11:28:47
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:26:58 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>I think it would be a wonderful idea if something similar could be done for
>espresso and there could be a logo displayed if your establishment served
>"Vera Espresso Italiano" or somesuch - that way it would be less of a
>crapshoot when you ordered coffee.
It exists in Italy; but I don't knoiw how many cafes or restaurants
try to get the cert:
http://www.espressoitaliano.org/eic_en.asp?lang=en
(they've spiffed up the site, added PDFs, and are selling the books.)
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 14:37:59
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
No overseas certs. as for pizza.
Seems to be more popular in the North -- a bunch of bars listed for Milan,
Siena, Florence, etc. Maybe 3 in Rome, none in Naples. And very few of the
major roasters have "qualified blends"
http://www.espressoitaliano.org/doc/Miscele%20qualificate.pdf
The site doesn't really explain the standard other than to say you need a
"qualified machine" and use "qualified blends", without saying what it takes
to be qualified.
"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:7a20a2haqtu0qh4fhu4mhu115olaa16rb7@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:26:58 -0400, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>I think it would be a wonderful idea if something similar could be done
>>for
>>espresso and there could be a logo displayed if your establishment served
>>"Vera Espresso Italiano" or somesuch - that way it would be less of a
>>crapshoot when you ordered coffee.
>
> It exists in Italy; but I don't knoiw how many cafes or restaurants
> try to get the cert:
>
> http://www.espressoitaliano.org/eic_en.asp?lang=en
>
> (they've spiffed up the site, added PDFs, and are selling the books.)
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 14:29:37
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:37:59 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>
>http://www.espressoitaliano.org/doc/Miscele%20qualificate.pdf
>
>The site doesn't really explain the standard other than to say you need a
>"qualified machine" and use "qualified blends", without saying what it takes
>to be qualified.
Presumably, one has to pay for the certification, whatever it is. It
is unlikely to make the least bit of business difference for locals'
cafes or even cafes catering to non-italian tourists; so their only
logical market is cafes catering to Italian business travellers.
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 06:32:13
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
Quoth "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net >:
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 19:03:14
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
|
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 19:52:26
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
Actually, I encourage my clients to let the bartender do the drink
preparation. Their focus is in preparing liquid consumables and
generally do a much better job than the general staff.
The key is in the training. Which drinks to prepare first and last,
how many drinks to take to the table at a time, how fast to get them
there.
I may have told this story before, but please bear with me.
On many occasions during my employ with illy, the executives of the
company would come over from Italy and Unic's owner and senior tech
would accompany them.
On one particular visit, the group included Dr. illy, Andrea,
Francesco, Michelle, and others that brought the number to 12. We met
in Scottsdale, which at the time was the main branch in the US. We
were treated to dinner at what was considered the best Italian
restaurant in the Phoenix area and an illy client.
At the end of a fantastic meal, all 12 of us ordered espresso. This
was to be our dessert.
Well, the coffee was prepared by staff, and all 12 came out at once,
engendering a discussion concerning which were made earliest and which
were prepared just before delivery to the table. It was pretty
obvious.
Dr. illy got the freshest, his sons got the next best, and the
national technical manger and myself adjourned to the kitchen to
evaluate the machine and do an impromtu training of management and
servers.
We placed another order of 12 at the table, and this time the staff
brought out 2 at a time.
Subsequent visits after that meeting proved that the training done
that evening resulted in much better cups at the table, from what I
was told.
The problem with even the best restaurants is that the wrong staff is
being trained most often. And they are being trained by technicians
who install equipment, don't have coffee knowledge, don't work past
4:30, so the dinner service staff are trained by those who may never
actually get an espresso order during the day.
Training in an effective way, that actually conveys some knowledge
that proves interesting, and sinks in (especially as it refers to the
value-added quality to the check, and that this usually is the last
thing a customer tastes before leaving the tip) seems to work for me.
Ongoing training is essential.
You will not get a bad espresso or espresso-based drinks from one of
my clients. They pay attention....al
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:03:14 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:
>
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 05:14:31
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
|
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 13:25:40
From: Alan
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
|
Marshall wrote:
> On 26 Jun 2006 05:21:13 GMT, "Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
> >Quoth "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net>:
> >
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 05:13:01
From: Leo95se
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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certs dont really hold much water in italy. they help if you have no
idea what youre looking for, but otherwise, its a means to charge more
for things, and for the government to get a piece of the action. gotta
love the italians and their paperwork :)
ill admit the one time i noticed a diff was a serialized bottle of
olive oil. man it was good, but also ~50euros!
the biggest difference, even if having a cert of theirs apply over here
is still the ingredients. fresh pizza, fresh coffee. in the end, we
dont have their water, their ingredients, etc, so itll be hard to get
close imo.
> See this article:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3753575.stm
> I think it would be a wonderful idea if something similar could be done for
> espresso and there could be a logo displayed if your establishment served
> "Vera Espresso Italiano" or somesuch - that way it would be less of a
> crapshoot when you ordered coffee.
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 11:09:16
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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The world has gotten awfully small - when I go into a Trader Joe's, the Thai
dumplings are really made in Thailand, the Swiss cheese really is from
Switzerland, the Irish oatmeal really is from Ireland, etc. If you really
want to, all the authentic Italian ingredients, down to the water, can be
imported. But freshness is an important value and most of the time I'd
rather have a fresh local ingredient (of good quality) than a stale
"authentic" one - this holds true for coffee, I'd say, and for pizza too.
And sometimes our ingredients are actually BETTER than the local ones -
American hard red wheat flour from the northern Plains is the envy of
Italian bakers who have to deal with soft Italian wheat grown in their mild
climate (a lot of Italian pasta is made with imported American wheat). I
don't buy the argument that you can only make a certain item in a certain
location or it's not "authentic". Maybe when you make it elsewhere it's not
quite the same (though it can be very close if you try) but it can be
equally good in its own way. As European agriculture has become less
competitive economically on a global market one of the things they have
retreated to is this kind of exaggerated emphasis on "origin" - using the
model pioneered by wine growers, every little thing from artichokes to
zebras is given an "appellation" or a "denomination" or a traditional
growing region (sometimes complete with numbered certificate, as you say) in
order to justify a premium price tag. Sometimes the hype really is justified
(I've yet to taste a Parmesan style cheese that even comes close to holding
a candle to authentic Parmigiano-Reggiano), but often its not (stale Illy in
a can). Americans have been traditionally more relaxed about this to the
point that drives European regulators nuts, as when we sell "New York
Champagne" and "Wisconsin Swiss Cheese" and often these products are
inferior, but sometimes (as with the best California wines) the pupil
exceeds the master.
"Leo95se" <leo.zick@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151410381.451187.290140@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> the biggest difference, even if having a cert of theirs apply over here
> is still the ingredients. fresh pizza, fresh coffee. in the end, we
> dont have their water, their ingredients, etc, so itll be hard to get
> close imo.
>
>
>> See this article:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3753575.stm
>
>> I think it would be a wonderful idea if something similar could be done
>> for
>> espresso and there could be a logo displayed if your establishment served
>> "Vera Espresso Italiano" or somesuch - that way it would be less of a
>> crapshoot when you ordered coffee.
>
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 04:51:30
From: wascher@gmail.com
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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The pizza rating is to verify that the pizza is being made with the
correct ingredients, some like cheese & olive oil coming from the
correct region of Italy, put together in the correct order &
proportions.
So it's not really a quality rating. I'd bet that if you gave this
Italian place the best beans in the world they'd still serve a horrible
espresso (to sort of get this on topic again).
Leo95se wrote:
> Donn Cave wrote:
> > There's a pizza place a couple blocks from us, largish and very popular
> > place that boasts an official `Denominazione di Origine Controllata'
> > certification for Neapolitan pizza, which according to them has some
> > legal status with the Italian government.
>
> my fist post here.. been reading for a while.. quite an amusing group
> you all are!
>
> first - most restaurant espresso sucks. its really that simple. even if
> it had any hope of having a decent crema on top, it would dissipate by
> the time it got to you since the bartender (yes, bartender, not
> barista, in most cases) makes it and it just waits until the server
> gets it to you. oh how i miss italy for that.
>
> also, DOC is used for wine ratings by the italian govt. doc is itlays
> 2nd highest rating, below docg, for govt approved wine that meets their
> wine standards. id argue to say the VDT (vino di tavola), the lowest
> 'rank' has equally as good wines since these tend to be produced by
> local vineyards that dont want to pay for the better rankings. anyway,
> this is a topic for another board :) still dont know how the wine
> authorities are rating pizza now though!
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 00:27:57
From: Phil Paintin
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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D. Ross wrote:
[snip]
>I have sent coffee back in Italian
> restaurants, something I rarely do in the US, the reason being that in the
> Italian restaurant it is likely that the waiter will understand what you are
> comjplaining about.
I suppose in any country the second cup *should* be better since at
least you know a conditioning shot will have gone through the machine
recently and stale grinds swept out of the grind path . . . as long as
they don't leave the doser full, that is . . .
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 20:47:58
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 19:32:44
From: Felix
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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D. Ross observes:
> The problem in this country is that neither the waiter nor the barista
> are likely to understand the difference between a good and bad shot.
The food order is communicated to the kitchen, and the food is brought
to the table, but espresso delivery is a horse of another color.
The bartender might pull good shots, but unless the delivery protocol
brings the runner (and dessert?) to the bar at the right time, a lot of
crema will die. To prevent the mess on Barry's saucer, a local "bistro"
usually decants its shots from a small, metal pitcher to the cup.
Podded coffee, sometimes the bartender forgets to change the pod ...
> Training helps, of course, but [...]
The bistro's customers don't seem to mind, so training isn't needed :-)
Felix
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 16:19:17
From: Heat + Beans
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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"Waiter, there's a fly on the wall"
"Don't worry, that's just Bernie, and he won't drink much coffee."
Martin
bernie digman wrote:
> Barry Jarrett wrote:
> > ...at an italian restaurant.
> >
> > $250 for four people, and this was the espresso i got served.
> >
> > http://www.coffeeprojects.com/images/esp006.jpg
> >
>
> You be on the bad dog list of restaurant owners in you area.
> I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the camera came out just to see the look on faces of
> the staff. "Look at the bumpkin-bet he's never seen a real expresso."
> Bernie
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Date: 27 Jun 2006 16:14:35
From: Heat + Beans
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Similie when you say that.
Martin :o)
Marshall wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:42:40 -0400, "St. John Smythe"
> <sinjen@n4vu.com> wrote:
>
> >Marshall wrote:
> >
> >> So, you're upset 'cause they spilled some?
> >
> >You didn't notice a more important deficiency?
>
> Not all jokes come with smilies.
>
> Marshall
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 05:29:03
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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D. Ross wrote:
This is the difference between having a year of a Fredonian in
> night school, spending a year in Fredonia in a language immersion program,
> or growing up in Fredonia.
Damn, David. I didn't know you spoke Fredonian. I did a Fulbright in
Fredonia and I've longed for someone to shoot the poop with in that
wonderful language. How about a new group: alt.coffee.fredonia?
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 03:26:18
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 13:40:51
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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<Omniryx@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1151497743.707732.238540@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> D. Ross wrote:
> This is the difference between having a year of a Fredonian in
> > night school, spending a year in Fredonia in a language immersion
program,
> > or growing up in Fredonia.
>
> Damn, David. I didn't know you spoke Fredonian. I did a Fulbright in
> Fredonia and I've longed for someone to shoot the poop with in that
> wonderful language. How about a new group: alt.coffee.fredonia?
>
I was thinking alt.coffee.moderated and you can volunteer to do the
moderating ;-)
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 04:56:48
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: after-dinner espresso...
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Marshall wrote:
>> Whenever a New York transplant starts blathering about missing the
> oily, gooey mess they call "real pizza," I send him over there to have
> his first "real pizza."
Dunno where you've been eating your pizzas when in New York, Marshall,
but you've clearly been going to the wrong places.
Will (Who cannot accustom himself to finding "crab and passion fruit"
as an option on an LA pizzeria menu.)
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