| |
Main
Date: 06 Aug 2006 06:06:25
From: webby
Subject: coffee question
|
Hello;
I'm a very frequent drinker of various coffees. Usually a robusta in the
morning then some much better coffee later in the day.
I'm thinking of buying a roaster, ordering green beans on line and
enhancing my little hobby.
Any opinions on roasters, sites that sell green beans etc.
Thanks
webby
|
|
| |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 10:50:04
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
Finding the keyboard operational
webby entered:
> Hello;
> I'm a very frequent drinker of various coffees. Usually a robusta in
> the morning then some much better coffee later in the day.
> I'm thinking of buying a roaster, ordering green beans on line and
> enhancing my little hobby.
> Any opinions on roasters, sites that sell green beans etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> webby
Chck for a local roaster that will seel you small amounts of green beans.
Save on shipping costs.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
|
| |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 02:01:46
From: HomeRoast@gmail.com
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
Hi Webby,
Beans matter the most - I have bought many places but
www.sweetmarias.com seems to have the widest array of gourmet beans. I
have never had a bad lot from there. They also can give you insight
into the various roast methods, with tip sheets etc. Several other
sites offer this too, such as www.burmancoffee.com or
www.coffeebeancorral.com, still I go to Sweet Maria's first.
I use several roast methods. To start you should just get a popcorn
popper and try your hand. Buy a variety of beans in a sampler or trial
pack - maybe $25 all told to start.
My favorite method is a 12" skillet over the side burner of a BBQ, but
this presumes a BBQ, and a side burner, and a skillet, and a flat steel
spatula. I have tried other methods, such as heat gun, wok,
whirley-pop and a drum roaster. My drum is much more precise, with
temp control and a good thermometer - but this costs a bundle to get
into. www.rkdrums.com can help you there.
Several "real" roasters are out there, but I have yet to hear that they
outperform the popcorn popper or the skillet...
... 2cents to get you started...
Regards,
Brett
webby wrote:
> Hello;
> I'm a very frequent drinker of various coffees. Usually a robusta in the
> morning then some much better coffee later in the day.
> I'm thinking of buying a roaster, ordering green beans on line and
> enhancing my little hobby.
> Any opinions on roasters, sites that sell green beans etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> webby
|
| | |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 08:43:36
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
"HomeRoast@gmail.com" <HomeRoast@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>Several "real" roasters are out there, but I have yet to hear that they
>outperform the popcorn popper or the skillet...
>
How do you define "outperform"? Speed? Cost? Taste?
The iRoast2 outperforms the popcorn popper, Hearthware Precision, and
Gourmet (in my testing) in virtually all ways except price. You could
say that a cigarette lighter outperforms a skillet as well depending
on your criteria. I roast in a Hottop almost exclusively, and everyone
I give coffee says it is the best coffee they have ever tasted, and so
by that evidence you could say that a Hottop out performs a commercial
roaster (it doesn't).
Randy "outperforms himself" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 13:07:03
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
In article <583cd2ls1rqng4ioa0bqmupv6ipah5p5hr@4ax.com >,
frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com says...
> "HomeRoast@gmail.com" <HomeRoast@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Several "real" roasters are out there, but I have yet to hear that they
> >outperform the popcorn popper or the skillet...
> >
>
> How do you define "outperform"? Speed? Cost? Taste?
> The iRoast2 outperforms the popcorn popper, Hearthware Precision, and
> Gourmet (in my testing) in virtually all ways except price. You could
> say that a cigarette lighter outperforms a skillet as well depending
> on your criteria. I roast in a Hottop almost exclusively, and everyone
> I give coffee says it is the best coffee they have ever tasted, and so
> by that evidence you could say that a Hottop out performs a commercial
> roaster (it doesn't).
It took quite a bit of trial and error, close monitoring and logging
of temperature curves, and taking meticulous notes, but my iRoast2 is
now consistently churning out the best coffee I've ever had. I
suspect that you could roast an incredible batch in a corn popper or
a skillet, but the key difference is consistency/repeatability. The
iRoast2 is very good at this. A commercial unit that costs 10-20
times the price would, no doubt, do an even better job. With
roasters (poppers and skillets included), as with most things, the
'betterness' of its objective qualities tends to be directly related
to price.
-Mike
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 19:38:54
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
<snip >
>It took quite a bit of trial and error, close monitoring and logging
>of temperature curves, and taking meticulous notes, but my iRoast2 is
>now consistently churning out the best coffee I've ever had.
Please don't take offense, but if your previous coffee was *$, the
best coffee you've ever had could still be somewhat suspect.
After several years home roasting with HWP and FR,
I tried two iRoars, being extremely meticulous measuring bean weight
to 1g, line voltage, humidity, ambient temperature, etc. and found
the iRoar not very consistent within a roast and not that repeatable
between roasts. MUCH LESS SO than either HWP or FR.
The iRoar is too loud, exhibits severe unit to unit variability and is
an ergonomic nightmare. It is extremely poor value.
The 2nd was a warranty replacement and eBay'd.
Thanks to RG, I too, use a HotTop and it is a far superior machine in
terms of consistency and repeatability. It's problem is that it has no
profiles, but that can be fixed in a couple of hours with a line cord,
a switch and a variac. Forget about the digital panel. The timer
counts down. The temperatures are off by as much as 70F from the bean
temperature and are completely useless above ~400F.
<snip >
> I
>suspect that you could roast an incredible batch in a corn popper or
>a skillet, but the key difference is consistency/repeatability. The
>iRoast2 is very good at this.
A bazillion other home roasters might dispute this. HG/DB, Poppery,
GC, SC, FR, Z&D roasters achieve equal or superior repeatability and
almost certainly better consistency within the roast.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 18:36:05
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
In article <m8fcd29r1e6slmelsmjuaikf9dn7hnko0s@4ax.com >,=20
someone@nowhere.com says...
> <snip>
> >It took quite a bit of trial and error, close monitoring and logging=20
> >of temperature curves, and taking meticulous notes, but my iRoast2 is=20
> >now consistently churning out the best coffee I've ever had.
>=20
> Please don't take offense, but if your previous coffee was *$, the
> best coffee you've ever had could still be somewhat suspect.
I haven't had a *$ in years. Previous to the iRoast2, I used a Caffe=20
Rosto. Once I learned how to tweak that by riding the variac while=20
watching the temp throughout the roast, it did ok. But it was too=20
labor intensive, IMO. I might as well have been using a Poppery II=20
(not to disparage the Poppery, but it needs to be watched, too). I=20
still keep the CR as a backup. Prior to the Rosto, I used an HWP. I=20
wasn't exactly thrilled with the results, but it was still a far cry=20
better than the Melitta AromaRoast I started out with. And I was=20
drinking coffee that was better than anything prepared by any of the=20
coffee shops around here.
> After several years home roasting with HWP and FR,
> I tried two iRoars, being extremely meticulous measuring bean weight
> to =B11g, line voltage, humidity, ambient temperature, etc. and found
> the iRoar not very consistent within a roast and not that repeatable
> between roasts. MUCH LESS SO than either HWP or FR.
>=20
> The iRoar is too loud, exhibits severe unit to unit variability and is
> an ergonomic nightmare. It is extremely poor value.
> The 2nd was a warranty replacement and eBay'd.
As with the Rosto, I had to learn how MY iRoast worked. You're right=20
- unit to unit variability leaves something to be desired. The only=20
downside to that, though, is that we can't easily share profiles. =20
Big deal! I'd rather roast coffee than swap recipes (to each, his=20
own, I guess). In my experience, the line voltage only affects how=20
quickly it achieves the programmed temperature. Once there, it=20
bounces rhythmically back and forth in a 2-4 degree range, regardless=20
of line voltage (assuming normal variations) - stable enough, IMO. =20
Ambient temp has much the same effect. I can compensate for low=20
ambient temp quite effectively with the variac (see line voltage=20
comment, above). I haven't noticed the effect of humidity. Once I=20
documented the behavior of MY unit, I was able to tweak the profiles=20
as I wanted them. I've gotten it to the point where I can=20
practically walk away from it and, when I return, the roast is=20
virtually a perfect clone of the previous batch using the same beans,=20
although I still babysit it at least through the final 2 minutes,=20
just in case something goes awry. The internal temperature regulator=20
works extremely well, as long as you allow that the numbers that you=20
program and the numbers that are displayed are only indices into the=20
temperature tables contained in my notebook. If you read these=20
numbers as temperatures, you're pretty much guaranteed to be=20
disappointed. Unfortunately, this is probably why the iRoast has=20
garnered so many bad comments from end users.
> Thanks to RG, I too, use a HotTop and it is a far superior machine in
> terms of consistency and repeatability. It's problem is that it has no
> profiles, but that can be fixed in a couple of hours with a line cord,
> a switch and a variac. Forget about the digital panel. The timer
> counts down. The temperatures are off by as much as 70=B0F from the bean
> temperature and are completely useless above ~400=B0F.
Ironically, it was RG's experiments with the iRoast that pointed me=20
in the direction of the success that I've had.
> <snip>
> > I=20
> >suspect that you could roast an incredible batch in a corn popper or=20
> >a skillet, but the key difference is consistency/repeatability. The=20
> >iRoast2 is very good at this.
>=20
> A bazillion other home roasters might dispute this. HG/DB, Poppery,
> GC, SC, FR, Z&D roasters achieve equal or superior repeatability and
> almost certainly better consistency within the roast.
Since I don't think Hearthware has sold a bazillion units, I suspect=20
that most of these comments were made up to further somebody's=20
agenda. Sorry - I don't do agendas. MY experisnce is MY reality for=20
MY unit. WRT consistency, as I said, experience tells me that, as=20
long as I look at the numbers as indicators rather than as=20
temperatures, my iRoast leaves little to be desired. My only=20
concern, at this point, is that if (when?) it fails and I replace it=20
with another, I'll have to start all over again. My notes will no=20
longer apply.
WRT taking offense, you said, in not so many words, that I don't know=20
what I'm talking about. How could I possibly take offense with a=20
comment like that? ;-)
--=20
-Mike
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 06:44:32
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
Yo Mike,
Cool down!
If you swap HWP for iRoar, my experience would mirror yours. [I modded
MY HWP for 8 'profiles' that were consistent from day to day, bean to
bean, year to year] Wish it were so with the iRoars. Part of my
dissatisfaction with the iRoar stems in no small part from the 12 to 1
ratio of binned beans over the HWP, FR and HotTop _ COMBINED _.
Using a probe in the beans on the iRoar, programming the 'numbers'
resulted in 10F from day to day. Same beans. Ok, not same beans,
they were already ruined. Same BATCH of beans. Same weight. Same time
of day. Same line votage.
Depending on the 'mood' of the machine, the chaff would either plug
the collector or not and the roast would take off or stall.
Now that we know your expertise, I give YOUR iRoar experience
credence. However, it is unlikely I shall try a third!
BTW, I never questioned your skill, just your previous coffee.
I believe I listed the problems _ I _ had with the iRoar. I think this
is only fair to others that may purchase the machine that they know it
ain't nirvana in a box. Given all that it has taken YOU to get YOUR
machine to the point that it meets your needs, I think you'll agree
that is the reality. Of course, one might argue one only gets out what
one is willing to put in. In MY case, there was no return from the
iRoar.
Relax. It's only coffee! <vbg >.
Cheers,
Ian
On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:36:05 -0500, Mike Hartigan
<mike@hartigan.dot.com > wrote:
>In article <m8fcd29r1e6slmelsmjuaikf9dn7hnko0s@4ax.com>,
>someone@nowhere.com says...
>> <snip>
>> >It took quite a bit of trial and error, close monitoring and logging
>> >of temperature curves, and taking meticulous notes, but my iRoast2 is
>> >now consistently churning out the best coffee I've ever had.
>>
>> Please don't take offense, but if your previous coffee was *$, the
>> best coffee you've ever had could still be somewhat suspect.
>
>I haven't had a *$ in years. Previous to the iRoast2, I used a Caffe
>Rosto. Once I learned how to tweak that by riding the variac while
>watching the temp throughout the roast, it did ok. But it was too
>labor intensive, IMO. I might as well have been using a Poppery II
>(not to disparage the Poppery, but it needs to be watched, too). I
>still keep the CR as a backup. Prior to the Rosto, I used an HWP. I
>wasn't exactly thrilled with the results, but it was still a far cry
>better than the Melitta AromaRoast I started out with. And I was
>drinking coffee that was better than anything prepared by any of the
>coffee shops around here.
>
>> After several years home roasting with HWP and FR,
>> I tried two iRoars, being extremely meticulous measuring bean weight
>> to 1g, line voltage, humidity, ambient temperature, etc. and found
>> the iRoar not very consistent within a roast and not that repeatable
>> between roasts. MUCH LESS SO than either HWP or FR.
>>
>> The iRoar is too loud, exhibits severe unit to unit variability and is
>> an ergonomic nightmare. It is extremely poor value.
>> The 2nd was a warranty replacement and eBay'd.
>
>As with the Rosto, I had to learn how MY iRoast worked. You're right
>- unit to unit variability leaves something to be desired. The only
>downside to that, though, is that we can't easily share profiles.
>Big deal! I'd rather roast coffee than swap recipes (to each, his
>own, I guess). In my experience, the line voltage only affects how
>quickly it achieves the programmed temperature. Once there, it
>bounces rhythmically back and forth in a 2-4 degree range, regardless
>of line voltage (assuming normal variations) - stable enough, IMO.
>Ambient temp has much the same effect. I can compensate for low
>ambient temp quite effectively with the variac (see line voltage
>comment, above). I haven't noticed the effect of humidity. Once I
>documented the behavior of MY unit, I was able to tweak the profiles
>as I wanted them. I've gotten it to the point where I can
>practically walk away from it and, when I return, the roast is
>virtually a perfect clone of the previous batch using the same beans,
>although I still babysit it at least through the final 2 minutes,
>just in case something goes awry. The internal temperature regulator
>works extremely well, as long as you allow that the numbers that you
>program and the numbers that are displayed are only indices into the
>temperature tables contained in my notebook. If you read these
>numbers as temperatures, you're pretty much guaranteed to be
>disappointed. Unfortunately, this is probably why the iRoast has
>garnered so many bad comments from end users.
>
>> Thanks to RG, I too, use a HotTop and it is a far superior machine in
>> terms of consistency and repeatability. It's problem is that it has no
>> profiles, but that can be fixed in a couple of hours with a line cord,
>> a switch and a variac. Forget about the digital panel. The timer
>> counts down. The temperatures are off by as much as 70F from the bean
>> temperature and are completely useless above ~400F.
>
>Ironically, it was RG's experiments with the iRoast that pointed me
>in the direction of the success that I've had.
>
>> <snip>
>> > I
>> >suspect that you could roast an incredible batch in a corn popper or
>> >a skillet, but the key difference is consistency/repeatability. The
>> >iRoast2 is very good at this.
>>
>> A bazillion other home roasters might dispute this. HG/DB, Poppery,
>> GC, SC, FR, Z&D roasters achieve equal or superior repeatability and
>> almost certainly better consistency within the roast.
>
>Since I don't think Hearthware has sold a bazillion units, I suspect
>that most of these comments were made up to further somebody's
>agenda. Sorry - I don't do agendas. MY experisnce is MY reality for
>MY unit. WRT consistency, as I said, experience tells me that, as
>long as I look at the numbers as indicators rather than as
>temperatures, my iRoast leaves little to be desired. My only
>concern, at this point, is that if (when?) it fails and I replace it
>with another, I'll have to start all over again. My notes will no
>longer apply.
>
>WRT taking offense, you said, in not so many words, that I don't know
>what I'm talking about. How could I possibly take offense with a
>comment like that? ;-)
|
| | | | | |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 15:21:31
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
In article <m8fcd29r1e6slmelsmjuaikf9dn7hnko0s@4ax.com >,
"I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> >It took quite a bit of trial and error, close monitoring and logging
> >of temperature curves, and taking meticulous notes, but my iRoast2 is
> >now consistently churning out the best coffee I've ever had.
>
> Please don't take offense, but if your previous coffee was *$, the
> best coffee you've ever had could still be somewhat suspect.
>
> After several years home roasting with HWP and FR,
> I tried two iRoars, being extremely meticulous measuring bean weight
> to 1g, line voltage, humidity, ambient temperature, etc. and found
> the iRoar not very consistent within a roast and not that repeatable
> between roasts. MUCH LESS SO than either HWP or FR.
>
> The iRoar is too loud, exhibits severe unit to unit variability and is
> an ergonomic nightmare. It is extremely poor value.
> The 2nd was a warranty replacement and eBay'd.
>
> Thanks to RG, I too, use a HotTop and it is a far superior machine in
> terms of consistency and repeatability. It's problem is that it has no
> profiles, but that can be fixed in a couple of hours with a line cord,
> a switch and a variac. Forget about the digital panel. The timer
> counts down. The temperatures are off by as much as 70F from the bean
> temperature and are completely useless above ~400F.
>
> <snip>
> > I
> >suspect that you could roast an incredible batch in a corn popper or
> >a skillet, but the key difference is consistency/repeatability. The
> >iRoast2 is very good at this.
>
> A bazillion other home roasters might dispute this. HG/DB, Poppery,
> GC, SC, FR, Z&D roasters achieve equal or superior repeatability and
> almost certainly better consistency within the roast.
The Z&D is very easy to get consistency from if you always use the same
weight of coffee in the batch. It is nearly as 'set and forget' as it
gets. I think that comes from the slow roasting method it uses.
At light roasts, the FR is harder to get consistency from as everything
is so fast.
All my very subjective opinion, of course.
|
| |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 15:34:17
From: Tom
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
My Hearthware Precision does a good enough job for my taste and probably
most others, whether they want to admit it or not. Probably the biggest
difference between it and a drum roaster is volume and noise. With the
Hearthware you get smaller batches that are good for maybe 10-12 cups and it
IS noisy, but the price is right for a newcomer.
Sweetmarias and ccmcoffee are two good suppliers.
Tom
"webby" <webslave4u@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:BFfBg.187$Sn3.152@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Hello;
> I'm a very frequent drinker of various coffees. Usually a robusta in the
> morning then some much better coffee later in the day.
> I'm thinking of buying a roaster, ordering green beans on line and
> enhancing my little hobby.
> Any opinions on roasters, sites that sell green beans etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> webby
>
|
| |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 11:51:16
From: rasqual
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
The Other Funk wrote:
> Chck for a local roaster that will seel you small amounts of green beans.
> Save on shipping costs.
That's really good advice.
As for whether anything outperforms a popper, I think "outperformance"
comes more with experience than with equipment. There are advantages
and disadvantages to each method we all use, but if we were honest I
think a big share of arguments about methods would turn into
conversations that expose our gained wisdoms about how to get the most
out of those methods.
For my part, a modded and tweaked popper is pretty good -- but in the
hands of a novice it'd probable spell disaster for whatever batch size
the yahoo would haplessly charge it with.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Aug 2006 21:33:54
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
Finding the keyboard operational
rasqual entered:
> For my part, a modded and tweaked popper is pretty good -- but in the
> hands of a novice it'd probable spell disaster for whatever batch size
> the yahoo would haplessly charge it with.
I can make a 20Kg mess and a 5Kg ambroisa in the same day. Or the other way
around. The hardest thing is to stay consistant so that this weeks tastes
the same as last weeks roast. I think color and smell are the most important
indicators of how a roast is going.
I know I am going against the grain here but I really do believe that sight,
smell and sound are more important then the exact temp. profile. After all
we are dealing with plant material here. One sack can be different then the
next and if serving the same coffee over time is your goal, you had better
be able to adapt.
Having said that no matter what you are roasting, how you are roasting it
and what you are roasting in, I wish you the best.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 08:22:25
From: tjnamtiw
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
You're right on! The equipment makes no difference. You have to trust your
ears for the 'cracks' and your eyes for the appearance. With that, you get
consistency to satisfy your tastes, and you can experiment with control.
> I know I am going against the grain here but I really do believe that
> sight, smell and sound are more important then the exact temp. profile.
> After all we are dealing with plant material here. One sack can be
> different then the next and if serving the same coffee over time is your
> goal, you had better be able to adapt.
> Having said that no matter what you are roasting, how you are roasting it
> and what you are roasting in, I wish you the best.
> Bob
>
|
| |
Date: 11 Aug 2006 07:06:49
From:
Subject: Re: coffee question
|
webby wrote:
> Hello;
> I'm a very frequent drinker of various coffees. Usually a robusta in the
> morning then some much better coffee later in the day.
> I'm thinking of buying a roaster, ordering green beans on line and
> enhancing my little hobby.
> Any opinions on roasters, sites that sell green beans etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> webby
I would recommend www.ccmcoffee.com for green beans.
|
|
