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Main
Date: 28 Aug 2006 13:32:58
From: Bradley
Subject: noob w/ a Zach & Dani's: observations, questions
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I saw the announcement of the Zach & Dani pricing here and decided it
was a reasonable price to plunge (dip) into roasting.
The web page offers a "starter kit" (with or w/o grinders), and I
ordered the basic starter kit, ie. no grinder, which was to inlcude "3
bags of beans." However, only the roaster w/ video arrived -- no
promised beans or cannister. And when I called back, the salesgirl
appeared not to know about any offers to include beans. Asking for
someone with more experience, an initially defensive ("you didn't
order the starter kit") and then more helpful ("ok, which varieties of
beans would you like?" Josh came on the phone and eventually agreed to
ship the beans out 2 Day because of the delay. Thank you, Josh.
Timing the first roast, I found consistent info, from Thom's review,
Z&D's booklet, and postings here, to suggest that a 20 minute setting
(15 roast + 5 cooling) produces too light a roast.
OK, so very first roast attempt: 4 oz of Z&D Kenya AA with the timer
set to 24 minutes (19 roast + 5 cooling). I'm thinking that I am
hearing cracks (first time roasting ever) at 9-10 minutes into the
roast, which is sooner, I believe, than Thom's experience. At the end
of the cooling cycle I am pouring very dark beans with an oil sheen,
at least a Viennese level roast, into the collander.
Next two roasts. 20 minute setting (15+5) is producing beans a bit
darker than the drip roasts Thom usually ships on Tuesdays. At least
in color, I'm thinking Full City, anyway. (I have no experience
cupping, and am comparing appearance with purchased roasts.)
On the second 15+5 roast, I stopped a roast of Z&D Yirgacheffe at the
beginning of the cooling cycle (15 min roast time) for the collander
fan strategy, and I hear the beans distinctly cracking. Based on the
fairly dark color of these beans, and the previous 19 min roast time
producing Viennese plus color / flavor, I'm assuming that the roaster
must have just been getting to the second crack at 15 minute roast
time.
I'll be checking with Z&D to inquire about design changes, but I am
wondering if anyone else (noob enough or gadgety enough to be) using a
Z&D has had similar experience of an apparently hotter roaster
producing noticebly shorter roast times than the Z&d norm?
Also, I have been experiencing some bitter aftertaste from both the
Z&D Kenya and Yirgacheffe, especially when brewing pour over Chemex
about 14 hours after roasting. Wondering if this is a matter of a)
technique, are fresh beans more sensitive to accurate water temp /
extraction; b) Z&D's quality of beans; c) resting the beans longer; d)
qualities related to the technology of this machine.
Thoughts? Comments?
Thanks,
Brad
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 10:48:34
From: wakajawaka
Subject: Re: noob w/ a Zach & Dani's: observations, questions
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I had the same experience in the beginning. After reading the reviews about
how the Z&D didn't work for dark roasts, I set the time too high and made
charcoal with a few batches. My line voltage to the machine is slightly
over 121 volts, so I'm assuming that this is why dark roasts are not a
problem for me - even if I don't want them.
Since I found a Poppery II at a thrift store, I have been pretty much using
that exclusively. I recently discovered that the best tasting coffee that I
have made came when I ended the roast within 30-60 seconds of the end of
first crack then went straight to the funnel/collander/shopvac for cooling.
They're not pretty, but each variety tastes great and shows it's distinctive
characteristics.
I'm going to re-try the Z&D one day and shoot for the lighter roast followed
by a rapid cooling. I've found that (with my set-ups anyway) a roast that
hits second crack tastes flat. I buy a large variety of beans from SM and
roast something different every time. They all taste pretty much the same
if I hit second crack. Maybe this is why all the major specialty chains
roast dark - they can buy any old beans - roast dark - and get consistent
"taste(?)".
I do like the Z&D, the popper is just faster. I just wish that I could hear
the cracks better. I also noticed that my second batch took a couple
minutes less to get the same roast level as the first - even with a 5 minute
preheat.
Just my observations and my personal tastes.
Welcome to the world of home roasting. If you ever make the mistake of
taking some to work or sharing with friends and family, you'll find that
you'll have a bunch of new friends and you'll be roasting an awful lot more
coffee than you thought you would.
Don
"Bradley" <nospam@127.0.0.1 > wrote in message
news:osp5f2pk6l3efrpi0l8kllb40ahp8206v4@4ax.com...
>I saw the announcement of the Zach & Dani pricing here and decided it
> was a reasonable price to plunge (dip) into roasting.
>
> The web page offers a "starter kit" (with or w/o grinders), and I
> ordered the basic starter kit, ie. no grinder, which was to inlcude "3
> bags of beans." However, only the roaster w/ video arrived -- no
> promised beans or cannister. And when I called back, the salesgirl
> appeared not to know about any offers to include beans. Asking for
> someone with more experience, an initially defensive ("you didn't
> order the starter kit") and then more helpful ("ok, which varieties of
> beans would you like?" Josh came on the phone and eventually agreed to
> ship the beans out 2 Day because of the delay. Thank you, Josh.
>
> Timing the first roast, I found consistent info, from Thom's review,
> Z&D's booklet, and postings here, to suggest that a 20 minute setting
> (15 roast + 5 cooling) produces too light a roast.
>
> OK, so very first roast attempt: 4 oz of Z&D Kenya AA with the timer
> set to 24 minutes (19 roast + 5 cooling). I'm thinking that I am
> hearing cracks (first time roasting ever) at 9-10 minutes into the
> roast, which is sooner, I believe, than Thom's experience. At the end
> of the cooling cycle I am pouring very dark beans with an oil sheen,
> at least a Viennese level roast, into the collander.
>
> Next two roasts. 20 minute setting (15+5) is producing beans a bit
> darker than the drip roasts Thom usually ships on Tuesdays. At least
> in color, I'm thinking Full City, anyway. (I have no experience
> cupping, and am comparing appearance with purchased roasts.)
>
> On the second 15+5 roast, I stopped a roast of Z&D Yirgacheffe at the
> beginning of the cooling cycle (15 min roast time) for the collander
> fan strategy, and I hear the beans distinctly cracking. Based on the
> fairly dark color of these beans, and the previous 19 min roast time
> producing Viennese plus color / flavor, I'm assuming that the roaster
> must have just been getting to the second crack at 15 minute roast
> time.
>
> I'll be checking with Z&D to inquire about design changes, but I am
> wondering if anyone else (noob enough or gadgety enough to be) using a
> Z&D has had similar experience of an apparently hotter roaster
> producing noticebly shorter roast times than the Z&d norm?
>
> Also, I have been experiencing some bitter aftertaste from both the
> Z&D Kenya and Yirgacheffe, especially when brewing pour over Chemex
> about 14 hours after roasting. Wondering if this is a matter of a)
> technique, are fresh beans more sensitive to accurate water temp /
> extraction; b) Z&D's quality of beans; c) resting the beans longer; d)
> qualities related to the technology of this machine.
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 09:06:28
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: noob w/ a Zach & Dani's: observations, questions
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In article <osp5f2pk6l3efrpi0l8kllb40ahp8206v4@4ax.com >,
Bradley <nospam@127.0.0.1 > wrote:
> I saw the announcement of the Zach & Dani pricing here and decided it
> was a reasonable price to plunge (dip) into roasting.
>
> The web page offers a "starter kit" (with or w/o grinders), and I
> ordered the basic starter kit, ie. no grinder, which was to inlcude "3
> bags of beans." However, only the roaster w/ video arrived -- no
> promised beans or cannister. And when I called back, the salesgirl
> appeared not to know about any offers to include beans. Asking for
> someone with more experience, an initially defensive ("you didn't
> order the starter kit") and then more helpful ("ok, which varieties of
> beans would you like?" Josh came on the phone and eventually agreed to
> ship the beans out 2 Day because of the delay. Thank you, Josh.
>
> Timing the first roast, I found consistent info, from Thom's review,
> Z&D's booklet, and postings here, to suggest that a 20 minute setting
> (15 roast + 5 cooling) produces too light a roast.
>
> OK, so very first roast attempt: 4 oz of Z&D Kenya AA with the timer
> set to 24 minutes (19 roast + 5 cooling). I'm thinking that I am
> hearing cracks (first time roasting ever) at 9-10 minutes into the
> roast, which is sooner, I believe, than Thom's experience. At the end
> of the cooling cycle I am pouring very dark beans with an oil sheen,
> at least a Viennese level roast, into the collander.
>
> Next two roasts. 20 minute setting (15+5) is producing beans a bit
> darker than the drip roasts Thom usually ships on Tuesdays. At least
> in color, I'm thinking Full City, anyway. (I have no experience
> cupping, and am comparing appearance with purchased roasts.)
>
> On the second 15+5 roast, I stopped a roast of Z&D Yirgacheffe at the
> beginning of the cooling cycle (15 min roast time) for the collander
> fan strategy, and I hear the beans distinctly cracking. Based on the
> fairly dark color of these beans, and the previous 19 min roast time
> producing Viennese plus color / flavor, I'm assuming that the roaster
> must have just been getting to the second crack at 15 minute roast
> time.
>
> I'll be checking with Z&D to inquire about design changes, but I am
> wondering if anyone else (noob enough or gadgety enough to be) using a
> Z&D has had similar experience of an apparently hotter roaster
> producing noticebly shorter roast times than the Z&d norm?
>
> Also, I have been experiencing some bitter aftertaste from both the
> Z&D Kenya and Yirgacheffe, especially when brewing pour over Chemex
> about 14 hours after roasting. Wondering if this is a matter of a)
> technique, are fresh beans more sensitive to accurate water temp /
> extraction; b) Z&D's quality of beans; c) resting the beans longer; d)
> qualities related to the technology of this machine.
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
HI Brad, welcome to the group.
There has been at least one poster on coffeegeeks forums that says his
Z&D is roasting quicker than most report. Here are some things that
certainly can affect the roast:
1. Line voltage - if it is lower or higher does affect roast times.
This seems to be the case with almost all the low end roasters like the
Z&D, FreshRoast and iRoast
2. Pre-warming or already warm from previous roast. Times need to be
adjusted to account for this. I now pre-warm mine for 5 minutes and
that reduces the overall time of roasting, plus changes how the roast
tastes because the roasting profile is shortened.
3. Quality of beans - I bought my Z&D at a bargain price and didn't get
the Z&D beans, so I don't know what the quality of those are. But with
my Sweetmaria's beans, I'm getting good roasts.
4. Batch size - with the Z&D, the lighter (up to Full City +) roasts
are supposed to be done with a 5 oz batch, while the darker are done at
4 oz. From your posting, it seems you are using 4 oz. This will
shorten the time for those lighter roasts.
While your times may seem to be an issue for you, they are only general
guidelines to get you started. Watch the roast progress, listen for the
cracks and smell the air coming out for indicators of how the roast is
progressing. Also, log your results as to time, did you pre-warm and
how long, batch size and which bean. After a bit of experience, you
will have a record that will allow nearly a 'set and forget' setting for
the bean and roast level you want to accomplish. That is one of the
beauties of the Z&D.
The first roasts I did with my Z&D were nearly spot on with time given
from Sweetmarias in their tipsheet from a cold start. My line voltage
is dead-on 120vac and my batch sizes were 5 oz for up to FC+ and 4 oz
for darker roasts than that.
The last thing that affects the taste is that the coffee you are
roasting is probably fresher than any you have had before. That does
affect the taste.
For instance, I roasted some Sweetmarias green stripe harar and let it
rest 24 hours. None of the blueberry note was present, but after 24
more hours, there it was, but only for a couple days more.
Lastly, keep in mind that the tipsheets, guidelines and such are just
places to start. They are designed to give you a starting place to
adjust from to account for the variables.
Good luck with your Z&D. After you get things locked in, I think you'll
love it.
Lloyd
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 23:24:18
From: Bradley
Subject: Re: noob w/ a Zach & Dani's: observations, questions
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Thank you, guys. It's helpful to hear the experiences with the Z&D.
And I've run through many of the CG reviews.
I'm thinking for the relatively decent cost/benefit mix and the
minimal time investment, the Zach & Dani's may be an OK entree into
roasting.
But, oh, the glimpse of the limitless possibilities for obsession...
Brad
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 18:22:55
From: beeman
Subject: Re: noob w/ a Zach & Dani's: observations, questions
|
That was my experience. My first attempt charcoaled some Ethiopian. I am
getting pretty good results with a lot less time than recommended.
"Bradley" <nospam@127.0.0.1 > wrote in message
news:osp5f2pk6l3efrpi0l8kllb40ahp8206v4@4ax.com...
>I saw the announcement of the Zach & Dani pricing here and decided it
> was a reasonable price to plunge (dip) into roasting.
>
> The web page offers a "starter kit" (with or w/o grinders), and I
> ordered the basic starter kit, ie. no grinder, which was to inlcude "3
> bags of beans." However, only the roaster w/ video arrived -- no
> promised beans or cannister. And when I called back, the salesgirl
> appeared not to know about any offers to include beans. Asking for
> someone with more experience, an initially defensive ("you didn't
> order the starter kit") and then more helpful ("ok, which varieties of
> beans would you like?" Josh came on the phone and eventually agreed to
> ship the beans out 2 Day because of the delay. Thank you, Josh.
>
> Timing the first roast, I found consistent info, from Thom's review,
> Z&D's booklet, and postings here, to suggest that a 20 minute setting
> (15 roast + 5 cooling) produces too light a roast.
>
> OK, so very first roast attempt: 4 oz of Z&D Kenya AA with the timer
> set to 24 minutes (19 roast + 5 cooling). I'm thinking that I am
> hearing cracks (first time roasting ever) at 9-10 minutes into the
> roast, which is sooner, I believe, than Thom's experience. At the end
> of the cooling cycle I am pouring very dark beans with an oil sheen,
> at least a Viennese level roast, into the collander.
>
> Next two roasts. 20 minute setting (15+5) is producing beans a bit
> darker than the drip roasts Thom usually ships on Tuesdays. At least
> in color, I'm thinking Full City, anyway. (I have no experience
> cupping, and am comparing appearance with purchased roasts.)
>
> On the second 15+5 roast, I stopped a roast of Z&D Yirgacheffe at the
> beginning of the cooling cycle (15 min roast time) for the collander
> fan strategy, and I hear the beans distinctly cracking. Based on the
> fairly dark color of these beans, and the previous 19 min roast time
> producing Viennese plus color / flavor, I'm assuming that the roaster
> must have just been getting to the second crack at 15 minute roast
> time.
>
> I'll be checking with Z&D to inquire about design changes, but I am
> wondering if anyone else (noob enough or gadgety enough to be) using a
> Z&D has had similar experience of an apparently hotter roaster
> producing noticebly shorter roast times than the Z&d norm?
>
> Also, I have been experiencing some bitter aftertaste from both the
> Z&D Kenya and Yirgacheffe, especially when brewing pour over Chemex
> about 14 hours after roasting. Wondering if this is a matter of a)
> technique, are fresh beans more sensitive to accurate water temp /
> extraction; b) Z&D's quality of beans; c) resting the beans longer; d)
> qualities related to the technology of this machine.
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
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Date: 30 Aug 2006 10:50:58
From:
Subject: Re: noob w/ a Zach & Dani's: observations, questions
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I have found the roasts vary only slightly based on the beans. I like
the beans pretty well that came with the unit and reordered through Z&D
I got Ethiopian which I roast 4.4 oz for 20 min including the cool
down, and Bourbon for 21 and Kenya for 21.
Adding 1 minute to each time gives a fuill city ++ what I would call
espresso, but others say espresso is a drink not a roast, so I say ++.
I had the hearthware with the modifiable roast profile and found it
unsatisfactory at producing consistent results due to its sensitivity
to chaff. I am very pleased with the Z&D roaster and the coffeee is
pretty good for the price. My next order will be from Sweet Marias
where I used to buy my coffee and we''ll see if the more expensive
price is worth it with this roaster.
I was able to get a real darn good cup about every 20-30 roasts with
Sweet Marias and the Hearthware, but I was unable to get consistent
results and ruined just as many roast by over roasting. So there
Bradley wrote:
> Thank you, guys. It's helpful to hear the experiences with the Z&D.
> And I've run through many of the CG reviews.
>
> I'm thinking for the relatively decent cost/benefit mix and the
> minimal time investment, the Zach & Dani's may be an OK entree into
> roasting.
>
> But, oh, the glimpse of the limitless possibilities for obsession...
>
> Brad
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