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Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:35:54
From: -keevill-
Subject: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking advice
regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really nice coffee.
Any advice would be appreciated.
-keevill-
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 06:33:50
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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You DO have a knack for asking the right questions, don't you, Robert?
:)
Robert Harmon wrote:
> "-keevill-" <keevillus@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:456e6eed$0$699$88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
>
> > I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking
> > advice regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really
> > nice coffee. Any advice would be appreciated.
> > -keevill-
> >
> >
> >
>
> What machines have you used in the coffee shops where you learned the
> craft?
>
> Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
> --
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
> Remove "Z" to reply via email.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:10:12
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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"-keevill-" <keevillus@yahoo.com > wrote in
news:456e6eed$0$699$88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
> I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking
> advice regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really
> nice coffee. Any advice would be appreciated.
> -keevill-
>
>
>
What machines have you used in the coffee shops where you learned the
craft?
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:16:05
From: -keevill-
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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>
> What machines have you used in the coffee shops where you learned the
> craft?
>
> Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
I haven't learned the art yet. I am considering attending a 3 day course run
by Boncafe.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 02:13:46
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Finding the keyboard operational
-keevill- entered:
> I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking
> advice regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really
> nice coffee. Any advice would be appreciated.
> -keevill-
In addition to making coffee, consider the cycle time, reliability,
serviceablilty and ease of use. Will you have 220V or are you going to have
to allow more time to heat the water? Single pot or double?
One bit of unsolicited advice - Running a coffee shop doesn't have a lot to
do with making coffee.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 23:25:23
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 02:13:46 GMT, "The Other Funk"
<bobbie@moondoggie.com > wrote:
>One bit of unsolicited advice - Running a coffee shop doesn't have a lot to
>do with making coffee.
as much as i recognize the accuracy of that statement, reading it
makes me cringe, and it helps explain the dearth of quality coffee in
coffee shops across the country.
--barry "helps to know your product, too"
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 00:41:22
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Finding the keyboard operational
Barry Jarrett entered:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 02:13:46 GMT, "The Other Funk"
> <bobbie@moondoggie.com> wrote:
>
>> One bit of unsolicited advice - Running a coffee shop doesn't have a
>> lot to do with making coffee.
>
>
> as much as i recognize the accuracy of that statement, reading it
> makes me cringe, and it helps explain the dearth of quality coffee in
> coffee shops across the country.
>
> --barry "helps to know your product, too"
Barry,
My rather terse comment was not meant to belittle the need for quality
coffee. I put out the best product that is in my power to produce. The
begining of this thread was asking for advice on the best brewer to buy.
The point I was trying to make, and failed miserably at, was there is a lot
more then the "best brewer" to buy.
While beans, water and brewer are vital to making a good cup, I feared that
the OP was getting tunnel vision. Maybe I read to much into it. The shock
of opening a coffee shop is still fresh. The details of running any business
will overwhelm anyone not prepared for it and if you do not run your
business it won't matter how good your coffee is because you won't have a
business.
My comment should have been "While a good brewer will help you make a good
cup of coffee - making coffee is not running your business."
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 19:46:22
From: bernie
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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The Other Funk wrote:
> Finding the keyboard operational
> Barry Jarrett entered:
>
>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 02:13:46 GMT, "The Other Funk"
>> <bobbie@moondoggie.com> wrote:
>>
>>> One bit of unsolicited advice - Running a coffee shop doesn't have a
>>> lot to do with making coffee.
>>
>>
>>
>> as much as i recognize the accuracy of that statement, reading it
>> makes me cringe, and it helps explain the dearth of quality coffee in
>> coffee shops across the country.
>>
>> --barry "helps to know your product, too"
>
>
> Barry,
> My rather terse comment was not meant to belittle the need for quality
> coffee. I put out the best product that is in my power to produce. The
> begining of this thread was asking for advice on the best brewer to buy.
> The point I was trying to make, and failed miserably at, was there is a
> lot more then the "best brewer" to buy.
> While beans, water and brewer are vital to making a good cup, I feared
> that the OP was getting tunnel vision. Maybe I read to much into it.
> The shock of opening a coffee shop is still fresh. The details of
> running any business will overwhelm anyone not prepared for it and if
> you do not run your business it won't matter how good your coffee is
> because you won't have a business.
> My comment should have been "While a good brewer will help you make a
> good cup of coffee - making coffee is not running your business."
> Bob
> --
> --
> Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
> www.moondoggiecoffee.com
>
I didn't read your post as terse at all, Bob. Just a matter-of-fact
observation about business. There are many days I wish my business
acumen was as good as my roasting and espresso making. My shop has a
great atmosphere and attracts a lot of traffic. I can name half a dozen
spots in town that have a crappy atmosphere and mediocre product but do
twice the business I do because the owners have that eye for the bottom
line that I do not have. I don't do badly, but I'm confident enough in
my place in the universe to easily state that a good business person in
my spot would be making three times what I make. Same with my banjo. A
good banjo player can make my banjo sing like you wouldn't believe. The
only ones I make sing are the dogs.
Bernie (debits on the right? or was that credits?) D.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:04:22
From: North Sullivan
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:35:54 +0700, "-keevill-" <keevillus@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking advice
>regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really nice coffee.
>Any advice would be appreciated.
I agree that you should purchase a coffee machine which can produce
really nice coffee.
Where have you had really good coffee? What types of machines do they
have? What coffee do they use?
North Sullivan
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 18:40:31
From: daveb
Subject: shopping advice please
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I beg to differ, Dan.
Coffee machinery does not change that much, and making coffee is not
manufacturing.
AND there are SO many food service places -- coffee restaurants and
the like going belly up . . .
> 80 % 1st year, there are many bargains to be had.
examples abound on auction sites. commercial espresso machines that
were $6,000 going for under $1,000 every day
Dave
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 15:51:54
From: Hunter
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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> Howdy Robert!
> Looks like you're setup is a third party marketing site? You advertise &
> sell products that are drop shipped from the manufacturers or distributors?
> Do you handle parts, repairs & warranty work or are those referred to your
> distibutors?
>
>
> Robert (Price elasticity is a given for espresso & coffee products.) Harmon
> --
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
> Remove "Z" to reply via email.
Yep, that is pretty much what I am doing. The machines are all drop
shipped and the coffees and teas are all done by the roasters and
shipped by me. I am hoping I can get this website up and someday open
a brick & mortar shop, but we'll see how it goes...
Anyways, right, the parts and warranty are all through the factory and
distributor and service work is not handled by me. I go through my
distributors to try to find a good local repairman, but I do not do it
myself. The advantage to buying from someone like me is I can get the
same machine to a customer for a lower price, but the obvious downside
is the inability to provide installation and service myself. This is
definitely an important issue to consider in purchasing a machine.
Some local dealers offer discounted service if the machine was bought
through them, while others charge the same price regardless of where it
was bought from...
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 11:03:36
From: daveb
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Funk is so correct:
> One bit of unsolicited advice - Running a coffee shop doesn't have a lot to
> do with making coffee.
> Bob
it is about running a business!
And ALL of the major stuff you need can be bought USED
at a small fraction of the price of new, (25% of the new price -- or
less)
at auction or from a reputable dealer near you.
to buy new is just foolish.
Dave
172
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 18:07:52
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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> And ALL of the major stuff you need can be bought USED
> at a small fraction of the price of new, (25% of the new price -- or
> less)
> at auction or from a reputable dealer near you.
>
> to buy new is just foolish.
There is an old adage in manufacturing. If a business gets rid of old equipment
because it is no longer cost effective, it won't be cost effective for you,
either. The only exception would be equipment that is barely used. Expect to
pay 66-75% of new.
Dan
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 10:30:22
From: Danny
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Dan Bollinger wrote:
> There is an old adage in manufacturing. If a business gets rid of old
> equipment because it is no longer cost effective, it won't be cost
> effective for you, either. The only exception would be equipment that
> is barely used. Expect to pay 66-75% of new.
>
SSSShhhhhhh! Don't tell my old espresso machines, or they may stop
working. 35 years old and perfectly serviceable. Mind you, I
wouldn't recommend used equipment unless the new owner was prepared to
service/maintain it themselves, or had a good service agreement with
someone local if their business depended on it. Certainly, some
machines have done good service and wouldn't be suitable in a new
venture, but many are the result of failed businesses.
As Dave said, there are many lightly used commercial machines from
failed businesses that may require nothing more than a clean/descale.
The local takeaway round the corner from me has a new Rancilio
Epocha and a Mazzer that isn't used from one week to the next, and
will be a bargain when the business fails (as it surely will)....
--
Regards, Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 22:49:48
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 10:30:22 +0000, Danny
<danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
>As Dave said, there are many lightly used commercial machines from
>failed businesses that may require nothing more than a clean/descale.
> The local takeaway round the corner from me has a new Rancilio
>Epocha and a Mazzer that isn't used from one week to the next, and
>will be a bargain when the business fails (as it surely will)....
i was at a deli auction earlier in the week and watched several pieces
of spotlessly maintained equipment go for a wee fraction of their
initial costs. the main impediment for some buyers, it seemed, was
their ability to remove the equipment. some eight foot refrigerated
glass front deli cases went for under $2000 each. they were gorgeous.
the espresso machine was spotless, and went for $550. the grinders
went for $125 each.
--barry "bought some tables"
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 22:03:01
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Finding the keyboard operational
daveb entered:
> Funk is so correct:
>
>> One bit of unsolicited advice - Running a coffee shop doesn't have a
>> lot to do with making coffee.
>> Bob
>
> it is about running a business!
>
> And ALL of the major stuff you need can be bought USED
> at a small fraction of the price of new, (25% of the new price -- or
> less)
> at auction or from a reputable dealer near you.
>
> to buy new is just foolish.
>
> Dave
> 172
In addition, your coffee supplier may give you free equipment in exchange
for a commitment to buy his coffee. You also get his service so down time
isn't a matter of finding someone to fix your equipment.
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:20:15
From: Hunter
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Hi Kevin,
The most important thing you need to figure out is a complete budget
that includes all of your supplies so you can decide what kind of
machine you can afford. If there are some good local coffee shops, go
in and ask them about their machines and what they think of them. As
long as you aren't like right next door, a lot of small shop owners
will not consider you as threatening competition and will be willing to
share their opinion of the machines that they are using. That way you
can get some useful feedback and maybe some hands on experience to see
what you are looking for. You will find that a lot of the reputable
names all have their pros and cons, and often in the end it comes down
to the individual's preference.
I have a new online retail website that I have been working on,
specializing in espresso makers, coffee makers, coffees and teas. I do
not have most of my commercial inventory online yet, but if you are
interested in La Pavoni, ECM, or Wega commercial machines I can get
those to you at very competative pricing. In particular, my La Pavoni
distributor has a few great discount packages where you can get pretty
much all of your supplies for starting a coffee shop shipped on the
same pallet. I can check and see if my ECM and Wega distributors offer
the same kind of packages. I can also probably sweet talk my local
distributors into giving some great deals on the Rancilio commercial
line if you are interested in those.
Let me know if you are interested or if you just want more info.
email: robert@selfespressions.com (different from my personal email
used with my google groups account)
(850) 273-1304
www.selfespressions.com
-keevill- wrote:
> I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking advice
> regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really nice coffee.
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> -keevill-
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 19:59:35
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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"Hunter" <amswak2000@yahoo.com > wrote in
news:1164997215.709937.144720@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I have a new online retail website that I have been working on,
> specializing in espresso makers, coffee makers, coffees and teas. I
> do not have most of my commercial inventory online yet, but if you are
> interested in La Pavoni, ECM, or Wega commercial machines I can get
> those to you at very competative pricing. In particular, my La Pavoni
> distributor has a few great discount packages where you can get pretty
> much all of your supplies for starting a coffee shop shipped on the
> same pallet. I can check and see if my ECM and Wega distributors
> offer the same kind of packages. I can also probably sweet talk my
> local distributors into giving some great deals on the Rancilio
> commercial line if you are interested in those.
>
> Let me know if you are interested or if you just want more info.
Howdy Robert!
Looks like you're setup is a third party marketing site? You advertise &
sell products that are drop shipped from the manufacturers or distributors?
Do you handle parts, repairs & warranty work or are those referred to your
distibutors?
Robert (Price elasticity is a given for espresso & coffee products.) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 09:03:11
From: Hunter
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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>As Dave said, there are many lightly used commercial machines from
>failed businesses that may require nothing more than a clean/descale.
> The local takeaway round the corner from me has a new Rancilio
>Epocha and a Mazzer that isn't used from one week to the next, and
>will be a bargain when the business fails (as it surely will)....
One of my roasters has a "boneyard" full of machines that just need a
cleaning/descaling....he has enough to open probably 2 coffee shops and
a cart or two and is willing to part with them for awesome prices...I
think I am going to be picking up a nice single-group Electra and a
Mazzer grinder for my house soon :)
>but advice from bloggers, lawyers, carpenters, engineers, espresoo
>machine modifiers, and candle stick makers really can't provide the
>knowledge you need.
lol, I agree...I am at least three of those things and I can't provide
knowledge....
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 23:12:12
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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On 2 Dec 2006 09:03:11 -0800, "Hunter" <amswak2000@yahoo.com > wrote:
>One of my roasters has a "boneyard" full of machines that just need a
>cleaning/descaling....he has enough to open probably 2 coffee shops and
>a cart or two
hell, that's just my basement.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 00:20:28
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Finding the keyboard operational
Barry Jarrett entered:
> On 2 Dec 2006 09:03:11 -0800, "Hunter" <amswak2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> One of my roasters has a "boneyard" full of machines that just need a
>> cleaning/descaling....he has enough to open probably 2 coffee shops
>> and a cart or two
>
> hell, that's just my basement.
We have to talk.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 04:57:58
From: daveb
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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the best people here to ask for advice are those who are running
successful ones:
Bernie
Barry
Danny
and others whom I cannot think of right now.
but advice from bloggers, lawyers, carpenters, engineers, espresoo
machine modifiers, and candle stick makers really can't provide the
knowledge you need.
Dave
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 22:11:28
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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"-keevill-" <keevillus@yahoo.com > wrote:
>I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking advice
>regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really nice coffee.
One deciding factor revolves on how dependant you will be on that
machine. This can influence the decision. Look for someone locally who
services commercial espresso machines and see if they sell as well.
Some commercial roasters will set you up with a machine for little or
no cost if you contract with them for coffee. As another contributor
in this thread stated, it's not about the quality of the coffee,
necessarily (see Starbucks). If you can offer your customers
convenience and a location and atmosphere in which they feel
comfortable and welcomed and the coffee isn't terrible, then you have
a good start. It also depends on the method of brewing (drip,
espresso, press pot), the speed at which it needs to be ready
(leisurely breakfast crowd or bustling shopping district), and the
quantities per hour you will be selling (French press vs. Bunn
commercial drip).
Randy "glad it's not me" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 12:59:06
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Finding the keyboard operational
Randy G. entered:
If you can offer your customers
> convenience and a location and atmosphere in which they feel
> comfortable and welcomed and the coffee isn't terrible, then you have
> a good start. It also depends on the method of brewing (drip,
> espresso, press pot), the speed at which it needs to be ready
> (leisurely breakfast crowd or bustling shopping district), and the
> quantities per hour you will be selling (French press vs. Bunn
> commercial drip).
>
> Randy "glad it's not me" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Oh, how I long for a leisurely breakfast crowd. I better get the customers
a cup and rung up in less then 30 seconds or else.
For the record, teo pot Fetco, 2 gallons at a time and a spare air pot so I
can brew one when something gets low. At all times we have a light roast, a
dark roast, a decaf and a regular and decaf flavored. Thats 6 air pots just
for in house, there are 2 more airpots for catering. get the price on 3
liter airpots and you'll get a shock. We didn't budget initially for them.
Bob
P.S.. Would people be interested in a posting on what we have learned in
almost 2 years running a shop?
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 14:24:44
From: Danny
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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The Other Funk wrote:
> P.S.. Would people be interested in a posting on what we have learned in
> almost 2 years running a shop?
I'm sure people would be interested. I post an occasional series
about life in the espresso trailer - google groups "sitting in a
field" will get the stories.
--
Regards, Danny
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 09:17:18
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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Danny <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
>The Other Funk wrote:
>
>> P.S.. Would people be interested in a posting on what we have learned in
>> almost 2 years running a shop?
>
>I'm sure people would be interested. I post an occasional series
>about life in the espresso trailer - google groups "sitting in a
>field" will get the stories.
>
Every last one of them makes for great reading.. highly recommended!
Randy "they are in REAL English!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 15:17:03
From: Randy R
Subject: Re: opeining a new coffee shop advice please
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-keevill- wrote:
> I am opening a small coffee shop , about 25 covers max. I am seeking advice
> regarding purchasing a coffee machine which can produce really nice coffee.
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> -keevill-
My favorite brand for straight coffee is Fetco, this is the same brand
Starbucks uses. One of the things to look for is a machine with big
baskets that allow you to use the SCAA recommended ratio of coffee to
water, which Fetco has. Some Bunn machines come with the big basket
also.
If you have the chance, go to the SCAA conference in the spring and
take some courses. The Brewing fundamentals course talks about this.
(If you are an SCAA member, I think you can download the handouts from
the website.)
All the best shops I have been to use La Marzocco espresso machines,
but this could just be peer pressure or something. Most owners agree
that La Marzocco machines stay more consistent during busy times. Good,
well maintained grinders are equally important.
Randy R
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